CincyJungle here to talk shop
Hey fellas. My name is Josh Kirkendall and I'm the blogger over at CincyJungle (Bengals blog). Between two teams having epic struggles this year, it will be nice that both of us can go into the final weekend with a realistic shot at winning a game. For the Bengals, Carson Palmer and Chad Johnson are expected to miss the game. We lost our starting right tackle last weekend, giving us three offensive linemen making their first NFL start in the past two months -- including another first-time starter this Sunday.
If you have any questions about the Bengals, bring 'em. I'll answer 'em all the best I can.
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of Arrowhead Pride's writers or editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of Arrowhead Pride writers or editors.
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How are you all feeling about Carson and Chad?
Is Carson STILL the QB of the franchise or is he too fragile?
And do you think Chad is outta Cincy in ’09?
We may be "playing to win the game", but it seems like we're coaching to lose.
'09, a new era begins.
For the land of the free and the home of the CHIEFS!
by ROC 27 on
Dec 23, 2008 12:17 PM CST
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RE:
In 2004, Palmer missed three games to injury, didn’t miss a game (if you don’t include the early first quarter injury against the Steelers in the 2005 playoffs) until this season. I don’t think he’s fragile, though having our offensive line allow 50 sacks this season doesn’t help either. Yes, Palmer is still the man and once all the chips are back on the same page, we’ll be back. We lost 23 guys to IR this season, and Palmer, Stacy Andrews and Levi Jones could as easily been included on that IR list. However, as Lewis says, “we’re tired of setting records on IR.”
As for Chad, I don’t envision him leaving. His trade value after this season has sunk, as has his play. I can’t imagine anyone wanting him right now (for his chatty mouth, terrible ‘08 performance) and I can’t imagine the Bengals will let him go for anything more than a collection of first born sons that they can sign to contracts for special teams roles.
Blogger at CincyJungle.com -- SB Nation Cincinnati Bengals blog.
by Kirkendall on
Dec 23, 2008 2:23 PM CST
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What is the future of Marvin Lewis
and the possibility of the owners bringing a GM in?
"In the NFL, coaching has to make a difference when the games are close. The talent level across the league from team to team is too similar. Great head coaches do their best work in the fourth quarter when the game is on the line. Instead, we’ve seen Herm blow timeouts, put the game in the hands of the league’s worst defense, and most recently, run Larry Johnson behind Wade Smith and Adrian Jones as if they were Tim Grunhard and Will Shields in their prime.
Dr. Frankenstein is gone, but his monster is still roaming the sideline at Arrowhead Stadium." -C.E. Wendler, Warpaint Illustrated
by IISaiNtII on
Dec 23, 2008 12:34 PM CST
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Yeah
Since we’re looking at a new GM as well, let’s get the inside scoop on a GM in cincy.
by primetime 07 on
Dec 23, 2008 1:03 PM CST
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RE:
Of the hot seat candidates that we hear and read about, Lewis is the safest. Without a doubt. And to his credit, even though the season has been terrible record wise, this team hasn’t blown up like most bad teams, where a player chats to the media about how terrible things are, or has their defensive tackle slug the pretty boy quarterback from Notre Dame.
Even though we’re a lousy team, there’s truth when Lewis says this team is a hellva lot more mature than the last one. Also, with so many guys being injured, we’re finding a few that would fit in our long term plans.
Cedric Benson, for one, is nothing like the portrayal we’ve heard of him. He’s quiet, but he’s actually turning into a leader, encouraging linemen and all that jazz. Lewis calls him a professional all the way. Chris Crocker, safety, is another. Since he’s come into Cincinnati during the season, he’s made great hits at the line of scrimmage, gotten a few sacks, picks, etc..
I think Lewis doesn’t get enough credit for keeping everything together during so much adversity. But if he doesn’t win next year, his contract won’t be renewed.
Blogger at CincyJungle.com -- SB Nation Cincinnati Bengals blog.
by Kirkendall on
Dec 23, 2008 2:27 PM CST
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GM
A little history. When Paul Brown owned the team, he was the defacto general manager, personnel evaluator, everything. Mike Brown has actually been with the team since damn near the beginning, but he took a liking to the business side of things. When his father died, he tried (and is still trying) to fill that void left by Paul. Essentially, Mike really does think he’s as good as Paul and since 1991, the Bengals have been terrible (I don’t need to convince any of you of that point).
So for as long as I can remember, we’ve never had a general manager as GMs are today. Then PFT said that the team could be looking into that direction, and Randy Mueller is the name surfacing.
