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Dont look at the record because..........

Despite what the record of this team is, everyone should notice that this team is getting better.  this team would be more consistant and would have more continutity if it werent for all the injuries and having to pull people off the street every week.  i think that everybody needs to relax and look at the team and not the record because our record could and should be alot better.

our offense is better in the spread and despite what people have said LJ hasnt been to bad in the spread offense either. the offense is scoring points and moving the ball and tyler thigpen hasnt been sacked nearly as much as croyle and huard was last year.

our defense is beat up and might nt be as good as last year but there is something to be said for being 2nd in the leauge in takeways.  i agree there needs to be more pressure from the ends and need to get more sacks. bt i like that we arent playing mostly cover 2 and more man to man.  and i still think this defense would be better if all our starters are healthy and everybody was playing together.

Star-divide

first of all let me say that i agreee with the majority of people on this site.  i dont think that herm is the answer but it is unfair to judge him when you have 18 rookies on the field and very little veterans.  you shouldnt judge the guy on this years proformance when so many guys are still learning the scheme and speed of the pro game. 

second of all look at the veterans that are on this team that have said that this team is already better than last year even though the record dosent support it.  people like tony gonzalez and brian waters have spoken out about this team and like where it is heading.

thirdly look at all the games and consider what could be.

weeks 1-3 we lost those games,however, we could have atleast tied and had a chance to win the game. we had a chance in the oakland game if it werent for turnovers. and we all know atlanta was just a horrible game.

week 4 we blew apart the broncos (33-19) when the broncos were averaging 30 some odd points a game.

week 5 and 6 were just terrible games against carolina and tennessee where nothing we did could go right.

weeks 7-10 are all games we could/should have won (against New York Jets, Tampa Bay, San Diego, New Orleans).

week 11 was a winnable game until we turned the ball over 5 times and lt trent edwards throw the ball around the field.

and finally week 12 we didnt allow a hundred yards rushing (fargas had 18 rushes for 82 yards and mcfadden had 7 rushes for 13 yards).

anyway i am just as frustrated as everyone else is i am just saying that is team is so much better when healthy and that this season should not be judges on wins and losses because we could be 8 and four right now if everything went our way.

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of Arrowhead Pride's writers or editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of Arrowhead Pride writers or editors.

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LOL +1 at NJ

could-a, should-a, would-a….and since we can’t look at the record and can’t take into consideration the fact that mgmt. chose these players, I guess we’re a pretty awesome team…on paper

Bill Parcell’s: "You are what your record says you are."

The Chiefs need to be playoff contenders in 2009 for me to consider improvement. Clark wanted it in 2008...I'll give them an additional year.

by THE_TRUTH on Dec 3, 2008 10:05 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

+11

"But what do I know, I’m like an empty room with a large ECHO"

by Lanier63 on Dec 3, 2008 10:09 AM CST   0 recs

thats not wat im saying

yes the record does suck but this team is on the verge on turning the corner, and when this team starts winning everybody will be saying what good decisions were made. all i am saying is look at the progress throughout the year and dont base it on wins and loses

by chiefs8288 on Dec 3, 2008 10:19 AM CST   0 recs

I don't see "the progress", but OK.

Course “progress” is a purely subjective term and unless there are specific measurables such as (FG% which has increased IMHO), I don’t see it.
Not trying to be snide, but I don’t base things with pro teams on my gut feelings (not saying you do)…I have to have specific metrics that show me a progression on different sides of the ball. Hope that makes sense.

Bill Parcell’s: "You are what your record says you are."

The Chiefs need to be playoff contenders in 2009 for me to consider improvement. Clark wanted it in 2008...I'll give them an additional year.

by THE_TRUTH on Dec 3, 2008 10:29 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

Margin of loss is less?

Have to look it up to be sure it’s real and not perceived. Maybe take it by 1/4 of the season.

by NJChiefsFan on Dec 3, 2008 10:41 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

Here we go

1st five losses: 104 points

2nd five losses: 41 points (23 vs Buffalo)

by NJChiefsFan on Dec 3, 2008 10:46 AM CST to parent up   1 recs

So that totals 145 pts. Right?

