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The new and improved offensive line, sort of

Well, I saw highlights of the bears game.

 I read coverage from a variety of sources about the bears game.

I have tried to catch up on all the news overall about the team, and the OL.

 

My take?

 

Sorry, they don't cut it.

 

They will be average at best.  Iwill watch this game to see what behind the line changes they make to speed up play and carry out plays without dragging tteir feet, but the offense cannot enjoy the long counts they got under Trent Green , Willie Roaf, etc...back then.  You remember those guys.

Now, they weren't just a group of exceptional players, they were an exceptional unit.

What we have now is one or two exceptional players and a bunch of guys that need to get their act together.

 

If they can get themselves together as a unit, and think as a unit, they may be pretty dang good.

 

I don't see it happening this season.  But,  I have hope.

 

I do not, have not, will not be a Herm fan.  I thought it was a bad decision to bring him aboard and I think it's a bad decision to keep him.

 

We make do with what we're given though.

 

I'll be happy to see 8-8 this year and not blow out a QB.  This kid is gonna get killed though I'm afraid.  I just hope he's tough enough to keep taking the hits.

 

Big Bear

ps...  Yes, I will try to post with more specifics per player and the unit as  I go along,

 

 

 

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of Arrowhead Pride's writers or editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of Arrowhead Pride writers or editors.

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Glad to hear your take bigbear.

I think our left side will be ok with either Taylor, or BA. Our rightside with Jets reject and a unhappy D-Mac will continue to be a problem. I do not understand with expectations being too high why Barry Richardson is not at right tackle. When BA is healthy then move Herb Taylor to right guard, and cut our losses with Mac and get what we can get out of him, or keep himas a reserve. Anxious to hear more from you BigBear!

by Eric Allen on Aug 16, 2008 8:30 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Reasons

Despite everyone being against Adrian Jones before they have even seen him play because he was on Herms Jets team, he has played well at RG so far during camp. He had one bad play in the Bears game when he was late pulling and got LJ bown up, but he did a good job the rest of the time he was in.

Taylor is not suited to play Guard. People keep wanting to pound the square peg in the round hole because he has Guard size, but he is not a very good run blocker which you want at Guard but he is a decent pass blocker in space, which you want at Tackle. I think he will remain at backup LT so that if something were to happen to Albert, at least they could keep the QBs blind side reasonably well protected and just run to the right side.

Barry Richardson has all the tools, the question is if he has the heart and mental capacity to get it going. From what I saw of him, he needs a LOT of work before he’s ready to start at RT. Herm has no problem starting young players, but they have to have to be ready to play. From everything Ive heard and seen, Richardson needs a year at least. Pay attention to him when he was in the Bears game if you have it recorded. He could not stay engaged to his defender, and you’re talking about 3rd string DEs. They would beat him and he would give them a push to give the QB some extra time, but he could never stay on the guy the whole time. He just needs some more work.

by ChiefDJ on Aug 16, 2008 10:02 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Agree on the O-line, disagree on Herm

There is no question the offensive line is a project under construction. How many teams have a lock future Hall of Famer on their offensive line? Well during the Vermeil years, we had TWO, plus another Pro Bowler to boot. When you lose both of those Hall of Fame guys a year apart with no replacments waiting in the wings, you get what we had last year.

We, as Chiefs fans, should have no delusions that the offensive line is going to be great this year, but it SHOULD be better than last year, and thats something at least.

One thing that is good, is that the coaching staff realizes the O-line is in flux so they are shifting to more zone run blocking which will help to alleviate some of the pressure from the less than average linemen and more bootlegs and rollouts that will relieve the pressure from the QB and give him extra time.

All of these changes are done with the recognition that the offensive line is currently sub-standard and needs some help, and that recognition is a good thing.

by ChiefDJ on Aug 16, 2008 8:57 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

I think...

Herb is proving his worth for sure…I like the idea somebody had of getting him and Richardson to man the right side eventually…a pair of 6th rounders starting…itd be pretty sweet if they were solid…

I like Herm…he is old school…its a proven formula, all the way back to the 70s Steelers (Coached by Chuck Noll who mentored Tony Dungy who mentored Herm)…ball control offense with a power running game…dominant defense…we just…havent reached it yet, obviously…

by woodman212 on Aug 16, 2008 3:31 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

I'll take Herm as a coach

I like his core values, in both football and human terms.

