The Chiefs Make Their Final Cuts
In addition to the 17 cuts made "official" this morning, the Kansas City Chiefs released T Will Svitek, G Tre Stallings, FB Chris Manderino, WR Bobby Sippio and LB LeRue Rumph this afternoon.
Here is the final, full list of cuts made by the Chiefs in order to meet the 53-man roster deadline. Expect practice squad designations and waiver wire pick ups to happen over the next one to two days.
FB Chris Manderino
OC Rob Smith
OG Tre Stallings
OG Travis Leffew
OG Edwin Harrison
OT Anthony Alabi
OT Will Svitek
TE Michael Allan
TE Michael Merritt (PUP)
WR Kevin McMahan
WR Sergiori Joachim
WR Jabari Arthur
WR Bobby Sippio
DE Jason Parker
DE Johnny Dingle
DT Derek Lokey
LB EJ Kuale
LB Steve Octavien
LB LeRue Rumph
CB Rashad Barksdale
S Khayyam Burns
PK Connor Barth
Consider this an open thread about the roster.
H/T to BobGretz.com. Official link is here.
Comments
So we do keep
five running backs on the final roster. Very interesting.
It’s also interesting that Sams and Savage both made the team.
by Chris on Aug 30, 2008 5:18 PM CDT 0 recs
Well
The release of Svitek means that our 2005 draft was officially terrible (only two players who were any good out of nine chosen). Combined with the release of Stallings, I’m having a few reservations about the Chiefs’ ability under Herm Edwards to develop young offensive linemen. Herb Taylor’s looked somewhat promising, so hopefully they’ll end that streak quickly.
Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.
by UCrawford on Aug 30, 2008 5:22 PM CDT 0 recs
Sams
And keeping B.J. Sams makes me question Carl Peterson’s sanity. What’s that they say about doing the same things over and expecting different results? Carl picked up an over-the-hill kick returner last year who fair caught everything and it worked out terribly for us. Now he’s grabbed another guy who’s performed the same in camp and he seems to think the results will be better.
And the real kicker is, B.J. Sams is older this year than Eddie Drummond was last year.
Fire Mike Priefer.
Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.
by UCrawford on
Aug 30, 2008 5:27 PM CDT
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Priefer
And I say fire Priefer because I’m going to assume that he’s the one advocating to keep Sams. And if so, he’s officially demonstrated that he’s an incompetent special teams coordinator.
Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.
by UCrawford on
Aug 30, 2008 5:30 PM CDT
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+1.
Although what Sams showed on Thursday was more than Drummond ever showed ever in a Chiefs uniform. So, I am predicting only slightly better returns from BJ. Hopfully, the plug will be pulled by Week 5 at the latest, or Sams will start producing like he hasn’t since his rookie year.
by rockchalk on
Aug 30, 2008 6:50 PM CDT
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UCrawford....2005 draft...
If my memory serves me correctly and I think it does was not the 2005 draft done entirely by carl peterson? IF not then then that was just when Herm started working here and most certainly the draft changes were not changed untl the next year….by draft changes….that others now had as much say as did Carl peterson….
by writer on
Aug 31, 2008 12:35 AM CDT
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It's An Academic Discussion
The 2006, 2007, and 2008 drafts were still done by the team of people Carl Peterson brought on board, same as the 2005 drafts. So it doesn’t really matter who was actually pulling the trigger on the draft picks, Carl or one of his subordinates…the Chiefs’ front office (and its GM) is as responsible for the 2006/2007/2008 draft as they were for every draft before it since 1989 because the same person was responsible for hiring all of the people who had anything to do with those drafts.
Understand that I’m not saying that all of the people who have worked on the drafts are equally bad. I think Lynn Stiles was worse than Bill Kuharich when it came to evaluating personnel, since the drafts seem to have picked up quite a bit since Stiles left. But since we don’t know who, specifically, okayed each draft pick because we aren’t privy to that information we need to hold the front office in general responsible for any failed drafts (and their GM in particular) because the same guy has been in charge of the team for all that time.
Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.
by UCrawford on
Aug 31, 2008 10:13 AM CDT
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Its not Herms fault...but who then?
In the 5 years that Vermeil was coach, he drafted 6 offensive linemen, Sulfsted, Brett Williams, Black, Sampson,Parquet, Svitek. How many are still with the team? I think the development of OL is not Herms fault, but the lack of talent evaluation during the term of Vermiel.
The question we should all be asking should be to Carl, Why was our scouting so bad?
I don’t think its by coincidence that our most promising drafts have been under Herm and Bill Kuharich.