K…here’s another stat to show off-season improvement.

The first 10 games of last year…the total margin of loss was 90 pts. exactly. I looked it up.

That means opponents have scored 55 pts. more in the same time span.

Bill Parcell’s: "You are what your record says you are."

The Chiefs need to be playoff contenders in 2009 for me to consider improvement. Clark wanted it in 2008...I'll give them an additional year.

by THE_TRUTH on Dec 3, 2008 11:37 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

uh oh

"But what do I know, I’m like an empty room with a large ECHO"

by Lanier63 on Dec 3, 2008 11:40 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

Oh...

…and one more stat. The total for the whole year in 2007…was 162

Bill Parcell’s: "You are what your record says you are."

The Chiefs need to be playoff contenders in 2009 for me to consider improvement. Clark wanted it in 2008...I'll give them an additional year.

by THE_TRUTH on Dec 3, 2008 11:41 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

I knew something else was coming

"But what do I know, I’m like an empty room with a large ECHO"

by Lanier63 on Dec 3, 2008 11:45 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

lol...sorry Lanier...wish you were back here and young again

Bill Parcell’s: "You are what your record says you are."

The Chiefs need to be playoff contenders in 2009 for me to consider improvement. Clark wanted it in 2008...I'll give them an additional year.

by THE_TRUTH on Dec 3, 2008 11:48 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

We were rarely blown out in the past.

That happens a lot this year. I think the numbers do show improvement in “competitiveness” over the course of this season.

by NJChiefsFan on Dec 3, 2008 11:58 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

How about...

…the 41-7 loss against Denver last year? Or 30-16 against SD last year? or 27-11 against Denver as well last year?

Bill Parcell’s: "You are what your record says you are."

The Chiefs need to be playoff contenders in 2009 for me to consider improvement. Clark wanted it in 2008...I'll give them an additional year.

by THE_TRUTH on Dec 3, 2008 12:05 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

and one more thing...

…I can’t judge “competitveness” or “Blowout”.They are arbitrary terms that can be biased and opinionated and can be argued. I look at the stats…all I can do.

Now, having stated all of the above. I could argue that the teams are different between the seasons and the only way to justify if this years team has improved would be to play this squad against all 16 games against the same squad of players from last year…but that can’t happen.

So we can argue that point to no avail…but I don’t see “competitiveness” with the point differential and a 2 win record.

Just my .02

Bill Parcell’s: "You are what your record says you are."

The Chiefs need to be playoff contenders in 2009 for me to consider improvement. Clark wanted it in 2008...I'll give them an additional year.

by THE_TRUTH on Dec 3, 2008 12:11 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

So?

The post by chiefs8288 was about progress within this season.

all i am saying is look at the progress throughout the year

you asked for specific metrics

I have to have specific metrics that show me a progression

NJChiefsFan was providing a stat which did so (provided specific metrics from THIS season

1st five losses: 104 points

2nd five losses: 41 points (23 vs Buffalo)

And then you moved the goalposts to include last season and the off-season

K…here’s another stat to show off-season improvement.

by PVChiefsfan on Dec 3, 2008 12:11 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

And then you moved the goalposts to include last season and the off-season

Horse-hockey. I NEVER included the pre-season. Look up the stats yourself before making that accusation.

Bill Parcell’s: "You are what your record says you are."

The Chiefs need to be playoff contenders in 2009 for me to consider improvement. Clark wanted it in 2008...I'll give them an additional year.

by THE_TRUTH on Dec 3, 2008 12:12 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

I made a point whether the team improved BETWEEN seasons...

…not offseason play. That stat would be rediculous

Bill Parcell’s: "You are what your record says you are."

The Chiefs need to be playoff contenders in 2009 for me to consider improvement. Clark wanted it in 2008...I'll give them an additional year.

by THE_TRUTH on Dec 3, 2008 12:13 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

He's not saying preseason

just last season

at least that’s the way I understood it

I strive to be the person my dog thinks I am.

by KCking on Dec 3, 2008 12:24 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

That is correct KCking

I compared 10 games vs. 10 games….then curiosity got the best of me and I looked at the entire 2007 season points.

