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Chiefs' New Middle Linebacker...Derrick Johnson

From the FanPosts. I'm taking my DJ FanShot off the front page. -Chris

The Kansas City Chiefs decided to try and fix the gaping black hole that is our linebacking corps this week by moving Derrick Johnson from his weak-side linebacker spot and putting him at middle linebacker for the remainder of the season.

Johnson will move from the outside to middle linebacker for Sunday’s game at Denver and the other three remaining games.

This appears to be as much an admission that Derrick Johnson's been a major disappointment on the weakside as it is the Chiefs admitting that they've got nobody on the roster who can play in the middle. 

The Chiefs are not only hopeful of getting more from their underachieving linebacker, who’s had a disappointing season. They would also like to get more from their middle linebacker spot, which has been shared this season by Pat Thomas and Rocky Boiman.

Funny, but I seem to recall us signing a middle linebacker just last year to a long-term deal, after which he led the team in tackles.  I wonder what happened that that guy?  Oh that's right...our genius defensive coordinator insisted on micromanaging the linebacking corps and decided that the guy with the most tackles on the team last year wasn't good enough to play for him this year.  Which goes a long way towards explaining why our defense (ranked 13th last year) has plunged to the bottom of the NFL.

DeMorrio Williams, Boiman, Thomas, and whoever else are expected to compete for Johnson's old weakside spot.  Hopefully Williams will step up.  It would be nice to get something positive out of our big free agent signing this year.

And here's a couple of interesting questions...does this move mean that Johnson is projected to be our MLB next season and if so does that effectively remove Rey Maualuga and James Laurinitis from our draft boards?

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of Arrowhead Pride's writers or editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of Arrowhead Pride writers or editors.

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Jul 2008 from Rock M Nation - 1 comment

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What's wrong with this move?

Yeah, we never should have been here in the first place but we are. It is what it is. So, why not switch some things up and see what happens?

by primetime 07 on Dec 3, 2008 3:55 PM CST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Will they try some blitzes

From the middle with him or will he mainly be there for pass coverage? What does this say for his future?

At least 10-6 next year taking our division, or Herm goes.

by Eric Allen on Dec 3, 2008 4:08 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

As of now

It appears to be an experimental move. Hey, if it works, great. If not, then we’re back to where we were earlier today – in need of a MLB.

by primetime 07 on Dec 3, 2008 4:35 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

We are definately in a position to try anything.

At this point DJ is the best and most talented linebacker on the roster…….Why not. At least Gun is finished with playing safeties at corner.

Indecision is the key to flexibility

by cmpotter on Dec 4, 2008 8:51 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I think they are wanting a look

So they know how to draft.

There are a couple of good MLB prospects this year but they have a lot of other needs as well. If DJ can handle the MLB spot, it would free up a high pick for another position (pass rush DE, QB, etc).

by ChiefDJ on Dec 3, 2008 5:07 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I seen that the

Pats picked up Roosevelt Colvin today, was he out there when we needed linebacker help, and not even look at him?

At least 10-6 next year taking our division, or Herm goes.

by Eric Allen on Dec 3, 2008 4:09 PM CST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Colvin has been out there a long while...

Lame, I know… but oh well. Maybe a move like this will help D.J. become the leader that everyone expected him to. Now he’ll be a lot more vocal on and off the field.

I also hope for D.Will- to step up. And take D.J.‘s spot. Boiman should do fine on the outside. Anyone know Donnie’s situation??

(BART SCOTT 2009!)

by ROC 27 on Dec 3, 2008 4:12 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Colvin used to play with the Pats

So he knows their system. The MLB, a lot of times, is the guy with the radio in his helmet calling the plays. I’m no expert, but I imagine it would be extremely difficult to replace someone like that mid-season.

by primetime 07 on Dec 3, 2008 4:36 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Napoleon Harris

was a bad fit for us. On paper he looked like he would fit perfectly in our system, and on paper he played pretty well for us. But he doesn’t have any instincts and couldn’t maintain his gaps. The only time you ever noticed Harris was when the ball carrier was already 8 yards from the line of scrimmage.

by JayrodT on Dec 3, 2008 4:10 PM CST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Yeah

I read an article from Mike Lombardi (who was against drafting Harris while he was with the Raiders) that questioned where he was making all those tackles. The answer was downfield.

by primetime 07 on Dec 3, 2008 4:37 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

But He Still Made Tackles

The Chiefs front seven can’t even do that these days.

The Chiefs should win 5 to 6 games this year and no less than 4 for this season to be considered progress in any way. If he can't win at least 9 games next season, Herm's a joke.

by UCrawford on Dec 3, 2008 4:54 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

And I'm Not Claiming Harris Was A Good Linebacker

But getting rid of him without having a replacement in mind was stupidity.

The Chiefs should win 5 to 6 games this year and no less than 4 for this season to be considered progress in any way. If he can't win at least 9 games next season, Herm's a joke.

by UCrawford on Dec 3, 2008 4:54 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

When did we get rid of him?

Do you remember? I want to know if it was around training camp when we got the idea in our heads that Pat Thomas was a starting MLB.

by primetime 07 on Dec 3, 2008 4:59 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

During The Regular Season

Like Week 2 or so as I recall…I don’t think we ever activated him but he was on the roster after training camp.

The Chiefs should win 5 to 6 games this year and no less than 4 for this season to be considered progress in any way. If he can't win at least 9 games next season, Herm's a joke.

by UCrawford on Dec 3, 2008 5:00 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Yup

Released him October 14.

The Chiefs should win 5 to 6 games this year and no less than 4 for this season to be considered progress in any way. If he can't win at least 9 games next season, Herm's a joke.

by UCrawford on Dec 3, 2008 5:01 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Just saw it too

That’s right…right before the trading deadline.

by primetime 07 on Dec 3, 2008 5:03 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

No

That doesn’t seem right at all. I could have swore we cut Nap Harris after the trade deadline which would had been after Week 6. I remember because I thought it originally was a stupid idea when it happened being as that he didn’t even step on the field this year.

by KansasCityShuffle on Dec 3, 2008 5:03 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

You can say whatever you want about him last year

but saying he wasn’t a right fit remains to be seen being as that he didn’t even get a single minute this year

by KansasCityShuffle on Dec 3, 2008 5:04 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

The trading deadline is October 16th

And he was released on the 14th. That probably means no one was interested in giving anything up for him. Then he went to the waiver wire where a team in the middle of the pack picked him up which means a cluster of teams passed on him (for free this time) again.

by primetime 07 on Dec 3, 2008 5:10 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

So when we released him

We did so thinking there was someone there to replace him which obviously isn’t the case…

by primetime 07 on Dec 3, 2008 5:03 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

And After

We’d gotten manhandled several times so we could see Thomas’ deficiencies. Harris wasn’t that good, but the Chiefs really bungled that entire deal with him this year.

The Chiefs should win 5 to 6 games this year and no less than 4 for this season to be considered progress in any way. If he can't win at least 9 games next season, Herm's a joke.

by UCrawford on Dec 3, 2008 5:12 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I also dont think...

Nap was too great… But I DO think that he was a lot better than freakin’ Pat Thomas.

by ROC 27 on Dec 3, 2008 5:30 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

It's not about this year

People keep forgetting that this year was less about trying to win as many games as possible as it was about trying to get things sorted out.

Crawford will tell you it was an enormous bungle to cut Harris because he was maybe slightly better than Pat Thomas. That doesn’t matter.

They apparently decided early in training camp combined with what they saw last year that Harris wasn’t part of the future so they wanted to see what Pat Thomas could do.

The fact that Thomas wasn’t an upgrade does not mean that it was total failure. They eliminated another candidate rather than sticking with a guy that they had already decided wasn’t going to be part of the future just because he would be slightly better. They now are moving on to trying DJ at that position.

