Familiar Feelings Surround Chiefs' Loss to the Dolphins
by Chris Thorman on Dec 21, 2008 3:21 PM CST
in 2008 Campaign
68 comments
via NFL.com
Chiefs lose, 38 to 31.
Even a late fumble by the Dolphins wasn't enough for the Kansas City Chiefs to come back and tie the game. Tyler Thigpen's interception with under a minute left, deep in Chiefs' territory, was the final straw.
Three interceptions by Thigpen made the Chiefs constantly play catch up.
And, of course, the team crumbled in the second half. The Chiefs had 28 first half points but only managed three after half time.
Same old story.
Final stats are here.
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A lot of blame will be placed on Thigpen's 3 INTs
But I think that’s unfair. The last one was desperation so hardly counts.
Let’s look at the positives, he threw 320 yds and 2 TDs against a team which hadn’t conceded a TD in a long time. As a team they just don’t seem to adjust at half time. Thigpen did really well with what he has got and really a lack of defense in the second half yet again really let us down. Then we stopped running it forcing Thigpen into difficult throws, what do you expect.
Blame my wife!
by sir eccles on Dec 21, 2008 3:28 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
p.s.
how can Herm lay the blame for not finishing games solely on the immaturity of the players. They only do what you tell them Herm!!
Blame my wife!
by sir eccles on Dec 21, 2008 3:32 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Thigpen played really well
aside from those INTs (and a few other passes). I don’t want to take that away from him.
by Chris Thorman on Dec 21, 2008 3:33 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
not too bad
for what is still essentially his rookie season.
I hope he takes the opportunity this offseason to really bust his ass and develop as much as he can.
Nothing is guaranteed for him.
by Ochophosphate on Dec 21, 2008 3:35 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Did anyone actually doubt that the inevitable 2nd half collapse
was imminent? We did play hard the 3rd quarter, but we get so tight I am surprised that diamonds aren’t dropping all over the field.
by TheQ on Dec 21, 2008 3:32 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
A lot of blame SHOULD be placed on Thigpen
Lets be critical here. Thigpen didn’t lose the game for us, but he didn’t win it for us. Hes a great actually outstanding first half qb but when it matters most he doesn’t deliver (the second half). Thats a problem that should be put on the coaching as well but I just don’t see any swagger with Tyler Thigpen. When he steps in as qb, you only hope the Chiefs win. When Thigpen has the ball with 2min left you certainly don’t expect him to win it for us. How many weeks now has this happened where the offense has fallen apart??? Thigpen is a career backup and Herm needs to go. It would be so much better for the team if Herm and Thigpen worked out but they’re not so lets cut our loses while we can and move on
by AK_47 on Dec 21, 2008 3:35 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
How many QBs...
Win in the last 2 min, in their 1st season as a starter? Numbers, please.
Then keep in mind the rest of the offensive problems.
I will say if you think the verdict is in on Bones, I’m glad you aren’t evaluating talent for KC. JMO.
by Bleedingredandgold on Dec 21, 2008 4:23 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
you want stats, ok
0 – the number of 4th quarter comebacks tyler thigpen has led.
if you want more stats on the ineffectiveness of Thigpen in the second half Bob Gretz wrote a great article about that. I’ll try and find the link.
Seriously though it seems like Thigpen is constantly “lofting” the ball up whenever he tries and goes deep. He consistently underthrows the deep ball. I’m not sure if this has anything to do with arm strength but it is very concerning. I just really question Thigpen’s attitude and swagger. He just doesn’t seem to be much of a leader on this team. I think hes playing well but I don’t have confidence in him being our future starter right now.
Bleeding maybe you would care to have an intelligent debate with me about why you so strongly believe that Thigpen is our future instead of why I’m not the future GM. Plus I’m not talking about the rest of the offensive problems. My post have been singularly about mistakes Thigpen has made that can’t be blamed on anyone else. Throwing into double and triple converages, locking onto single receivers, lack of a swagger, and possible lack of arm strength.
by AK_47 on Dec 21, 2008 7:02 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not convinced he's the future
I /am/ convinced he’s good enough to work with, for now. QBs take time to develop, or not. If not, next season will tell.
What I am also convinced of is that unless we have a average or better O-line, one that can produce a run game from a conventional formation, i won’t matter if we literally draft the best QB in the daft (as opposed to thie first one – the first isn’t always the best). Perhaps the O-line can be addressed through later rounds & free agency, I don’t know. If our BPA is a QB, I have no problem with that – and let him compete, sure.
