Week 17 Herm Edwards Approval Rating
by Chris Thorman on Dec 29, 2008 9:00 AM CST
in 2008 Kansas City Chiefs Campaign
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We'll run this every week next season but for now, with the 2008 season under our belts, I want to know how everyone feels about Herm. Personally, I think Herm needs to leave when our new GM comes in. His track record in KC is getting too ridiculous to keep him around. Losing 23 of the last 25 games? Come on.
Do you approve or disapprove of how Herm Edwards handled his job as the coach of the Kansas City Chiefs?
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'nough said
So most everyone agreed with the rebuilding of the team. The way you measure success through a rebuild is with progress. Consider the following:
re-build:
1. to repair, esp. to dismantle and reassemble with new parts: to rebuild an old car.
2. to replace, restrengthen, or reinforce: to rebuild an army.
3. to revise, reshape, or reorganize: to rebuild a shattered career.
–verb (used without object)
4. to build again or afresh: With the insurance money we can rebuild.
progress:
1. a movement toward a goal or to a further or higher stage: the progress of a student toward a degree.
2. advancement in general.
3. growth or development; continuous improvement: He shows progress in his muscular coordination.
4. the development of an individual or society in a direction considered more beneficial than and superior to the previous level.
“The 2008 season is going to be a very important year for our football team,” Hunt said Thursday in an interview with The Associated Press. “I expect us to at least compete for a playoff spot.”
At the same time, Hunt conceded that third-year coach Herm Edwards faces a major retooling of a team that finished near the bottom in many offensive statistics while struggling through a losing streak that set a record for the franchise his father founded more than 40 years ago.
“I’m realistic and patient to some degree. But I also know that in the NFL you can quickly turn things around,” he said. “I think you can look at a franchise like Green Bay who three years ago was in the same spot we’re in. They were 4-12.”
The balance scale in no measurable way was tipped in favor of progress this season. Only the coaching staff can answer to that fact and should be held accountable.
We need a future defensive leader, his name is James Laurinaitis and he can be selected in round 1 of the upcoming Draft.
"But what do I know, I’m like an empty room with a large ECHO"
Poor Game Management
Our failures in the second half and Herm’s inability to grapple with clock management, means he has to go. We could have realistically won another 2 to 4 games this season if Herm had been a better coach.
Gunther and his assistants all need to go too. Remember when we thought having Gunther coaching the LBs was going to turn DJ into a probowler?
Which games?
Which games did he lose with poor clock management?
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Dec 29, 2008 11:18 AM CST up reply actions
Chiefs: 2-23 over the last 25 games
That’s not rebuilding and we all can agree on a handful of players that have earned/proven they have the goods to play next year. A handful.
1-15 Miami last year. 29 new players this year. Current Playoff contenders for the SB. ’nuff said
Which team is rebuilding the right way is the question?
Bill Parcell’s: "You are what your record says you are."
The Chiefs need to be playoff contenders in 2009 for me to consider improvement. Clark wanted it in 2008...I'll give them an additional year.
Thigpen WILL NOT be the Chiefs starting QB next year IMO. He can compete for the job and should be 2nd or 3rd string.
ONE more thing
During Gun’s 2 years as HC he won 8 games and was let go.
During Herm’s last 2 years as HC he won 6 games.
You tell me if this is working? If anyone mentions the excuse of rebuilding than I’ll use Miami and Atlanta as an example of rebuilding and we can nip that argument in the bud.
Bill Parcell’s: "You are what your record says you are."
The Chiefs need to be playoff contenders in 2009 for me to consider improvement. Clark wanted it in 2008...I'll give them an additional year.
Thigpen WILL NOT be the Chiefs starting QB next year IMO. He can compete for the job and should be 2nd or 3rd string.
assist
Gun won 16 games in two years 9-7 and 7-9. 10 more games than Gun and Herm still has a job?
We need a future defensive leader, his name is James Laurinaitis and he can be selected in round 1 of the upcoming Draft.
"But what do I know, I’m like an empty room with a large ECHO"
Yesss....he was .500 (I've got the Monday morning coffee withdrawl's)
I stand corrected. Nice tackle Lanier…I didn’t see the RB break towards the outside ;)
Need more java…was up late watching NFL network and ESPN. Picture in picture is a brilliant invention.