  • He’s fair, open, positive, and balances being a players’ coach with taking a stand.
  • His players typically don’t quit (although the second half of last season is somewhat debatable) and they have a history of avoiding penalties. (Again, was last year a fluke?)
  • His eye for talent appears to be better than average, as well. And his players stay out of trouble, for the most part.
    He’s got the intangible parts that you’ve either got or not.

His weaknesses are areas that can get better, and for which I’ve seen improvement this year:

1. His lop-sided defensive thinking is not good for a head coach. The head coach needs to bring out the best in everybody and on both sides of the ball. I’m sure he was brought in due in part because we had a great offense, but a poor defense. So management was looking for a defensive-minded head coach. Whether it be drafting, teaching or just plain attention — he favors the defense. He still does to a degree, but a big part of the fix for this problem is the new OC Chan. Chan has head coach capabilities that allow him to take charge of the offense and give it a voice.

2. Minimal offense philosophy is a related weakness. The first couple of years, Herm was trying to convince people that it’s okay to score 10-14 points a game. He was following an offensive jugernaut that wasn’t going to be sustained with more draft choices going to the defense coupled with an aging group on offense that were going to decline rapidly. I just don’t think you want a head coach psychologically limiting your offensive production. Score points! In this area, I have heard Brodie talk more openly about scoring points this year. Everyone seems to be focused on scoring points and not just giving the defense a rest, which seemed to be the only thing an offense was good for in Herm’s mind previous to this year. Like my first point – improvement this year.

3. The third thing I’ve really disliked about Herm the first two seasons has also gotten a lot better this year — using preseason almost exclusively for player evaluation and competition and not enough investment in preparing for the season. I was really shocked this year when the Chiefs named a tentative starting offensive line before camp even began! That’s 180 degrees from the previous 2 years. But he went out on a limb so that they could play together and install the offense. Plus, the play calling in the first game this year was not all “vanilla.” Turned out that’s about the only flavor the team had on the shelf all last year. So I am very glad to see more emphasis on teaching and preparation during the preseason.

4. I’ve heard the knock many times that his game management is not good. So many people have said it that I’m just going to go along with it. I haven’t witnessed any disasters that I can remember, but some of the problems and indecisiveness must go back to his days at the Jets. If there is a problem in this area, I’m hoping Chan as well as Eric Price help this year.

I believe a strong defense is the most important key to winning in the NFL. Matches Herm’s approach. You also must have a good offense. Chan to the rescue…I hope. Herm seems to be moderate when it comes to working the team too hard or not hard enough. That’s gotta be a tough call as a coach. He stresses mental and physical toughness both in player selection and development. I think it will pay off.

Every coach has faults. Coughlin’s team won the Super Bowl last year and I believe he has many detractors. Belichick does an amazing job, but I’d have to hold my nose regarding the way he does a few things. To me, Herm is in the top half of NFL coaches. And I think he’s still learning some things on the job. He’s getting better, I believe. But I’ll take him. I can be proud of him and the team he assembles almost all the time. That’s my 2 cents.

by sunny D on Aug 16, 2008 5:15 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

But....He is our coach

I don’t understand the Herm bashing all the time. Like it or not, he is in his positions for a reason. I’d just like us to support him. Mr Hunt will decide when he goes and that will be based on the performance of the Chiefs team. Evaluations on success, or failure can be levied around midseason and then in January.

So far this year, I’ve seen nothing but improvement all around. We have known since last January what this year was going to be. Herm told everyone what to expect and most of us were excited and understood that this is a process of building and it takes time. You can’t just expect miracles and perfection in the preseason, especially with such a young team!

Let’s watch the growth and development of our young players with expectations of improvement this year, playoffs next year, and Superbowl contention for the rest of the decade. I know some just have their minds set against Herm, but until he actually fails as a coach of this Chiefs team with his players, please back up, take a breath, and stop the negativity.

My rant of the day!

by TXChiefan on Aug 17, 2008 10:15 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Somewhere along the way

The role of a fan began being defined as much on Monday morning quarterbacking as on simply cheering for the team. (I do both.) Then booing the home team somehow became acceptable. As if degrading the players with the same jersey that’s on a person’s back is going to result in a positive outcome. Dollars are part of it. When a person pays professionals to put on a good show, that $100 one spends to attend the game raises expectations. And the perception of the right to criticize. It wouldn’t be so bad, imo, if that behavior wouldn’t go beyond the professional games. But it creeps down to college, high school and lower.

