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Outcome Of Kansas City Chiefs Preseason Games Won't Matter

There are plenty of people that put a lot of stock into preseason games.  Nick Athan over at WPI for example, used Herm Edwards philosophy and said the Chiefs "must play to win the game" during these four exhibition games.

But if we have accepted that a playoff spot probably isn't within reach and the average draft position that would come from it would hurt us in the long run then the preseason games really don't matter.  We have all season to evaluate future talent, with future being the operative word there.

I understand the importance of building a winning philosophy but at this point for the Chiefs there are plenty of individual battles to be played out.

Who wins the MLB job?  Can Jamaal Charles leapfrog Kolby Smith?  Who will be the no. 2 behind Bowe?  How will the entire offensive line play?

It's less about wins and losses and more about these individual battles heading into the regular season.  I don't expect the Chiefs to resemble what they could become until at least the midway point.

The main proponent behind the importance of winning the preseason games, in my opinion, is avoiding the slow start Edwards' teams generally display.  However, his 17-11 record in the preseason is pretty good among active coaches and he's yet to avoid the sluggish start.

What do you think?  Is it more about wins/losses or individual battles in the '08 preseason?

0 recs | Comment 36 comments

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Individual Battles

The preseason is meaningless in terms of wins or losses and there’s very little to be gleaned from it in terms of team abilities. The guys the Chiefs are going to rely on the most over the regular season are playing the least and a lot of the guys you’ll see constantly in preseason aren’t going to be on the roster come September.

Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.

by UCrawford on Aug 4, 2008 11:03 AM CDT   0 recs

Personally

I think that people who say that teams must “play to win” in preseason games are only trying to give themselves a reason to watch preseason games.

Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.

by UCrawford on Aug 4, 2008 11:04 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

There's some correlation to winning in preseason and regular season

Those that win 3 or 4 preseason games average about a win more in the regular season than those that were held to 1 or 0 wins in the preseason.

by primetime 07 on Aug 4, 2008 11:05 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I like to watch...

I like seeing the young guys in action. Even if our scrubs are going against their scrubs, I like to see what the rookies can do, and how hard they play. To us it doesn’t matter, but to some of these guys this is the difference in making the team or not.

I remember a couple years back (LJ’s second year?) when LJ took a carry from our 1-2 yard line and busted up a gap in the middle and took it 98+ yards for a TD. That was exciting, and it was a glimpse of what he would eventually bring to the team. It doesn’t always pan out like that, but it’s cool when it does.

The win/loss doesn’t matter… except when we play Stl. in the Governors Cup, and that’s only because I always want us to stomp the nards off of the Lambs… even if it’s preseason.

by Ochophosphate on Aug 4, 2008 11:32 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

So you think it's totally meaningless?

I think it gives our team a jumping off point in terms of what to focus on this season.

by primetime 07 on Aug 4, 2008 11:05 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Let's Just Win Some Games!

Pre-Season, Regular Season, Post Season, I don’t care! Let’s just get some wins under our belt!!

All About The Exclamation Points!!!

by Goldzone on Aug 5, 2008 5:19 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I think

it could affect how we play against NE and OAK…in Herm’s first two years, we used all 4 preseason games to evaluate the 2nd and 3rd stringers. I can’t remember where I read it (maybe WPI) but from Herm’s comments it sounded like Herm was going to use the last 1 or 2 preseason games to get the starters all on the same page. Maybe that would help us to get off to a better start in the regular season.

personally, I don’t care what our preseason record is…I am interested in the competition, especially MLB, the defensive line (who REALLY wants Boone to be our starting LDE?) and whether Carr or another young guy looks like he has the potential to beat out Surtain by the end of the season.

by PVChiefsfan on Aug 4, 2008 11:13 AM CDT   0 recs

Woo-hoo, welcome back U!

And I’m happy to say that we’re on opposite sides of this particular debate. But sad to say I won’t have much time for it. So here’s why we need to win at least a couple.

1. Progress can be measured by watching tape, individual battles and just gaining playing time and experience. But after losing nine straight, we need to play to win the preseason games. The team needs a couple wins for its psyche. Really.. think about the mental struggle going into New England convincing ourselves that we could have won all those preseason games “if we really wanted to.” C’mon. We heard about vanilla plays last year. Excuses. Score points. Play defense. Have more points on the board than the other team at the end of the game.

