Peterson said that as of this morning, the sides were not close to a deal and had temporarily sus...

Peterson said that as of this morning, the sides were not close to a deal and had temporarily suspended contract talks. Dorsey is the highest unsigned draft pick. Peterson said Segal wanted to wait until more first-round picks had signed before they proceeded.

"Our comment to Glenn Dorsey’s agent was: Look it, since you don’t want to negotiate, we’re going to go to camp and get started," Peterson said. "When you want to negotiate, you know how to reach us, so give me a phone call."

Peterson addresses Dorsey's absence | Red Zone

27 days ago Chris Comment 34 comments 0 recs |

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Can't fault Peterson here

Looks like we might be waiting a while.

by primetime 07 on Jul 24, 2008 8:41 PM CDT reply reply 0 recs

He has done a great job so far

10 of 11 is great (merrit counts but doesn’t) Hopefully Dorsey’s agent can come to agreement sooner rather than later.

by KC FAN IN CA on Jul 24, 2008 9:09 PM CDT reply reply 0 recs

Not Carl Fault this time...Saints have same Problem...

here is what is going on with the saints and their draft pick….not good…if the jets overpaid we are screwed..

Saints general manager Mickey Loomis showed little optimism while trying to estimate how many practices the two rookies would miss, calling their absence a result of “outrageous” demands on the part of sports agents representing highly drafted rookies across the NFL.

“There’s been very little progress in the first round — period,” Loomis said. “It’s frustrating because I feel like it’s about the agents of these guys not wanting to look bad as opposed to any concern for getting the player in here and getting him acclimated and getting him going in the right way in his first year in the league.
“They’re all just waiting … not wanting to be embarrassed by a deal that gets done after they do their deal, and frankly, they’re looking for some huge increases,” Loomis added.

“They’ll do a deal if you want to give them some outrageous increase. I just don’t know any business that you hand out 20 percent, 30 percent increases every year. You’re not going to be in business very long if you do that.”

Ellis, a 6-foot-1, 307-pound defensive tackle out of Southern California, is expected to compete for a starting role on the defensive line right away following strong showings in rookie and mini camps.

by writer on Jul 24, 2008 9:13 PM CDT reply reply 0 recs

Link?

by primetime 07 on Jul 24, 2008 10:22 PM CDT up reply reply 0 recs

Here's a link. It's a story by the "other" AP

Top_2_picks_out_as_Saints_open_camp.html” target=”_blank”>http://www.examiner.com/a-1502612Top_2_picks_out_as_Saints_open_camp.html

Good find and post, writer! (For reasons of ethics and convenience we try to also insert a link if we’re quoting another source.) Agree with your assessment that Carl’s in a difficult spot and is doing as well as a GM can in this situation. Also with your insight that what other clubs do will make things a lot tougher for everyone, including us. Good work!

by sunny D on Jul 24, 2008 11:33 PM CDT up reply reply 0 recs

This link even =)

by KCFanatic on Jul 24, 2008 11:48 PM CDT up reply reply 0 recs

Show-off =)

Thanks.

by sunny D on Jul 24, 2008 11:53 PM CDT up reply reply 0 recs

My Only Gripe With Peterson In This

I think it was wrong of him to start airing his gripes with negotiations in the press, and I think it was particularly wrong to question Dorsey’s character simply because the guy hasn’t signed a contract. Holdouts happen because both parties can’t come to a consensus on worth, not because one or the other is evil. Yet for some reason whenever somebody doesn’t accept Peterson’s offer he feels he’s justified in going to the press and slamming them for it. That kind of behavior doesn’t help the team, it doesn’t usually help an agreement get made, and its only purpose is for Carl Peterson to cover his ass with the press (whose opinions don’t really matter all that much), the fans (who have generally been pretty forgiving considering how well he did with all the other draft picks) and ownership (who don’t need the media to get Peterson’s comments).

This is the kind of thing that keeps free agents from wanting to sign here by the way…not just a reputation for being cheap, but a willingness to throw people under the bus and insult them in the press if the player doesn’t agree to the GM’s offers.

Frankly, seeing the crack about Dorsey’s character got rid of quite a bit of the goodwill I felt towards Peterson after he got Albert signed.

Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.

by UCrawford on Jul 25, 2008 7:54 AM CDT reply reply 0 recs

What crack about Dorsey's character?

I must have missed it

by PVChiefsfan on Jul 25, 2008 8:42 AM CDT up reply reply 0 recs

In The KC Star Article On Albert's Signing

"He promised me," said Peterson, referring to Dorsey, "and he’s going to lose his bet that he’s going to be here on time. Branden won the bet.
"I think sometimes it shows a little bit about the character of the young man that he makes a commitment and stands by it."