Moving guys around and experimenting in a rebuilding year is not a sign of failure or incompetence. It is trying to sort through limited talent and trying to find guys that can get the job done even if that was not their original position rather than sticking with guys that you already know can’t

by ChiefDJ on Dec 3, 2008 5:38 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

That makes sense

I just didnt get why they played Pat for so long when it was obvious to SO MANY that he wasnt working.

by ROC 27 on Dec 3, 2008 5:57 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Some guys take time to develop

MLB is a position of a lot of responsibility in our defense.

We are looking at this season under the prism of each and every game and are suffering with each loss, but there is no reason for snap decisions when you are looking at the big picture long term.

If they had said that after the Atlanta game Thigpen didn’t deserve another chance this year because he had played so horribly, we would have never found out that he’s much better than he played in that game.

by ChiefDJ on Dec 3, 2008 6:05 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Not saying we need more time to evaluate Thomas

I think we saw enough of him to know he’s not the answer at starting MLB.

Just meant that playing him for half a season to see how he would develop when we didn’t really have any better options behind him was not a horrible thing.

by ChiefDJ on Dec 3, 2008 6:06 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Agreed...

Kinda…

Its hard for me to compare Thigpen’s situation with the Pat Thomas experiment.
Tyler Thigpen showed inability to play 1 and a 1/2 games.
Pat Thomas showed he couldnt tackle for 8 games. It was pretty pretty clear after a FEW games..

But I see what youre saying.

by ROC 27 on Dec 3, 2008 6:11 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Brian Urlacher

I thought of him instantly when I read this story. He was drafted to be an outside linebacker but was so bad that he lost his starting position to,ironically, Roosevelt Colvin (i think). Then the bears middle linebacker got hurt and the rest is history.

I’m not saying that DJ is Urlacher, but it can’t hurt any to move him around. Middle linebacker should force him to make more plays because he will be involved in more plays, in theory anyway.

by schraggyj on Dec 3, 2008 4:11 PM CST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Who knows...

Maybe D.J. will excel taking up this kinda role.

by ROC 27 on Dec 3, 2008 4:25 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I don't think that this...

removes our need for Maualuga or Laurinitis.

by ROC 27 on Dec 3, 2008 4:24 PM CST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

+1000.

Even if DJ dominates life at MLB, we still need to at least consider them. And if DJ is merely average or even poor at MLB, then it becomes almost a more pressing issue IMO.

by rockchalk on Dec 3, 2008 7:17 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Yes

Really. First Kawika Mitchell, then Nap Harris, then Pat Thomas, then Boiman, and now DJ. All OLB’s (except Nap) we’re trying to convert to MLB’s. Why not Edwards? Oh thats right….we gave a huge contract to someone who’s so old he can’t even remain healthy enough to play. Pathetic……just pathetic

by KansasCityShuffle on Dec 3, 2008 5:08 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Gotcha...

I see your point. But lets see how this plays out before we get to rattled up.

by ROC 27 on Dec 3, 2008 5:28 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

If you recall back in when Gunther was here the first time.

He wanted to draft college safeties and turn them into corners because of there size. Didn’t work then just like taking outside linebackers and putting them in the middle. Speed is nice, but you still need some size there. Hopefully it will work……We still need a true backer in the middle.

Indecision is the key to flexibility

by cmpotter on Dec 4, 2008 8:58 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Love this move

I’ve been a huge D.J. fan ever since he came to the Chiefs and have wanted him moved to the middle ever since he got here. On the issue of Harris, it was the right move to drop him even if we didn’t have a replacement. Remember, we are REBUILDING. If you have old, decrepit players who can’t cut it in a rebuilding organization, you drop them and plug in anyone else that you have in hopes that they can be the answer.

by ArrowheadRed5658 on Dec 3, 2008 5:32 PM CST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I still do not get

The first year of rebuilding, this defense has been worked on for years. Look at all the first day picks on it. Now that the offense is finally getting some attention, we are rebuilding?

At least 10-6 next year taking our division, or Herm goes.

by Eric Allen on Dec 3, 2008 6:14 PM CST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

No....we were officially rebuilding when we decide to trade Jared Allen.

Also when we cut a shit ton of veterans. I think Herm is going to get to stay……Gunther on the other hand……Fired!!!!

Indecision is the key to flexibility

by cmpotter on Dec 4, 2008 9:31 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I Think Eric's Point Is

That the Chiefs can’t claim this is year one of rebuilding their defense because they’ve been drafting to rebuild their defense ever since Gunther got back here in 2004. And none of those first day draft picks they’ve dedicated to defensive players have turned into impact players. So I believe he’s wondering why Herm gets a pass for having a crappy defense when it’s been in rebuild mode for five seasons and he’s been in charge for three of those.

The Chiefs should win 5 to 6 games this year and no less than 4 for this season to be considered progress in any way. If he can't win at least 9 games next season, Herm's a joke.

by UCrawford on Dec 4, 2008 9:44 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Again,

This is the first year since Gun’s return that the D has not improved. They dumped a lot of veterans and we are starting a ton of 1st, 2nd, and 3rd years players.

That being said, we still should be better than we are, but I believe it is a blip on what has otherwise been a steady improvement on the defense.

by NJChiefsFan on Dec 4, 2008 9:51 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Agree on the last two posts

"But what do I know, I’m like an empty room with a large ECHO"

by Lanier63 on Dec 4, 2008 9:57 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Improvement
This is the first year since Gun’s return that the D has not improved.

So what? He’s got plenty of young players who were drafted by our team with high picks during his time here and the only ones who seem to be playing decently are the rookies. Where’s Hali’s improvement? Where’s Derrick Johnson’s improvement? Where’s McBride’s or Tyler’s improvement? This is who the team is supposed to be “rebuilding” around, the team invested high picks in all of those guys and they all stink. Why should we give Gunther the benefit of the doubt with rebuilding the defense when most of the players he’s supposed to be teaching aren’t getting any better?

Having your defense fall apart because you got rid of some old guys isn’t an acceptable performance from the defensive coordinator. Having a defense that allows the team to get blown out (losses of 10 points or more) in half of your games isn’t acceptable performance from the defensive coordinator. Failing to develop most of your highly touted young players isn’t an acceptable performance from your defensive coordinator.

Gunther’s not coaching an expansion team here and he’s not starting from scratch this season on rebuilding the defense, and it’s ridiculous that people are treating him like he is.

That being said, we still should be better than we are, but I believe it is a blip on what has otherwise been a steady improvement on the defense.

I can understand your point, but going from a mediocre defense to a horrifically bad defense isn’t a blip…it’s a collapse. Especially when few of the core players on the defense are showing signs that they’ll be much better next year.

The Chiefs should win 5 to 6 games this year and no less than 4 for this season to be considered progress in any way. If he can't win at least 9 games next season, Herm's a joke.

by UCrawford on Dec 4, 2008 10:09 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I think the following players are showing signs they'll be better next year

Carr
Flowers
Leggett
Pollard
Dorsey

That’s almost half of our defensive starters…

by PVChiefsfan on Dec 4, 2008 10:18 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Four Of Those Five Players Are Rookies

They’re talented athletes, but they look promising mainly because they’re young. And, as noted with Hali, DJ, McBride, and Tyler, rookies on this team have a habit of not getting any better (Tyler, McBride, DJ) or of regressing (Hali). So while I think Dorsey is playing well for a rookie, the history of this defense under Gunther’s reign has shown that there’s a very good chance that Dorsey is right now playing about as well as he ever will.

And what does it say about the job the defensive coordinator’s doing when the only players who seem to progress are defensive backs (Pollard, Page) which just so happens to be the area the head coach specializes in?

