Where the Chiefs' Rookies Rank
Two games to go for the Kansas City Chiefs. It's the Dolphins this weekend and then to Cincinnati to play the Bengals. I figured now is as good a time as any to get some perspective on how our rookies are performing relative to the rest of the NFL.
We all have heard the cliche about not being able to judge a draft until three years have passed. That caveat still applies so remember that in your replies.
Glenn Dorsey (Against rookie DTs and DEs)
- T-1st in tackles (38)
- 2nd in solo tackles (29)
- 2nd in assisted tackles (9)
Brandon Flowers (Against all rookie CBs)
- 6th in tackles (58)
- 4th in solo tackles (52)
- T-4th in INTs (2)
Brandon Carr (Against all rookie CBs)
- 1st in tackles (66)
- 1st in solo tackles (63)
- T-4th in INTs (2)
Jamaal Charles (Against all rookie RBs)
- 12th in rushing attempts (61)
- 15th in rushing attempts per game (4.4)
- 10th in rushing yards (333)
- 0 rushing TDs this season so he's tied with a lot of people
- 11th in rushing first downs (15)
Brad Cottam (7 catches), Dajuan Morgan (21 tackles T-40th), Will Franklin (7 catches) and the rest of our draft class hasn't made a significant impact in terms of NFL numbers.
It's tough to quantify Albert's impact relative to the rest of the NFL. Actually, I don't want to do the leg work to manually search for and compare offensive linemen stats. For some reason, I can't find a good comprehensive source for info like that.
Factoring in the throwaway picks in the later rounds, the Chiefs' draft is still looking about as well in December as it did in April.
Comments
The Question Is
What will those numbers look like in relation to the rest of the league next season?
Herm Edwards will not be the Chiefs' head coach next season.
by UCrawford on
Dec 19, 2008 8:22 AM CST
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Do you think
Carr has more upside than flowers? I had a friend say," Flowers looks good". I said ," I guess you haven’t seen Carr yet".
by GHOST OF DT on
Dec 19, 2008 8:27 AM CST
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So Far Yes
But Flowers missed a few games this year and that skewed his numbers. I like both of them, in any case.
Herm Edwards will not be the Chiefs' head coach next season.
by UCrawford on
Dec 19, 2008 8:34 AM CST
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Also
You can make the argument that Carr gets thrown to more often as well, because teams are avoiding Flowers.
by Chris on
Dec 19, 2008 8:37 AM CST
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There has to be a stat for that somewhere
Right?
by Chris on
Dec 19, 2008 8:37 AM CST
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Times thrown at?
I don’t play, but I thought the ESPN Fantasy leagues had that statistic. I have trouble finding it anywhere.
by primetime 07 on
Dec 19, 2008 8:39 AM CST
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I Believe There Are
Haven’t got time today to look it up, but I think it’s tracked how many times teams throw at individual corners.
Herm Edwards will not be the Chiefs' head coach next season.
by UCrawford on
Dec 19, 2008 8:40 AM CST
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I
think Carr was a steal from what i’ve seen. It seems Herm can at least evaluate DB’s, Wonder why.
by GHOST OF DT on
Dec 19, 2008 8:39 AM CST
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Because He Was A DB
That’d be my guess. Despite my criticism of Herm as a head coach I agree he seems to have an eye for DB talent. He’d probably make a good DB coach. In fact, he said something on “Hard Knocks” that made me think he’d prefer that. I suspect that as a head coach he’s simply fallen victim to the Peter Principle and that he’d be much more successful in a job that’s not so “big picture”.
Herm Edwards will not be the Chiefs' head coach next season.
by UCrawford on
Dec 19, 2008 8:42 AM CST
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I think Head coach was a reach for Herm.
He’s not well rounded enough, so it won’t be long. “Hard Knocks” is what we’ve had to sit through with Herm leading the team.
by GHOST OF DT on
Dec 19, 2008 8:48 AM CST
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Peter principle
Employees are promoted to their level of incompetency.
by Chris on
Dec 19, 2008 8:54 AM CST
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That's The Dilbert Principle :)
The Peter Principle is better explained that a worker is promoted beyond his level of competence or into a position to which his skills are ill-suited. If you’ve regularly watched “The Office”, Michael Scott is an example of the Peter Principle. Scott was a great salesman who was rewarded for his production by being promoted to run his branch, but the ability to manage people is different than the ability to sell product so he became a subpar employee even though he’s still just as smart as he ever was, he’s working in a job where he’s made to look incompetent because it’s a poor fit for him. That’s why good employees are often better served not by promotion but by other incentives.