2. We need the experience and time to gel, which is what I take from PV. I appreciate Herm giving the 79th player on the sqaud a chance to earn a spot (and feels it pays dividends for us when recruiting undrafted FA in the hours after the draft), but let’s play the second stringers in ways we will use them during the season.

3. Will we practice things we’ll do, or hide everything so people can’t scout us? Tough call on where to draw the line, obviously. I’d like to see us run more of what we’ll actually do in the season during preseason. Find out what works. One of my favorite lines is that “Creativity makes us infinite.” Eliminate the plays that don’t work then add some more as the season progresses. Assume that we can always create more and better plays, especially as we game plan for particular teams, which should be much better this year with Chan.

Besides play calling, what does it mean not to play for the win? Holding out the better players to avoid injury, right? I’m not saying we give LJ 30 carries. But I believe we have strong backs (although I must still be convinced about Battle) and can win with Smith and Charles. I expect to win using those guys. I expect to win with Carr on one of the corners. I expect to win with Morgan in for Pollard. We definitely hurt our chances when Cottam plays three quarters and Tony G only plays one. But other teams are also playing their new guys.

If we have the ball with a couple minutes to go in the first half, I expect us to go for a score. I don’t want to sit on it to avoid injury. One of the surest ways to get injuries, ironically, is to play like you don’t want to get hurt.

I expect us to go for two at the end of the game if an extra point would tie it. That’s not because I think it’s the best way to win the game, however. I do agree there’s a point at which you don’t want to go into overtime when no one wants to go there. So if we lose because we went against the odds and went for two, I can live with that. But I want us to call a terrific play and give it our all when we go for two.

Losses will unfornately reinforce the notion that our talent level is lower than the other teams. It will shoot holes in the idea that a group of talented, motivated, young athletes can work as a team to overcome experience and capture wins in 2008. We need a couple of wins in the preseason. It’s important. Do what you can to win the games, Herm.

by sunny D on Aug 4, 2008 11:48 AM CDT   0 recs

Thanks for the welcome back :)

I was gone on vacation all last week, and I’ll probably be kind of scarce for a bit…my home computer crashed the day I got back and I’m swamped at work. But I’ll pop in every once in awhile to see what’s up.

Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.

by UCrawford on Aug 5, 2008 10:30 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

And Your Points Are All Valid

I agree with everything you said, but it seems that those are more about fine-tuning the players and seasoning the bench and the rookies for the regular season than winning preseason games. Don’t get me wrong, I’m glad if they win a few, I just don’t think that winning in the preseason is all that important. Otherwise if the game were close by the end, they’d be putting in the better players to try and win it.

I agree with Ochophosphate, though, it’s cool to watch guys trying to win a spot and seeing everything start to gel. And I’ll find this preseason a lot more interesting than previous ones simply because we have so many young players, many of them very promising, that I’m anxious to see in action.

Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.

by UCrawford on Aug 5, 2008 10:36 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I Just Wish

That Branden Albert was going to be participating in more of it.

Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.

by UCrawford on Aug 5, 2008 10:36 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Hey! What about the trophy???

But don’t you get excited about the post-preseason NIT tourney in which the top preseason teams work through the brackets to claim their preseason championship in late August? I understand that halftime of this year’s game will include a special retirement ceremony for Favre in which they raise his jersey; then lower it; then raise it; then lower it;.....

by sunny D on Aug 5, 2008 11:39 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

LOL

That was classic :)

Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.

by UCrawford on Aug 5, 2008 12:32 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Lose-Lose Situation.

Option 1: Chiefs win preseason games:
” Hey! We won! Lookout world! See? We’re not as bad as you think we are! We’re coming to get you! We’re gonna surprise people, just like we surprised the Rams 3rd string defense! Back off, bitches!”

Two weeks later:
“Holy God, what happened? We looked so good in the preseason! How could this happen? I mean, I haven’t been beaten down like that since I called Tommy Edwards’ (high school bully) girlfriend the leading contestant for ‘Who Wants To Eat A Buick?’ We got curb checked? Oh, God, why did the preseason have to give us hope? Why?!”

Option 2: Chiefs lose preseason games.