The Chiefs should win 5 to 6 games this year and no less than 4 for this season to be considered progress in any way. If he can't win at least 9 games next season, Herm's a joke.

by UCrawford on Dec 4, 2008 10:44 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Hali hasn't regressed.

He was out of position. He was fine where he was. He is playing through injuries this year. Pollard and Page are a good question I think you answered that yourself. The secondary is getting better because of Herm not Gunther…..obviously.

I really believe Gun loses his job at the end of the year. Unfortunately one of the best D-coordinators in the league will probably go coach with his son in Tennessee next year.

Indecision is the key to flexibility

by cmpotter on Dec 4, 2008 10:50 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

How Many Sacks Has He Made Since He Moved Back To His "Good" Position Several Games Ago

One.

That’s regression.

The Chiefs should win 5 to 6 games this year and no less than 4 for this season to be considered progress in any way. If he can't win at least 9 games next season, Herm's a joke.

by UCrawford on Dec 4, 2008 10:51 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

There is a difference between a bad year and regression.

Hard to get a sack when we constantly rush four and our tackles get no push.

Indecision is the key to flexibility

by cmpotter on Dec 4, 2008 10:54 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Hard To Get A Sack When You Can't Beat Backup Tackles Either

Hali has gotten manhandled this season by backups as well. He’s not a victim of the problems with this defense, he’s a contributor to the problems with this defense.

The Chiefs should win 5 to 6 games this year and no less than 4 for this season to be considered progress in any way. If he can't win at least 9 games next season, Herm's a joke.

by UCrawford on Dec 4, 2008 10:58 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Who?

Just curious, which backups has Hali played against this year?

by KansasCityShuffle on Dec 4, 2008 11:39 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Raiders

He went up against their backup left tackle. There was another one too…can’t remember which team but it was about the same timeframe.

The Chiefs should win 5 to 6 games this year and no less than 4 for this season to be considered progress in any way. If he can't win at least 9 games next season, Herm's a joke.

by UCrawford on Dec 4, 2008 11:50 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

may have been Atlanta

"But what do I know, I’m like an empty room with a large ECHO"

by Lanier63 on Dec 4, 2008 12:24 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

It was Atlanta

and in both of those cases, he was playing RDE instead of LDE…to my knowledge, he has not faced any back-ups since moving back to the left side.

by PVChiefsfan on Dec 4, 2008 12:38 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

That's Right

Sam Baker was out.

The Chiefs should win 5 to 6 games this year and no less than 4 for this season to be considered progress in any way. If he can't win at least 9 games next season, Herm's a joke.

by UCrawford on Dec 4, 2008 12:49 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Nonetheless

He’s a third year starter playing against a backup tackle…he should not be disappearing against that level of competition no matter how uncomfortable he is on the right side.

The Chiefs should win 5 to 6 games this year and no less than 4 for this season to be considered progress in any way. If he can't win at least 9 games next season, Herm's a joke.

by UCrawford on Dec 4, 2008 12:50 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

You know? We should just fire every veteran on the defense.

It seems that is where you are coming from.

Indecision is the key to flexibility

by cmpotter on Dec 4, 2008 1:01 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

My Position Would Be

That we should fire every coach on defense (and the head coach). I don’t think that the underachieving players I’ve mentioned are talentless. I think that the coaching staff doesn’t have a clue of how to utilize the talents they do have.

The Chiefs should win 5 to 6 games this year and no less than 4 for this season to be considered progress in any way. If he can't win at least 9 games next season, Herm's a joke.

by UCrawford on Dec 4, 2008 1:14 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

But I Am Convinced That Hali Is A Bust

Even a player being misused shouldn’t be this bad.

The Chiefs should win 5 to 6 games this year and no less than 4 for this season to be considered progress in any way. If he can't win at least 9 games next season, Herm's a joke.

by UCrawford on Dec 4, 2008 1:15 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

2 Words Jared Allen

The main thing to consider imo is that Jared Allen isn’t there. I think that Allen created alot of oppurtunities for Hali.

KC Tat Guy

by KC Tat Guy on Dec 6, 2008 12:10 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

And That's Not To Say

That every other player drafted who underachieved is a bust…just that they produce like busts and that we’ll never find out how good they are until we get rid of the incompetent coaching.

The Chiefs should win 5 to 6 games this year and no less than 4 for this season to be considered progress in any way. If he can't win at least 9 games next season, Herm's a joke.

by UCrawford on Dec 4, 2008 1:20 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I saw that somewhere

had my name on the bottom…lol

"But what do I know, I’m like an empty room with a large ECHO"

by Lanier63 on Dec 4, 2008 1:21 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

P.S.

Manhandled? You’re overboard, brother. As I’ve expressed to you several times before Hali is the ONLY one on the line generating penetration. He many not be registering sacks, but to say he’s getting “manhandled” implies he never gets off the line. Which to me sounds like you haven’t been watching Hali as closely as you project

by KansasCityShuffle on Dec 4, 2008 11:40 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Manhandled

He’s on pace for 44 tackles this year (continuing his clear pattern of regression since his rookie season). I can’t find stats for tackles for loss but I’m willing to be they’re pretty underwhelming (they’re out there somewhere because I found them once before when pointing out that Hali’s TFL numbers had also regressed).

As I’ve expressed to you several times before Hali is the ONLY one on the line generating penetration.

So what? He plays on the worst pass-rushing defensive line in NFL history and he’s supposed to be one generating the pass-rush. If you want to make the case he’s not getting manhandled, compare him to the average starting defensive lineman and see how he stacks up.

The Chiefs should win 5 to 6 games this year and no less than 4 for this season to be considered progress in any way. If he can't win at least 9 games next season, Herm's a joke.

by UCrawford on Dec 4, 2008 11:59 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

One of the problems to all that is we don't blitz

I would assume the reason for that is we are protecting our young corners by dropping into zone.

Indecision is the key to flexibility

by cmpotter on Dec 4, 2008 12:24 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Jared Allen????

Hali got alot of sacks or tackles b/c the oppsing qb was trying to escape Jared Allen as well. I think Hali this year is closer to the real deal than his bloated stats of the Jared Allen paired years, just IMHO.

When deep space exploration ramps up, it'll be the corporations that name everything, the IBM Stellar Sphere, the Microsoft Galaxy, Planet Starbucks.

I'd be fine with 9-7 or 10-6 and competiting for the divsion title

by madtheory on Dec 4, 2008 12:26 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I think it has affected his stats yes

The loss of Allen has affected a lot of things……that is obvious.

Indecision is the key to flexibility

by cmpotter on Dec 4, 2008 12:32 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

It's Not Just Jared Allen

Allen had a solid but unspectacular season in 2006 and a stellar season in 2007. But Hali’s sacks dropped off during that time period, as did his tackles and his tackles for loss. He’s gone backwards as a player each year he’s been in the league and I don’t think it can all be put on the loss of Allen.

My personal conspiracy theory about this? I wonder how old Hali actually is.

The Chiefs should win 5 to 6 games this year and no less than 4 for this season to be considered progress in any way. If he can't win at least 9 games next season, Herm's a joke.

by UCrawford on Dec 4, 2008 12:46 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I want to see =)

Indecision is the key to flexibility

by cmpotter on Dec 4, 2008 1:00 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Just Saying

He’s from another country that’s got questionable record-keeping (since it’s been embroiled in civil war) and in case anyone remembers what happened in baseball post-9/11 it turns out that birth certificates from professional athletes from other countries can’t always be trusted to be accurate. :)

Although I realize that it’s kind of a longshot so I’m at least half-joking about it…maybe. :)

The Chiefs should win 5 to 6 games this year and no less than 4 for this season to be considered progress in any way. If he can't win at least 9 games next season, Herm's a joke.

by UCrawford on Dec 4, 2008 1:08 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

He refuses to show us his birth certificate

but his grandmother in Liberia says he was born in 1936 and had permanent hair coloring done. Something about the birth certificate being locked away in a safe in the Bahamas.

