Should The Chiefs Grab John Beck?
by UCrawford on Aug 14, 2008 4:08 PM CDT
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PrintWorth a look. Thanks for putting this together, UCrawford. -Primetime
Dolphins coach Tony Sparano today denied a media report that quarterback John Beck has been cut.
A sports Web site, profootballtalk.com, carried the story today based on what it called an "unconfirmed tip."
But Beck participated in this morning's practice and will be on the field later this afternoon, Sparano said.
"There's a lot of rumors in this business. John will be at practice today," Sparano said in his post-practice press conference.
The team has four quarterbacks in camp - Chad Pennington, Chad Henne, Josh McCown and Beck - and Sparano has said he might keep all four on the roster.
But teams usually keep only three quarterbacks. While Pennington and Henne are likely safe, Beck and McCown probably are battling for the third spot.
Beck is the only player with no ties to the Dolphins' current regime.
So, if the Dolphins end up cutting their second round draft pick from last year, the important question is, should the Chiefs pick him up?
Beck certainly did little to impress when he was pressed into service during his rookie season after Trent Green went down with a season-ending concussion. But a closer look at his numbers reveals that Beck's performance last season as a rookie was roughly comparable to Brodie Croyle's performance as a second-year player, while playing for an even more disastrous offense (Miami had almost every one of their running backs go down with injuries and their offensive line was a sieve for pass-blocking). A quick analysis of college statistics shows that Beck's performance in college at BYU (a program that has turned out three very solid NFL QBs in the last two decades) was significantly better than Croyle's at Alabama (a school that hasn't turned out an NFL QB of note since Ken Stabler in 1968)...particularly in the area of completion percentage, where Beck's completion percentage his senior year (2006) was 10 points higher than Croyle's senior year in 2005 with a markedly better TD/INT ratio throughout his college career. It should also be noted that Beck's injury history during his playing time has been significantly less storied than Croyle's.
My own opinion on the matter is that Beck's certainly worth a gamble as a backup QB and possible starter should Croyle get injured or fail to improve. We'd likely be able to get Beck fairly cheaply, he offers at least the same potential as a QB that Croyle does, he carries no more risk to us than any other undrafted free agent, bringing him in would allow us to release or trade off Damon Huard (who is not in our long-term plans) or Tyler Thigpen (who has done little to impress during his time with the Chiefs), and should Beck turn out to be a decent starting quarterback in the NFL we'll likely have pulled off the steal of the 2008 season.
What are your thoughts?
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of Arrowhead Pride's writers or editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of Arrowhead Pride writers or editors.
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Good call!
I can hear Chris from yelling from India… “Take him and cut Huard!”
I would keep Huard over other veterans, including Favre.
And I’m a little concerned if Miami thinks he’s not their future.
Miami is probably trying to trade Beck, which would be quite the conversation with Carl after the presumably tense negotiations regarding Trent Green.
But yes, assuming we don’t give up a draft pick, take him! Thank Huard for his good work.
Knew it!
UCrawford’s a polygamist! I’ll give you Steve Young, but Ty Detmer and Jim McMahon? Also, while I hate the SEC regionalism as much as anyone, putting up “solid” numbers (to borrow an adjective) against schools like Tulsa and Utah State doesn’t blow me away.
That said, sure, why not? Huard’s a 2nd term backup and Thigpen’s not blowing anyone away. I don’t know if Arrowhead has room for all those wives, but maybe he can live in Independance. I don’t think it’s Farve getting panned by the Falcons but maybe he’s the 2nd coming of Ty Detmer? Fingers-crossed!
by Official Arrowhead Pride Parade on Aug 14, 2008 4:55 PM CDT reply actions
Polygamy Doubles Or Triples Your Chances Of Getting Laid On Any Given Night
McMahon was a solid quarterback who simply couldn’t stay healthy (never played a full season). Detmer was undersized and injury-prone as well, but he carved out a very respectable career for himself as a pro. Beck isn’t undersized, nor has he been injury-prone. The only real knock on him is that he’s 26 so he’s a little behind the curve for his age, but only by a couple of years so he’s not like Chris Weinke who came out of college at age 29 (when most QBs are nearing the end of their prime). I think he’s definitely worth a gamble as a waiver pickup.
Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.
Totally agree
Anyone can put up big numbers against small schools. Putting up respectible numbers against the best schools in college week in and week out is much more admirable in my opinion.
And I Was Understating His College Numbers
They were actually outstanding numbers, but when you adjust for conference they were still solid.
Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.
You know what would be great?
If Croyle had a fantastic year and Beck ended up out of football so we can quit this silly arguing about college statistics and how they (do not) relate to an NFL QB.