Not pre-season games they mean nothing.

Bill Parcell’s: "You are what your record says you are."

The Chiefs need to be playoff contenders in 2009 for me to consider improvement. Clark wanted it in 2008...I'll give them an additional year.

by THE_TRUTH on Dec 3, 2008 12:29 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

again

The post by chiefs8288 was about progress within this season

You challenged him to provide specific metrics of progress within this season

NJ provided those specific metrics of progress within this season

by PVChiefsfan on Dec 3, 2008 1:22 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

And I compared it to games from last season

I was curious to see improvement and compared the stats. So what. I see his point, it’s a valid point. I just compared it to last season as a comparison.

Stats are made to be compared. I don’t see any argument. The stats show they’ve improved this year by taking a slice of the season…so I took the same slice from last season. No biggie. We are “rebuilding”…so we can compare the first 5 and 5 of next season as well as compare it to this season as well.

Have we improved this season according to his stats…ok, I’ll buy that. did we improve in the same timeframe from last year…nope. If we regress next year as well….what does that tell you?

Again, no biggie.

Bill Parcell’s: "You are what your record says you are."

The Chiefs need to be playoff contenders in 2009 for me to consider improvement. Clark wanted it in 2008...I'll give them an additional year.

by THE_TRUTH on Dec 3, 2008 1:27 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

Does it really matter?

We blew up the roster and began a rebuild with an inordinant number of rookies and young players. We all knew this would be a year of dramatic ups and down. We knew there was no way we would be competitive. Really, for this year, is there such a huge difference in rating the “success” or “quality” of our team by a 2-14 or 5-11 season? Unless a team is trying to be competitive for the playoffs, the record is only important to draft order and pride. A 10-6 team that doesn’t make the playoffs is actually no more “successful” than the 2-14 team except for the same old “we almost made it”.
I’m still confident that this year was all about development, record be damned. I do see many signs of improvement……not as a whole yet, but by position and by player. The potential for building a long term solid team is right in front of us, so it is in Herm’s hands to build. We have the core of a great team for decades that just needs molded with a few key positions filled and the coaching to pull them together as a unit.
We are seeing it come together and will be able to look back in a few years and say, “It sucked badly, but thank God we did it”

by TXChiefan on Dec 3, 2008 10:35 AM CST   0 recs

or...

those buffoons had no clue as to what they were doing.

by sm7600 on Dec 3, 2008 12:11 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

better with certain injuries

I, for one, are certainly happy with some of the injuries b/c god knows where we’d be if Croyle and Huard were never injured, we’d still be running the R2P2. It also has been good in the evaluation of other players, ie Herb Taylor in place of both Albert which I’m glad is back and Adrian Jones.
I’d be somewhat ok with the losing if we were getting better week in week out or even from one half to the next but it seems that during halftime Herm and Co. just mail it in b/c we haven’t played well in a 2nd half all season. And the week to week is a crap shoot b/c you never know where we stand b/c our defense has been terrible and we’re not putting up 30 a game like we did when Vermeil was here to think we have a chance. So if our defense gets shored up and specail teams gets a little better then i’d agree we’re getting better but 1/3 of team has improved and 2/3 has digressed which is hardly improvement.

by madtheory on Dec 3, 2008 10:42 AM CST   0 recs

Injuries

Have you seen the current IR list in the NFL? It’s crazy. And the Chiefs look like they’re in a lot better shape than a lot of other teams.

by ChiefsDude on Dec 3, 2008 12:27 PM CST   0 recs

I think his point is

this season was supposed to be a rebuilding season . You cannot compare to last season becuase we decided to blow up our roster and start with young players with no experience. everyone knew there were going to be bad games this season. The improvement from first 5 games to last 5 games shows the team is moving in the right direction. If the remaining games show this same trend then there is no doubt that the team is moving forward. There really was no expectations of major improvement from last year to this year, it is improvement from week 1 to week 16 in this season that is the biggest sign the team is moving forward.

by KCCheeze on Dec 3, 2008 7:23 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

And are we going to use the same excuse next year?

