2009 Free Agency and the Kansas City Chiefs
From the FanPosts. -Chris
Judging by the Chiefs' season so far, it's time to start looking ahead to the offseason and the 2009 crop of free agents (while underwhelming overall) hosts some interesting options. First, assuming that nobody comes out of the blue and shocks us with stellar performance, the Chiefs will have several glaring holes to fill at quarterback, wide receiver, linebacker and offensive line. Here are a list of options (note that I'm focusing primarily on players who fit the age 28 and under mold of rebuilding).
At quarterback, the best prospects in the free agent class that we have a hope of getting appear to be Matt Cassel, from New England and J.P. Losman from Buffalo...both unrestricted free agents. So far Cassel's demonstrated some promise in filling in for Tom Brady and leading the Patriots to a 2-0 record while completing 70% of his throws, but he also hasn't got much of a track record (either in college or the pros) and his overall yardage totals are pretty unimpressive considering the weapons he's got to throw to (New England seems to be playing conservatively with him). So while Cassel's intriguing, he still bears much watching to see how he pans out over the course of a full season. Losman, on the other hand, is a very interesting prospect. He lost his job to Trent Edwards in Buffalo, but for the last two years he's completed over 60% of his throws, with respectable deep passing numbers while maintaining an unimpressive, but not horrible, TD/INT ratio of 23/20. Best of all, he's not likely to get franchise tagged for Buffalo because their top WR, Lee Evans, is also an unrestricted free agent this offseason so signing him would come without having to give up compensation. So, should the Chiefs be willing to go shopping, there is at least one respectable option at QB available to them this offseason. Most of the others who will hit the open market (Grossman, Boller, Garcia, Warner) we probably don't want because of either age, injury or performance issues.
Wide receiver has a few interesting options, but none as available as Losman. Roy Williams from Detroit hits unrestricted free agency this year and would be an excellent fit for us but is a prime candidate to get franchise tagged, despite his apparent frustration with being relegated to role player in Detroit's passing attack. So unless we're willing to work out a trade, we're unlikely to sign him. Lee Evans, from Buffalo is also a free agent, but Buffalo will likely franchise him if they can't get him signed before the end of the season as he's the primary receiving threat in their offense. There are a few second tier guys who might hold some interest for us...in particular, Shaun McDonald from Detroit (UFA), Jabar Gaffney from New England (UFA), and Devery Henderson from New Orleans (UFA). T.J Houshmanzadeh and Bobby Engram both become unrestricted free agents and will probably hit the open market but neither are attractive because of age and injury histories.
Linebacker is where it gets dodgy. Best looking option is Karlos Dansby out of Arizona, who seems unlikely to sign a long-term deal with the Cardinals before the offseason, but who's probably looking at a franchise tag. Bart Scott from Baltimore is intriguing but getting a little long in the tooth (age 29). Angelo Crowell from Buffalo (UFA) is young (26) and talented, but he's been placed on injured reserve this season with a knee injury drama that gets more and more bizarre the more it comes out (went in for a reported "scope" three days before the season against the team's wishes, but now he's looking for second opinions on it). Johnathan Vilma (UFA) fits the mold (young and talented) but needs to show this season that his knee problems are behind him before the Chiefs should look to grab him. Nobody else on the list really stands out, because of either age, injury, talent, or production problems.
Offensive line appears to be a wasteland for free agent talent. Some big names (Runyan, Tauscher, Birk, Colombo) but most of them are on the wrong side of 30 and we'd be overpaying. Only one that fits what we want is Colombo (age 29) and I'm betting he doesn't go anywhere this offseason (Jones isn't going to be breaking up a line that does a good job of protecting his franchise QB). So it looks like if we're adding talent to the offensive line we'll be doing it through the draft or we'll be hoping for that elusive diamond in the rough via waivers.
My personal preferences for this offseason would be Losman and Roy Williams (assuming we don't pay the franchise tag price) and one of the second-tier receivers (McDonald seems the most promising), while avoiding any of the linebackers but Dansby or Vilma (who's unlikely to leave New Orleans if he's healthy and they offer him a good contract). Personally, though, unless things change at the GM and head coach positions I have a tough time seeing either Losman or Williams (or anyone else with talent) wanting to come play for an offense run by Herm Edwards unless we see some dramatic improvement over the next 14 games.
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of Arrowhead Pride's writers or editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of Arrowhead Pride writers or editors.
Comments
Here is what will really happen:
We won’t sign a QB, I see us drafting Harper or Sanchez. We will sign a FA WR, but it won’t be Roy Williams. My guess would be Lee Evans(extremely overrated) or Shaun McDonald(because thats what we do). I know for a fact that if Vilma is available we will sign him on the first day of free agency(for obvious reasons). The offensive line will be addressed in the draft, 2009 is almost as loaded as the 2008 class.
Next years Chiefs-
QB-Mark Sanchez
RB-LJ
FB-Mike Cox
WR-Lee Evans
WR-Dwayne Bowe
TE-Brad Cottam(Tony G is traded on draft day to the Eagles)
OT-Albert
OG-Waters
C-Niswanger
OG-Herman Johnson drafted out of LSU
OT-Alex Boone drafted out of Ohio St.
DE-Hali
DT-Dorsey
DT-Tyler
DE-McBride
LB-DJ
LB-Darry Beckwith drafted out of LSU
LB-Donnie Edwards
CB-Flowers
CB-Carr
S-Pollard
S-Page
Alot of those draft picks are very wishful thinking!!
go to www.WideWorldofRoto.com for all your fantasy news!
by JasonM on
Sep 16, 2008 11:54 AM CDT
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Rookie QBs
I don’t think that you can actually put a rookie QB out there next season with the team in the shape it’s in. Most of them aren’t ready their first year in the league anyway (especially guys from USC…Carson Palmer’s been the most obviously talented and he still took three years to hit his stride). Losman represents the best option as either a bridge until a drafted QB is ready or as a long-term starter if the drafted QB doesn’t work out. I’ll admit, I wasn’t big on Losman before, but after looking over what he’s done I’ve got to say that I think he’d be a good addition for us and the price is certainly right (only what we’re paying in contract to him…he likely won’t be franchised).