I just thought it was completely bush league and petty…and it’s pretty typical of Peterson.

http://www.kansascity.com/sports/story/719554.html

Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.

by UCrawford on Jul 25, 2008 9:26 AM CDT up reply reply 0 recs

Didn't he also say

“I think Dorsey wants to be in training camp on time” ?

by PVChiefsfan on Jul 25, 2008 10:04 AM CDT up reply reply 0 recs

He's Trying To Nag Dorsey To Pressure His Agent To Sign Peterson's Offer

Which rarely ever happens. If the agent is holding Dorsey out, it’s because he thinks he can get more money in the contract. If Dorsey is unhappy with the progress of negotiations, he’ll tell his agent on his own to get cracking…it’s rarely a good idea for a third party to get involved. Peterson (or any GM) trying to sow dissent through the press like that will more likely have the opposite fact of hardening their resolve and causing bitterness…on the agent’s part because Peterson’s trying to make him lose face with his clients, on Dorsey’s part because he’s making Dorsey look like he’s a pawn.

Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.

by UCrawford on Jul 25, 2008 10:18 AM CDT up reply reply 0 recs

Bottom Line

It’s almost never a good idea for a GM to carry on contract negotiations through the press. It poisons the well with both the player you’re negotiating with and players who will negotiate with you in the future.

Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.

by UCrawford on Jul 25, 2008 10:23 AM CDT up reply reply 0 recs

Couldn't be more true

When the dirty laundry is aired in the press, watch out.

by Chris on Jul 25, 2008 11:02 AM CDT up reply reply 0 recs

Foot in mouth

I think Dorsey was obviously being optimistic when he said he would be at training camp on day 1. He really wants to be there. But he also needs to learn real quick that he can’t be making empty promises like that. If Dorsey made that promise in a public setting (I heard it on the radio so they got wind of it somehow), then I think it was appropriate for Carl to respond publicly.

by ChiefsDude on Jul 25, 2008 11:08 AM CDT up reply reply 0 recs

Dorsey May Have Been A Little Foolish

But Carl Peterson’s not a complete moron…he knows that what a player wants to do is completely meaningless until the contract is signed. He’s just twisting the knife with Dorsey and trying to cast him as being greedy with the fans, and it’s pointless and harmful to do so.

Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.

by UCrawford on Jul 25, 2008 11:17 AM CDT up reply reply 0 recs

And

It’s the agents who negotiate the contracts, not the players.

Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.

by UCrawford on Jul 25, 2008 11:18 AM CDT up reply reply 0 recs

Could a player

call the team and agree to a contract without his agent’s approval?

by PVChiefsfan on Jul 25, 2008 3:23 PM CDT up reply reply 0 recs

I Suppose They Could...

...if they wanted to get their player sued by his agent, to piss off every other agent who represents NFL players, turn almost every future negotiation with players hostile, and guarantee that they’ll never get another premier free agent without paying through the nose because everyone will know that they don’t operate in good faith. All assuming that the player is actually open to such an arrangement and won’t tell them where to shove their backdoor play (which is more likely than the player screwing his agent and insuring that he’ll have trouble getting another good one).

Basically, it would be a really horrible idea. The agents are the representatives of those players for a reason and with few exceptions they actually are acting in the players’ best interests. GMs like to call the agents “greedy” to try and get leverage in negotiations but in reality they’re just trying to negotiate the best possible deal for their client because that’s how they get future clients. Agents who are acting in a manner that screws their client eventually get found out and dumped.

Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.

by UCrawford on Jul 25, 2008 4:12 PM CDT up reply reply 0 recs

Unless Of Course That Agent Is Like Master P

And seriously has no clue what he’s doing. He got Ricky Williams signed by New Orleans by negotiating a team-friendly contract that was all incentives, which the fans loved and which ended up being horrible for Williams when he got hurt and got paid almost nothing. As fans we may get frustrated when athletes hold out because they’re trying to get a better deal for themselves, but we’re not the ones who have to face the prospect of a career ending (and possibly catastrophic) injury every time we go to work and a career that usually ends after two or three years.

That’s why Master P’s career as an agent pretty much ended after he botched Ricky Williams’ deal…because when you don’t look out for your clients eventually nobody else will want to sign with you. So unless Dorsey on his own decides to submarine his agent, there’s no point in the team trying to go around the agent because the player is likely not interested.

Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.

by UCrawford on Jul 25, 2008 4:35 PM CDT up reply reply 0 recs

clarification

I heard a sports announcer say that Dorsey was committed to being to camp on time. For all I know, he heard that from CP to begin with, in which case, I would be in total agreement with you, UCrawford.

by ChiefsDude on Jul 25, 2008 11:20 AM CDT up reply reply 0 recs

Nobody Twists The Knife With Reporters Quite Like Carl

It’s one of the reasons I really can’t stand the guy as our GM. Honestly, I think the main reason he does it isn’t so much because he thinks it gives him a leg up in negotiations but because he feels some need to rationalize his actions and he thinks the fans will side with him if he makes the other side look like greedy pricks. And nobody likes to be made to look like a greedy prick, so over time it becomes a self-defeating strategy, particularly with free agents. And it gives me the impression that Carl Peterson is someone who is ruled by his insecurities.

Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.

by UCrawford on Jul 25, 2008 12:07 PM CDT up reply reply 0 recs

Agreed. If Dorsey isn't in camp by middle of next week...

The fans are gonna want Carl’s head. Yes he signed all the lower draft picks, but you don’t trade away Jared Allen just to let his presumptive replacement rot in negotiations. I have two words for you Arrowhead Pride. RYAN SIMS.

by mchief on Jul 25, 2008 12:19 PM CDT up reply reply 0 recs

Not Much Of A Comparison

Sims wasn’t close to Dorsey’s class as a college player or a pro prospect. If Dorsey had been taken with the top overall pick, nobody would have batted an eye. The same wasn’t true of Sims.

As for the negotiations, Peterson’s done what he’s supposed to do…he made an offer which the agent then refused to counter because he’s waiting to see what the picks taken after Dorsey get. The only thing Peterson’s really done wrong here is taking his gripes to the press. Beyond that I think he’s done pretty well this offseason and the Dorsey delay isn’t really on him.

Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.

by UCrawford on Jul 25, 2008 12:39 PM CDT up reply reply 0 recs

ridiculous

so….
King Carl has a long and storied history of protracted and ugly contract negotiations, and we’re just supposed to sit here and believe that he’s not complicit in Dorsey not being in camp on time?

The #4 and #6 picks are signed now…just slot him in already!
6 years, 60 mil, 24 guaranteed
boom
I mean, we are banking on this guy being the keystone of our defense for the next decade, right?

by stag on Jul 25, 2008 1:35 PM CDT reply reply 0 recs

The Story Is

That he’s holding out for more than slotted money.

Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.

by UCrawford on Jul 25, 2008 2:33 PM CDT up reply reply 0 recs

We're still talking about...

“the story” from Carl Peterson’s mouth, correct? Sorry if I’m not buying what he’ selling.

by stag on Jul 25, 2008 3:09 PM CDT up reply reply 0 recs

Peterson Claimed He Didn't Make A Counter-Offer

And the agent didn’t rebut that, which is usually a good indication that it’s true. And given how efficiently they’ve signed the other 10 draft picks this year I’m willing to give Peterson the benefit of the doubt this season that Dorsey’s side is the one holding things up, which would be understandable from Dorsey’s perspective…they’re just trying to get the best deal possible.

The only real problem I had was Peterson’s willingness to air this out in the press. It’s a self-defeating strategy.

Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.

by UCrawford on Jul 25, 2008 4:17 PM CDT up reply reply 0 recs

I'm with ya U, on both sides of this situation

Doggone it. Carl was doing such a good job as measured by succesfully signing 90% of the guys. Then he just slips in these little digs. You were right to call him on it. I’m with ya in that it may be insecurities. I don’t think he does it to be mean. And I’m sure it’s intentional as a strategy to create pressure, which he believes is helping. He just can’t help himself. Because at the same time, I think he genuinely likes most of his players as people. Although not all, cuz I get the impression he’ll hold a grudge.

Anyway, mellow out in your old age, Carl. Be comfortable keeping things behind the scenes that should be kept behind the scenes. You were this close to basking in some praise this year. Rats.

by sunny D on Jul 25, 2008 4:55 PM CDT up reply reply 0 recs

Agreed

I don’t see how CP could avoid commenting on the agent passing on the contract offer and declining to negotiate until more players have been signed with how he’s been portrayed in the media in regards to signings, however the personal slights against Dorsey are certainly uncalled for, everything UC has said is right on… CP almost took the high road here, and then just couldn’t help veering off lol…

by KCFanatic on Jul 25, 2008 6:27 PM CDT up reply reply 0 recs

Dorsey

The agent is trying to get more money one becasue thats how he gets bigger and better clients but….two…. because the more money Dorsey makes the more money the agent makes plain and simple….. This guy is trying to make an extra buck and that ticks me off!

by IamtheGreatest on Jul 25, 2008 6:25 PM CDT reply reply 0 recs

Why?