I doubt the Bengals will be in competition for any of the GMs available. And I doubt that they put one in after this year. However, if the Bengals are terrible again next season, and if the Bengals decide to go with another coach, they could include a GM into the mix (which would cause a celebration as big as New Years eve in Cincy).
Blogger at CincyJungle.com -- SB Nation Cincinnati Bengals blog.
by Kirkendall on
Dec 23, 2008 2:31 PM CST
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How has Anthony Collins looked? Is he playing LT?
by rockchalk on
Dec 23, 2008 1:17 PM CST
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He’s in the long term future. Look at this. Since he’s started, he’s had to go up against James Harrison, Terrell Suggs and Dwight Freeney. He only gave up two sacks against those three, and 1.5 was to Freeney — Collins learned that day how quick some of these guys really are off the edges.
In truth, since Collins started, the offensive line has slowly stabilized. They’re giving Ryan “Crazy Legs” Fitzpatrick tons of time, opening great running lanes.
In short, Collins has been impressive, especially when you consider he’s all but shutting down some of the league’s best pass rushers.
Blogger at CincyJungle.com -- SB Nation Cincinnati Bengals blog.
by Kirkendall on
Dec 23, 2008 2:40 PM CST
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How do you feel about Unicorns?
Blame my wife!
by sir eccles on
Dec 23, 2008 2:02 PM CST
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Majestic creatures, they are! And when Tom Cruise was hell bent on saving Lili, he discovered a dead unicorn without its horn. With one remaining, the world was on the edge of total darkness doom and disaster when the Lord of Darkness finally encountered Cruise. Before saving Lili and reviving the dead unicorn, Cruise destroyed the Lord of Darkness and the world was saved!
Now, Cruise is a German without a hint of German accent. Who knew?
Blogger at CincyJungle.com -- SB Nation Cincinnati Bengals blog.
by Kirkendall on
Dec 23, 2008 2:34 PM CST
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The real question is
are there any Bengal-Unicorns (or, as I say, Bengicorns) out there?
Or Bengolphins?
You think it's coincidence that I bleed red?
by Mully on
Dec 23, 2008 3:19 PM CST
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And with the 5th pick in the NFL draft the Bengals select.....?
by primetime 07 on
Dec 23, 2008 2:41 PM CST
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Offensive Tackle
If the team has guys like Andre Smith or Michael Oehr, I’d be very surprised if the Bengals don’t select one — admittedly, we doubt both will be around.
Levi Jones is 29 years old and has been our starting left tackle since 2002. However, his body is severely breaking down with knee, leg and neck issues. Collins has served well backing him up, injecting stability into the position. However, Stacy Andrews (the starting right tackle, and guy that replaced Willie Anderson) is an unrestricted free agent, and tore his ACL (and other ligaments). Obviously, that one play, late in the fourth quarter, will cost him millions. It’s unknown if he’ll be back, or someone else will go out on the edge and sign him to a big contract, even knowing that his injury could take more time than the start of training camp to recover. He was average, at best, all season, for being a guy given the franchise tag.
So we need to get a tackle to replace Andrews. Many of us expected him to bolt for free agency anyway, so his injury doesn’t really change the team’s drafting plans.
In a perfect world, in the second round, the Bengals pick up center Alex Mack too.
Blogger at CincyJungle.com -- SB Nation Cincinnati Bengals blog.
by Kirkendall on
Dec 23, 2008 3:00 PM CST
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Are you confident that your O-Line,
even if all of them blow out their knees on the same play at the same time, still will not give up a sack to the Chiefs’ pass-crawl?
by thehulk on
Dec 23, 2008 3:11 PM CST
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And you must realize that the Chiefs pass-crawl is impossible to avoid...
We do have like NINE sacks this year. And that’s not in one game, one quarter or even by one individual. That’s ALL season by ALL players COMBINED. Our pass-crawl is like watching a maple syrup bucket fill from a fresh tree tap. You know it’s coming, you just don’t know if your life will be over before it gets there….
by KCFanatic on
Dec 23, 2008 3:40 PM CST
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Woah there
You do realize maple tree sap is really quite watery when fresh, it’s only later that it thickens up.
I would say it’s like watching a dribble of half dry paint slide down a wall then form a skin so a kind of bubble of dry paint forms and bulges a bit but doesn’t quite get any further down the wall.