Lee Evans we’re not going to get. Buffalo relies on him too much and if they can’t sign him to a contract I don’t think there’s even a question that he’s getting franchise tagged. I doubt we’ll get Williams either, unless he forces a trade somewhere. But with Millen in charge in Detroit, who really knows what will happen? Millen’s probably stupid enough to cut the guy.
Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.
by UCrawford on
Sep 16, 2008 12:15 PM CDT
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Draft Prospects
I’ve got no problem with the team drafting Sanchez either…he looks like a solid prospect. But of course we have no idea where any of these guys are going to fall in the draft. Way too early.
Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.
by UCrawford on
Sep 16, 2008 12:16 PM CDT
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I'm not at all for Losman
I really don’t want him as a “bridge” because whats the point? If we draft a qb and get a couple more OL prospects then we could have them grow together. I think we could get Sanchez in the late 1st early 2nd if everything played out today. I know it is way to early to tell though.
As far as Lee Evans goes, I don’t want him. I could just see the Chiefs over spending on him. I really just want to build our OL and draft a MLB. A) Laurinaitis B) Maulaga C) Beckwith
go to www.WideWorldofRoto.com for all your fantasy news!
by JasonM on
Sep 16, 2008 12:24 PM CDT
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Because
Even next year, it won’t just be the QB we’re trying to develop, it’ll be everyone else on the offense as well…and it looks like the young receivers won’t get much help on that this season considering how bad the QB situation is.
We simply can’t go into next season with Huard as our starting QB. But throwing another young guy with minimal experience out there to flounder like Thigpen or Croyle isn’t the answer either. The answer is to have someone who can capably run the offense and complete passes (and Losman can do that) for several years, with an eye towards the coaching staff constantly looking for and training up Losman’s replacement. Rookie QBs are a crapshoot anyway, and if you throw a rookie QB into the mix hoping he’ll sink or swim then you’ll usually see him sink and you’ll be starting over in the next draft while the rest of the offense wastes away. With Losman, Sanchez (or whoever we draft) will have time to develop and adjust to the NFL and we won’t be under pressure to throw him under the bus because the guy ahead of him is terrible…we’ll be able to start him when he’s ready.
This is how real football teams do it. Romo played for years behind Drew Bledsoe. Danny White played behind Roger Staubach. Joe Montana played behind Steve DeBerg. Just because a QB might be a Hall of Fame talent is no reason to think he’s going to be able to play his first season out.
Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.
by UCrawford on
Sep 16, 2008 12:42 PM CDT
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What if...
we drafted both Phil Loadholt and Herman Johnson. The right side of our line would be averaging 6’8" 350!!! BALLS!!
by Dono on
Sep 16, 2008 12:49 PM CDT
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What If...
…we drafted Kimbo Slice and Ken Shamrock? Then nobody would even attempt to mess with our line. :)
Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.
by UCrawford on
Sep 16, 2008 12:57 PM CDT
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Unfortunately for Kimbo
the NFL isn’t an underground street fighting ring, and Shamrock doesn’t really fit in with the “youth movement.”
Maybe the Chiefs need to actually look into fixing things, rather than bandaiding them, or trying to just get by from season to season. We have so much cap room, why couldn’t some things have been addressed? There was so much talk about so many free agents, and how many of them were even brought in to work out?
have you seen my baseball?
by IISaiNtII on
Sep 16, 2008 1:15 PM CDT
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Ah, But If It Were
I’d pay to watch their first starts. :)
Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.
by UCrawford on
Sep 16, 2008 2:11 PM CDT
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You're actually going to watch those 2 scrubs?
I just lost alot of respect for you UC.
go to www.WideWorldofRoto.com for all your fantasy news!
by JasonM on
Sep 16, 2008 2:52 PM CDT
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Dude
You know that there’s no chance the Chiefs would ever sign them, right? I just tossed out the first two MMA names I could think of off the top of my head :) My third choice was going to be Chuck Norris.
Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.
by UCrawford on
Sep 16, 2008 3:03 PM CDT
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NO Shit?
I know this. I’m a huge MMA fan and they are fighting on CBS Oct 4. They both suck extremely bad.
go to www.WideWorldofRoto.com for all your fantasy news!
by JasonM on
Sep 16, 2008 3:05 PM CDT
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MMA
It falls into the category of “Something I Watch When I’m Bored And Flipping Channels And Something More Interesting Isn’t On”. It’s a good sport and I respect it, but I honestly don’t care enough about it to learn the names of anyone who isn’t mentioned frequently in the press. :)
Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.
by UCrawford on
Sep 16, 2008 3:22 PM CDT
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I love it
I’ve been training for over 2 years now.
go to www.WideWorldofRoto.com for all your fantasy news!
by JasonM on
Sep 16, 2008 3:23 PM CDT
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It's A Good Sport
I can respect anyone who does contact sports. I loved playing rugby, myself. And just so you know, I wasn’t trying to bag on MMA…it’s just not something that’s really on my radar.
Best of luck to you on training for it. I’ve got a buddy from the Army who’s into Muy Thai and Gracie Ju-Jitsu and he’s addicted to it so I can understand the attraction.
Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.
by UCrawford on
Sep 16, 2008 3:26 PM CDT
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I don't want to fight in a show.