Anyways, aside from that I admit, I don’t know a lot about Beck. The Dolphins were horrible drafters last year (taking Ted Ginn instead of Brady Quinn?!?!?) so the fact that he was drafted in the 2nd round doesn’t necessarily tell me he was a good NFL QB prospect.
If Croyle fails, I’m open to options and just because Beck played badly on a horrible team doesn’t necessarily bother me. Just as long as the Chiefs coaches and player personnel guys are convinced he can be a good QB for the Chiefs. Not every QB that is a high draft pick is a good fit for every team.
Now Now
Don’t hate just because we’re not drinking the Croyle Kool-Aid yet. :) Beck is basically the same kind of prospect as Croyle at this point only with an apparent ability to stay healthy, so all I’m suggesting is that he’s a better backup for us than Thigpen and a better long-term gamble than Huard so he’s worth a roster spot if he’s put on waivers…not that he should knock Croyle immediately out of his starting slot.
Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.
Yes, I understood you
Your original post was just reminiscent of previous debates we’ve had. ;)
I’m all for bringing in more young QBs to have in the pipeline learning the offense and ready to go if their chance comes up. One thing I do NOT want is for us to be developing backup QBs. Every QB we bring in needs to be a potential starter in waiting. Worst thing that happens is we have a solid starter with a solid potential starter behind him that we can trade for picks and develop another.
Is Thigpen a potential starter? If not, we need to be willing to bump him if a better candidate comes along that could be. I’m not saying Beck is that guy, I know nothing about him. Im just saying philosophically, every young guy we bring in needs to have the ability to step into the starting position some day.
Beck Fits The "Potential Starter" Criteria
He’s young, he’s shown some promise, and he’s got a good pedigree…well, better than Thigpen’s anyway. Although Beck played in a weak conference, Thigpen played in a week division and was good but not great. Those guys never make it in the pros. Frankly, I think Beck’s got more potential to be a starter than Thigpen, and in case we think we can get a good deal for Huard he’s got some experience as a starter so he could potentially be a number 2 right now (which Thigpen has given no indication yet that he’s ready for).
Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.
Whoops
Meant “weak division” :)
Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.
Yes, you better get that week corrected...
Anyone who takes a shot at “uniformed columnist” better be careful to avoid his own typos. ;)
That was pretty funny. Good visual. I read right over it myself.
You’ve kinda been on a roll, like with that polygamist thing, too…
Like I Said, I've Got My Moments :)
I’ve had a lot of practice at making those kinds of observations and comments, being as I’m a brutally and unrepentantly sarcastic bastard in person :)
Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.
What's Really Funny, Though
Is that Gretz edited his mistake, but instead of changing the word from “uniformed” to “uninformed” (which would be the correct edit since he accused Whitlock of having no source for his speculation) he decided to call Whitlock “misinformed” (meaning one who has been deliberately misled or fed an untruth), so his column now implies that the Chiefs intentionally fed Whitlock an incorrect story regarding their thoughts on Sippio…which means that Gretz just called his master, King Carl, a liar.
Gretz is such a putz sometimes :)
Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.
Youth movement fallout
Hey DJ… Part of the reason we get bogged down in projections from college stats is that we have a team full of players without NFL experience. :) It’ll be great when these guys are veterans like Bowe and we don’t have to rely on what-ifs and could-be’s. Course, then why would we keep coming back to the blog?
Pretty Much
Kind of tough to evaluate someone’s potential when the sample size of what they’ve produced in the pros is either small or nonexistent.
Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.
Here we go again.
I would not be surprised in the least if someone suggested we resurrect Johnny Unitas to take fill the Chiefs quarterback position. Brodie is the Chiefs choice and we need to support this team.
Brodie is the guy
I don’t hear anyone really disputing that for 2008. What I hear (and support) in the Beck discussion is the fact that a team will carry two or three QBs, and should the third QB be a reliable veteran to have as a season stopgap? Or would that roster spot be better used for a potential starter to be ready three or four years from now (or sooner) if the current QB get injured?
Plus, I’m not sure if Johnny U would be able to see his receivers through all the bars they put on the face masks these days. He pretty much had an unobstructed view. :) Although…if you’ve got a way to get a few cells for some DNA… 2035 could be our year…
I Wasn't Saying Croyle Should Be Benched For Beck
So please don’t confuse what you think I’m trying to say with what I’m actually saying. What I’m saying is that I think Beck is a better QB (both currently and as a prospect) than Thigpen and has more long-term potential than Huard, so he ought to be put in one of their roster spots…not Croyle’s. I’ve never said he should replace Croyle as the starter this season, just that he’s a decent low-risk/potentially high-payoff insurance policy, so in case Croyle doesn’t develop or gets hurt and the Chiefs decide to go in a different direction we’ve got another young QB already working within the system and we don’t have to start over from scratch.
Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.
Nobody is saying we get someone to replace Brodie before he's had a chance
I’m the biggest Croyle supporter there is, but it would be irresponsible for this team to not continue looking for talented QBs until they have a proven guy.
I personally think Croyle can do very well and be the first franchise QB since Len Dawson. However, I also know that Croyle has a shaky injury history and that it doesn’t matter if he has a Pro Bowl year, there seems to be a higher than average chance that he could get knocked out for a couple of games. With two serious knee injuries in his past, there is the potential of him getting knocked out for a long period of time.
I sincerely hope that never happens, but if it does, or if it turns out Croyle cannot perform at an NFL level for whatever reason, we MUST have another young guy with starting potential waiting in the wings just in case.
Better criteria
Seems like we Chiefs fans have caught on to the fact players are better candidates for our team if they are less than about 27 years old.
What would be even more cool is if we could start to figure out the type of QB that would excel with Chan and his system. To some degree, that’s circular logic because Chan seems to be great at taking any player and utilizing their strengths. But on a simple scale, I’m talking about the degree of mobility, their intelligence level, ability to throw on the run, ability to make progressive reads, quickness of release and so forth. Herm mentioned a while ago that not every player (such as a linebacker) fits a team’s scheme. A player who is right for one team may not be right for another.
I don’t know enough about Beck or what we are really looking for, but perhaps our group intelligence will be able to piece together the reasoning behind why a player would be a good Chief or not.
I Hyperlinked To Beck's Stats
Both college and pro. The links are in the post.
Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.
As to the overall question...
Yes, I would definately say we should pick him up if possible… However he is certainly not worth giving up much for…
McMahon was solid (hence the Superbowl ring on his finger) and Steve Young is HOF…all this arguing is silliness…
I Don't Think We Should Trade For Beck
Just pick him up if the Dolphins waive him, which reports have indicated they’re looking at doing. In that instance, we’d be getting him for free.
Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.
yea...
that’s what I was meaning to say…definately not trade for him…just pick him up off waivers if he falls to our position (not far down, lol)
I kinda like actually posting on this site…
Join the club!
I think most of us have ended up (and stayed) here because this is a great group of intelligent, passionate Chiefs fans.
This place feels like a Harvard think-tank compared to some forums (cough*cough* KC Star *cough*cough).
by Ochophosphate on Aug 15, 2008 8:19 AM CDT up reply actions
Beck > Thigpen
If it presented itself I would take Beck over Thigpen, especially if we can pick Beck up from waivers instead of a trade.
I think Huard is too valuable this year to let go. If Croyle goes down, I would trust Huard to at least manage the game respectably. He looked good last week vs. Chicago. After this season, I see no reason to keep him on.
If we can get Beck and let him develop as a #3 this season, then he should step to #2 next year and, if Crizzle falters this year, challenge for the #1.
Works For Me
I think that in the eventuality that Beck comes here, unless we could find a trade we liked for Huard then Thigpen would likely be the odd man out.
Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.
Veteran QBs are always valuable
We have until, what, week 6?
by Joel Thorman on Aug 15, 2008 9:08 AM CDT up reply actions
Yup
But most deals get done well before then. Teams want a player integrated into their system as early into the season as possible.
Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.
Yeah
I was thinking more along the lines of starter goes down, team needs back-up.
by Joel Thorman on Aug 15, 2008 10:12 AM CDT up reply actions
I have to disagree with the pack on this point
Having a veteran QB to keep your team from losing 5 straight games when your starter goes down in the midst of a playoff run makes perfect sense. But despite our unbridled optomism, the chances of the Chiefs being in such a situation is pretty far fetched. I’m not saying we don’t have the talent, but the fact is we have a brand new offense with a team where only a handful of players have been in the league longer than 3 years. There will be lots of rookie mistakes made.
So if we can all agree that THIS YEAR it is unlikely the Chiefs will end up in the playoffs and even more unlikely that they would be in a position to take on the elite teams of the league, what really is the NEED to have a 35 year old veteran QB who is not even really an ideal mentor since he spent his entire career as a 2nd or 3rd string backup? It would be different if he were 30 or 31 where he could reasonably have another 5 years in the league, and even more different if he had real NFL game experience. But he has neither quality.
Personally I would be just fine with going into this year with 3 young QBs. If we show vast improvment, we can always pick up a vet guy next year in case we are making a serious run. To me, Huard is just taking up a roster spot. Sure if he is brought in if something happens to Brodie, we might win one more game than we otherwise would have, but is going 8-8 instead of 7-9 really more valuable than beginning development on a 3rd young QB that could eventually turn out to be our franchise guy?
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