Herm Edwards will not be the Chiefs' head coach next season.
by UCrawford on
Dec 19, 2008 10:06 AM CST
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Peter Principle
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Principle
Although as I recall it, Peter noted that competence may not be linear. In football terms, someone who can’t play the game at the pro level may well pick up his competence as a talent scout, and up to GM, f’rex.
The Flip side is the Dilbert Principle, in short: kick the incompetents upstairs, & keep them away from the productive people. Dr. Peter noted something to this effect regarding prestige promotions of high-level execs promoted to meaningless VP positions, IIRC.
by Bleedingredandgold on
Dec 21, 2008 1:38 AM CST
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Hey... Theres a thought.
When Herm gets let go (since he knows he missed out on the San Diego State job), he’ll be at Clark’s feet, begging for a job.
“Defense? DB’s? Assistant DB’s? Accounts Payable? JANITOR!?!?! PLEASE CLARK!!!!”
Then maybe Clark will convince Bill Cowher to let him be the DB’s Coach.
We may be "playing to win the game", but it seems like we're coaching to lose.
'09, a new era begins.
For the land of the free and the home of the CHIEFS!
by ROC 27 on
Dec 19, 2008 12:12 PM CST
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Two weeks of Chiefs
football left. That is utterly depressing. Frankly I am not even excited about the prospect of another high draft choice. I think Herm has had his run as the Chiefs head coach. Rebuilding, yes, to coin a phrase, that is a good thing. However, even though the team has made modest gains on offense, the defense is still pathetic. I thought Herm was supposed to be a defensive “brain”. Maybe not so much with the defenses mired at the bottom of the NFL. I want to be excited about the team. Sayonara, Herm. Its been good to know you, but you have sucked long enough. Lets get a real coach and play some real football.
by G.L. on
Dec 19, 2008 9:41 AM CST
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Testify!!!
Lets hope Clark lets the new GM start fresh, with his guys. Who would want a coach, who has lost twice as many as he has won in KC?
by Eric Allen on
Dec 19, 2008 9:43 AM CST
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It occurrs to me...
Herm’s greatest weakness may well be in selecting and managing his coaching staff. If that is the case, then Carl failed horribly at his job, insofar as managing his HC, recognizing his strengths & weaknesses, and making sure he has the tools to have success.
Case in point: Solari. He appeared to be competent enough as O-line coach, and he shared Herm’s vision for a power running game, so Carl (loyal to his people) allowed the promotion, rather than bring in someone else. We all saw how well that worked. Solari didn’t have the skills, and Herm didn’t have the tools to bail him out, either. Second example: Cunningham. Herm was dtermined to run the C2/T2 style of D, and Gun had little experience running that. His success was with blitzing, man-on-man style Ds. Carl’s guy, and Herm’s scheme, and they selected between them someone who was unsuited to the D. Rather than admitting error by either man, Gun is left shouldering the blame.
Chan, OTOH, was eft with a Offensive ruin by mid-season, and no one could deny it. So by a strange twist of fate, he was allowed to bring his skills to bear, and build an O that was rather more effective. Makes me wonder what would have happened if Herm had told Gun to re-vamp the D in his own way at the same time. The conversation here might well be different.
Just a thought.
by Bleedingredandgold on
Dec 21, 2008 1:52 AM CST
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I have been ready
for a coaching change, for a couple of years now.
Lets hope Clark lets the new GM start fresh, with his guys. Who would want a coach, who has lost twice as many as he has won in KC?
by Eric Allen on
Dec 19, 2008 9:46 AM CST
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With all the stats i still see Albert as our best rookie....
But herm did well with this class….
Lets go Blazers!!!!!
Lets focus on the Draft Chiefs......
by bouzi on
Dec 19, 2008 9:46 AM CST
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Hey what blazers?
Might be able to draft, but cannot coach his way out of a wet paper bag. My opinion the jury is still out on his drafting.
Lets hope Clark lets the new GM start fresh, with his guys. Who would want a coach, who has lost twice as many as he has won in KC?
by Eric Allen on
Dec 19, 2008 9:48 AM CST
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was herm in controll of keeping Gunther?
If so he should go……
Lets go Blazers!!!!!
Lets focus on the Draft Chiefs......
by bouzi on
Dec 19, 2008 9:48 AM CST
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Again my opinion
May not be all Gunther, could be Herms’ cover two that Gun is uncomfortable with.