Bill Parcell’s: "You are what your record says you are."
The Chiefs need to be playoff contenders in 2009 for me to consider improvement. Clark wanted it in 2008...I'll give them an additional year.
Thigpen WILL NOT be the Chiefs starting QB next year IMO. He can compete for the job and should be 2nd or 3rd string.
Gunther
Also had a much better team and much different expectations. Its an absurd comparison.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Dec 29, 2008 11:20 AM CST up reply actions
So I suppose we'll go back to excuses for the record than?
I suppose the realistic expectations for the 1-15 Dolphins should have been only 4 wins this year?
If you think small, you become small. No more excuses for a 2-23 HC. He picked his starters, he made the game plan and he coached the practices. The HC has the ultimate say…ask Marinelli, he took responsibility for the team and his coaching staff’s decisions.
It’s absurd to make excuses for a HC that still has a job with that abysmal record.
Bill Parcell’s: "You are what your record says you are."
The Chiefs need to be playoff contenders in 2009 for me to consider improvement. Clark wanted it in 2008...I'll give them an additional year.
Thigpen WILL NOT be the Chiefs starting QB next year IMO. He can compete for the job and should be 2nd or 3rd string.
Can't judge Herm by wins and losses
You judge him by the progress of the young players. I can admit he was largely a failure in that regard, but I’m not going to damn him because he couldn’t win games. Vince Lombardi couldn’t win games with this bunch of losers.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Dec 29, 2008 11:47 AM CST up reply actions
And who decided on the rebuild and the roster this year?
Herm did. It’s been widely discussed that Carl didn’t want to rebuild and that the draft choices were Herm’s call.
We’ve discussed the abysmal defensive drafting that was evaluated since 2004 and all the first day draft pick busts. Given, Herm didn’t make all the decisions in the draft until last year, but to give him a free pass after this record as well as not taking personal responsibility speaks for itself.
Also, Herm stated that 90-95% of the players will be retained going into next year. So do the math…that’s a change of about 5 players. That’s a ridiculous statement from a man that realizes he needs to BS the fans/ownership to think that his drafting and decision making is/was without fault.
Bill Parcell’s: "You are what your record says you are."
The Chiefs need to be playoff contenders in 2009 for me to consider improvement. Clark wanted it in 2008...I'll give them an additional year.
Thigpen WILL NOT be the Chiefs starting QB next year IMO. He can compete for the job and should be 2nd or 3rd string.
Every Coach Is Judged By Their Wins And Losses
That’s their sole purpose…to win football games. And Herm has lost more games than he’s won for a very long time.
Herm Edwards will not be the Chiefs' head coach next season.
you beat me to it
good thing, you had a nicer reply.
We need a future defensive leader, his name is James Laurinaitis and he can be selected in round 1 of the upcoming Draft.
"But what do I know, I’m like an empty room with a large ECHO"
I think it would be extremely shortsighted
If wins and losses were the only way you judged coaches.
In 2006, Herm finished 9-7 while Jon Gruden finished 4-12. Was Herm a better coach than Jon Gruden that year?
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
What Should We Judge Them By?
Rousing halftime speeches? Win and losses are tangible measures of a coach’s ability. And in a three year span (which is a reasonable length of time by NFL standards) Herm Edwards won less than a third of his games with the Chiefs. In the five years before that he also had a losing record.
In 2006, Herm finished 9-7 while Jon Gruden finished 4-12. Was Herm a better coach than Jon Gruden that year?
Herm had a better record than Gruden that year. Of course by that point in his career Gruden also had four division titles and a Super Bowl win, compared to one division title for Herm (which he won in a three way tiebreaker) and zero Super Bowl (or AFC Championship game) appearances.
So if I were debating whether to retain or fire either of them I’d probably be more willing to give Gruden the benefit of the doubt than Herm…mainly because Gruden produced and Herm hasn’t. Even though I think Gruden’s a bit overrated as a coach and should be on the hot seat in Tampa right now.
