Peterson Leaving Doesn't Change the Chiefs' Strategy
Yes, I know that Carl Peterson's resignation has been like the lifting of the Iron Curtain for a lot of you. Excitement and celebration is warranted, mind you. I can't sit here and say I'm not excited to see what happens over the next couple of months for the Chiefs. Peterson's resignation is the biggest Chiefs' story in the last couple of years and I don't believe that it's significance has been understated here.
But...that doesn't mean that a magic wand has been waved over this franchise. We still have the same players. Most importantly, we still have the same coaching staff.
Our new GM is not guaranteed to do a great job. Periods of transition like this aren't necessarily beneficial to an NFL team.
I do think that that Carl Peterson's presence, especially in the 2000s, really harmed the Chiefs' chances to win. I believe his strategy and personnel decisions had a direct impact on wins and losses over the years. And yes, I know that's the understatement of the year.
With that said, we've repeatedly talked about how, going back to last season, Herm Edwards and his coaching staff have been given more control over the football operations and the expense of Carl Peterson's control. About how it's more Herm and his staff's show than anyone else. The "rebuilding" strategy is the best evidence of this. From the Star on Monday:
With the draft approaching last spring, Peterson suggested to Edwards the team sign a handful of high-priced veterans. Peterson said that would ease Kansas City’s transition and might translate into a few more victories. Edwards recoiled, saying those players would steal playing time from the youngsters, and the development of those youngsters was the whole point of the rebuilding.
Chiefs' owner Clark Hunt chose rebuilding (Herm) over the plug and play strategy of Carl Peterson. I'll speculate that Carl Peterson didn't get shut down by Lamar Hunt very often.
You can describe Peterson's absence as a new era in the Kansas City Chiefs franchise and in a very public way it is. But the reality is that it's Herm's show and has been since the end of the 2007 season. We just didn't have any formal announcement about the changing of the guard.
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this is the second GM that Herm has rung up
is this a consideration when it comes to hire the next GM?
The only measure of true success in the NFL is the Vince Lombardi trophy. Anything less is a rationalization.
by sm7600 on Dec 17, 2008 11:21 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Please.
Right. Herm was the death of Carl Peterson with this franchise.
But, as much as three-quarters of the fanbase has been calling for Carl’s firing for the better part of a decade now, you all ought to be singing Herm’s praises and building statues in his honor in Crowne Center Plaza.
Instead, everyone’s like, “Well, I guess Carl wasn’t that bad after all. He did a lot of good stuff for this organization. FIRE HERM!”
So, what happens if they can Herm? Are you going to call for Clark to get rid of the team — to give it to someone else — because he just canned the coach who was rebuilding the team and everything went downhill because the vision changed … ?
Makes me think some people just aren’t happy no matter what they’re given …
by JacinB on Dec 17, 2008 11:26 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Why Would I Think Herm's Great For Doing A Rotten Job?
as much as three-quarters of the fanbase has been calling for Carl’s firing for the better part of a decade now, you all ought to be singing Herm’s praises and building statues in his honor in Crowne Center Plaza.
I didn’t hate Carl Peterson as a person…for most of the people who wanted him gone, it was about the results he failed to produce first and foremost. If Herm and Carl were showing tangible progress during their time working together I’d be defending them. But they didn’t…Carl did a terrible job and Herm did a terrible job, and that’s why people want them gone.
Instead, everyone’s like, "Well, I guess Carl wasn’t that bad after all. He did a lot of good stuff for this organization. FIRE HERM!"
That’s people being tactful and not trying to dance on the man’s grave. The people who wanted Carl fired are happy that he’s fired…most of them just don’t feel a need to shit on the man now that he’s not a problem any more. And most of the people who want Herm fired will be the same once Herm is fired. When Herm’s no longer employed by the Chiefs, there will be no reason to bash him or hold animosity towards him…unlike how most of the Herm apologists still love to bash and insult Vermeil and blame him for all of Carl’s and Herm’s failings even though he’s got nothing to do with the current failures on this team.
So, what happens if they can Herm? Are you going to call for Clark to get rid of the team — to give it to someone else
Tell you what…why don’t you try to argue against that position when somebody actually takes that position? Otherwise you’re just whining and making up fake arguments to insult other people because things didn’t turn out the way you wanted. If you’re unhappy with Carl Peterson getting fired or the prospect of Herm getting fired, I understand and can respect that position even if I don’t agree with it. But don’t be a fucking baby about it.