“Dear Jesus, we can’t even beat the Rams’ 3rd string. This is a nightmare. This will be the worst season in Chiefs’ history. We’re going to be worse than New Coke. I would take the Bono teams over this debacle. We may lose eleventy billion straight.”

Two weeks later…

“You know? These guys aren’t half bad. I mean, I know we got pounded like we stole something, but we didn’t look that bad doing it. And you can tell that they were actually a little shocked by our fight. This team’s gonna lose games, but man, we’re not that bad.”

That’s where we’re at. There is NO upside to winning preseason games. To those that say it hurts morale, please. These guys don’t give a shit about winning a preseason games. For the veterans, it’s just a pain in the ass they have to go through. There’s no pride here. It’s an exhibition. It’s the football form of a weightlifting contest. You’re not actually competing against anyone, you’re just trying to show that you understand what you’re supposed to do, and that you’re physically capable of doing it. Winning is only going to bring more jokes from the media about us winning, and then more jokes later about “But they looked so good in the preseason!” Ha. Ha. Ha.

What’s more important is for us to show something we didn’t last year, even when we won. The ability to make plays. We need to show that even if we’re going to lose, that our quarterback can throw, our receivers can catch, our D-Line can stop people and attack the quarterback, that our linebackers are aggressive, and that our secondary knows what in the hell is going on. I’d rather lose by 3 in a preseason where we look competitive than win by 10 in one where we look like trash but the other team’s clearly packed it in.

And the win differential is a post ergo propter hoc situation. It’s not because they won the four preseason games that they won the extra regular season games. It’s because those teams are obviously better. We’re obviously not better, I think we can agree on that.

This whole season, like it or not, is not about wins and losses. It’s about progress. The difference between 2 wins, 6 wins, 10 wins is negligible. 2 wins means we’re farther from where want to be than where we are, 10 wins means our competition this year sucked and we’re a bit ahead of the curve (or we got lucky a few times), and 6 wins means we’re right about on schedule. But if we win 7 games and Dorsey and Albert look like busts and our offense is still the putrid excuse that it was last year, is that really progress?

We need competition and progress. Not wins.

by Ridiculous Matt on Aug 4, 2008 12:08 PM CDT   0 recs

Good stuff, Matt
I’d rather lose by 3 in a preseason where we look competitive than win by 10 in one where we look like trash but the other team’s clearly packed it in.

Agreed. You’ve hit on a detail that I didn’t describe. A big play to me is one in which we beat the other team at that moment. It’s another way to measure performance. And I’d have to agree that if we play starters for two quarters and they look sharp (i.e. make plays), then I don’t think it makes that much difference if we give away a 14-point halftime lead and lose the game in the second half because we’re trying to do different things at that point.

But if it’s only a few plays, then I’ll be disappointed because they’ll seem more like luck than talent and effort. When you see the things happen that you’re looking for - “our quarterback can throw, our receivers can catch, our D-Line can stop people and attack the quarterback, that our linebackers are aggressive, and that our secondary knows what is going on” - the scoreboard should reflect that. We should score more points than the other guys. When that happens you win the game. One indicator of success.

I also agree with your challenge to cause-and-effect regarding preseason wins and regular season wins. I don’t believe that winning 75% of the preseason games will then lead to automatically winning 75% of the regular season. But as you said, it’s an indication of who is better. Can the young, inexperienced guys hang with the other teams? Are we truly getting more athletic and better at the o-line and in the secondary or only younger?

As a caveat, I will say that because of the youth, it will be easier for me to rationalize losing early in the season in 2008 (and hence, preseason, too) with the idea that we will get better faster and farther than the other teams. It seems like a reasonable proposition.

Psychologically, these guys may be professionals, but they’re human. Give them a couple of wins out of the preseason games in order to get a toehold on being successful. I still say it’s important.

by sunny D on Aug 4, 2008 1:51 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Outstanding Post, Matt

I agree completely.

Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.

by UCrawford on Aug 5, 2008 10:42 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Nice primetime...