Lets hope Clark lets the new GM start fresh, with his guys. Who would want a coach, who has lost twice as many as he has won in KC?
by Eric Allen on
Dec 19, 2008 9:50 AM CST
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heck yeah the blazers!!!!!!
well i always thought it takes about 4 or 5 years to determine if they know how to draft…..
Hell Gunther wasnt good at what he was comfortable with … so do you blame herm… im no herm supporter… i could care less if we are improving on some aspect, but we all know Herm go stuck with Gunther
Lets go Blazers!!!!!
Lets focus on the Draft Chiefs......
by bouzi on
Dec 19, 2008 9:54 AM CST
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There are several blazer teams, what city?
Lets hope Clark lets the new GM start fresh, with his guys. Who would want a coach, who has lost twice as many as he has won in KC?
by Eric Allen on
Dec 19, 2008 9:55 AM CST
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Portland trailblazers, oklahoma city blazer hockey.....love em both
Lets go Blazers!!!!!
Lets focus on the Draft Chiefs......
by bouzi on
Dec 19, 2008 9:56 AM CST
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Hire Marty and throw some money at Dick LeBeau
We should have a bunch of cash ear-marked by Carl for some high-priced, past-his-prime, doesn’t-want-to-be-in-kc free agent. use that to hire these guys
"A good plan violently executed now is better than a perfect plan executed next week."
by bigbe on
Dec 19, 2008 9:55 AM CST
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I think LeBeau is the best D Coordinator in the league
But I think he is 71 or 72, I doubt he wants to leave his #1 ranked defense to come to the Chiefs, even for more money.
by TheQ on
Dec 19, 2008 5:37 PM CST
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Please dont make excuses for Gun.....
He sucks pure n simple …..
Hmm
Maybe Herm sucks too….lol
Lets go Blazers!!!!!
Lets focus on the Draft Chiefs......
by bouzi on
Dec 19, 2008 9:55 AM CST
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Before the cover two
Why was our defense on the steady rise?(with Gun)
Lets hope Clark lets the new GM start fresh, with his guys. Who would want a coach, who has lost twice as many as he has won in KC?
by Eric Allen on
Dec 19, 2008 9:57 AM CST
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Cover 2
There is not a DC in the NFL that could run a successful cover 2 with no pass rush. The pass rush is one of the major components and Gun got stuck with nothing this year. The worst part was the team didn’t even attempt to replace Allen, a DT doesn’t replace the production of a DE.
by tevans96 on
Dec 19, 2008 10:21 AM CST
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Thank you Eric.Thank you!
That’s what I’ve been saying, but as you know, arguing with UC isnt the the funnest thing to do.
But I think Herm just wanted to be so much like Tony Dungy or trying to turn our Chiefs into the Bucs so bad that he f’d everything up.
We may be "playing to win the game", but it seems like we're coaching to lose.
'09, a new era begins.
For the land of the free and the home of the CHIEFS!
by ROC 27 on
Dec 19, 2008 12:21 PM CST
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You're on target
Thats why if you watch the Chiefs’ defense you’ll realize that because of our lack of pass rush we are forced to run man-to-man schemes b/c we are blitzing linebackers to get the rush we should be able to get from 4. That is part of the reason are linebackers are appearing to “suck” so bad, they are Cover 2 guys that excel in coverage (except DJ who was already here) when they have to blitz we aren’t playing to their strengths + young DB’s in man coverage + aforementioned crappy pass rush = shitty defense
"A good plan violently executed now is better than a perfect plan executed next week."
by bigbe on
Dec 19, 2008 12:59 PM CST
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Hey Now, Roc
You’re generally okay with me. :)
I agree the lack of a pass rush is a problem, but Gunther also ran off at least one productive player from his defense (Harris) as well without having anyone to replace him, his defensive line should not have been this bad even without Jared Allen (Tamba Hali has regressed every year he’s been in the league) and there’s not much of a case that he’s doing a good job either.
Do I think the Chiefs are poorly built to run a Cover-2? Sure. I’m just skeptical that ditching it is going to be the magic bullet that makes Gunther an elite defensive coordinator again. When the offensive was unproductive Herm showed that he was willing to take a major step to change things by going to a spread, presumably at the prodding of Chan Gailey. Why wouldn’t he be willing to change out of the Cover-2 if his defense is the worst in the league if Gunther had ideas about how to get better?
Herm Edwards will not be the Chiefs' head coach next season.
by UCrawford on
Dec 19, 2008 1:16 PM CST
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When it comes to Gun and LJ...