A GM should be given no less than five years on the job to prove his ability. After that he should be removed if it's been more than 2 years since his team made the playoffs or more than three years since his team won a playoff game.
The Chiefs should win 5 to 6 games this year and no less than 4 for this season to be considered progress in any way. If he can't win at least 9 games next season, Herm is a joke.
by UCrawford on Dec 17, 2008 11:45 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
You seriously need to get over it.
The poor results of the past decade can be laid directly at the feet of Carl Peterson, and his desire to overpay past-their-prime veterans for past performance, rather than keeping up-and-coming talent on board to build for the future.
Here are a few names to illustrate it for you: Ty Law. Jared Allen. Patrick Surtain. Kawlika Mitchell. Donnie Edwards. Keeping Elvis Grbac over Rich Gannon.
In 2006, Herm was saddled with a team that’d just gone 10-6. He couldn’t make the changes he wanted to make from the get-go because of Vermeil’s success. Then, that same team went 9-7 and made the playoffs. And, in the off-season, Carl hired more old guys because we were just one or two players away from winning it all.
So, that meant that in 2007, Herm was stuck with that same team and that same mentality from the front office. He had a team full of old guys that he couldn’t get rid of because they’d made the playoffs. And, then the wheels fell off.
In 2008, Herm finally got to do what he was brought here to do. He cut the old guys. He brought in rookies. We weren’t a player in free agency because we didn’t want the old, washed up guys anymore. We got all of our new talent in the draft.
Why? Because Clark bought into Herm’s vision. He’s doing things Herm’s way. Clark said as much. Herm said as much — that’s what his ’We’re all on the same page’ comment was about yesterday in the press conference. Clark isn’t about to bail out now.
And, while I understand that means that you’re not getting everything you want for Christmas, I’m not the one being a baby about it here …
by JacinB on Dec 17, 2008 12:06 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Get Over What?
I got what I wanted. The Chiefs recognized that what Peterson was doing wasn’t working and they dumped him so they can find a better strategy and a better leader to implement it. Herm’s going to follow him out the door. I’ve been on cloud nine since Monday.
And, while I understand that means that you’re not getting everything you want for Christmas, I’m not the one being a baby about it here …
When you’re making up fake arguments and attributing them to the people you disagree with, you are being a baby. If you want to disagree with what we’re saying, that’s fine I’m happy to discuss rationally…if you want to smear us with straw man fallacies, I’m fine with pointing out exactly how childish you’re being.
A GM should be given no less than five years on the job to prove his ability. After that he should be removed if it's been more than 2 years since his team made the playoffs or more than three years since his team won a playoff game.
The Chiefs should win 5 to 6 games this year and no less than 4 for this season to be considered progress in any way. If he can't win at least 9 games next season, Herm is a joke.
by UCrawford on Dec 17, 2008 12:11 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
What about him?
I listed him as one of the young up-and-comers that Carl let go rather than paying. Now, that said, I’m alright with what we got out of that deal. But, it still illustrates the pattern.
by JacinB on Dec 17, 2008 1:37 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Larry Johnson
Young up & comer who got a big payday.
Granted, he was Carl’s guy from the start, but that’s one exception to the pattern you described.
by Bleedingredandgold on Dec 18, 2008 2:14 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
See, I'd argue it the other way.
Larry was ready to break down after having carried the ball a bazillion times the previous season (something that no other back who’d accomplished a similar feat had ever truly recovered from).
Since giving him his big paycheck, he hasn’t run with the same passion. The ‘chip on his shoulder’ disappeared. He wasn’t ‘running angry’ anymore.
His number of games missed, due to injury and off-the-field idiocy, has increased and, when he does actually take the field, his production has dropped. In the two seasons before his big contract, he was putting up 1700+ yards per season. In the two seasons since combined, he’s still struggling to hit 1400 yards.
Rather than paying him a huge sum of money, we should’ve traded him then while he still had value.
Herm Edwards is Clark Hunt's guy. Herm and Carl forced Clark to choose between their differing visions on how to rebuild the Chiefs, and we all see who got their walking papers. Herm's going to be walking the sidelines at Arrowhead in 2009, and possibly even beyond, no matter who the new General Manager is.
by JacinB on Dec 18, 2008 2:55 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I need numbers & dates
IIRC, LJ got his $$$ /before/ getting run tinto the dust.
by Bleedingredandgold on Dec 19, 2008 6:55 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Not exactly.