"But what do I know, I’m like an empty room with a large ECHO"

by Lanier63 on Dec 4, 2008 1:05 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

HAHAHA!!!

Hilarious. :)

The Chiefs should win 5 to 6 games this year and no less than 4 for this season to be considered progress in any way. If he can't win at least 9 games next season, Herm's a joke.

by UCrawford on Dec 4, 2008 1:09 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

That's the big one

very few teams have front fours solid enough to generate consistent pressure on their own (last year’s Giants, the Ravens, the Chiefs in the nineties =), the Vikings this year)…we don’t. And that is why I don’t understand why we haven’t strayed from the Cover 2 more. rushing 4 and dropping 7 is what the Cover 2 is all about

by PVChiefsfan on Dec 4, 2008 12:42 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Other Teams Run The Cover 2

They’re not as bad with it as we are.

So why can’t Gunther execute it? It’s a standard NFL defense. And more importantly, why can’t the Chiefs either find players who can execute it effectively or coach their players to do so?

I’m no fan of Herm, but I think that the problems with the Chiefs’ defense is as much about Gunther being an extremely overrated coordinator as it is about Herm’s preferred scheme.

The Chiefs should win 5 to 6 games this year and no less than 4 for this season to be considered progress in any way. If he can't win at least 9 games next season, Herm's a joke.

by UCrawford on Dec 4, 2008 12:48 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

The successful ones have good D-lines

Gunther never had great defenses if you look at his past.

Indecision is the key to flexibility

by cmpotter on Dec 4, 2008 12:53 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

+10000

i completely agree, oh and the year the Panthers played the Patriots in the SB they mostly only rushed their front four, but that been the problem all year on the defense HErm unwillingness to change from the Cover 2 to a defense more suited for our personnel.

When deep space exploration ramps up, it'll be the corporations that name everything, the IBM Stellar Sphere, the Microsoft Galaxy, Planet Starbucks.

I'd be fine with 9-7 or 10-6 and competiting for the divsion title

by madtheory on Dec 4, 2008 12:50 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

A trend like

the Cover 2 is only successful when you can avoid relying on the blitz to generate pressure on the QB? ya think?

by PVChiefsfan on Dec 4, 2008 12:56 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

+1

Who do most people think of when the cover two comes up…….Bucs. What or who did they have probowl linemen.

Indecision is the key to flexibility

by cmpotter on Dec 4, 2008 12:58 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

It improved the first two years he was here.

This year it tanked due to going young and injuries. Not to mention Crazy taking over the linebackers.

Indecision is the key to flexibility

by cmpotter on Dec 4, 2008 10:43 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

We've Been "Going Young" On Defense For Five Years

Excluding the rookies (whose improvement can’t be judged because this is only their first year), since Gunther returned as defensive coordinator we have drafted Junior Siavii, Keyaron Fox, Jared Allen, Derrick Johnson, Boomer Grigsby, Alphonso Hodge, Khari Long, Tamba Hali, Bernard Pollard, Marcus Maxey, Jarrard Page, Turk McBride, and Tank Tyler.

Now, if you were coaching the New York Giants, how many of those players would make it into your starting lineup?

The Chiefs should win 5 to 6 games this year and no less than 4 for this season to be considered progress in any way. If he can't win at least 9 games next season, Herm's a joke.

by UCrawford on Dec 4, 2008 10:56 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Thats kinda funny

That is an just about an entire defense, minus one CB I think.

"But what do I know, I’m like an empty room with a large ECHO"

by Lanier63 on Dec 4, 2008 10:58 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Maxey And Hodge Were Both Cornerbacks

Did they even take the field for this team?

The Chiefs should win 5 to 6 games this year and no less than 4 for this season to be considered progress in any way. If he can't win at least 9 games next season, Herm's a joke.

by UCrawford on Dec 4, 2008 10:59 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Maxey was actually promising until he was injured.

Not sure if you remembered that through all your pessimism. I wonder if you like anyone at all. :)

Indecision is the key to flexibility

by cmpotter on Dec 4, 2008 11:01 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I Liked Allen

Too bad Carl ran him off.

The Chiefs should win 5 to 6 games this year and no less than 4 for this season to be considered progress in any way. If he can't win at least 9 games next season, Herm's a joke.

by UCrawford on Dec 4, 2008 11:02 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

And "Promising"

Means nothing. If he was that promising he wouldn’t have been a fifth round pick.

The Chiefs should win 5 to 6 games this year and no less than 4 for this season to be considered progress in any way. If he can't win at least 9 games next season, Herm's a joke.

by UCrawford on Dec 4, 2008 11:03 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

He was a troubled player out of Miami

That caused him to drop. Draft position means nothing. We could go all day about second day picks who are success. He blew his knee and was never the same. After an injury like that you don’t play corner in the league to often.

Indecision is the key to flexibility

by cmpotter on Dec 4, 2008 11:05 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

But The Point Is

He didn’t turn into anything special as a player. And neither did most of the other defensive guys the Chiefs drafted.

When one guy doesn’t make it, that’s bad luck. When many guys (most of them first day picks) don’t make it, that means the team’s doing something wrong.

The Chiefs should win 5 to 6 games this year and no less than 4 for this season to be considered progress in any way. If he can't win at least 9 games next season, Herm's a joke.

by UCrawford on Dec 4, 2008 11:12 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Point taken.

There aren’t a lot of “special” players on any team. I still maintain Gunther is gone and who ever is brought in should do better. I see some good players on the defense. Poorly coached defense is the problem…..not to mention the plague has hit the team.

Indecision is the key to flexibility

by cmpotter on Dec 4, 2008 11:17 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Also losing one of the best Defensive ends in the league sucked

Hopefully we got a franchise LT and DT in the deal.

Indecision is the key to flexibility

by cmpotter on Dec 4, 2008 11:19 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I'm Skeptical About Gunther Will Be Fired

But I agree with you he should be gone and that it shouldn’t be too tough to replace him with someone who can do a better job.

not to mention the plague has hit the team

Are you saying that Arrowhead Stadium is infected with lice-carrying rodents? :)

Seriously, though, if you’re talking about the injuries I question how much of that has to do with the strength and conditioning program Herm’s running. The injuries combined with their tendency to fade in the second half of games makes me think that this is not a team that’s well-prepared physically to succeed in the NFL.

The Chiefs should win 5 to 6 games this year and no less than 4 for this season to be considered progress in any way. If he can't win at least 9 games next season, Herm's a joke.

by UCrawford on Dec 4, 2008 11:28 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Which?

Conditioning or hanging onto bad assistants too long?

The Chiefs should win 5 to 6 games this year and no less than 4 for this season to be considered progress in any way. If he can't win at least 9 games next season, Herm's a joke.

by UCrawford on Dec 4, 2008 12:04 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I will answer in the form of a question Alex

What is Herm’s historical problem?

Indecision is the key to flexibility

by cmpotter on Dec 4, 2008 12:14 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I could honestly see Gunther being demoted

Demoted to Linebacker coach. I don’t see them firing him either (although I think his time here should be done). There is something about the Chiefs front office that does not like firing coaches who have served them for long periods of time. And even if they are fired or let go, they keep coming back.

by Shawn on Dec 4, 2008 1:06 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

"just when I thought I was out

you keep pulling me back in"

Did I sound Italian?

"But what do I know, I’m like an empty room with a large ECHO"

by Lanier63 on Dec 4, 2008 1:07 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

what exactly has he done to

deserve being kept as a LB coach?

When deep space exploration ramps up, it'll be the corporations that name everything, the IBM Stellar Sphere, the Microsoft Galaxy, Planet Starbucks.