Blame my wife!
by sir eccles on
Dec 23, 2008 4:01 PM CST
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wow
that visual is so dead-on.
i’m kind of speechless.
by thehulk on
Dec 23, 2008 4:18 PM CST
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I've been watching ESPNpaint
Blame my wife!
by sir eccles on
Dec 23, 2008 5:09 PM CST
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You do realize our defense
will make your back-up qb look like a pro-bowler don’t you? Will that make for a qb controversy in Cinci?:)
Lets hope Clark lets the new GM start fresh, with his guys. Who would want a coach, who has lost twice as many as he has won in KC?
by Eric Allen on
Dec 23, 2008 6:23 PM CST
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In the second half that is!
Lets hope Clark lets the new GM start fresh, with his guys. Who would want a coach, who has lost twice as many as he has won in KC?
by Eric Allen on
Dec 23, 2008 6:23 PM CST
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Has anybody told Chad Johnson...
…that Ocho Cinco means “eight-five” and NOT eighty-five? Just curious (even thought I’m not of spanish heritage), so correct me if I’m wrong.
Bill Parcell’s: "You are what your record says you are."
The Chiefs need to be playoff contenders in 2009 for me to consider improvement. Clark wanted it in 2008...I'll give them an additional year.
Thigpen WILL NOT be the Chiefs starting QB next year IMO. He can compete for the job and should be happy to be 3rd string or 2nd.
by THE_TRUTH on
Dec 24, 2008 9:43 AM CST
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it should be "ochenta y cinco"...I believe
Bill Parcell’s: "You are what your record says you are."
The Chiefs need to be playoff contenders in 2009 for me to consider improvement. Clark wanted it in 2008...I'll give them an additional year.
Thigpen WILL NOT be the Chiefs starting QB next year IMO. He can compete for the job and should be happy to be 3rd string or 2nd.
by THE_TRUTH on
Dec 24, 2008 9:44 AM CST
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I believe I am the authority on "ocho" names here
I’ve been using this moniker since before the turn of the millenia… and I am quite sure that it is horribly incorrect and/or completely fictional. Where that sets me apart from Chadouchebag, is that he probably thought Ocho Cinco was correct (or didn’t care)- where I have no pretenses that ochophosphate is or ever will be correct.
Ochenta y Cinco is correct for Eighty-Five.
Ocho Cinco is correct for Prime Minister of Douche in the Kingdom of Baggitha.
by Ochophosphate on
Dec 24, 2008 2:36 PM CST
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LOL +1
Bill Parcell’s: "You are what your record says you are."
The Chiefs need to be playoff contenders in 2009 for me to consider improvement. Clark wanted it in 2008...I'll give them an additional year.
Thigpen WILL NOT be the Chiefs starting QB next year IMO. He can compete for the job and should be 2nd or 3rd string.
by THE_TRUTH on
Dec 24, 2008 2:52 PM CST
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hehe
He doesn’t know how to use the three sea shells.
Blame my wife!
by sir eccles on
Dec 24, 2008 3:27 PM CST
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RE:
The funny thing is that it all started during a press conference during Latino-month or something like that. People enjoyed it, and he went with it.
However, there’s no doubt that Chad Johnson is partly insane. None what’s so ever.
Blogger at CincyJungle.com -- SB Nation Cincinnati Bengals blog.
by Kirkendall on
Dec 27, 2008 11:56 AM CST
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Is Benson a long term answer at RB?
I’ve been thinking Cincy would need to pick up some youth at RB this offseason, but Benson came in and has actually played quite well to finish the season.
Does it look like Benson will/can be a feature back in Cincy (like he was drafted to be in Chicago), or will he work alongside Perry and some of the other RB’s on the roster in the future?
Basically, gimme the wtf on Cincy’s RB situation.
by Ochophosphate on
Dec 26, 2008 9:14 PM CST
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RE: Running Backs
During the pre-season, both Chris Perry and Rudi Johnson looked really good. Primarily focused on their health, rather their effectiveness, the Bengals choose to go with a trio of Rudi, Perry and Watson. Then Rudi hurt his hamstring (I think) during training camp, and didn’t participate much. The Bengals released him on final cut-down day (with Willie Anderson and Deltha O’Neal)
So Perry became the team’s feature back. He was ineffective (big time), fumbling five times in the first five games, losing three — including one in the fourth quarter against the Cowboys in which we were only down by one point and driving to take the lead. This was about the time the Bengals signed Benson, who was exonerated of his charges, taking the bulk of the work. Perry has barely been seen since.
Chris Perry will likely be an off-season cut. He was, at one point, rated the worst RB by football outsiders.
Benson will be a free agent heading into the off-season. If the Bengals can sign him (and don’t be shocked to see the franchise tag if they can’t), then Benson will be the feature back and work horse who will get over 90% of the team’s total rush attempts. In our offense, we rarely distribute the ball between two running backs on the ground. If the Bengals can keep Benson, they’ll have a good collection of backs, combined with DeDe Dorsey and James Johnson (two young up and coming exciting quick/scat backs).