But the reality is that it’s Herm’s show and has been for the last two seasons.
It’s been Herm’s show since the end of last season.
When the wheels fell off and all of the big-contract, overpaid veterans broke down and we lost nine straight games because Carl wasn’t willing to cut the guys who should’ve been cut and get younger, that is when Clark put his full weight behind Herm’s vision.
That’s when it started. Chris Mortensen (from ESPN) said as much yesterday, saying he’d heard rumblings that Carl was gone this year one way or another. Kent Babb laid out the reasons for it because of the tension that was building and the differences in the two philosophies.
Clark buys Herm’s vision of the future for this organization. Clark made his choice, and we saw who walked.
by JacinB on Dec 17, 2008 11:22 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Good point
I’ll make that change. I was being more general and it turned out to be incorrect.
by Chris Thorman on Dec 17, 2008 11:23 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Actually Herm is in a Win-Win-Win situation any way you look at it
1. If Clark fires him this season, he can blame it all on Carl and he didn’t have time to complete the process since it takes three years to get the value out of most draft picks.
2. If Clark fires him after next season, he can say he didn’t have time to complete the process and blame Clark for getting rid of Carl since the new GM didn’t back him.
3. If the team becomes a winner, he can claim all the credit.
We need a future defensive leader, his name is James Laurinaitis and he can be selected in round 1 of the upcoming Draft.
"But what do I know, I’m like an empty room with a large ECHO"
by Lanier63 on Dec 17, 2008 11:54 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Herm has to go
The only reason I hated Carl Peterson enough to get the axe is because he hired Herm. Every other coaching decision he made I liked. Things just didn’t turn out the way we wanted with Vermeil. Gunther was a hire that made sense at the time because he was a part of the previous successes. Yes he’s made bad personnel decisions but he’s also made good ones. I think it all comes down to the coach and Herm is one of the worst and Carl chose him.
Herm Edwards - the new Art Shell.
by CBaller13 on Dec 17, 2008 12:08 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
I Think It's Both
Neither the coach or the GM has total control over everything. No one individual does. But Carl Peterson is still the man in charge, he has responsibility for the production of the organization, and he’s the one who rightfully took the blame first.
A GM should be given no less than five years on the job to prove his ability. After that he should be removed if it's been more than 2 years since his team made the playoffs or more than three years since his team won a playoff game.
The Chiefs should win 5 to 6 games this year and no less than 4 for this season to be considered progress in any way. If he can't win at least 9 games next season, Herm is a joke.
by UCrawford on Dec 17, 2008 12:13 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Dude.."WAS" the man in charge
C’mon…get your head out your butt. You’ve said and written it so often it’s in your finger DNA ;)
Bill Parcell’s: "You are what your record says you are."
The Chiefs need to be playoff contenders in 2009 for me to consider improvement. Clark wanted it in 2008...I'll give them an additional year.
by THE_TRUTH on Dec 17, 2008 12:16 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
What?
Are you telling me I can’t suddenly expect the Chiefs to whoop division leading Miami by 50 points to zero on sunday?
Blame my wife!
by sir eccles on Dec 17, 2008 12:17 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
You Could
And I’d be happy to take your money betting on that spread. :)
A GM should be given no less than five years on the job to prove his ability. After that he should be removed if it's been more than 2 years since his team made the playoffs or more than three years since his team won a playoff game.
The Chiefs should win 5 to 6 games this year and no less than 4 for this season to be considered progress in any way. If he can't win at least 9 games next season, Herm is a joke.
by UCrawford on Dec 17, 2008 12:17 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Only if it were the Miami of yearn....last yearn that is...the 1-15 one
Bill Parcell’s: "You are what your record says you are."
The Chiefs need to be playoff contenders in 2009 for me to consider improvement. Clark wanted it in 2008...I'll give them an additional year.
by THE_TRUTH on Dec 17, 2008 12:18 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Keep Chan Gailey!
He is the first offensive coordinator since I became a fan in 1989 that I have actually liked!
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Dec 17, 2008 12:58 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
I Like Him Too
But if we get a new coach and he wants him gone, then I won’t squawk too much…unless they replace him with Paul Hackett :)
Food for thought, Cowher and Gailey had a productive working relationship. Think that Clark Hunt might have considered that too?
A GM should be given no less than five years on the job to prove his ability. After that he should be removed if it's been more than 2 years since his team made the playoffs or more than three years since his team won a playoff game.