I'd be fine with 9-7 or 10-6 and competiting for the divsion title

by madtheory on Dec 4, 2008 1:09 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

You tell me

Just a gut feeling considering the way our organization works.

by Shawn on Dec 4, 2008 1:10 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Shawn's Not Saying He Deserves To Be Kept Around

He just thinks he will.

That’s why I’m skeptical that Gunther will get fired or demoted at all. I’m not saying it won’t happen, just that I don’t expect it.

The Chiefs should win 5 to 6 games this year and no less than 4 for this season to be considered progress in any way. If he can't win at least 9 games next season, Herm's a joke.

by UCrawford on Dec 4, 2008 1:12 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

i know

just asking a question?

When deep space exploration ramps up, it'll be the corporations that name everything, the IBM Stellar Sphere, the Microsoft Galaxy, Planet Starbucks.

I'd be fine with 9-7 or 10-6 and competiting for the divsion title

by madtheory on Dec 4, 2008 1:14 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

My Answer Would Be

Nothing. He’s done nothing to merit keeping his job next year, either as defensive coordinator or linebackers coach. Gunther should be fired.

The Chiefs should win 5 to 6 games this year and no less than 4 for this season to be considered progress in any way. If he can't win at least 9 games next season, Herm's a joke.

by UCrawford on Dec 4, 2008 1:17 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

or Gunterh will fire the linebackers coach himself

then where does that leave us? And then the NFLPA will step in and say wait, a coach cant fire himself.

"But what do I know, I’m like an empty room with a large ECHO"

by Lanier63 on Dec 4, 2008 1:23 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Ha

Even if he knows he should be fired?

by Shawn on Dec 4, 2008 1:27 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

He'll Never Fire Himself

If you read the interviews with him the guy’s in complete denial about what a terrible job he’s doing. He goes on and on about his long hours and how he’s having so much fun teaching all these young players while conveniently ignoring the fact that the areas he’s responsible for (linebackers and overall defense) are the worst parts of this team.

The guy may have been good once, but he’s a fraud now. I suspect he keeps going on about his superhuman working hours because he’s hoping that’ll make people overlook how utterly unproductive the quality of his work has been. I’d hate to think how bad this defense would be if he wasn’t putting in 25 hours a day on his job and going without food or sleep for five straight years.

The Chiefs should win 5 to 6 games this year and no less than 4 for this season to be considered progress in any way. If he can't win at least 9 games next season, Herm's a joke.

by UCrawford on Dec 4, 2008 1:31 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Which makes me wonder

if he talks in third person when complimenting the linebackers coach?

"But what do I know, I’m like an empty room with a large ECHO"

by Lanier63 on Dec 4, 2008 1:36 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

IMHO

our offense was terrible last year, we failed the OC and got a new and allowed him to change the playcalling to suit the personnel. I say we fired everyone on the defensive side except the secondary coach and start fresh. And let the new DC run a scheme more suited to the players we have.

When deep space exploration ramps up, it'll be the corporations that name everything, the IBM Stellar Sphere, the Microsoft Galaxy, Planet Starbucks.

I'd be fine with 9-7 or 10-6 and competiting for the divsion title

by madtheory on Dec 4, 2008 1:13 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Works For Me

The Chiefs should win 5 to 6 games this year and no less than 4 for this season to be considered progress in any way. If he can't win at least 9 games next season, Herm's a joke.

by UCrawford on Dec 4, 2008 1:17 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Most of those are from the Vermeil era.

Page and Pollard are good enough they could start on most teams.

Indecision is the key to flexibility

by cmpotter on Dec 4, 2008 11:03 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I Didn't Ask About Most Teams

I asked about championship caliber teams. That’s the stated goal here, after all…to win a championship. Only one of those players that I see on that list would be a definite starter on a championship caliber team, and he’s not here anymore because the GM couldn’t get along with him.

The Chiefs should win 5 to 6 games this year and no less than 4 for this season to be considered progress in any way. If he can't win at least 9 games next season, Herm's a joke.

by UCrawford on Dec 4, 2008 11:06 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Who were there safeties again?

Better yet who are they now? Craig Dahl 0 tackles, Michael Johnson 54 and 2 int, SAMMY KNIGHT?12 tackles, Kenny Phillips53 and a pick, and James Butler 50 tackles and 2 pics. They play on a good defense and those aren’t pro bowl numbers.

Indecision is the key to flexibility

by cmpotter on Dec 4, 2008 11:14 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Good Argument

I agree, Pollard and Page might be able to start for a championship caliber defense. That makes 3 players out of 13 drafted over a four year period that would be able to do so.

Asking a serious question and not trying to rip on you, do you think that’s a record that should inspire any confidence in the direction the defense is going?

The Chiefs should win 5 to 6 games this year and no less than 4 for this season to be considered progress in any way. If he can't win at least 9 games next season, Herm's a joke.

by UCrawford on Dec 4, 2008 11:25 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

And the only LB

that has more tackles than DJ on the Giants is Antonio Pierce with 10 more.

I’d argue even with DJ’s crappy year he’d be starting for them

I strive to be the person my dog thinks I am.

by KCking on Dec 4, 2008 11:36 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

That's One I Won't Concede

Antonio Pierce is having a down year…but since he took over as the starter in 2004 he’s been more productive than DJ. DJ has a slight edge in sacks but Pierce has a slight edge in interceptions and a significant edge in tackles. I think it’s doubtful that DJ would start over Pierce…especially since even the Chiefs aren’t happy with his performance at outside linebacker.

The Chiefs should win 5 to 6 games this year and no less than 4 for this season to be considered progress in any way. If he can't win at least 9 games next season, Herm's a joke.

by UCrawford on Dec 4, 2008 11:44 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

The difference is that they are loaded on the d-line

The Giants lose a great one to retirement another to injury and they have replacements. We are so thin on talent and injuries it is killing our linebackers and d-backs.

Indecision is the key to flexibility

by cmpotter on Dec 4, 2008 11:57 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Which Is A Factor Of The Drafting, Free Agent Evaluation And Coaching

The Giants are participating in the same drafts and signing out of the same free agent pools we are…the difference is that they find players who fit what they’re trying to do and utilize them in a fashion that helps their team win. The Chiefs don’t.

The Chiefs should win 5 to 6 games this year and no less than 4 for this season to be considered progress in any way. If he can't win at least 9 games next season, Herm's a joke.

by UCrawford on Dec 4, 2008 12:03 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

True....but they already had a foundation to build upon.

Hopefully we can do the same……eventually

Indecision is the key to flexibility

by cmpotter on Dec 4, 2008 12:05 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

So Did We

Because we’ve had the same GM in place for 19 years. That’s why the Chiefs shouldn’t get a clean slate for rebuilding…because as long as the guy who made the team bad in the first place is still running things, they’re not really rebuilding. They’re just continuing his mistakes.

Teams build solid foundations by not leaving the same people who wrecked the team in charge of rebuilding it. That sets a tone for accountability in the organization.

Of course this assumes that Chiefs ownership measures success by winning and not just by how healthy their bottom line looks. Because if it’s just about the bottom line then it’s probably fair to speculate that the reason Carl Peterson is still in charge is because the Hunts are content with having a terrible team as long as it’s a profitable one.

The Chiefs should win 5 to 6 games this year and no less than 4 for this season to be considered progress in any way. If he can't win at least 9 games next season, Herm's a joke.

by UCrawford on Dec 4, 2008 12:12 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Winning isn't everything its the only thing....Scratch that

Its whatever puts money in the Hunt’s pocket

Indecision is the key to flexibility

by cmpotter on Dec 4, 2008 12:18 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Touche

I’ve said the aforementioned for quite some time.

Bill Parcell’s: "You are what your record says you are."