On the other hand, if the Bengals can’t sign Benson (who is very grateful that we gave him a second chance), then we expect them to address the position heavily in the off-season.
A quick word on Benson. What you know of him in Chicago, the lockerroom disruptions, the off-the-field issues, have been absolutely missing in Cincinnati. He’s being praised by team mates as an incredible leader, with most people describing him as “professional”. He’s the guy that tells linemen to keep their heads up when they miss a block, and he’s smoked in the backfield. He’s received a ton of respect from the peers on the team, and the Bengals would be wise to sign him; not only to fill that running back need, but because any team could use more leaders.
Blogger at CincyJungle.com -- SB Nation Cincinnati Bengals blog.
by Kirkendall on
Dec 27, 2008 11:38 AM CST
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free agent pickups?
Do you see the bengals making any significant moves in the free agent market? Do you think the chiefs and bengals be targeting any of the same players?
by paxi on
Dec 27, 2008 8:08 AM CST
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RE: Free Agents
There’s a lot of uncertainty to say. But if we disregard the draft, the Bengals will need to fill several needs via the free agency market. However, there’s too many things that needs to happen to narrow that search.
1) WR. Houshmandzadeh is on the final year of his contract, and Chad Johnson is clearly having the worst season in his career (is that age, or having a QB that doesn’t throw the deep pass well?). Will Johnson be around next season? Or will he be traded? There’s scenarios that exist that could see both receivers leave the team, or both receivers could return in 2009. We’ll need to address the position, greatly, if the former happens.
2) OL. The Bengals have two guys available for free agency; their center and right tackle. The right tackle, Stacy Andrews, suffered a bad injury, tearing several ligaments in his knee. He was expected to have a big payday, but now might be relegated to a one-year, prove you can play contact. However, it’s even questionable that they’ll bring him back. He gave up 9.5 sacks this season.
3) RB. Like above, if the Bengals can’t bring Benson back next season, they’ll need to invest in a power, workhorse type of running back.
4) DE. You guys fully understand this. But we have no pass rush on the edges — we’re 31st in the league, a few sacks ahead of you guys. We invested over $60 million on pass rushers in the past three seasons, and even let Justin Smith leave, while signing Antwan Odom.
5) DT. We have youth here, but it’s taking time to develop the guys. Peko, our best defensive tackle, is good, but he’s not the type of DT that clogs holes. If he’s double teamed, he’s done. Pat Sims and Jason Shirley are rookies and Sims is probably the only rookie that’s performed better than the surprising Anthony Collins (we’re only surprised with Collins because this should be his senior year and he’s adapting very well in the NFL).
6) MLB. Dhani Jones has been awesome, for a 30-plus year old that we signed off the streets last season (no one wanted him). He leads the team in tackles and has defined leadership on defense. But we need someone else to come in, perhaps as an understudy, to eventually lead the team past Jones. Dhani has been great, but in the end, he’s not play-maker. He doesn’t make plays that takes over games.
With that said, I doubt the Bengals make any splash in free agency. Marvin Lewis is a big believer that build a team through the draft, and let’s face facts… the Bengals don’t spend money.
Blogger at CincyJungle.com -- SB Nation Cincinnati Bengals blog.
by Kirkendall on
Dec 27, 2008 11:46 AM CST
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What's The Deal With Carson Palmer's Elbow?
Why is the Bengals organization (and/or Palmer) so hesitant to make a decision regarding whether he needs Tommy John surgery or not. Especially since it doesn’t appear to have had much of a negative effect on Jake Delhomme (who’s gone back to being the QB he was pre-surgery). What is his status as far as how well he’s recovered? Won’t this jeopardize his 2009 season if he waits much longer and it turns out he needs the surgery?
Herm Edwards will not be the Chiefs' head coach next season.
by UCrawford on
Dec 27, 2008 10:34 AM CST
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UC...just speculating but
My understanding is that the surgery requires 18-24 months of rehab. He turned 29 today (as a matter of fact). That means he’d be out for let’s say 2 years, so in essence he’d be lucky to play 2010, more like 2011 if he had it today.
That would mean he would be 32 years old and pretty much being in the twilight of a QB’s career. Take also into account that the surgery is 85-90% as far as success rate, so that would mean that timeline would be extended in case of complications.
I think he’s probably worried that having the surgery would mean the end of his career. If it comes down to him not performing and losing the starting job, then I could see him taking the steps since the option to play wouldn’t be an issue.