If Thigpen wins the position, then next season will be a good judge of his ability. If the next QB isn’t a FA vet, expect growing pains from the rookie QB, though. Rookies make rookie mistakes, even when they’ve been on a practice squad, and a 3rd-stringer.
I’ll take TT over Croyle and Huard. And I keep in mind that the draft is a crapshoot, so I don’t expect to find a savior there. As for FA, I remember Bono, and Grbac, etc. That’s a bit of a crapshoot, too. Teams don’t let elite vets go very often.
Who knows? Maybe after next wee, we’ll have a totally new staff in here – I should hope that the next GM (with or without a new HC) is more savvy than me & thee put together.
But despite his mistakes, I’m not ready to throw him under the bus quite yet. I can live with him taking the snaps next season, presumably behind a far better line, and perhaps with a better WR corps and a running game of note. Give him those, and if he can’t do it, then bring in the next guy. Then the next guy won’t have a target painted on his chest, at least. The Defense has some bad needs too, after all.
by Bleedingredandgold on Dec 21, 2008 9:15 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Lofted Passes
no shiz man… some of his passes could have been mistaken for punts. At one point the commentators made a statement about “hang time” on Thigpen’s deep throws. I know the wind was playing with the ball today, but this isn’t the first game that he’s had trouble throwing deep. He consistently underthrows his receivers deep. They almost always have to stop and come back for a jump ball or slow down dramatically (allowing coverage to catch up). I don’t know if it is because he’s waiting too long before chucking it (so he can’t throw it deep enough), or he doesn’t really know how to throw a real bomb (throwing more high than far).
by Ochophosphate on Dec 22, 2008 12:12 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Just wanted to be the first Dolphin fan over here
to say good game. Alot tougher than anybody could’ve imagined. Get a good GM and good HC and this team will be headed in the right direction. Good luck next week.
"I throw better than anybody in college and I can throw with anybody in the pros. There, that's what I think."
"I've been a Dolphin for 17 years, and I'll be a Dolphin for the rest of my life. That will never change."
- Dan Marino aka Quarterback God
by Little Nicky 21 on Dec 21, 2008 3:36 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Thanks, and good luck next week against the Jets
1-15 to Division Champs would be pretty cool!
by TheQ on Dec 21, 2008 3:38 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
They are proof of that.
It is hard to realize that Hope Springs Eternal when the temp is 9 degrees!
by TheQ on Dec 21, 2008 3:46 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Pretty much the same story since Thigpen came on
No win but improvement is there. Despite the three INTs, the team offense as a whole looked pretty good.
by Chris Thorman on Dec 21, 2008 3:45 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
3 pts in the 2nd half
Just sayin’…
by Joel Thorman on Dec 21, 2008 3:47 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I really do think
there is merit in what Bob Gretz said. That a team as inexperienced as us doesn’t have the repertoire of plays to fall back on that an experience team would. That really hurts adjustments.
by Chris Thorman on Dec 21, 2008 3:53 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
that, and...
we gotta remember how much of this offense is simply cobbled together, too. Primarily the line and the scheme
by Bleedingredandgold on Dec 21, 2008 4:17 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Etc.
Think the play calling was pretty good in the 2nd half today. Just that Thigpen was really throwing the ball bad in the 2nd half, his throws where all over the place.
by DLChiefs on Dec 21, 2008 4:14 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Throws all over the place was partly due to the wind.
That goes back to playcalling. The Chiefs all but abandoned the run in the 2nd half.
by Warden11 on Dec 21, 2008 5:49 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
It's no longer improvement
They way they played would be considered improvement after the Atlanta or Carolina game. They played this game almost exactly like the five weeks or whatever preceding it. That;s not improvement, that’s stagnation. They look more promising than they did at the beginning of the season, but they have stopped improving. So, we should stop using that term.
by Chiefs4Life on Dec 21, 2008 4:56 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
At least the Bengals won. I don't really have anything new to say that I haven't/ we haven't said all season long.
by DThomasReigns on Dec 21, 2008 3:54 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
ain't awarding a 2x4 for this fiasco
no one really laid the lumber out for the whole game, a few nice hits aside
by Bleedingredandgold on Dec 21, 2008 4:15 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Game reminded
This game like so many took me back to the Vermeil teams score 31 points – give up 38.
by DLChiefs on Dec 21, 2008 4:17 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Yep
Herm must have been having a heart attack with over 30 points scored.