I am in the process of writing a similar article to this for my site then I come refresh my AP page and BAM! lol.. dang! Naw, I but I agree that wining is important, but in the preseason you should never sacrifice playing starters longer for wining in the preseason. If someone gets hurt in the preseason it affects games that actually matter.

http://www.kcchiefsfootball.com

http://www.kcchiefsfootball.com/
Go Chiefs!

by bigknoxy on Aug 4, 2008 12:34 PM CDT   0 recs

Just checked your site out

That above comment, when taken out of context, can come across pretty strange.

by primetime 07 on Aug 4, 2008 12:39 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

LOL....

yes,yes it could. and ‘that’s what she said’

Mine will be up shortly (article) thanks for taking a peek though.

http://www.kcchiefsfootball.com

http://www.kcchiefsfootball.com/
Go Chiefs!

by bigknoxy on Aug 4, 2008 12:47 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I think it matters.

If you win preseason games, I think it shows that you have better depth than other teams… which is especially important if you have an injured team like we do.

by Vinny D on Aug 4, 2008 1:37 PM CDT   0 recs

Excellent point

With about 1,000 fewer words than me. Nice job.

by sunny D on Aug 4, 2008 4:04 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Confidence

KC needs some. Preseason wins can help.

by dorsey on Aug 4, 2008 4:15 PM CDT   0 recs

You can't tell me

that anyone feels exactly the same way about a 0-4 preseason as they do about a 4-0 preseason. The players, coaches, and especially the fans are going to feel a lot better about things to come with a winning record (or at least .500) in the preseason.

by letral on Aug 4, 2008 4:16 PM CDT   0 recs

Preseason is meaningless unless you lost your last 9 games in a row

Then its critically important to get a win, even if its a preseason game. That streak has to be broken in the players minds or it wil continue to hang over them.

Preseason is still primarily for player development and I’m not saying you play Tony G and LJ for 4 quarters to make sure you win, but you don’t just view it as an extended practice either. They need to try to win these preseason games to get over that mental hump.

by ChiefDJ on Aug 4, 2008 5:11 PM CDT   0 recs

Exactly!

The Chiefs need to look up at the end of the game to know what it feels like to win again. Of course pre-season is meaningless, unless of course you are this particular version of the Chiefs!

All About The Exclamation Points!!!

by Goldzone on Aug 6, 2008 3:32 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

slightly off topic

but what does everybody think about changing to an 18 game season and only having 2 preseason games? Also, where did I hear that?

by PVChiefsfan on Aug 5, 2008 8:03 AM CDT   0 recs

I'd Be Cool With That

I think that it’s kind of pointless to have this many preseason games. Some would probably say that it deprives younger players of a shot at the NFL, but then with half a month added on I think that they’ll get their shot only because with such a long season the veterans will need more rest to last through it all. Only caveat would be that if the NFL went to a longer regular season I think they seriously need to consider expanding the active rosters by another five or six slots. Injuries will very likely go up substantially with two more games added on.

Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.

by UCrawford on Aug 5, 2008 10:40 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

It's Been Floated For Awhile Now

They were talking about 17 regular season games with one less preseason. They were having hangups, though, about who gets the extra home game. This was about the time that Jerry Jones was saying he had no intention of ever playing a Cowboys home game in England because he wasn’t going to give up the gate revenues from his new stadium.

Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.

by UCrawford on Aug 5, 2008 1:26 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I also heard an idea

Of playing the 17th game in a neutral site somewhere abroad. Sure makes sense with the NFL implementing brand identification internationally.

by primetime 07 on Aug 5, 2008 1:29 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Interesting Idea, But

It’s not really feasible for every team to play a game overseas every year, nor are there likely many venues in the States that could handle games like that outside of current NFL cities while maximizing gate revenue. Also, you have what I call the “selfish bastard” syndrome with guys like Jones who refuses to consider giving up a home game every other year in his brand-new taxpayer-funded stadium. He’s already said that he has no interest in allowing the Cowboys to play games overseas, international branding be damned.

Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.

by UCrawford on Aug 5, 2008 1:46 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

They wouldn't give up a regular season home game

3 preseason games. One home, One away, One Neutral.

Jerry Jones understands what it means to market his team. Why do you think they conduct training camp near Los Angeles?

by primetime 07 on Aug 6, 2008 11:34 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Jerry Jones

He needs more money so he can have some more plastic surgery done to his face. The guy looks more and more like Joan Rivers every year.

Has anybody seen Brazil (Terry Gilliam directed)?? I think Jerry is aiming for this look.

by Ochophosphate on Aug 5, 2008 11:11 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

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