If you’re asking if I thought Herm should have been fired after 2006, my answer back then would have been no. I didn’t give up on Herm until the stupidity with anointing Brodie Croyle as the unquestioned starter.
Herm Edwards will not be the Chiefs' head coach next season.
As I said before
Young teams like this should be judged by the progress made by young players.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
Very Few Of Them Progressed
Many of them regressed, many of them stagnated, few showed any significant improvement. And they didn’t improve as a team overall. So there was no meaningful progress with the young players on this team.
Herm Edwards will not be the Chiefs' head coach next season.
I agree
Which is why I don’t have a problem with Herm getting fired. I just think looking at wins and losses in this context is kinda silly.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
It's Really Not
I can understand why you say that, but they’re the most objective measure of a coach’s performance available. And the NFL is a results-oriented league…perhaps the best example of a meritocracy in pro sports. At no point should a coach’s win-loss record ever be ignored, regardless of what the circumstances might be. A coach might merit a little leeway based on circumstance but there’s no such thing as a year where a coach should never have to produce any results in the shape of wins and keep his job (nor should there be)…especially if it’s the second sub-par year in a row (and 2007 and 2008 were definitely sub-par).
I’d have been willing to cut Herm a little more slack if this team looked like a 7-9 team or a 6-10 team or even a 5-11 team. But it didn’t…this team looked throughout the season like a 4-12, 3-13 or 2-12 team that was chronically mismanaged during the games and poorly coached overall. To be blunt, it looked like a team of enthusiastic amateurs run by a head coach who didn’t give a shit and who was just happy to have a job. And that’s just not acceptable, even in a rebuilding effort.
Herm Edwards will not be the Chiefs' head coach next season.
Plus
Herm’s complete cluelessness just pisses me off. Like his comments today…
“I’ll let my work speak for itself.”
Well, Herm, you’re the coach of a 2-14 team that lost in ugly fashion to some of the bottom feeders of the NFL (Bills, Raiders, Bengals). You never accept responsibility for what happens, your team played Sunday like they’ve never had a practice, and you got blown out in almost half of your games this year. Your work sucks.
Herm Edwards will not be the Chiefs' head coach next season.
Or This One
Edwards said the Chiefs’ decision might ultimately be more about whether he’s a good fit with the new general manager and less about whether he’s a good coach or he’s doing a good job.
Edward’s crappy performance is the primary reason we’re getting a new general manager…so it’s definitely about the quality of his work. If this team had gone 7-9 I have little doubt that Carl Peterson would have been here until the end of his contract, at the very least.
Herm Edwards will not be the Chiefs' head coach next season.
yes, because Gruden already had a
Super Bowl trophy in hand
The only measure of true success in the NFL is the Vince Lombardi trophy. Anything less is a rationalization.
I'm pretty agnostic to Herm
I don’t know if he’s a good coach or not. Its hard to tell when he’s been given such crappy players to deal with. I suspect he’s probably not that good of a coach, but a great motivator. His players love him and work hard for him. I won’t be terribly upset if he is not retained, but I don’t have nearly as negative an opinion of him as most Chiefs fans do.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
He Didn't Motivate His Team Much Yesterday
And he’s only motivated his team to two wins this season.
I’m sure that most of the players like Herm. But I don’t care about that…there are plenty of bad coaches who are loved by players and plenty of good ones who are hated. When those players actually win more than they’ll lose then I’ll care a little more about whether or not they’re fond of their boss. Until then they’re just a bunch of guys who don’t have any better of an idea of how to win football games than Herm does.
Herm Edwards will not be the Chiefs' head coach next season.
Yeah, they sure "loved" Coughlin last year and wanted him out
…until he coached them to a SB win. Now no one compalins about his coaching style. Some will argue he changed his style. I don’t see it. A coach doesn’t change how he does things overnight and that team played as a wild card and won all the way to the SB as a visiting team.
Funny how much they “hated” playing for him but still won the show. And anyone that claims that working with the Tuna was a love fest needs to take a good look at the man. Another prime example of a coach’s coach.
Bill Parcell’s: "You are what your record says you are."
The Chiefs need to be playoff contenders in 2009 for me to consider improvement. Clark wanted it in 2008...I'll give them an additional year.