The Chiefs need to be playoff contenders in 2009 for me to consider improvement. Clark wanted it in 2008...I'll give them an additional year.

by THE_TRUTH on Dec 4, 2008 1:51 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

You really think THAT is why they're moving him to MLB?

This is the first season since we drafted DJ that he has played Will (the position he played in college)…he has also not played all 12 games. I think they’re trying to figure out who to draft in 2009.

by PVChiefsfan on Dec 4, 2008 12:44 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I Think They're Moving Him

Because they’re not happy with his performance at outside linebacker, because they think he lacks concentration, because their middle linebacker position has no talent and he might be able to play it, and because they’re trying to figure out if he’s worth a new contract after 2009.

When your first round pick has got that many question marks surrounding him in the fourth year of his career, I think it’s fair to say that he’s been a disappointment.

The Chiefs should win 5 to 6 games this year and no less than 4 for this season to be considered progress in any way. If he can't win at least 9 games next season, Herm's a joke.

by UCrawford on Dec 4, 2008 12:54 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

DJ was successful in college because he was freed up

DJ, I guarantee would be a probowler in the 3-4. If we had a halfway decent line in front of him things would be differnt also.

Indecision is the key to flexibility

by cmpotter on Dec 4, 2008 12:56 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

It's all about the players around him

Any great linebacker has good players around him, DJ is putting up stats but they aren’t great because he isn’t freed up. I agree with cmpotter. I don’t want to bring madden into this but remember DJ was the #2 ranked OLB and he was there because everybody thought that the Chiefs D would improve AGAIN this year. Which it obviously hasn’t. The thing im wondering is is this years D a fluke? Are we going to improve significatly next year even if we dont get rid of Gun and draft maybe 1 or 2 starters? I also thing we aren’t going to ignore free agency this year. FO SHO

by Shawn on Dec 4, 2008 1:13 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I'm not sold on DJ being a bust by any means.

He is still productive and I do think he would be a great LB on a pretty good defense. But that’s the problem. He’s not on a good defense and really never has been. Not sure if he is a factor in that or not, but I honestly dont think so. WE NEED A JAMES/REY.

by Shawn on Dec 4, 2008 1:16 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I would also disagree with you on why they are moving him.

DJ is the best linebacker and most experienced of what we have left at the position. Therefore they probably feel that since he knows the defense he should be calling the signals. MLB is one of the most important spots on the defense. I highly doubt you put someone you are unhappy with there.

Indecision is the key to flexibility

by cmpotter on Dec 5, 2008 2:28 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

If He Succeeds

I’ll like the move. I’m just not giving this coaching staff the benefit of the doubt on anything involving the defense anymore though. Remember how the last player they moved to another position (Hali) worked out.

And if it blows up in their faces and DJ isn’t a very good MLB, that should be considered another nail in this coaching staff’s coffin. Come to think of it, how many players on this defense during Herm’s or Gunther’s tenure have switched positions and had it work out for the better?

The Chiefs should win 5 to 6 games this year and no less than 4 for this season to be considered progress in any way. If he can't win at least 9 games next season, Herm's a joke.

by UCrawford on Dec 5, 2008 8:32 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Good points

The way that this team is beat up peoples hands are tied on this decision. The Hali one was decided before the injuries, I’ll give you that.

Indecision is the key to flexibility

by cmpotter on Dec 5, 2008 12:18 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Don't Forget Alphonso Boone Either

They tried to make him a DE and he was terrible.

The Chiefs should win 5 to 6 games this year and no less than 4 for this season to be considered progress in any way. If he can't win at least 9 games next season, Herm's a joke.

by UCrawford on Dec 5, 2008 12:40 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

At pass rushing

I thought the Boone experiment worked out okay against the run (when he was LDE…NOT the times we saw him at RDE…those were horrible)

by PVChiefsfan on Dec 5, 2008 1:22 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Antonio Pierce is a MLB

DJ would definitely start as an OLB for the Giants. DEFINITELY! I’d put money on it

I strive to be the person my dog thinks I am.

by KCking on Dec 4, 2008 12:53 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

DJ would start for any team in the league

He would be one of the biggest names if he were a free agent. I would bet his contract would be pretty nice too.

Indecision is the key to flexibility

by cmpotter on Dec 5, 2008 2:29 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Just like one of our other X-LBs?

I remember how some were ragging on Kawika Mitchell’s abilities when he was a Chief. Hmmmmm.

by TXChiefan on Dec 5, 2008 1:27 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

We used him at middle

The other two teams have him playing the will.

Indecision is the key to flexibility

by cmpotter on Dec 5, 2008 3:08 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Refresh My Memory

Who was the general manager who was responsible for the drafts while Vermeil was the coach?

And who is he working for now?

The Chiefs should win 5 to 6 games this year and no less than 4 for this season to be considered progress in any way. If he can't win at least 9 games next season, Herm's a joke.

by UCrawford on Dec 4, 2008 11:12 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

It's Connected Because

The GM who says that Herm Edwards is the coach to lead us to the Super Bowl is the same GM who said that the much-maligned Dick Vermeil was the coach to lead us to a Super Bowl. And Gunther Cunningham before that. And Marty Schottenheimer before that.

When the GM hasn’t been able to build a team or put together a coaching staff that can reach a Super Bowl in 19 years of trying, what are the odds he’s right about a coach who has a losing record over seven years of coaching and has never won a division title?

The Chiefs should win 5 to 6 games this year and no less than 4 for this season to be considered progress in any way. If he can't win at least 9 games next season, Herm's a joke.

by UCrawford on Dec 4, 2008 11:22 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I understand your point

but I’m not going to say that everyone Carl hires is a piece of crap.

Those awful hot dog vendors can’t do their jobs cause Carl hired.:)

I strive to be the person my dog thinks I am.

by KCking on Dec 4, 2008 11:40 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I Wouldn't Say That Either

I like Chan Gailey a lot. And I thought Marty was a great coach, even if he didn’t win a championship.

But my point is that Carl Peterson’s judgment on who can and can’t lead this team to an NFL championship simply can’t be trusted.

The Chiefs should win 5 to 6 games this year and no less than 4 for this season to be considered progress in any way. If he can't win at least 9 games next season, Herm's a joke.

by UCrawford on Dec 4, 2008 11:45 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

And

The guy I went with to the KU/MU game ended up acting like a complete jackass and got himself thrown out (so I had to leave with him since he was my ride) and after dealing with the Arrowhead security people I’ve got to say that I was extremely impressed with how they handled the situation. Very level-headed, very fair and extremely courteous (they were very apologetic to me when they found out I had to go to, but I told them it was cool and thanked them for their work).

I don’t think Carl Peterson is wrong in absolutely everything he ever does. I just think he’s a terrible GM who has no clue how to build a championship club and who refuses to take responsibility for his screw-ups.

The Chiefs should win 5 to 6 games this year and no less than 4 for this season to be considered progress in any way. If he can't win at least 9 games next season, Herm's a joke.

by UCrawford on Dec 4, 2008 11:49 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I Was Agreeing With You

By agreeing that not everyone Carl Peterson hires is terrible. Just most of the ones who run the football team. :)

The Chiefs should win 5 to 6 games this year and no less than 4 for this season to be considered progress in any way. If he can't win at least 9 games next season, Herm's a joke.

by UCrawford on Dec 4, 2008 12:01 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Whoops

Sorry about that King. :)

The Chiefs should win 5 to 6 games this year and no less than 4 for this season to be considered progress in any way. If he can't win at least 9 games next season, Herm's a joke.

by UCrawford on Dec 4, 2008 12:07 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

that's okay

forgiven

I strive to be the person my dog thinks I am.

by KCking on Dec 4, 2008 12:55 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Several of us have said

there would be nothing wrong with Carl remaining as Team CEO and/or President, just let go of the football operations.