That’s arena ball!
by Joel Thorman on Dec 21, 2008 4:18 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
For a while I was actually hoping the the score would end up like 55-54
but I wasn’t sure our defense could stop anybody when it mattered.
How can a team from sunny Florida come into Arrowhead in December with the temps in the single digits, and win? I can’t wait for the day that teams are afraid to come play us in weather like that! It just doesn’t seem right!
by TheQ on Dec 21, 2008 4:24 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Thats because
Thats because we have not had a good defense Vermeil and his flying circus attitude. Destroyed the great defense we had in the 90’s.
by DLChiefs on Dec 21, 2008 4:28 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Our defense has taken a huge step backward this year
after slowly progressing. It takes great players to have a great defense, and I am unsure that we have that? I don’t want to be too negative, since a lot of these young guys will continue to progress and they may someday reach Pro Bowl level, but right now we are the worst D in football and that says it all.
by TheQ on Dec 21, 2008 4:34 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
In the past 30 years
…the Chiefs have always AT LEAST won 2 home games. So Herm and Co. broke that record. We were improving our losing until today. We even stepped back in that regard and didn’t lose well. 3pts….geeez.
3 pts in the second half? Well, either the coaching has learned NOTHING the last 15 games or the talent they acquired is too inept to perform the plays the coaches designed. Take your pick…if you’re a Herm supporter or not.
Herm’s gone. UC was right when he said that after Peterson got the boot. I thought that maybe Clark would give him another season and convince the incoming GM to give him one more year. Ain’t gonna happen. Now we’ll REALLY rebuild. We got the players (some), got rid of the GM…now it’s the coaches/staff turn and it’ll truly be a rebuild.
As far as Thigpen is concerned, I see him as a 2nd or 3rd string QB. He’s lucky he didn’t get more INT’s. He’s had plenty of opportunity to be the man, but this year it’s MAINLY (not all), been passes to Gonzalez or Bowe…that’s it. The hangtime on one of those INT’s was like a punt….4.5 seconds.I say we keep him, but only as a backup.
Bill Parcell’s: "You are what your record says you are."
The Chiefs need to be playoff contenders in 2009 for me to consider improvement. Clark wanted it in 2008...I'll give them an additional year.
by THE_TRUTH on Dec 21, 2008 4:38 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Bradley got WAY more looks than Bowe, Truth.
"If there’s a god he’s laughing at us and our football team." - Ben Folds
by webby37 on Dec 21, 2008 4:48 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't give a rats butt
…after all these games he finally gives another guy a look? Give me a break. Thigpen is a TE playing the QB position. He’s comfortable passing to the TE since he’s used to playing it and he prefers that to any other position. It shouldn’t take a QB that many games to finally get the 3rd option the ball.
Bill Parcell’s: "You are what your record says you are."
The Chiefs need to be playoff contenders in 2009 for me to consider improvement. Clark wanted it in 2008...I'll give them an additional year.
by THE_TRUTH on Dec 21, 2008 4:59 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Thigpen's Played Well Enough To Earn Himself A Roster Spot Next Year
But if Bradford falls to us in the draft or we have a shot at signing Matt Cassel then we should probably do that. And it should be an open competition for the starting QB spot in training camp.
Herm Edwards will not be the Chiefs' head coach next season.
by UCrawford on Dec 21, 2008 4:59 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Absolutely agree UC and I'm going to make the same prediction you did about Herm losing his job for next year
….Thigpen will lose the starting spot if we get either of those guys.
Bill Parcell’s: "You are what your record says you are."
The Chiefs need to be playoff contenders in 2009 for me to consider improvement. Clark wanted it in 2008...I'll give them an additional year.
by THE_TRUTH on Dec 21, 2008 5:01 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
OR another FA QB depending on the GM's/NEW HC's acquisition
Bill Parcell’s: "You are what your record says you are."
The Chiefs need to be playoff contenders in 2009 for me to consider improvement. Clark wanted it in 2008...I'll give them an additional year.
by THE_TRUTH on Dec 21, 2008 5:02 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
There's Nobody Else Who Looks Good
Losman’s performance this year has convinced me that we don’t want him. Cassel’s it. If they can’t get him I’d rather the Chiefs kept Quinn Gray and just drafted a guy to be third-stringer. If it’s not Bradford, I’d root for Harrell with a second or third round pick.
All I know is that I actually have hope we’ll get a good QB out of this draft now that Carl Peterson’s not doing the picks.