Thigpen WILL NOT be the Chiefs starting QB next year IMO. He can compete for the job and should be 2nd or 3rd string.
Can't we follow Dungy instead of Knight?
Being an ass and winning is one of the things driving our society into a the crapper. It’s why TO gets so much primetime face time and Tony G gets a spot on Oprah’s forgetable summer programming.
Yes, winning is what we need to do, but let’s do it in such a way that we don’t have to explain it to our kids later.
Herm always supports his players, is always trying to be positive, never throws anybody under the bus. Yeah, that makes him look like he’s avoiding the truth, makes him look weak and wishy-washy at times, but what he’s doing is protecting his players. That I respect.
Dungy
I like him a lot…best coach in the NFL for my money. He behaves professionally and diplomatically and he gets results. But you also don’t see him letting his players get away with LJ type behavior and you don’t see him keeping around guys who aren’t getting results (e.g. dumping Edgerrin James, dumping Ed Johnson).
He holds his people accountable…Herm doesn’t.
Herm always supports his players, is always trying to be positive, never throws anybody under the bus.
B.S. He threw Thigpen under the bus for a game the defense lost (New Orleans). The only players he protects are the ones whose lack of quality performance would make him look bad.
Herm Edwards will not be the Chiefs' head coach next season.
Same With Gruden, And Shanahan, And Holmgren, And Belichick, And Jimmy Johnson, And Don Shula, And Vince Lombardi...
All tough guys to play for…but they still get results.
You don’t have to be an abusive prick who screams and yells to be a good coach, but there should never be any doubt between the player and coach that it’s an employer/employee relationship and that results take precedence over friendship. Tony Dungy is a guy who’s seen as the ultimate player’s coach, but do you think if he had players who were acting like Larry Johnson’s acted that he wouldn’t crack the whip and put the guy in line or get rid of him (like he got rid of DT Ed Johnson this year)? Herm’s a guy that the players seem to like. So’s Wade Phillips. But neither of them crack down on players or hold their people accountable and as a result their teams never really go anywhere.
Herm Edwards will not be the Chiefs' head coach next season.
Yet MarHar remains...
hmmm
by Official Arrowhead Pride Parade on Dec 29, 2008 3:53 PM CST up reply actions
Neither Convicted Nor Suspended For His Incident, Plus His Situation Was So Far Atypical
And I think his cap hit would have been pretty substantial if they got rid of him. I do suspect that he’ll be gone either next year or in 2010, though, considering his slippage of play.
Herm Edwards will not be the Chiefs' head coach next season.
Tough spot we're in.
We can look at Atl and Miami and say, “See, that’s how you do it.” But they could just as quickly be 3 and 4 win teams next year as well. Would we KC fans be happy with one season to feel good about ourselves and then back in the tank?
Seems like the teams that become dynasties build slowly (can’t really call it RE-building anymore can we?) Tennessee and Indy built and improved slowly but surely, stuck to their guns (and “NO” I don’t think we should keep Gun – even when his defenses were good, they weren’t that good) and now they look like geniuses and are tough teams to be reckoned with every year.
Fire who needs to be fired, not the whole coaching staff. Gun has shown for many years that he can put a decent defense on the field or he can put a lousy defense on the field; he’s never been great (though we may love what is stereotypically a “football coach” about him). I think Herm evaluates talent pretty well – we have lots of talent, while maybe not having the best and brightest at any one position; having the MOST talented people on the field won’t always work – T.O. and Romo aren’t going to the playoffs, Cutler and Marshall aren’t going to the playoffs, Peterson and Moss barely made it.
What I especially do like about Herm is that he wants to build a team of Chiefs, players who start as Chiefs, stay Chiefs, and identify themselves as Chiefs – but maybe that’s just the idealistic high school coach in me who doesn’t understand that the NFL is a business (God, I hate that phrase!).
If we completely overhaul (again) because Herm hasn’t produced (and we all know he hasn’t) then we could easily be looking at the exact same outcome we just got, for any number of years.
The devil you know and the devil you don’t know, eh?
I, for one, will stick by Herm on this one.
When has Gun showed he can put a decent defense on the field?
I must have missed those years
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
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