Bill Parcell’s: "You are what your record says you are."
The Chiefs need to be playoff contenders in 2009 for me to consider improvement. Clark wanted it in 2008...I'll give them an additional year.
Thigpen WILL NOT be the Chiefs starting QB next year IMO. He can compete for the job and should be 2nd or 3rd string.
by THE_TRUTH on
Dec 27, 2008 11:32 AM CST
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Here's some news on Bengals.com
Palmer was making 40-yard throws on Tuesday before resting Wednesday and Thursday. He is still on track to avoid Tommy John surgery for the time being, but is uncertain to be a full participant by Cincinnati’s spring OTAs.
Full story is here.
by Ochophosphate on
Dec 27, 2008 11:41 AM CST
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RE:
The story that Ochophosphate provides says it all.
However, Palmer’s injury is no where near as serious as Jake Delhomme’s was. He feels pain making throws (not now, but throughout most of the season), which he played with against the Cowboys; he had a pretty good game no less. He had no power behind his throws, but made efficient passes underneath. He went to five different specialists, asking, what should he do. All of them told him to rest. Just rest. Let it heal by itself.
The timeline in which to have the procedure, and return by the start of training camp (if not mini camps, or voluntaries), is still down the road; well, reportedly. So Palmer could realistically rest throughout the off-season and be all right. Or he could realistically have the procedure a few weeks from now and be ready — so he’s being told.
As Bengals fans, we’re confident in Palmer’s decision, whatever he decides. His off-season workout between 2005-2006 was legendary, tearing ligaments in his knee during the playoff game against the Steelers and returning to training camp and even playing in the third pre-season game. He didn’t miss a regular season game when most analysts, and columnists even advised that Palmer take off all of 2006 to be ready for 2007. It took him so time to have confident in the knee, but he finished the season with Palmer-like numbers.
Blogger at CincyJungle.com -- SB Nation Cincinnati Bengals blog.
by Kirkendall on
Dec 27, 2008 11:54 AM CST
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WR Jerome Simpson
As the resident Coastal Carolina fan here, I’ve been waiting for this matchup of titans all season long: Thigpen and Simpson. :) What’s the story/feelings on Simpson’s future there in Bengals land? I’ve been disappointed they haven’t given him more of a chance to play given how long they’ve been eliminated from the playoffs. Granted, he got hurt in the one game he did play.
They spent a second rounder on this guy, so I hope they have some plans for him.
by Kallor on
Dec 28, 2008 8:54 AM CST
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RE
The general thinking in the NFL is that wide receivers take the most time to adjust to the game — at least that’s what they say. With that said…
Simpson has taken a long time to adjust. In one play this year, on third and short, Simpson had a short slant called and Fitzpatrick made the throw. The cornerback on Simpson cut off Simpson, who did a poor job boxing out the defender, and the defender took the six-pick. He’s still learning, there’s no doubt. But…
They haven’t been playing Simpson as much as we’d like, especially since he’s behind guys like Chad Johnson and T.J. Houshmandzadeh (both will be out Sunday), and Chris Henry making some plays in the past two games. He’s basically the sixth receiver, primarily because he does very little (if anything) on special teams (Caldwell and Holt, the #4-5 receivers are return specialists and on most special team’s coverages). So in a lot of cases, he’s simply unable to be one of the 45 guys on the active list per week. Plus, he’s been hurt for a good chunk of this season.
However, figure that Caldwell and Henry gets the start at WR and Simpson getting his most playing time against the Chiefs. This could very well be the game that Simpson proves he was worth the second round pick.
We like Simpson. He is fiery, and has that competitive ego right now. He hasn’t played much, and he’s clearly frustrated — not mad at the team, just frustrated with the circumstances and his inability to get on the field. It’s a healthy frustration — not a T.O or Chad type of frustration.
The Bengals drafted Simpson (and Caldwell and Mario Urrutia) to rebuild the team’s wide receiver ranks. When they did that, there was a general belief that Chad wouldn’t be with the Bengals in the off-season, that Houshmandzadeh would sprint really hard into free agency and that Chris Henry was, well, he wasn’t allowed to play (per Goodell).
So Simpson wasn’t ever expected to make a splash this season, once Chad calmed down, and Henry returned. There’s still a chance that T.J. leaves, that Chad is traded, giving Caldwell and Simpson a leg up, not only with increased playing time, but the first two slots on the starting lineup.
Blogger at CincyJungle.com -- SB Nation Cincinnati Bengals blog.
by Kirkendall on
Dec 28, 2008 10:50 AM CST
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