Herm Edwards will not be the Chiefs' head coach next season.
by UCrawford on Dec 22, 2008 8:14 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Matt Cassell : 2000 :: Derek Anderson : 2007
Write it down.
-cw
"If there’s a god he’s laughing at us and our football team." - Ben Folds
by webby37 on Dec 24, 2008 12:54 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Actually, write down that I'm an idiot.
Matt Cassell : 2009 :: Derek Anderson : 2008.
Boy, do I feel dumb.
-cw
"If there’s a god he’s laughing at us and our football team." - Ben Folds
by webby37 on Dec 24, 2008 12:54 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
everything I've read
suggests the Pats will keep Cassel and offload Brady. You want that old man with a bad knee?
Blame my wife!
by sir eccles on Dec 21, 2008 5:11 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Who are you directing that comment toward?
I for one never said Brady.
Bill Parcell’s: "You are what your record says you are."
The Chiefs need to be playoff contenders in 2009 for me to consider improvement. Clark wanted it in 2008...I'll give them an additional year.
by THE_TRUTH on Dec 21, 2008 5:14 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
UC
He said if we have a shot at Cassel we should take him. I said that I heard the Pats were more likely to let go of Brady. Thus I was enquiring of UC if he would equally take old man Brady with his bad knee?
Blame my wife!
by sir eccles on Dec 21, 2008 5:18 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Gotcha...
…personally I don’t know. He’s 31. Maybe has 4 years left in him and that’ll depend on his rehab. If we do take him, then still draft a QB that’ll be our future and can learn from Brady ala…like Rodgers was in GB.
Bill Parcell’s: "You are what your record says you are."
The Chiefs need to be playoff contenders in 2009 for me to consider improvement. Clark wanted it in 2008...I'll give them an additional year.
by THE_TRUTH on Dec 21, 2008 5:30 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
How could you not take Brady?
he has the work ethic to come back and the proper mentality to succeed. Might remind us of another Pro Bowl QB coming to KC?
by TheQ on Dec 21, 2008 5:42 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
If The Pats Keep Brady And Let Cassel Go
We should go for Cassel. If the Pats keep Cassel I wouldn’t have a problem with grabbing Brady if we can get him for Derek Anderson-type money (then cut Quinn Gray, then draft a QB). If the Pats keep Brady and franchise Cassel, I say forget about Cassel because we’re better off with what we have rather than trading draft picks for him.
Herm Edwards will not be the Chiefs' head coach next season.
by UCrawford on Dec 22, 2008 8:17 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
But I Don't Think The Pats Will Let Brady Go
They might franchise Cassel, but it’s still Brady’s team. Keep in mind that Cassel still struggled against good teams out there…so if Brady can recover he’s still that team’s leader.
Herm Edwards will not be the Chiefs' head coach next season.
by UCrawford on Dec 22, 2008 8:18 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Completely and utterly agree
You should always look to upgrade talent on your ballclub and either one would be welcome to compete for the job. We are a bad football team so Thigpen doesn’t get all the blame, but he hasn’t done anything that makes him a shoe in or a Pro Bowler.
by TheQ on Dec 21, 2008 5:14 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
and that's my point as well TheQ
Here are the QB stats over 15 weeks…
http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?tabSeq=1&statisticPositionCategory=QUARTERBACK&season=2008&seasonType=REG
and look where Thigpen is located…near the bottom…specifically 25th. And before we say…“Oh, he was on a poor offense”…where do you suspect the 49ers Shaun Hill might be? How about 13th.
How about rookie Matt Ryan? 10th Pretty good for a “rookie” LEARNING how to play football…hogwash. That kids been playing and learning since the 4th grade. Those that can adapt and learn the fastest make it. It’s survival of the fittest.
How about Aaron Rodgers at GB? 9th. You think that GB knew what they might have been doing with the QB position. THAT’S evaluating and acquiring talent for the future.
Bill Parcell’s: "You are what your record says you are."
The Chiefs need to be playoff contenders in 2009 for me to consider improvement. Clark wanted it in 2008...I'll give them an additional year.
by THE_TRUTH on Dec 21, 2008 5:26 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
pah statistics
His numbers are skewed by his first games, what are Thigpen’s numbers if you only count the second half of the season?
Blame my wife!
by sir eccles on Dec 21, 2008 5:31 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
LOL...yeah, that's pretty funny
I think we should just use Thigpen’s best game and compare it to everyone’s worst game ;)
Bill Parcell’s: "You are what your record says you are."