Vermeil said that it takes about 3 years to truly evaluate the talent of a player, and a college coach said that it takes a minimum of 5 years get the program completely turned around. Getting the players that the coach needs to implement his plan from the blackboard onto the football field. So that makes it year 3 in Herms plan, two more years then we’ll know if Herm will make our Chiefs into a Superbowl team. We gave Vermeil 5 years, only because we were mesmerized with all the offense. So lets see if Herm knows were he’s going. We’re already half way into it, so lets be patient, otherwise we just wasted 3 years for nothing.
by aPacificChief on
Aug 31, 2008 2:14 AM CDT
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Peterson
When you have a history of bad drafting and you’ve had multiple coaching changes, you need to look for the constant factor over all that time. Carl Peterson has been the constant.
And, as I pointed out in the above comment, I’m willing to bet that none of us work for the front office, so none of us know who actually is responsible for drafting whom. And since we don’t know, it’s kind of silly to debate that anyway because the responsibility for the front office’s results is still the GM’s and we’ve had the same GM for almost 20 years. So it doesn’t really matter whether it was a “Herm” draft or a “Vermeil” draft or a “Kuharich” draft because all of the drafts were Carl Peterson’s responsibility because he was in charge and hired all of those people.
Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.
by UCrawford on
Aug 31, 2008 10:17 AM CDT
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Also
I’m not trying to say that the 2007 and 2008 drafts were busts either…or even that the 2006 season was definitely a bust. It’s still too early to render judgment on 2007 and 2008 and it’s a bit too early to give a final verdict on 2006 (that should come in 2009 or so, unless for some reason the team for some reason dumps all of the players from that draft before then, which isn’t going to happen and isn’t merited).
Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.
by UCrawford on
Aug 31, 2008 10:20 AM CDT
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I agree, although..
Good points about holding Carl responsible, but if you look at the 2000 & 1999 drafts when Gunther was head honcho his drafts were not as nearly as bad as when Vermeil was coach. Sylvester Morris, Wesley, Dante Hall, John Tait, Gary Stills. Morris should have been a player if he didn’t have the injury issues, Dante went to the Pro-Bowl (given as a returner), and Tait is still a starter in Chicago.
But the drafts under Vermeil were particularly bad. Why?
The coaching changes did affect the drafts, but I think it was based on the different coaching philosophy of each coach. Not on the high turnover of coaches.
by aPacificChief on
Aug 31, 2008 6:38 PM CDT
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Differing Drafts
The general story is that Vermeil pushed to draft for need instead of best player available and our team did a crappy job of scouting (Lynn Stiles was supposedly more of an instinctive scout than an objective one) so we got a lot of bad players. Doesn’t really matter, though, because Carl Peterson is still the one responsible because it’s his job to shoot down the head coach when he comes up with a bad idea and it’s his job to hire the people to do scouting and oversee their efforts.
Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.
by UCrawford on
Aug 31, 2008 11:48 PM CDT
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I'd like to blame it on Carl, but....
Since the time when Carl became GM back in ‘89, I blamed him for wasting the careers of our stars. By just patching a quick fix QB to lead the team. Guys like Dave Krieg, Steve Bono to name a few, it always seemed to me that Carl was more interested in selling out the stadium than risking years to develop a legitimate QB. Just look into the QB’s that he’s drafted, Barnes, Stenstrom, Blundin, names that the top scouts didn’t think much about, but Carl drafted high.
It always looked like when the team needed one more piece to solve the riddle of the elusive SB berth, he would address it next year. Guys like Derrick Thomas, Saleuamua, Alt, Shields, deserved a legitimate shot at a Superbowl. Then the years started to pass, and these guys started getting older, look at Tony G. he’s the next to have watched his career pass without a real chance at a SB.
I think the blame (forgive me Mr. Hunt, RIP) goes up a little higher than Carl. Even though I look at Carl for those mistakes, a true leader is to trust in your subordinates. Yes, Carl hired all those guys who failed the team, but to completely point the finger solely at him is too convenient. Right now it looks like Herm is a blessing in disquise, because so far he’s the only one who has the guts to stand up to Carl, and continue to insist on what he wants and not the other way around.
by aPacificChief on
Sep 1, 2008 3:09 AM CDT
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I Didn't Have A Problem With The Veteran QBs
Most of them weren’t horrible, in fact some of them were very good for us (Montana, Trent Green, Dave Krieg, Steve DeBerg, even Elvis Grbac wasn’t abysmal). The problem was that they were short-term solutions and Carl Peterson has been incapable of finding a QB in the draft to provide a long-term solution. I don’t think it’s a matter of Peterson making a conscious decision to never draft a young QB so he can “sell out the stadium”, I think it’s a matter of Carl Peterson simply having no clue what to look for in a rookie QB in the draft. If you look at the QBs Peterson has drafted that flopped (Elkins, Blundin, Stenstrom, Matthews) all of them were either average or slightly above-average QBs in college who had trouble completing a high percentage of passes, and historically those kind of QBs have trouble making the transition to the pros. Yet Peterson keeps drafting or picking up that kind of young QB (Croyle and Thigpen are also in that mold) and expecting different results. That’s not a sign to me that Peterson is trying to rip off the fans, that’s a sign to me that he doesn’t have any clue of what to look for in a rookie quarterback.