We are like cats and dogs… But UC, I gotta tell ya… I love it. It makes the work day go by a lot faster.
Anyway, I think that it’s ultimately gonna be the GM’s job to figure out what to do. Just like Big “YOURE MY BOY,” Blue brought out, the coach (praying it aint Herm) and our new GM (praying it’s Pioli) will have to sit down together and figure out what kind of team they want, then go after the coaches and players that fit that system.
We may be "playing to win the game", but it seems like we're coaching to lose.
'09, a new era begins.
For the land of the free and the home of the CHIEFS!
by ROC 27 on
Dec 19, 2008 1:30 PM CST
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Agreed
It’s all going to depend on the new GM. But I honestly believe that the Chiefs are going to have a full housecleaning this offseason…one big enema that’s going to flush everything out in management (front office and coaching staff). And I seriously doubt Gunther and his bottom of the NFL defense are going to make the cut and stick around, pretty much for the same reason that Herm’s not going to stick around. Unless the new GM is 100% convinced that these guys can win games next year, why cast their lot and possibly squander the honeymoon year with a bunch of coaches who aren’t their guys?
Herm Edwards will not be the Chiefs' head coach next season.
by UCrawford on
Dec 19, 2008 2:27 PM CST
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"Why wouldn’t he...change out of the Cover-2"?
Perhaps for a couple reasons, UC. I’mspeculating, but consider this:
Herm was never a DC. He went straight from DB coach to HC. I’ve never heard anyone with a clue claim that HE couldn’t coach or evaluate the talent of DBs. As HC he’s selected a D-scheme that allows DBs to shine. That being said, it’s possible that Herm never learned to evaluate the Defense as a whole. When things go wrong on D, he falls back to his primary skill: player evaluation. The scheme can’t be at fault – the players are just making little mistakes here & there. Therefore, the D is just a little coaching away from being “there”, and maybe a player or two, as well. Note that the D has looked like a merry-go-round this season. Perhaps that’s part of the reason.
To paraphrase Will Rogers, Jr.: It ain’t what you know that will get you, or what you don’t know. It’s what you /know/, that just ain’t so.
Whether Gun’s tried to make his case, or has decided to ‘shit up and soldier’, I can’t say. But I suspect that Herm’s convinced that the D is ‘almost there’, based on evaluation of individual players.
Chan, on the other hand, is in charge of the Offense – somewhere that Herm /knows/ he has no skill-set. The inital design for this season was to treat the O as an extension of the D, with a clock-eating, ball-control O. When that fell apart, Herm couldn’t properly evaluate the personnel, and had no basis to oppose a philosophical change on O. Possibly, Chan promised that the O would play “conservative” ball, to protect the lead, especially in the 2nd half, as a precondition for being allowed to re-vamp the O. Chan could probably swing that, and demand that the D be able to protect that lead, and pick p enough stops, and/or defensive points to be able to win. Thus, the O has played in much the same fashion in the 3rd Q, especially with the lead., and the blame goes back to the D, and back to just being a little bit away…
Between Gun and Chan, well – Chan had a better record at HC, and had coached with the Steelers, back in a high-powered era (Incl 1 SB appearance). That carries more baraka and influence than Gun’s record, and possibly leaves Chan a bit more willing to challenge Herm on the issue.
Of course, tht’s speculation – what do I know? I’m just the guy who’s reluctant to burn the barn down in order to kill one rat… ;-)
by Bleedingredandgold on
Dec 21, 2008 2:24 AM CST
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oops... "Shut up and soldier"...
gotta love the typos!
by Bleedingredandgold on
Dec 21, 2008 2:26 AM CST
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Interesting to see these stats, Chris.
It would also be interesting to do the same with our RFA’s like Legget, Barth, etc.
by DThomasReigns on
Dec 19, 2008 10:14 AM CST
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We will
Remember….the offseason is loooong.
by primetime 07 on
Dec 19, 2008 10:37 AM CST
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I think the Flowers/Carr combination will be deadly in a few years.
The NFL will bow down to our secondary.
by Vince D on
Dec 19, 2008 3:02 PM CST
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Is the high number of tackles indicative of their talent
or does it simply reflect that they spend a lot of time on the field?
I like those players, but the tackles stat seems meaningless.
by dave-o on
Dec 20, 2008 10:01 AM CST
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They're not the end all be all
of how their rookie year is going. But it’s about all we got to compare them to the rest of the league’s rookie.
Take them for what they’re worth.
by Chris on
Dec 21, 2008 10:33 AM CST
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