When can we compare years? When we stop rebuilding? (which never should happen…a team is always rebuilding) When we don’t have injuries to blame on? When the same exact team takes the field the following year so we have an honest comparison? How about not comparing years since the schedules change year after year…let’s email the4 league about that one?…lol

Herm’s chock-full of excuses. I’ve got an excuse for him…when we get a real HC then we can compare the numbers….lol.

BTW….I can compare all I want to…lol. Statisticians do it ALL the time on tv and the radio. I don’t care about rebuilding and I don’t care about injuries….deal with it. The other 31 teams do as well.

Bill Parcell’s: "You are what your record says you are."

The Chiefs need to be playoff contenders in 2009 for me to consider improvement. Clark wanted it in 2008...I'll give them an additional year.

by THE_TRUTH on Dec 4, 2008 7:49 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

+1000

A coach who’s been on the job for this long has no excuse for why his team is this bad.

Tom Landry was a coach for 30 years and rebuilt several times…the only time he fielded a team as bad as the Chiefs was during his first season (when the Cowboys were an expansion franchise that wasn’t given any draft picks) and his last season (for which he was fired). He never bottomed out his team to rebuild like the Chiefs have. Know why? Because he actually cared about winning every season.

The Chiefs should win 5 to 6 games this year and no less than 4 for this season to be considered progress in any way. If he can't win at least 9 games next season, Herm's a joke.

by UCrawford on Dec 4, 2008 8:09 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

"I don’t care about rebuilding...deal with it. The other 31 teams do as well."

No, they don’t…we tried to avoid dealing with it for nearly a decade…several of the other 31 teams have tried to avoid it as well…some are STILL avoiding it.

by PVChiefsfan on Dec 4, 2008 11:31 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

Like Who?

Here are all of the teams that went to the Super Bowl. How many of them intentionally bottomed out their team before making their Super Bowl run?

The Chiefs should win 5 to 6 games this year and no less than 4 for this season to be considered progress in any way. If he can't win at least 9 games next season, Herm's a joke.

by UCrawford on Dec 4, 2008 1:36 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

Every year is a REBUILD

Show me a team that has the SAME squad the following year…you can’t, positions are always being rebuilt. What’s the consensus on the definition of the rebuilding definition…there isn’t one. Teams are always rebuilding their squad. So what is a rebuild? 10 guys, 20, 32?…how about 53?

Let me pull out the NFL Handbook…here it is:
" A Professional Football Franchise that replaces current members of the squad during the offseason by 10 or more players through FA or acquisitions off the street are considered teams that are rebuilding" Unless the player has had previous NFLexperience excluding long term suspensions ala Michael Vick, they are considered part of the previously described 10. The only other stipulation is that if that squad is coached by Herm Edwards"

Rebuild = Never having the same squad the following year.

LOL

Bill Parcell’s: "You are what your record says you are."

The Chiefs need to be playoff contenders in 2009 for me to consider improvement. Clark wanted it in 2008...I'll give them an additional year.

by THE_TRUTH on Dec 4, 2008 1:38 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

Rebuild's Just Another Word..

…for nothing left to lose. Nothing, that’s all that Carl left me, yeah.

Seriously, rebuilding is just a weasel word that means whatever Peterson wants it to mean. In the case of the Chiefs it means the same thing as “gutting the team”, “bottoming out”, “running things on the cheap”, “tanking the season”, “saving cash for the owner”, “suckering the fans into paying higher ticket prices”, “making excuses for why the head coach can’t win games”, “creating an excuse so nobody gets fired” and “living the land of make-believe”.

What it doesn’t mean is “building a championship team from the ground up” because if it did it Carl Peterson wouldn’t be the one in charge of running it.

The Chiefs should win 5 to 6 games this year and no less than 4 for this season to be considered progress in any way. If he can't win at least 9 games next season, Herm's a joke.

by UCrawford on Dec 4, 2008 2:29 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

And the funny thing is that he has sold the SAME snake oil packaged differently for 19 years.