As for why our QB draftees never got playing time until Peterson finally committed to Croyle, I’d posit that it’s not because the coaching staff refused to play them because they hate young QBs (Schottenheimer, in fact, has developed three very good young QBs…Bernie Kosar, Drew Brees, and Philip Rivers), it’s because the coaching staff recognized that those players simply weren’t talented enough to develop into good players and going with the veteran QB was the smarter option for the team.
I think the blame (forgive me Mr. Hunt, RIP) goes up a little higher than Carl.
I’d agree with that and think it’s a fair critique. Lamar Hunt was a decent man and a visionary who did a lot of good things for the NFL and I think he was more financially supportive of the team than many owners are, but as an owner I think he was a bit negligent in who he let run his team. He had Jack Steadman around for years despite the fact that the man was clearly incompetent and he kept Carl Peterson around for much longer than he should have considering that Peterson’s last playoff win was over a decade before Hunt died. I think Hunt was very loyal to the people who worked for him, which is admirable in some ways, but not so desirable when that loyalty lets one ignore whether the employees any good at their jobs. Personally, I think Peterson probably should have been removed as GM either after the 1997 season with Marty or after 1998 when the team was becoming disenchanted with Gunther as head coach (they should have brought in a new GM to find Gunther’s replacement). The hiring of Dick Vermeil was not a bad move (because he was a very good head coach, if a poor evaluator of draft talent) but allowing Peterson to handle that hiring committed the franchise to Peterson for at least Vermeil’s tenure. I think Hunt should have recognized by that point that Peterson was basically treading water and lacked the ability to get the Chiefs over the hump as a GM.
Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.
by UCrawford on
Sep 1, 2008 8:45 AM CDT
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However
Lamar Hunt’s not around anymore, his son’s running the team, so far it appears that his son is taking a different tack from his father, so it’s kind of pointless to revisit who’s at fault besides Peterson unless Clark Hunt keeps repeating his father’s mistakes (and since owners don’t get fired anyway). I have a feeling that if Croyle flops this season and if the team doesn’t show improvement, that Clark Hunt will be a lot quicker to make changes than his father was. Hopefully that impression will be correct.
Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.
by UCrawford on
Sep 1, 2008 8:51 AM CDT
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Interesting....
Absolutely right about the timeline on when Carl should of been replaced.
I like the fact that Clark Hunt is the wild card in all this, because the impression that I’m left with is that Carl’s not sitting so comfortably in his office chair these days. Isn’t Carl’s contract up in the next year or 2?
So lets say that these next two years the Chiefs show improvement. Like actually showing that they have a right in the playoffs, and Carl’s contract is up, what would you do? But they still haven’t made it past AFC championship game.
Given that resigning our developing stars might not even negotiate with the club because of the negotiating tactics of Carl. (i.e. John Tait, and Jared Allen) and all this build through the draft becomes a mute point.
UCrawford, Interested to hear your commentary, I’ve been enjoying your point of view.
by aPacificChief on
Sep 1, 2008 3:51 PM CDT
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Nap Harris
He barely missed being cut. I am guessing that his making the team was mostly due to the cap hit we would take next year. But he also may be one of the next ones gone if they make some moves?
by TheQ on Aug 30, 2008 5:26 PM CDT 0 recs
Cap Hit
Oh, I’m sure that was a major factor. Whenever the Chiefs have to make personnel decisions, bailing Carl Peterson out of having to explain his rotten contracts by continuing to carry terrible players is usually of the utmost importance.
Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.
by UCrawford on
Aug 30, 2008 5:28 PM CDT
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Mike Cox
Looks like he made the cut…so the Chiefs seem to have made a very smart decision there. Glad to see it because I thought he looked great during his opportunities.
Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.
by UCrawford on Aug 30, 2008 5:34 PM CDT 0 recs
No Offense To Chris Manderino
Who I hope is able to catch on somewhere.
Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.
by UCrawford on
Aug 30, 2008 5:35 PM CDT
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The mothership depth chart
is strangely odd. It doesnt list TJ Jackson at all.
by Lanier63 on Aug 30, 2008 5:42 PM CDT 0 recs
Only two changes.