If the agent earns more money for his client, he deserves to be paid more money in commission. And earning more money for his client is what he’s supposed to be doing.

Honestly, I don’t get this whole bitterness thing that some people have where they think people who are highly compensated for what they do are somehow evil and wrong. Last I checked, this was America, where people have a right to try and make the best possible life for themselves. Last I checked no one was forced to accept whatever salary their boss offers them if they feel it’s too low. If Dorsey (and the agent who he hired, of his own free will, to represent his interests) don’t want to accept the Chiefs’ salary offer, that’s their right. If the Chiefs don’t want to pay what Dorsey and his agent want, that’s their right. Neither side is evil or wrong for simply trying to get the best deal for themselves.

Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.

by UCrawford on Jul 25, 2008 6:42 PM CDT up reply reply 0 recs

There's a point at which the holdout period starts to hurt the earnings

There’s a slight difference in the interests of the agent and the interests of the player. Both want the most money. And so the agent’s interests are mostly aligned with the player. At some point, however, the fact that a football player doesn’t get to camp in time to be effective (or possibly a starter) in his first year could have long term ramifications for his career and subsequent contracts. Will long holdouts hurt QBs Quinn and Russell? Would they have started for the Browns and Raiders if they had been at camp on day one? Not sure. Will they still rise to prominence? Not sure. Would Ryan Sims’ career gone differently if he had been to camp on day one? Actually, I doubt it in his particular case because it appears his lack of motivation and diminuitive talent would have been revealed over time anyway. (Didn’t make a very convincing case, did I? ha)

But I have to believe there comes a point where the agent is still trying to squeeze the most out of the initial contract - both because of the immediate payday and because of bragging rights that he “beat the slotted money” so he can get more clients next year - while the player reaches a point that he needs to be in camp to get his career off on the right foot. If you give up a starting position the first year, I think there could be a psychological label of “reserve” that may be harder to overcome. He loses playing time from which he can learn. And it becomes much harder to get lucractive endorsements if you’ve got a clean jersey all season, like Quinn or Russell.

I realize people like LJ can still blossom after being on the bench a while. But not everyone is so fortunate. All I’m saying is that a holdout period starts to become an income-sapper at some point for the player, but not as much for the agent. Commission payments help align the best interests of the agent and the player, but not completely.

Imo, Dorsey’s holdout won’t hurt anybody very much if it doesn’t last more than a week. He’ll be ready, motivated and will be able to learn his job. The biggest risk from a one-week holdout in his case would be injury because everyone else’s tempo is a week ahead, or he’ll enter a preseason game without enough toughening up.

by sunny D on Jul 25, 2008 9:31 PM CDT up reply reply 0 recs

Agreed

For the record, I think that Dorsey’s agent is being a little ridiculous if he’s holding out for a lot more money than the preceding draft picks got. And I suspect that he’ll probably end up taking the Chiefs offer (or a reasonable counter well below what they seem to be aiming at). My point, though, was that this was going to happen even if Peterson hadn’t taken digs at Dorsey’s character in the press. Contract negotiations are just business, not personal…but Peterson never seems to have a problem blurring that line to take cheap shots at agents or players even though history has shown it doesn’t help him get his picks into camp on time faster than anyone else.

And I also agree about Sims…I don’t think missed time in camp was the issue, I think it was attitude and talent level that were more relevant. Dorsey I’m not too worried about, even if he misses a couple of weeks. We’re not competing for a Super Bowl this year, it’s a rebuilding season and he’ll have plenty of time to catch up to speed. Like you said, the only real concern is injury, but the Chiefs can address that easily during games by limiting his playing time early on (until he gets into game shape) if they’re overly concerned that he’ll get hurt.

As for Segal, he seems like a hard-nosed but relatively sharp agent who’s got a decent reputation for getting deals for his players. I suspect that part of the reason he’s being difficult this season is that it appears to be a down year for salaries so he’s seeing if he can buck the trend. But I think he’ll get Dorsey into camp within a couple of weeks…at least as long as Peterson refrains from bashing him in the press (which causes him to lose face and increases the incentive for him to continue to hold out so he doesn’t look weak to potential new clients).

Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.

by UCrawford on Jul 26, 2008 1:06 AM CDT up reply reply 0 recs