The Chiefs should win 5 to 6 games this year and no less than 4 for this season to be considered progress in any way. If he can't win at least 9 games next season, Herm is a joke.
by UCrawford on Dec 17, 2008 1:04 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
"You can describe Peterson's absence as a new era in the Kansas City Chiefs franchise and in a very public way it is. But the reality is that it's Herm's show and has been since the end of the 2007 season. We just didn't have any formal announcement about
Chris I agree – and this is why some people have been saying that in a way, this is year one of the rebuild.
by PVChiefsfan on Dec 17, 2008 1:21 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Clean Sweep
I like Herm but the reality is no one will accuse the Chiefs of being a well coached team. They lose in the most inept ways and that’s on the coaches. My first choice is Rex Ryan.
by FrankPitts on Dec 17, 2008 3:01 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Rex would be a good candidate
Others:
Jim Johnson
Ron Meeks
Josh McDaniels
Jim Schwartz
Jim Fassel?
Gregg Williams?
I’m not a fan of Brian Billick, but his resume is pretty good.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Dec 17, 2008 3:10 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah ...
Herm blew the coverage on that Farve-to-Coles pass. Herm dropped the onside kick against the Chargers. When it comes right down to it, our young players making mistakes has nothing to do with us losing ‘in the most inept ways’ — it was all Herm.
Herm Edwards is Clark Hunt's guy. Herm and Carl forced Clark to choose between their differing visions on how to rebuild the Chiefs, and we all see who got their walking papers. Herm's going to be walking the sidelines at Arrowhead in 2009, and possibly even beyond, no matter who the new General Manager is.
by JacinB on Dec 18, 2008 2:58 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I know I'll be ripped for this
but I think Herm should be given one more year. I do suggest that he be ’cuffed on a lot of things but Herm has been great at motivating his players since he got here. Maybe he needs some better personnel around him? I just think finding a coach that players respect is not as easy as assumed.
by Ilamuku on Dec 17, 2008 5:10 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Yeah Herm has been so great that we've won
2 out of our last 23 or so games..Man He sure does know how to motivate those players..I think you meant that he “tries” to motivate..
by CALIFAN1986 on Dec 18, 2008 4:47 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
I'll guarantee to you that IF
Herm returns next year…we’ll see a huge turn around for this team. I agree with most that his time management is atrocious but I truly believe that next year will be a playoff caliber team that should take the division.
by Ilamuku on Dec 18, 2008 2:42 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Stats don't back you up.
In the ten games before Week 7 of this year, we were competitive in one game. One game. That means, in nine of those ten games, we’d lost before half-time.
In Week 7, we’d just lost big to Carolina in Week 5. We’d had a bye week in Week 6 to lick our wounds and then came out and lost big to the Titans in Week 7. In those two games, we’d lost by a combined score of 64-10.
In the eight games since then, we’ve had a lead or a tie in the second half six times. We’ve been competitive in six of the last eight games.
That’s not the sign of a coach that’s got problems motivating his players. It’s the exact opposite. It’s the sign of a coach that’s got the full support of his entire locker room. It’s the sign of a coach that’s got his young players believing, every time they take the field, that they can win.
Coaches like Romeo Crennel and Jack Del Rio and Tom Cable and Rod Marinelli and Marvin Lewis have trouble motivating their teams. They’ve lost their locker rooms. Their player’s a phoning it in every week because, no matter what their coaches say, it just doesn’t matter to them.
That ain’t Herm Edwards, and that ain’t Herm’s players.
At the start of this season, we said that we’d be happy as long as we saw improvement. As long as we saw a team that was making progress. We said that we’d be alright with whatever the record was as long as we were better in October than we were in September, and that we were better in November than we were in October. And, when you look at those stats — that we’ve been competitive in 75% of our games since week seven and only 10% of the games before (going back to last season) — you can’t honestly say that you don’t see improvement.
Herm Edwards is Clark Hunt's guy. Herm and Carl forced Clark to choose between their differing visions on how to rebuild the Chiefs, and we all see who got their walking papers. Herm's going to be walking the sidelines at Arrowhead in 2009, and possibly even beyond, no matter who the new General Manager is.
by JacinB on Dec 18, 2008 3:09 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Ummm...
In the ten games before Week 7 of this year, we were competitive in one game. One game. That means, in nine of those ten games, we’d lost before half-time.