"But what do I know, I’m like an empty room with a large ECHO"

by Lanier63 on Dec 4, 2008 12:28 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Close to the same thing Steadman eventually did

"But what do I know, I’m like an empty room with a large ECHO"

by Lanier63 on Dec 4, 2008 12:29 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

+1

The only thing I am worried about is Denny Thumm taking over. He is another one of Carl’s boys.

Indecision is the key to flexibility

by cmpotter on Dec 4, 2008 12:33 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

and I say the same thing with Gunther

if he is the only one relieved of his duties and the other coaches (defense) stay, we have accomplished very little. I think Hali could have gotten better with a better position coach.

"But what do I know, I’m like an empty room with a large ECHO"

by Lanier63 on Dec 4, 2008 12:39 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

True.....Crumrie however you spell it needs to follow Gun out the door

Maybe they can ride together in Gunther’s Porche

Indecision is the key to flexibility

by cmpotter on Dec 4, 2008 12:49 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Yup

I think he’s terrible too. All I’ve ever seen the guy do is scream and yell like a jackass which has inspired his players to produce nothing. He’s been a d-line coach for 13 years and only three of the defenses he worked on could be considered good. Most of them were terrible.

The Chiefs should win 5 to 6 games this year and no less than 4 for this season to be considered progress in any way. If he can't win at least 9 games next season, Herm's a joke.

by UCrawford on Dec 4, 2008 12:59 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Except

What has Carl done to justify staying with the organization in a position where he’s going to end up hiring his replacement.

His most likely replacement would be Bill Kuharich…he of the fairly disappointing drafting record since arriving here. Why should that guy get a promotion? He helped build one of the worst teams in Chiefs history?

If the Chiefs were serious about winning, they’d remove Peterson from the organization entirely. He’s had his shot at building it into a championship team. He didn’t have what it took. Why not put someone in charge who might?

The Chiefs should win 5 to 6 games this year and no less than 4 for this season to be considered progress in any way. If he can't win at least 9 games next season, Herm's a joke.

by UCrawford on Dec 4, 2008 12:57 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Except when it can

like with Gailey and Marty, right? =)

by PVChiefsfan on Dec 4, 2008 12:45 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

How Many Titles Did Marty Win Us?

That was the goal behind hiring him after all. How many Super Bowls did he get to? How many playoff games did he win with the teams Carl built?

I liked Marty as a coach and think he’s great, but the fact remains that Peterson hired him to win a championship and he never even made it to a Super Bowl (and only came somewhat close to doing so in one year).

So while we can debate about whether it was Marty’s fault for mismanaging the talent he had or Carl’s fault for not providing enough talent to begin with, Carl Peterson was still the one responsible for the team falling short because he was the one responsible for the player acquisitions and because Marty was his hire. And Peterson demonstrated that despite his stated goals the closest the teams and coaching staffs he’s built could get to a Super Bowl was getting blown out in the AFC Championship game, 15 years ago.

The Chiefs should win 5 to 6 games this year and no less than 4 for this season to be considered progress in any way. If he can't win at least 9 games next season, Herm's a joke.

by UCrawford on Dec 4, 2008 1:05 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

We have made it to one AFC Championship since 1970........

Pretty good. Chalk that up to great leadership.

Indecision is the key to flexibility

by cmpotter on Dec 5, 2008 2:51 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Are You Being Sarcastic?

If so you should include a little smiley face after comments like that or people will think you mean it seriously.

The Chiefs should win 5 to 6 games this year and no less than 4 for this season to be considered progress in any way. If he can't win at least 9 games next season, Herm's a joke.

by UCrawford on Dec 5, 2008 8:29 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Good One :)

The Chiefs should win 5 to 6 games this year and no less than 4 for this season to be considered progress in any way. If he can't win at least 9 games next season, Herm's a joke.

by UCrawford on Dec 5, 2008 8:36 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

the parking lot restripping looks good

"But what do I know, I’m like an empty room with a large ECHO"

by Lanier63 on Dec 4, 2008 11:44 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

If we're experimenting...

can we try Pollard at LB? Dude can’t cover but can lay hits, put him in a position where he can do that more.

by HIV 2 Elway on Dec 3, 2008 6:53 PM CST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

The Cover 2/Tampa 2

Requires hard-hitting safeties. I don’t think Pollard is going anywhere as long as Herm is around.

by primetime 07 on Dec 3, 2008 7:11 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

+1.

He is our own version of John Lynch of the old, original Tampa 2 D, just that he can’t cover quite as well. The hard-hitter that scares the bejeezes out of the receivers heading down the middle of the field, in the main gap in the Tampa 2.

The real killer is Page, IMO, because he takes too many poor angles to be the centerfielder we need out there to pick up all of the trash that the front 7 + Pollard can’t tackle.

Oh, well. Page is good, still, just not as good as we need. But we have plenty of more pressing needs, so no sense trying to solve it or nothing.

by rockchalk on Dec 3, 2008 7:19 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Yes

I think Pollard could make a good LB. And have Dejaun Morgan start saftey, while we experiment with Pollard.

by Wildcats23 on Dec 4, 2008 12:42 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

That sounds like a good idea

But…

As rock-chalk brought out, receivers are scared straight of Pollard and that hit. And believe it or not, that fear affects some guys and their ability to catch the ball.

by ROC 27 on Dec 4, 2008 3:57 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

AJ Hawk moved to MLB...

…and Packers fans are diggin’ it.

-cw

"If there’s a god he’s laughing at us and our football team." - Ben Folds

by webby37 on Dec 3, 2008 10:59 PM CST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I have a broke down truck that needs a new transmission

I called Carl Peterson and Herm Edwards and they suggested this: Take the transmission out of my three year old truck and put it into the old decrepit truck so it will run. And don’t worry about the three year old truck, it wasn’t being used much anyway.

This decision, other than a way to stop the leak (defense) for the remainder few games, is abysmal at best in my opinion. We have an opportunity to get a true middle linebacker in the draft this year and we should take it. It’s not about a year or two fix, we want a team that has a chance to become a dynasty at winning, not losing.

"But what do I know, I’m like an empty room with a large ECHO"

by Lanier63 on Dec 4, 2008 8:58 AM CST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

jumping into this late

If in the event you get the wish of Gun getting fired is there someone in house that you would like to get his position or someone brought in from the outside and if so who??? B/c to me the problem resides in the fact that Herm wants Cover2 defense ran and we obviously do have the personnel to run it.

When deep space exploration ramps up, it'll be the corporations that name everything, the IBM Stellar Sphere, the Microsoft Galaxy, Planet Starbucks.

I'd be fine with 9-7 or 10-6 and competiting for the divsion title

by madtheory on Dec 4, 2008 12:37 PM CST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I think the ole bump-n-run

is the way to go. My two cents on in house people: Start completely over.

"But what do I know, I’m like an empty room with a large ECHO"

by Lanier63 on Dec 4, 2008 12:40 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Agreed

Carr and Flowers seem to be able to handle their our on the corners and have played ok in run support why not just switch to Man to man on the corners and just blitz almost every down.

When deep space exploration ramps up, it'll be the corporations that name everything, the IBM Stellar Sphere, the Microsoft Galaxy, Planet Starbucks.

I'd be fine with 9-7 or 10-6 and competiting for the divsion title

by madtheory on Dec 4, 2008 12:54 PM CST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Regarding your signature

Hell, 8-8 would probably be competing for the Division Title =)

by PVChiefsfan on Dec 4, 2008 12:59 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

and an offseason replete with commercial reminders

that the Chiefs are only one or two games away from the Super Bowl

The only measure of true success in the NFL is the Vince Lombardi trophy. Anything less is a rationalization.

by sm7600 on Dec 4, 2008 2:41 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

lol

When deep space exploration ramps up, it'll be the corporations that name everything, the IBM Stellar Sphere, the Microsoft Galaxy, Planet Starbucks.