Overall, I don’t see what I’d consider a lot of “bashing” on this site. Analysis, yes; opinions, yes. But quite a bit of bashing exists in some other media. It blows my mind that the Star would allow so much venom to permeate their site — at many levels. Ultimately, let’s hope we continue to hear cheers for our players and coaches when they’re introduced for the very reason you mention, TX. When we go against others, let’s circle the wagons.

by sunny D on Aug 17, 2008 10:44 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Criticism comes in the void of success

It’s easy to like or dislike a coach. Some people didn’t like Vermeil’s negligence of defense and lack of a hard nosed approach. Until he started winning. Then everyone thought it was pretty great. It’s only after he’s gone that people come out of the woodwork to criticize the guy that brought us our best season in a little under a decade and made us relevant again. Likewise, some people marveled at his offensive ingenuity and sensitive bond with the players, only to later have to admit that his lack of defensive focus kept us from winning a Super Bowl.

It’s the same with Herm. Lots of people here love the hard-nosed approach and dedicated toughness that Herm brings with “just playing football.” Others of us tend to think that gameplanning and a level of offensive creativity may actually help you win. Herm hasn’t won yet, so there’s going to be criticism. The roster change on this team has been so dramatic that he’s bought himself some time to make good on his promises without having his head called for. But there are things to look at, which some of us will be looking at this season, which help you tell whether he can actually coach, not just draft and develop. We can turn over roster spots as often as we want, but if we have problems with managing the clock inside two minutes in a tied game with the Broncos, I’m still going to be more than a little upset.

I think healthy discussion of what Herm’s doing is a good thing. And this offseason, Herm’s been nothing short of brilliant. From the draft, to training camp, to his approach in the preseason, to the coordinator hires. He’s been terrific. And if we go 2-14 but it’s clear we’ve made positive progress and are a better team at the end of the season, Herm will have done his job. But if we go 8-8 but look like the same mess we’ve looked like for most of the last 12 months, he’ll deserve the criticism as much as he would deserve the praise.

It’s a fan’s right to criticize. You’re not bound to a team just to ra-ra. No one just wants to focus on the negative. The Chiefs winning brings joy to every Chiefs fan. But we come here because we want to read about, think about, and discuss our favorite team. And that’s more than just saying how awesome LJ is or how DBowe is the Show (though he is). It also means asking why in the name of God certain players still start, and looking at what we think the team needs to do to improve. It doesn’t make you any less of a fan to criticize. It makes you less of one to try and tell other people how to be one.

by Ridiculous Matt on Aug 18, 2008 10:29 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

I agree

I have to say Matt (MAWK) your writing skills are much improved during the offseason. Not that they were ever bad, but you’ve written some compelling stuff today.

I am always going to be optomistic about the team and I know others are always going to lean towards the negative, but there is room for both. Where things get out of whack is when extreme homerism meets extreme cynicism.

Its easy now at the beginning of the season to say we’ll be fine with 2-14 if we see progress. If you remember, almost all of us KNEW at the beginning of last preseason that the team was old and there were a lot of holes, not least of which were on the offensive line, and we were probably not going to be a very good team.

The true test is that we fans not let our frustrations of the moment cloud our vision of the big picture. Will we still be as objective about the big picture of just improving game by game when we are in the middle of another 5 game losing streak or will we forget it in our angst of the moment and start calling for heads?

Will we assign credit and blame where it really belongs instead of looking for scapegoats? Will Chan Gailey be the genius when the offense makes a great play but Herm Edwards be the goat when the same offense performs badly? Will the WRs get the credit for the catches, but Croyle get blamed for the incompletions? Will LJ get blamed for running into the backs of the offensive line but the O-line be blamed when Kolby does the same thing?

Valid criticism is what we live live for on internet sites like AP. It is the debate of what should be considered valid that is where the hiccups arise. :)

by ChiefDJ on Aug 18, 2008 5:28 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Now THAT's What I'm Talking About!

Sunny D and Matt you just made my day! Insiteful and awesome posts.

I appreciate discussion and invite debate on positive or negative issues. That makes us all more informed and actually stronger fans. The overwhelming majority of our fans are extremely knowledgable about the game and neuances of the players that I don’t have the good fortune of knowing, so I really appreciate their viewpoints. Again, both positive and negative. Agreed, I don’t read to just be a cheerleader.

I’m not coming down on bigbearomaha, because he just voiced an opinion and we all have ours. I just prefer that critical comments be backed up with sound reasons and perspectives, not just anger, or even hate (as seen in the Star), so that we all can understand the comments and discuss the arguments.

by TXChiefan on Aug 18, 2008 1:50 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

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