I would have cut Nap Harris in place of Steve Octavien, and I would have cut BJ Sams (who is essentially counted as WR #6) instead of Kevin McMahan. But overall, a pretty good job done by Herm in keeping the guys that needed to be kept (see: Savage, Dantrell) and cutting most of the dead weight.
by rockchalk on Aug 30, 2008 6:52 PM CDT 0 recs
Maybe now
we can end all these Sippio mancrushes. Lets see who he signs with now. Thats IF he gets signed by anyone.
by stram#1 on Aug 30, 2008 7:31 PM CDT 0 recs
What I don't get...
Given Sippio had some bad drops in the preseason, but the boy did have reliable hand until then. Why is every one so high on speed? Sammie had speed, so does Webb, but boy they dropped alot of balls. Jerry Rice and Art Monk didn’t have blazing speed, but their in the Hall of Fame. We could of used Sippio as a possession reciever underneath on 3rd down, at the least.
by aPacificChief on
Aug 31, 2008 2:26 AM CDT
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Because
Without speed the receiver can’t get separation from defenders, the QB then ends up throwing into coverage more (or taking sacks) and we lose our ability at big plays and increase the chance of turnovers.
You can carry a slow guy or two on your roster at some positions, but you can’t do it at WR unless the WR’s other skills are simply out of this world. Sippio had good hands, but as the preseason showed with several key drops they probably weren’t good enough to make the case that they compensated for his lack of speed.
Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.
by UCrawford on
Aug 31, 2008 10:24 AM CDT
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Makes me wonder if he could
have turned into a decent tight end?
by Lanier63 on
Aug 31, 2008 1:24 PM CDT
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Too Small
You need to be around at least 250 pounds or so to cut it at tight end (otherwise you’ll get crushed on blocking).
Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.
by UCrawford on
Aug 31, 2008 11:49 PM CDT
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Zone
Thats why you have the burners on the opposite side of the field to threaten them deep. You could use him on crossing routes or underneath.
All NFL teams do not play man to man coverage on every play. Teams would also play zone coverage on areas of the field, or on certain situations. The question is could Sippio find the soft parts of the Zone to get open. Sometimes playing wide reciever is out playing the defender for the ball. But, I’ll put my trust on Herms scouting experience. I would just hate to see another Joe Horn incident.
by aPacificChief on
Aug 31, 2008 6:56 PM CDT
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Jerry Rice
didn’t need speed to get open because he ran the best routes of any WR ever…he was a god =)
by PVChiefsfan on
Aug 31, 2008 8:25 PM CDT
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Don't Sell Him Short
Jerry Rice was extremely fast on the field. People kept saying his speed was mediocre because he ran a so-so 40 time, but as Marty Schottenheimer once said, what the scouts didn’t realize was that unlike many players Rice didn’t lose any of that speed once he was in uniform and playing in a game (unlike many players). So while he wasn’t a combine warrior, he was still a fast wide receiver on the field.
Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.
by UCrawford on
Aug 31, 2008 11:52 PM CDT
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I didn't mean to imply
that Rice didn’t have speed. But his route running was impeccable. The guy could look off a heat seeking missile =)
by PVChiefsfan on
Sep 1, 2008 7:21 PM CDT
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I heard ya, PV
When people talk about speed (WR, RB, CB most often), do you think they usually refer to 40 times or on-field speed? For example, if the Chiefs were to have a WR in camp for a couple years who had legendary hands, but was considered slow, do you think people would be refering to 40 times, or watching the player and not seeing any separation?
Then there are some guys — like Jamaal — who have great track speed (his times would have qualified him for this year’s Olympic team!) and also impress people with his speed on the football field.
by sunny D on
Sep 1, 2008 11:03 PM CDT
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Good Question
When people talk about speed (WR, RB, CB most often), do you think they usually refer to 40 times or on-field speed?
It would depend on who is talking – an “analyst” (pundit) will talk about 40 times…a coach would talk about game speed – Parker had the former, Franklin and Charles (and Price to some extent) have the latter.
by PVChiefsfan on
Sep 2, 2008 7:52 PM CDT
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I doubt it
People still fawn after Casey Printers and Justin Phinisee, even though neither guy is in the NFL now.
The legend of Bobby Sippio will never die!
by ChiefDJ on
Aug 31, 2008 9:18 AM CDT
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Casey Printers
I was a little pissed when the Chiefs dumped him, until he went to the CFL and proceeded to suck. Then I accepted that perhaps the reason the Chiefs let him go was that he wasn’t very good.
Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.
by UCrawford on
Aug 31, 2008 10:26 AM CDT
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Maybe
We should think that they kept some of these guys so we can use them as trade bait. I mean, why would we release a decent player (or a player that may fill in somewhere else) when we obviously have people to fill that role? If we look at the last few years they are at least attempting to make good decisions, or so we hope, with the draft and trading players. Lets see what happens this week before we really become concered with some of the players that were kept.
by hugechiefsfan on Aug 30, 2008 9:48 PM CDT 0 recs