I'd be fine with 9-7 or 10-6 and competiting for the divsion title

by madtheory on Dec 4, 2008 1:01 PM CST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

This all brings up an interesting question

Why is it that Herm allows Gunther to move players around to new positions (Hali, Boone and now Johnson) but he has been unwilling , as far as I know, to let Chan move Taylor to Right Tackle or even stick Richardson in there?

Seems to favor Defense over Offense

From yesterdays post from Herm:
On moving Derrick Johnson to middle linebacker…

Just to look at it as we move on down the road next year. We’ve got some decisions we have to make. We want to see if he can play ‘Mike.’ He played it in college and was a very good player. I think he wants to do it, but it puts a little more burden on him too. You have to be more focused because you have to get the team lined up and call the plays and makes the checks. That might help him too.

"But what do I know, I’m like an empty room with a large ECHO"

by Lanier63 on Dec 5, 2008 8:54 AM CST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

My Suspicion Would Be

Because Richardson isn’t close to being ready to play and Gailey doesn’t like what he sees from Taylor enough to make it an issue with Herm (or to even want to make a change). I’ve come to the conclusion over the season that Herm’s not as dictatorial as many people seem to think he is. He let Gailey scrap the loser ball offense and go with a spread. That’s a much more drastic step than a simple lineup change. So if Herm was willing to sign off on the spread I seriously doubt he’s being that much of a jerk about benching Sackintosh if Gailey really wanted him gone.

And I suspect the reason they’re switching so many players around on defense is because it’s at Gunther’s request and because they’re completely desperate to find something that might work. And, no, even if it’s Gunther’s request (which we have no way of knowing for certain) I don’t believe it should let Herm off the hook if moving DJ fails like moving Hali failed. Herm’s the head coach and he’s the one with the final say-so. Even if his coordinator comes up with a stupid idea, it’s his job to quash stupid ideas so it’s his fault if they get implemented.

The Chiefs should win 5 to 6 games this year and no less than 4 for this season to be considered progress in any way. If he can't win at least 9 games next season, Herm's a joke.

by UCrawford on Dec 5, 2008 10:08 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Could the differences between left and right tackle be big enough

that Taylor is not as good on the right as he was filling in on the left?

Or could we just be wanting to keep working him as a Left tackle so that if Albert ever goes down for a time, we won’t immediately revert to the Sackintosh years on the left side =)

by PVChiefsfan on Dec 5, 2008 11:05 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

refer to the Morning Update today

and see the section on whom Kuharich a has personally been watching for the draft. Makes me wonder what is going to happen with Albert next year?

"But what do I know, I’m like an empty room with a large ECHO"

by Lanier63 on Dec 5, 2008 11:17 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I Saw That Too

Monroe is projected as a top five pick. I wonder if this means that Albert will be shifting over to right tackle if we draft him? I seriously doubt he’ll go back to being a guard…mainly because of what we’re paying him and because guards are the most replaceable position on the o-line.

Just please don’t draft the tight end. Nothing against him, because he looks like a real player, but we need line more than anything.

The Chiefs should win 5 to 6 games this year and no less than 4 for this season to be considered progress in any way. If he can't win at least 9 games next season, Herm's a joke.

by UCrawford on Dec 5, 2008 12:06 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Possibly

I wondered about that too and it would make sense. Whatever the case, it appears that Taylor’s future is not at right tackle.

The Chiefs should win 5 to 6 games this year and no less than 4 for this season to be considered progress in any way. If he can't win at least 9 games next season, Herm's a joke.

by UCrawford on Dec 5, 2008 12:06 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

And While He Was Decent Filling In For Albert

Taylor wasn’t dominant, so he may be better suited as a reserve. And if Sackintosh wasn’t so gawdawful I probably wouldn’t question that.

The Chiefs should win 5 to 6 games this year and no less than 4 for this season to be considered progress in any way. If he can't win at least 9 games next season, Herm's a joke.

by UCrawford on Dec 5, 2008 12:08 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I think that is it

I think we can all see the value in having a solid, though perhaps not dominant, backup left tackle who just focuses on not sucking on the left island. If Albert ever goes down, it will be nice for Thigpen not to need to run for his freakin’ life every snap.

by PVChiefsfan on Dec 5, 2008 1:25 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

How can it be harder to play RT than LT?

LT is the position where you’re opposing premiere pass rushing RE’s. RT’s always had it easier in my book, so how could Taylor be better at playing a tougher position? Doesn’t make sense to me

by KansasCityShuffle on Dec 5, 2008 3:50 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I Don't Think It's Harder

It just requires slightly different skill sets. If you’re an Orlando Pace-type left tackle with strength, speed, and technique you can play pretty much wherever you want on the line and shifting to the right side isn’t an issue. If you’re a finesse tackle who isn’t a particularly dominating physical specimen who plays a decent job at left tackle you might struggle a bit more on the right because that’s where run plays more often go and it requires more physicality. Herb Taylor appears to be more of a finesse tackle.

The Chiefs should win 5 to 6 games this year and no less than 4 for this season to be considered progress in any way. If he can't win at least 9 games next season, Herm's a joke.

by UCrawford on Dec 5, 2008 4:29 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Preifer on Hard Knocks:

Herman why are we bringing competition into camp for Medlock?

"But what do I know, I’m like an empty room with a large ECHO"

by Lanier63 on Dec 5, 2008 10:42 AM CST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

oopps that was a reply to UC's post

"But what do I know, I’m like an empty room with a large ECHO"

by Lanier63 on Dec 5, 2008 10:42 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Which Would Seem To Back The Position That Herm's Not A Dictatorial Micromanager

He actually strike me as a guy who’s often hands-off to the point of being negligent. A guy that has all these grand ideas but never follows through on the necessary detail work to bring it to fruition.

But of course none of us have any real idea of how far down in the weeds he really is with his subordinates. He may be micromanaging every decision, he may be delegating all the work off. And I suspect that most of the time when we try to attribute specific blame for a problem (e.g. using the Cover-2, playing McIntosh, switching Hali) to a certain individual on the coaching staff most of the time we’re just projecting blame onto the people we like the least or deflecting it away from the people we like more.

That’s why it’s probably best not to get too caught up in what the coaches are telling each other internally (because we really don’t know) but instead focus on holding the head coach accountable because he’s the one responsible for making sure his coaching staff is able to work together effectively and produce the results on the field. Gunther or Chan or Krumrie may be the ones making the stupid decisions, but it’s still Herm’s job to figure out which are the stupid decisions and quash them.

The Chiefs should win 5 to 6 games this year and no less than 4 for this season to be considered progress in any way. If he can't win at least 9 games next season, Herm's a joke.

by UCrawford on Dec 5, 2008 10:55 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

What's the deal

Gunther has proven himself successful as both a defensive coordinator and a linebackers coach. Maybe he’s not a good fit on a Herm Edwards team. But check Tennessee’s stats while Gun was there. Pretty good stuff. Pretty good HC there too. Hmmm…

by ChiefsDude on Dec 5, 2008 4:41 PM CST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

The Titans Had The Number One Ranked Defense Before Gunther Arrived

So I don’t think that a lot of credit can be given to Gunther for their achievements since they’ve been good without him as well and he was only the linebackers coach (he wasn’t defensive coordinator).

His two years running Vermeil’s defense weren’t good and his defenses were pretty so-so when he was the Chiefs’ head coach.

The Chiefs should win 5 to 6 games this year and no less than 4 for this season to be considered progress in any way. If he can't win at least 9 games next season, Herm's a joke.

by UCrawford on Dec 5, 2008 5:52 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

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