The Chiefs need to be playoff contenders in 2009 for me to consider improvement. Clark wanted it in 2008...I'll give them an additional year.
by THE_TRUTH on Dec 21, 2008 5:33 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed
We will never be the team we want to be unless we are committed to finding a championship caliber QB. I definitely think Thigpen should be given a chance, and as it stands right now I see him as the incumbent starter going into next season, but I would love to have a Sam Bradford waiting in the wings, learning the Pro game. Every year we all get enamored with the ONE position that if drafted we would see immediate results, and we lose sight of the big picture. We have gone through some hard times, and we are probably bound to go through some more, it might as well be for something.
by TheQ on Dec 21, 2008 5:36 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
rofl
Raider are winning, Broncos are losing, funny old game
Blame my wife!
by sir eccles on Dec 21, 2008 5:12 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
If the Broncos lose they are in serious trouble
If they lose, then their game against San Diego next week is for the division title.
by Joel Thorman on Dec 21, 2008 5:14 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
That would be an awesome game
Who would have thought it when the Chargers were 4-8? Sucks that we could have been the ones to end their playoff hopes.
by TheQ on Dec 21, 2008 5:16 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
and our division is won with a .500 record
Blame my wife!
by sir eccles on Dec 21, 2008 5:19 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
That is a sad statement
and a very telling one. The once Wild, Wild West is a joke.
by TheQ on Dec 21, 2008 5:21 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
How the mighty have fallen
At least Denver and San Diego appear to be headed up….Both have solid QBs. Both running games are very questionable.
by Joel Thorman on Dec 21, 2008 5:22 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Rivers completely got snubbed in the Pro Bowl voting
and I would rather have Cutler than any other young QB in the game. Yeah, they are looking pretty good. Denver should be able to turn around the running game pretty quick, but San Diego has got to regret losing Turner. LT looks to be on the downward spiral.
by TheQ on Dec 21, 2008 5:39 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Unfortunately, I didn't get to see or hear the game
Everything I know about it, I am getting from the web after the fact.
Three interceptions huh?
How many were actually bad throws on Thigpens part and how many were actually catches that should have been made by receivers but weren’t? I am kinda tired of always hearing that a QB had x number of interceptions but where is the blame on butterfinger receivers with chronic dropsies ( Calling Mr Bowe )?
I have to say, I’m not surprised at all by a second half choke.
well, it’s almost over. There’s always next year.
Go Chiefs!
Big Bear
by bigbearomaha on Dec 21, 2008 5:37 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
They were all bad throws
and he could have had more…he had some throws that were just fluttering and were lucky that they weren’t INT’s.
Bill Parcell’s: "You are what your record says you are."
The Chiefs need to be playoff contenders in 2009 for me to consider improvement. Clark wanted it in 2008...I'll give them an additional year.
by THE_TRUTH on Dec 21, 2008 5:47 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Tyler
I think he’s a decent #2 at best and that is a lot more than any of us ever expected. As the games go along his accuracy fades, especially in the clutch. That’s not youth, that’s mettle.
by FrankPitts on Dec 21, 2008 5:40 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
True
Gretz had a great article about his 4th quarter stats. He definitely seems to shrink at clutch time.
by TheQ on Dec 21, 2008 5:43 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Theres no reason not to constructively critisize Thigpen
Its seemed to me that since Thigpen has been playing well everyone has jumped on board the bandwagon and just want to automatically make him the qb of the future. That thinking is what got us into trouble with Croyle.
I would like to see us draft a qb in the first round and give thigpen competition. I hate to use such a high draft pick when we have SO MANY holes but its too important of a position not to get settled right away on a rebuilding team.
This offseason Thigpen really needs to hit the weights (his deep balls are consistently short)
by AK_47 on Dec 21, 2008 7:09 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I Think The Wind Had Something To Do With His Deep Passes Yesterday
But I agree with you that Thigpen hasn’t played well enough to guarantee himself a starting job next year or to keep us from bringing in another QB via free agency or the draft (or both). I do think he’s played well enough to keep around next year, and I think that the 4th quarter woes can also be at least partially attributed to his idiot head coach’s playcalling, but I also agree he’s got some bad habits and a lot of work he needs to do this offseason.
Herm Edwards will not be the Chiefs' head coach next season.
by UCrawford on Dec 22, 2008 8:22 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
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