It’s just a fun way to get in shape, and if someone gets lippy I can choke them out, if it comes to that.
go to www.WideWorldofRoto.com for all your fantasy news!
by JasonM on
Sep 16, 2008 3:30 PM CDT
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It's More Interesting Than Endlessly Pumping Weights
Always fun to have a high-energy sport that has variety to it. I felt the same about rugby. Even if I was in good shape to start the season, I’d generally drop about 15 pounds by the end (and few inches off the waist). Made up for the constant black eyes and the broken noses. :)
Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.
by UCrawford on
Sep 16, 2008 3:39 PM CDT
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i trained at a gracie school for a while before i moved
even met Royce once. very cool stuff, very very fun
btw, Joe Lauzon will pick up the win tonight. or at least i hope so, he’s my favorite fighter.
and the iceman should retire
and lyoto machida is the future
Naming my son Brodie Damon
by troy145 on
Sep 17, 2008 3:56 AM CDT
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You guys have overlooked at very startling name in that scenario
Trade Tony Gonzalez? No way.
by Lanier63 on
Sep 16, 2008 1:13 PM CDT
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I would be fine
with whatever makes that guy happy. He has given the Chiefs nothing but his all for the last decade. It would suck to see him leave, but if it would get him a ring, he deserves it. I would just want him to retire a Chief.
have you seen my baseball?
by IISaiNtII on
Sep 16, 2008 1:17 PM CDT
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That's why I said it.
I want Tony to win a ring. Whether its with us or someone else. He will go into the Hall as a Chief. He net us another 1st or 2nd round pick.
go to www.WideWorldofRoto.com for all your fantasy news!
by JasonM on
Sep 16, 2008 3:00 PM CDT
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I agree
Tony’s given us the best years of his NFL career. If he wants to stay then great, but after this year if he wants to go to a playoff team then I wish him well. He has always given us his best, even surrounded by other players who weren’t giving theirs, and thats hard.
by bamakcfan on
Sep 16, 2008 3:09 PM CDT
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I'm just selfish, but I agree about the ring
I hope if he doesn’t leave and never plays in the Big Game that it prohibits him from the HOF like another former Chief we are all too familiar with.
by Lanier63 on
Sep 16, 2008 3:27 PM CDT
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FA pool a bit empty
Knowing the chiefs and we’ll sign one of those FA linebackers mentioned above, most likely the oldest coming off an injury. We will also sign another Devard Darling, but that’s about it. Losman, i don’t see as much of an upgrade from Brodie, so why bother, and Cassel will stay with the Pats. I say a small prayer every night that we don’t pick up Grossman, I would have to consider my true attachment to the Chiefs if we did that. I’d be happy with Gaffney at WR though. And our o-line will come from the draft. I do have to say I was impressed with Sanchez, but you never know how the cookie crumbles, and the draft is too far off to say where he and the O-lineman we need are going to go. I definately wish we would do one thing, GET A STINKIN QB. My vote is for Brady Quinn. He’s sat for a bit and has had some time to adjust. Just don’t know what it would take to get him away from the Browns. I’m not saying let’s get him and put him behind this o-line tomarrow, but get him let him get used to our system for the rest of the year, draft some o-line help and put him in next year. I don’t see a QB in the draft that has NFL talent to start even after his second or third year.
by bamakcfan on
Sep 16, 2008 1:20 PM CDT
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Losman Has Clearly Outperformed Croyle
I’m sorry, but if you compare their performance, it’s not even close. Losman has been better than Croyle in every single passing category, and best of all he can actually stay healthy…he’s a definite upgrade over Croyle.
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/L/LosmJ.00.htm
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/C/CroyBr00.htm
In fact, most of the QBs that will be available in free agency next year represent an upgrade over Brodie Croyle (Boller, Warner, Garcia). Grossman doesn’t, of course, so I’d hope we’d avoid him.
Cassel will stay with the Pats? Why? Because he wants to sit on the bench behind Tom Brady (who’s returning next year)? That makes no sense if a decent contract and a starting job are offered to him. As for Brady Quinn…this article is about free agents in 2009 and Brady Quinn isn’t a free agent. So far as we know the Browns aren’t open to trading him right now either, and if they are it will likely take two high draft picks to get him. This is a post about what is available to us in free agency this year…most of which won’t require mortgaging our future to acquire. Losman will like be an unrestricted free agent, he’s got more experience than Brady Quinn (who has yet to start a game), he’s actually been a better passer than Derek Anderson (who is still keeping Quinn on the bench) and he won’t cost us a draft pick to sign so long as the Bills don’t franchise him. Losman represents the better value and the better chance of a payoff than Quinn.
Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.
by UCrawford on
Sep 16, 2008 2:00 PM CDT
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Actually Compare their stats through the first 7 starts
And, Brodie actually has a better QB rating. I’m not saying that I’m supporting Brodie, but I’m just tired of getting other team’s leftover QBs. This is in no way a shot to your post, but Boller is a bust, Warner would be a definate upgrade but how many years does he have left(and if he keeps up what he’s doing right now Arizon might hold on to him) and I just don’t like Garcia( health, age, and 4 teams have/are about to let him go). Cassell, if he does well, which I’m not sure of; there just isn’t that QB swagger there, he has always been a backup, I just think he’s a younger Damon Huard, a good backup when called upon. I do have to apologize for the reference to getting Quinn, I know this is a FA post, but there are many references to the draft above so can’t call me out for adding my other two cents.
by bamakcfan on
Sep 16, 2008 2:16 PM CDT
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I Don't Care About Losman's First Seven Starts
I care about Losman’s last 23 starts where he makes any comparison to Croyle laughable. When Losman was 25 (like Croyle is this season) he demonstrated that he’s capable of being an NFL starter. When Croyle is able to do that, then I’ll entertain the idea that Croyle might be comparable to Losman. Of course, since Croyle can’t stay healthy for more than a few games at a time, I don’t suspect that such a moment will be coming…especially since he looked terrible before he got hurt.