People still believe in anything “NEW” that is dished by the team. It was: The NIGERIAN NIGHTMARE!!!! woooooooow, Montana…ooooooh, SB winning coach Vermeil….ahhhhhhh.
Next year CHIEFS FANS COME TO THE NEW ARROWHEAD…New, New, New…get your tickets for ’09…..weeeeeeee

Bill Parcell’s: "You are what your record says you are."

The Chiefs need to be playoff contenders in 2009 for me to consider improvement. Clark wanted it in 2008...I'll give them an additional year.

by THE_TRUTH on Dec 4, 2008 2:54 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

I think the town has finally caught up with ol Carl

I think selling season ticket packages will be a real struggle in the upcoming off season

The only measure of true success in the NFL is the Vince Lombardi trophy. Anything less is a rationalization.

by sm7600 on Dec 4, 2008 2:58 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

Best Way To Handle A Snake Oil Salesman

Was demonstrated in “The Outlaw Josey Wales” (at the 2:49 mark)

The Chiefs should win 5 to 6 games this year and no less than 4 for this season to be considered progress in any way. If he can't win at least 9 games next season, Herm's a joke.

by UCrawford on Dec 4, 2008 3:09 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

Didn't Work

Here’s the link.

The Chiefs should win 5 to 6 games this year and no less than 4 for this season to be considered progress in any way. If he can't win at least 9 games next season, Herm's a joke.

by UCrawford on Dec 4, 2008 3:09 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

LOL...awesome flick

Seriously, I can’t believe how many people “buy into” all the BS the man has spewed for soooo many years.
I’ve ALWAYS supported the CITIES team…don’t get me wrong, but there is a fine line with who I support in the organization.

The thing that irk’s me just as much…the media. They talk so tough on the radio and on TV yet they NEVER ask the hard and pressing questions to mgmt. Case in point, Carl’s defense of the horrible field at Arrowhead during the MU/KU game. He said he heard good things and that the coaches said they liked the conditions <——ABSOLUTE LIE. 810 then cut away and played the coaches comments BEFORE they had interviewed Carl and they both professionally criticized the side of the fields being horrible….yet NOT ONE person from the media confronted Carl about his lie…not ONE.

Bill Parcell’s: "You are what your record says you are."

The Chiefs need to be playoff contenders in 2009 for me to consider improvement. Clark wanted it in 2008...I'll give them an additional year.

by THE_TRUTH on Dec 4, 2008 3:19 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

Agreed

That’s one of the great things about the blogosphere. Journalists have to self-censor at times otherwise they get their access pulled if the team decides to get snippy (case in point, the two journalists the Royals yanked credentials for when they questioned the moves the front office was making). We don’t really have to do that.

When the team makes a blindingly bad free agent signing, we can question it. If we see something that the journalists miss, we can ask those followup questions. When the fans are happy or unhappy, the blogs are a forum to express their opinions to a wider, interested audience.

We don’t usually have the access out here that the newspapers and TV and radio do, but that does mean that we don’t have to play the games they do to keep that access…we can just offer a brutally honest opinion on what we see. It’s like the old saying about how freedom of the press really only applies to those who own a press…now pretty much anyone can own a press. :)

The Chiefs should win 5 to 6 games this year and no less than 4 for this season to be considered progress in any way. If he can't win at least 9 games next season, Herm's a joke.

by UCrawford on Dec 4, 2008 4:02 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

By The Way

That field did look like absolute crap during the KU/MU game and it seemed to play like that too. Quite a few players appeared to have trouble with it being slippery outside the hashmarks. It looked like they’d hired a bunch of high school kids who didn’t know a damn thing about turf to maintain it. I couldn’t believe that it was a professional football field.

The Chiefs should win 5 to 6 games this year and no less than 4 for this season to be considered progress in any way. If he can't win at least 9 games next season, Herm's a joke.

by UCrawford on Dec 4, 2008 4:09 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

Raiders = Never having the same coaches the following year.

"But what do I know, I’m like an empty room with a large ECHO"

by Lanier63 on Dec 4, 2008 2:34 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

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