This is in no way a shot to your post, but Boller is a bust
As a starter I agree he’s a bust. As a backup, he’s not a bad signing for someone. His performance has actually improved every year he’s been in the league. I definitely would not want the Chiefs to bring him in as a starter (but I wouldn’t mind if they brought him in as a backup behind someone who could be a good starter). This is all assuming he can recover from shoulder surgery, of course.
Warner would be a definate upgrade but how many years does he have left
Less than one if he plays behind one of Herm’s lines. He’d be a terrible fit for us.
I just don’t like Garcia
No argument here…I’m not a fan.
Cassell, if he does well, which I’m not sure of; there just isn’t that QB swagger there, he has always been a backup, I just think he’s a younger Damon Huard, a good backup when called upon.
I probably came off as a little too high on him in the post…the jury is still very much out on him until he’s played at least half the season. Right now he plays like a caretaker, and if he doesn’t show some improvement I won’t have much enthusiasm for him. You may be right about the Huard comparison.
I do have to apologize for the reference to getting Quinn, I know this is a FA post, but there are many references to the draft above so can’t call me out for adding my other two cents.
I understand where you’re coming from with it, but at this point we have no clue if he’s even available so it’s a pointless discussion. Losman will be, we wouldn’t have to give up 1st round draft picks for him and right now he’s actually demonstrated more to indicate he’d be a good NFL QB than Quinn has. Quinn, in fact, has looked pretty underwhelming in the limited action he’s gotten. That’s not to say that Quinn won’t be good of course, because who knows, but considering the disparity in price to acquire them (high draft picks for Quinn, no draft picks for Losman) Losman is the smarter gamble. While I don’t hate Trent Edwards, I honestly think that Dick Jauron made a big mistake in benching Losman for Edwards.
Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.
by UCrawford on
Sep 16, 2008 2:31 PM CDT
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I do have to agree
Losman is the best available FA QB for our situation I agree, but I just don’t see him as “The Answer”. And he may very well be better than Brodie, but give Brodie a chance and he could probably guide our team to 10-21 like Losman has for the Bills. Now, don’t get me wrong I’m not a fan of Brodie Croyle, but we’re kinda stuck with him this year so I’m trying to make the best of it. As you mentioned that’s the killer with Quinn, we will undoubtedly come from a point of despiration to get him and have ot pay for it. But I will say if Brodie tanks, we don’t go after a trade, and there are still no viable QBs in the draft that are not over 3 years from being a Quality NFL QB, then I’ll jump on the Losman bus with you. :)
by bamakcfan on
Sep 16, 2008 2:50 PM CDT
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Losman
I don’t know if he’s the answer either…but he represents the best option next offseason (and currently I include Brady Quinn in that because of the cost of trading for him) until the answer does come along.
As for Losman’s record with the Bills, until they got Marshawn Lynch in there and built the o-line and defense that was a horrible, talentless team so I think it’s inaccurate to place the blame on Losman. He just had Evans in the passing game, and McGahee (who was terrible in Buffalo in ‘06 and ’05) as his back and that defense was a sieve. QB can’t do everything, and I’d argue that they lost in spite of Losman, not because of him.
For drafted QBs, looking at the 2009 class, I think you’d have to say that none of them are good bets to be solid their rookie years, so I think you have to go for something to fill at least a 3 year gap. Losman does that without forcing us to give up draft picks and he can actually complete passes.
Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.
by UCrawford on
Sep 16, 2008 3:11 PM CDT
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I actually posted on this over at Dawgs by Nature, the Browns site.
They said it would take a 1st rounder and a young member of our secondary in exchange for Brady Quinn and a 5th or 6th round pick. They are all just waiting for Derek Anderson to fail, so he might be more attainable than Quinn.
go to www.WideWorldofRoto.com for all your fantasy news!
by JasonM on
Sep 16, 2008 2:58 PM CDT
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I would rather have Losman than Anderson
by bamakcfan on
Sep 16, 2008 3:02 PM CDT
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I vote neither.
I really want a 1st round QB. Play Huard or Croyle until stud qb is ready to take over.
go to www.WideWorldofRoto.com for all your fantasy news!
by JasonM on
Sep 16, 2008 3:03 PM CDT
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There's No Clear-Cut First Round QB
In fact the 2009 draft class looks to have a lot of projects in it. And I don’t think Huard or Croyle are options we can, or should, count on for next season. Huard’s the best QB this year, but he’s old and he is getting close to the end. Croyle’s too fragile to be relied on at all.
Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.
by UCrawford on
Sep 16, 2008 3:13 PM CDT
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I didn't know the Browns fans got to decide what the trade would be
Why can’t we do that?
by Lanier63 on
Sep 16, 2008 3:29 PM CDT
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Something that made me shutter...On your Matt Cassell subject UC
Does anyone know who drafted before the patriots when they chose Matt Cassell? Not saying he is going to be a Pro-bowler or that he is a complete bust…… Yes Our beloved Chiefs and we took a quarterback too James Killian… 2 wins is a bit better than 0-7 in starts. Not saying Matt would be starting but it is interesting that we might not be having this conversation at all.
by KC FAN IN CA on
Sep 16, 2008 1:28 PM CDT
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I'm Not Sold On Cassel Yet
He’s only played two games, so right now I’m very aware that he could be a flash in the pan. That’s why I’d prefer we acquire Losman this offseason unless Cassel starts playing really well (and even then I’d still probably prefer Losman).
Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.
by UCrawford on
Sep 16, 2008 2:01 PM CDT
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agreed
I haven’t quite given up on Croyle but midway through the season was my breaking point and he will be lucky to have three or four starts. He managed the first half of the patriots game well and thats it. A bad block put him out but unless he comes back and wins atleast half of those starts JP might be a good option to tutor whomever we draft in 2009
by KC FAN IN CA on
Sep 16, 2008 5:34 PM CDT
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Garcia?
I agree with UCrawford’s “Because” posting. Although we should be looking ahead to 09 based on a so far dismal season, the front office and coaching staff can’t abandon this season so early on. We need to bring in an experienced QB to mentor our young guys.
Gruden is dissatisfied with Jeff Garcia in Tampa so why not go after him with a 1-2 year contract and bring him to win a few games this season but more importantly act as a mentor to Croyle/Thigpen and/or a rookie QB that we’ll most assuredly draft next year? Garcia may not be the best QB out there but he’s tenacious and gutsy, has worked with some tremendous coaches (Reid, Gruden) and knows how to win. I think any QB on our roster could learn a few things from him and it would be a way to keep our few stars (Tony, LJ, Bowe) happy in the near term.
Added bonus: we might win a game or two. what a nice surprise for dedicated fans.
by Gridiron Goddess on
Sep 16, 2008 2:00 PM CDT
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Garcia Is Not The Best Option
If we can’t get Losman, I’d be fine with grabbing Garcia in free agency next year for a short term deal as long as he’s healthy. Problem is, he doesn’t look healthy. Actually, he looked pretty awful in his one game this season, so I’m not entirely sure his sitting on the bench is solely due to a personality conflict with Gruden. Also, Garcia is a decade older than Losman, so there is pretty much no chance that Garcia will be an answer for us three or four years from now if we can’t draft and develop a young QB. There’s a pretty good chance that Losman will. That’s why he should be the top priority…he’s young enough to be a long-term starter for this team.
As for Garcia being a leader, I’m not so sure about that…he actually got a reputation as being a bit of an asshole and a prima donna with his teammates. Roy Williams (a pretty good receiver who hasn’t been known as a problem child) hated him in Detroit…said that his mentality was that nothing was ever his fault and he liked to rip his receivers. So I don’t think leadership’s something we can reasonably expect him to bring to the table, only the hope that he’ll be better than Huard, Croyle or whoever survives this season. And since he’ll be pushing 40, I’d definitely rather we went after Losman.
Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.
by UCrawford on
Sep 16, 2008 2:09 PM CDT
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I’d take Losman or or Cassel next year, but I really think they should move to bring in someone this year as a stop gap measure. At this point, just about anyone will suffice and hopefully stop the boasting and chest-thumping coming out of Denver!
by Gridiron Goddess on
Sep 16, 2008 2:52 PM CDT
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We have one, it's Huard.
He can get us thru this season, and play some games next season until the rookie qb is ready to go. Losman is a joke just like Brodie. UC you lost me at the paying to watch Kimbo Shamrock.
go to www.WideWorldofRoto.com for all your fantasy news!
by JasonM on
Sep 16, 2008 2:55 PM CDT
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Rookie QBs
Most rookie QBs are not able to step in and play capably in their first year, even with a couple of games on the sidelines, so it’s unrealistic to expect one to do so next year. The Chiefs should proceed as if the QB will take two years on the bench to develop (and can start in his third year). If he’s ready before that, great…bonus, but the team should plan around somebody else playing QB for that three year development time. Plenty of good, and even great, QBs sat out their first year or two in the league…and planning for that to happen is what good football teams do.
Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.
by UCrawford on
Sep 16, 2008 3:18 PM CDT
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Huard
And I wouldn’t count on Huard as a starter past this season. He’s our best option right now, but I don’t see him being that for very long…he’s definitely a limited player and that doesn’t look to improve next year. In fact, the odds are that he’ll be worse.
Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.
by UCrawford on
Sep 16, 2008 3:20 PM CDT
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This year we have seen rookies start and look ok.
Flacco and Ryan haven’t been horrible and they are learning every week. We should just probably agree to disagree because this is going nowhere. I want a rookie first round qb(Sanchez and Harper are 2 I think will go in the 1st) and you want Losman. Either way we won’t win next year without an improvement at OL.
go to www.WideWorldofRoto.com for all your fantasy news!
by JasonM on
Sep 16, 2008 3:28 PM CDT
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Flacco and Ryan
Ryan looked so-so versus a rotten Detroit defense, then played horribly against Tampa. Currently he’s one of the worst passers in the NFL.
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/R/RyanMa00.htm
Joe Flacco wasn’t much better. He threw for 129 yards against a Cincinnati defense that was almost non-existent and didn’t throw for a single TD.
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/F/FlacJo00.htm
So I wouldn’t say that either of them are okay. They both play like rookies who aren’t ready yet for the NFL.
Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.
by UCrawford on
Sep 16, 2008 3:33 PM CDT
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And
I’m fine with selecting a rookie QB in the draft next year. I just don’t want the Chiefs to throw him into a game until he’s able to perform somewhat decently. It’s not just the QB position the Chiefs need to develop…it’s all the positions that need a QB who can throw the ball as well. If you throw in a rookie who can’t complete passes the rest of the team’s development will continue to stagnate until the QB develops…assuming he ever does. Which means the Chiefs will probably never improve.
Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.
by UCrawford on
Sep 16, 2008 3:36 PM CDT
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The center could still flourish however...lol
by Lanier63 on
Sep 16, 2008 3:40 PM CDT
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I think that both teams are even, maybe a little better than the
Chiefs offensively. I seriously doubt that Losman, Huard , Croyle or whoever else has been mentioned would flourish in Baltimore, Atlanta, or KC. If you throw Ryan into the New Orleans or Indy offense who would play like a 1st round pick.
go to www.WideWorldofRoto.com for all your fantasy news!
by JasonM on
Sep 16, 2008 4:21 PM CDT
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Doubtful
Peyton Manning is simply a unique talent (son of a pro QB as well), and he was a far superior college QB to Matt Ryan. Matt Ryan may be good or he may not, but I suspect we’ll need a couple of seasons to figure that out and for most of this season he won’t be very good. That’s not a knock on Ryan’s ability so much as respect for how good Peyton Manning is.
Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.
by UCrawford on
Sep 16, 2008 4:34 PM CDT
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Peyton
stunk it up his first year in the league, and didn’t win many games his 4th year either. Those were obviously his two worst seasons as a QB. 2004 was his best year to date, excluding winning a superbowl of course.
Unique talent? Maybe. But Carson Palmer put up better numbers in his first season starting. But it is unfair to Peyton not to note that Palmer started a year after he was drafting, after being mentored by Jon Kitna (voted the NFL’s comback player of the year in 03; Palmers rookie season).
have you seen my baseball?
by IISaiNtII on
Sep 16, 2008 4:59 PM CDT
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Both #1 overall picks
And any stats that include Peyton I almost disregard b/c he’ll go down as possibly the greatest QB ever – definitely the exception.
by primetime 07 on
Sep 16, 2008 5:14 PM CDT
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Ummm
Peyton threw for over 3,700 yards and 26 TDs and completed over 56% of his passes. His TD/INT ratio was almost 1/1. For a rookie, that’s outstanding. By season two, he was Peyton.
Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.
by UCrawford on
Sep 16, 2008 5:22 PM CDT
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Carson Palmer
Actually didn’t put up better numbers than Peyton his rookie season because he didn’t play his rookie season. He played his second year in the league, and his numbers weren’t better than Peyton’s numbers in his second year in the league. That’s the proper comparison.
Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.
by UCrawford on
Sep 16, 2008 5:25 PM CDT
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I never said Palmers rookie season now did I?
:)
I said his first season starting, which I clearly noted as well saying he sat his first season.
I was also going off of pure passer rating as the barometer for comparison, since it is calculated using almost all the stats.
have you seen my baseball?
by IISaiNtII on
Sep 16, 2008 5:29 PM CDT
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Passer Rating Is Limited
It’s kind of a mishmash of stats and can often be misleading. Don’t get me wrong, it’s not useless, but it’s also important to look at the raw numbers and conditions that led to it because it doesn’t tell the whole story at all and can be easily skewed.
Peyton Manning was simply a better QB than Palmer. Peyton was able to play his rookie year and put up respectable numbers. Palmer wasn’t…but he was still in the league so we can’t pretend that his rookie year didn’t happen and give him credit for being as good as Peyton (because he wasn’t).
That’s not to take away from Palmer either…he’s been a fine QB. Except for this season, of course, when I’ve got him on my fucking fantasy team in the league where I pay money. This year is obviously the one where he’s going to suck. Stupid Bengals.
Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.
by UCrawford on
Sep 16, 2008 5:39 PM CDT
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Lol
That always happens to me. Last year I had Tomlinson and Brees. They killed my first half of the season, and i missed the playoffs waiting for them to produce…
Just be glad you don’t have Tommy boy!
have you seen my baseball?
by IISaiNtII on
Sep 16, 2008 5:48 PM CDT
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My Fantasy Disaster
Just be glad you don’t have Tommy boy!
No, luckily I was playing the team that had him in week 1. The real anchor around my neck, though, is Steven Jackson. We were allowed two keepers last season and I had Jackson, LT and Romo to choose from. I traded LT for Marshawn Lynch, then opted for Jackson over Romo. Huge mistake, because Jackson’s season is looking to get worse because even Al Saunders can’t fix that St. Louis offense.
Romo’s team, meanwhile, stomped me yesterday. Which was gut-wrenching for me because I actually like Romo and have had him on my team since he got the starting job with the Cowboys, but I thought Jackson was going to be an uber back with the new offense and Carson Palmer (who I got in the fourth round) would fill in adequately. Now I’m doing a week by week matchup with Carson Palmer/Jon Kitna/J.T. O’Sullivan unless I can rook someone out of a QB (which I will attempt tonight).
I should have drafted Cutler over Palmer. F***ing Palmer.
Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.
by UCrawford on
Sep 16, 2008 6:50 PM CDT
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Ouch.
Yeah, that’s a gamble I probably would have taken too. Romo just seems like the luckiest SOB alive when it comes to his position. You’ll always have fumbles when you keep him, but you’ll also always have huge downfield passes in most (if not all) games.
I know your pain though. We started our league as a keeper last year, and I had to give up my roster this season due to work. Not that I know who I would have even kept… Maybe Brees, probably would have traded Tomlinson.
have you seen my baseball?
by IISaiNtII on
Sep 16, 2008 9:04 PM CDT
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I Traded Tomlinson
Got Lynch for him…frankly I think I got a steal because LT’s been getting dinged up in a Shaun Alexander kind of way ever since last season. Nothing huge (except for the knee, which apparently healed) but just a bunch of that nagging stuff with the legs which is usually a sign that a running back’s going to have problems.
Honestly, though, I knew Romo would be good…and I’ll admit that I’m a Romo fan in about the same way I was a Barry Sanders fan. Not so much now that Romo’s not playing on my fantasy team, of course. If I don’t win the league this year, I will point to my decision to keep Jackson over Romo as the fatal error.
Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.
by UCrawford on
Sep 16, 2008 9:07 PM CDT
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lmfao
my good friend did the same thing and sat Eli thinking Carson would do better (which was not a bad thought)
by KC FAN IN CA on
Sep 16, 2008 6:49 PM CDT
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And just to put them side by side
Year Team G Att Comp Pct Att/G Yds Avg Yds/G TD TD% Int Int% Lng 20+ 40+ Sck SckY Rate
1998 Indianapolis Colts 16 575 326 56.7 35.9 3,739 6.5 233.7 26 4.5 28 4.9 78T 42 8 22 109 71.2
2004 Cincinnati Bengals 13 432 263 60.9 33.2 2,897 6.7 222.8 18 4.2 18 4.2 76T 34 8 25 178 77.3
Palmers td/int ratio was 1:1 his first starting season, but he threw for around 1,000 less yards, and made over 100 less attempts. His completion percentage was also higher than Mannings.
Both are good QB’s, and we have seen what happens to Peyton when the defense comes at his face, he loses it. San Diego is in his head everytime they play each other.
have you seen my baseball?
by IISaiNtII on
Sep 16, 2008 5:35 PM CDT
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Apples To Oranges
You need to count how well a QB has progressed by their performance in each year of experience, not Peyton’s rookie year to Palmer’s second year or the like. Palmer didn’t get as much playing time his rookie year, but he was still practicing and still getting used to the NFL so he didn’t have to come in cold like Manning did.
Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.
by UCrawford on
Sep 16, 2008 5:41 PM CDT
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Watching has it's advantages
and I’m not trying to detract from Mannings ability. I just feel like he is given entirely more credit than he deserves.
And Palmer only started 13 games his second season, not 16. Manning is in a great situation, when many QB’s could flourish. It’s not simply because of him the Colts are winning, just as we’re seeing it isn’t simply because of Tom Brady that the Patriots were winning. One person doesn’t necessarily always win a game for you. They can change the course of the game, but it takes a team to get the ‘W.’ I really think alot of people forget that when talking about Manning.
have you seen my baseball?
by IISaiNtII on
Sep 16, 2008 5:56 PM CDT
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I would love
If we can draft another top day offensive lineman next year and pick up one younger starter in FA. We would be able to establish the run and protect our QB, regardless of who is playing QB they will be able to perform their jobs better.
by Shawn on
Sep 16, 2008 5:03 PM CDT
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Wow, that is impressive and depressing
I am amazed at the detail and thought, sorry you guys are already looking at next year, any chance they can Carl Peterson?
"How do the berries taste Ralph?" Bart Simpson
"They taste like burning." Ralph Wigam
Broncoman
by Broncoman on
Sep 16, 2008 6:40 PM CDT
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I doubt it
He’s contracted until the end of ‘09 if I’m not mistaken. And it’s only two games into the season. I expect there to be alot of ups and downs, but I don’t think anyone expected to witness a complete meltdown like we did at home.
If nothing changes between now and the end of the season… I’d give him a 50/50 shot. He’s had alot of success here, and I don’t doubt that if he wanted a job elsewhere, he could get it. Problem is, I don’t know who would take his spot. I would say Denny Thum, but I’m biased.
have you seen my baseball?
by IISaiNtII on
Sep 16, 2008 9:06 PM CDT
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Talk about how bad Damion McIntosh is.
He looked, and I hate cliches like this, like a fat slob chasing guys around.
It was terrible. He’s 31 years old.
by AngryJesus on
Sep 16, 2008 8:28 PM CDT
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I don’t know if I trust the organization to draft a decent QB next year. We don’t have a stellar track record. I’ll certainly keep my fingers crossed for Huard. The coaching staff needs to get their act together with some better game plans.
I just bet a colleague (and Raiders fan) on how many wins the Chiefs would get this season. Sadly, I picked 3 and I still feel that’s optimistic. I’ll still wear the jersey with pride on Sundays though!
by Gridiron Goddess on
Sep 16, 2008 8:33 PM CDT
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I Think We'll Have A Much Better Shot At Drafting A QB
If we use a different GM to do it.
It’s not “the Chiefs” who have a problem drafting a good QB prospect…it’s Carl Peterson.
Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.
by UCrawford on
Sep 16, 2008 8:54 PM CDT
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3 might be optimistic
I don’t know if I trust the organization to draft a decent QB next year.
The past 19+ years have supplanted my belief that they most certainly can not.
by primetime 07 on
Sep 16, 2008 8:50 PM CDT
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Lets be honest about that for a minute
I am not so sure the Chiefs have ever “drafted” a long winning Quarterback to the organization in its history.
by Lanier63 on
Sep 16, 2008 9:42 PM CDT
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Agree!
past record speaks for itself. Shame on you, Carl.
by Gridiron Goddess on
Sep 16, 2008 9:09 PM CDT
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Bills
Losman sucks take him we dont need him! Edwards is way better and if you think that the Bills will lose Lee Evans then you are a fricking retard!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
by BillsandSaints on
Sep 16, 2008 10:14 PM CDT
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Actually
If you’d read what I wrote, you’d see that I said the Bills wouldn’t lose Evans because he’s likely to get franchised if they don’t re-sign him.
Learn to pay attention before you voice an opinion…then you won’t make Bills fans look like idiots by association.
Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.
by UCrawford on
Sep 16, 2008 10:38 PM CDT
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Minor correction from a Ravens fan...
Bart Scott is 28, and he just turned 28 in August. He’ll be 29 at the start of next season.
by math_geek on
Sep 16, 2008 10:21 PM CDT
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Understood
That was intentional. I was actually referring to the age he’d be for the 2009 season if we were to sign him.
Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.
by UCrawford on
Sep 16, 2008 10:39 PM CDT
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Great post UC
I agree. Losman has got to be the guy. No offense to Huard and Thigpen but we are just wasting valuable game reps on two guys who will not be our starter down the road. At least Croyle has a chance to be that guy, so it is very frustrating to have him injured. I also liked the thought of Rosenfels as the interim guy until we get player to be drafted later ready to take over the reigns. I also agree that the majority of QBs coming out will take time to develop. There are no obvious Peyton Mannings in this group, but there might be a Trent Edwards (smart, reads defenses, and has a quick delivery, which all bodes well at the pro level) in there?
by TheQ on
Sep 16, 2008 10:38 PM CDT
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Maybe
No clue what’s in the draft class yet until the college season’s closer to being over. But I think we still need to have somebody holding down the fort until whoever we draft is ready. It’s not realistic to grab a QB and expect him to be ready to perform at the pro level his first year out of college. Nor is it realistic to expect that whoever we draft will automatically be a good QB down the road.
As for Rosenfels, he’s okay, but he’s also not a free agent as far as I can tell, so he’d likely cost us a draft pick to sign him. Losman likely won’t because he’s unlikely to get franchised.
Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.
by UCrawford on
Sep 16, 2008 10:42 PM CDT
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Pick vs. Quarterback
If we could give up a 4th or 5th rounder right now for Rosenfels would you do it and let him play out the rest of the year?
by TheQ on
Sep 16, 2008 10:45 PM CDT
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I know that he may be a little "long in tooth" but
I think Bart Scott would be a HUGE pickup and upgrade to our LB corps.
by ROC 27 on
Sep 16, 2008 10:56 PM CDT
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I Tend To Be Leery
Of linebackers once they get that close to 30. I don’t even like linebackers when they get to 28. That’s why I only thought Dansby and Vilma were acceptable signings (assuming Vilma is healthy).
Heh…“Vilma”. I keep thinking of a Russian Fred Flintstone. :)
Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.
by UCrawford on
Sep 16, 2008 11:04 PM CDT
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But
Dont you think Vilma will stay put in New Orleans?? They finally have a formidable LB corps. And Bart Scott is the best LB Baltimore has next to Ray Lewis. Bart could be a great leader to our young guys and can lead by expample. Cause you gotta admit, the guy could play.
by ROC 27 on
Sep 16, 2008 11:06 PM CDT
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I Do
I mentioned that I doubt Vilma will leave if he’s offered a good contract and the team has success (which I think they will). Can’t see him pulling up stakes to come to a franchise in as much trouble as the Chiefs are right now when he’s in a good situation in New Orleans.
Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.
by UCrawford on
Sep 16, 2008 11:14 PM CDT
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I was thinking about mentioning Monty Beisel.
We would have the greatest set of special teams LB’s ever.
go to www.WideWorldofRoto.com for all your fantasy news!
by JasonM on
Sep 17, 2008 11:49 AM CDT
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Or Losman
I am not sure I want to give up on this year just to see how the young ones do. “YOU PLAY TO WIN THE GAME!” and we need to build confidence and a winning attitude. Our game planning was so bad against the Raiders I wondered if we were really trying to win? I think loyalty to Croyle this year or next be damned! Players need to know that we are doing everything we can to WIN, not try out for positions during the season.
by TheQ on
Sep 16, 2008 10:57 PM CDT
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Thats what Ive been saying
I’ve been pretty pissed that we throw games to “find out what we have”. THATS WHAT THE OFF-SEASON IS FOR!
by ROC 27 on
Sep 16, 2008 10:59 PM CDT
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Would you
work hard for your boss if he didn’t have your best interest at heart? What do you think guys that are used to winning think? A lot of the veterans that are left are very frustrated (not just LJ) and I don’t blame them. You don’t get performance bonuses for not making playoffs. If I was put into a position to fail at my current job, I would be finding another job. …just saying.
by TheQ on
Sep 16, 2008 11:13 PM CDT
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Losman
To me, obviously makes the most sense and contrary to most I think he’s actually been improving. His biggest knock is locking on receivers yet fortunately for us we only have a few receivers you’d want to throw to in the first place so he may be better fit than expected. ; ^ ) He is more mobile than Croyle in my opinion, has seemingly the same arm strength, and within the last year has shown strides of improvement unlike Croyle. I’m not one who believes Croyle’s days are over in KC he just can’t be taken legitimately as a starter until he plays long enough to become one. The acquisition of Losman, plus Croyle resigned, and a 2nd round QB in the draft would solidify the position nicely
by KansasCityShuffle on
Sep 17, 2008 1:21 AM CDT
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That Sounds
Like a very reasonable goal.
Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.
by UCrawford on
Sep 17, 2008 7:55 AM CDT
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Of Course
Because the Chiefs stink this year and Herm Edwards is our coach. No offense, but duh. Most of the teams on our schedule this year are probably looking forward to playing us.
Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.
by UCrawford on
Sep 17, 2008 7:57 AM CDT
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Interesting
I’m not sold on Losman, but he might be worth a chance. I have a question for everyone. How do we think Tampa Bay will do this year? If we think they will lose more than win, we could try trading 1st round draft choices with them (since ours will be maddeningly high) for Garcia. He could play out this season as the veteran presence to bring the majority of our young players along. We pick up Losman in FA and give him a shot. Then we draft one of the linebackers from USC with our (now) high-middle first round pick. We draft a couple of linemen from what will be a deep draft, and maybe a long-shot WR or CB. if we can’t draft or sign a legit #2 WR or solid CB, we consider (I’m ashamed to say it) trading Tony G for one and a high draft choice the following year. Then our team will mostly be in place to succeed (depending on Losman or Croyle).
by Chiefs4Life on
Sep 18, 2008 2:34 PM CDT
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