In week 1 we lost to the Patriots by one TD thanks to drops by Dwayne Bowe in the end zone in the fourth quarter. In week 5 we beat the Broncos.
In the eight games since then, we’ve had a lead or a tie in the second half six times. We’ve been competitive in six of the last eight games.
Well then how about the historic stomping by Buffalo? Or the huge blown leads to Tampa and San Diego? How many wins did we get from week 7 on in the “good” period? And who the hell cares how “motivated” the players are by Herm if that’s not translating into wins? This isn’t college football. You don’t make the playoffs or the Super Bowl in the NFL because a bunch of writers for the Associated Press had a vote…you make it based off of wins and losses. Nobody should give a damn if the players like their coach if they aren’t winning. “Competitive” means nothing if it isn’t translating into wins.
That’s not the sign of a coach that’s got problems motivating his players.
How about 2-12?
It’s the exact opposite.
2-12
It’s the sign of a coach that’s got the full support of his entire locker room.
2-12
It’s the sign of a coach that’s got his young players believing, every time they take the field, that they can win.
2-12
Coaches like Romeo Crennel and Jack Del Rio and Tom Cable and Rod Marinelli and Marvin Lewis have trouble motivating their teams. They’ve lost their locker rooms. Their player’s a phoning it in every week because, no matter what their coaches say, it just doesn’t matter to them.
Romeo Crennel: 4-10
Jack Del Rio: 5-9
Tom Cable: 3-11
That ain’t Herm Edwards, and that ain’t Herm’s players.
What’s Herm Edwards’ record again? Oh, that’s right, 2-12…worse than all of those coaches (except Marinelli) who are likely getting fired this offseason.
At the start of this season, we said that we’d be happy as long as we saw improvement.
2007: 4-12
2008: maybe 4-12
As long as we saw a team that was making progress.
2007: 4-12
2008: maybe 4-12
We said that we’d be alright with whatever the record was as long as we were better in October than we were in September, and that we were better in November than we were in October.
September: 1-3
October: 0-3
November: 1-4
December: 0-2 (so far)
And, when you look at those stats — that we’ve been competitive in 75% of our games since week seven and only 10% of the games before (going back to last season) — you can’t honestly say that you don’t see improvement.
2007: 4-12
2008: maybe 4-12
Herm Edwards will not be the Chiefs' head coach next season.
by UCrawford on Dec 18, 2008 3:49 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
What's that Parcell saying?
Bill Parcell’s: "You are what your record says you are."
The Chiefs need to be playoff contenders in 2009 for me to consider improvement. Clark wanted it in 2008...I'll give them an additional year.
by THE_TRUTH on Dec 18, 2008 4:12 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I Can't Remember
Something about how football is a really shitty sport?
Herm Edwards will not be the Chiefs' head coach next season.
by UCrawford on Dec 18, 2008 4:15 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
LOL
“I’ll tell you why—I was goddamn miserable,” Parcells added. “Football sucks.”
“But coaching? All that pressure, having to deal with all those dumbass players, just to play a game that’s basically a lot of choreographed shoving?” Parcells said. “Screw that. Screw football. Seriously, I wonder sometimes why I was so good at it.”
“No one was more surprised than I was when it worked,” Parcells said. “Surprised and damn disappointed, really. Turns out football’s really simple. Hell, a freaking ape could coach this game. Guys like Belichick, Cowher, Holmgren, you know why they’re successful? Because they’re actually too smart to coach football. Come to think of it, I bet they hate it too.”
Notice he didn’t mention Herm ;)
Bill Parcell’s: "You are what your record says you are."
The Chiefs need to be playoff contenders in 2009 for me to consider improvement. Clark wanted it in 2008...I'll give them an additional year.
by THE_TRUTH on Dec 18, 2008 4:25 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
My Favorite Line
“You guys thought I was hard on them to make them better players,” Parcells added, “but really I was hard on them because, except for Harry Carson and that one blond guy from the Giants, I hated every man who ever played for me very, very much.”
And yes, I did notice that Herm didn’t make fake Parcell’s list. That’s probably because he’s so good at what he does.
Herm Edwards will not be the Chiefs' head coach next season.
by UCrawford on Dec 18, 2008 4:34 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Friggin Phil Sims....lol
Bill Parcell’s: "You are what your record says you are."
The Chiefs need to be playoff contenders in 2009 for me to consider improvement. Clark wanted it in 2008...I'll give them an additional year.
by THE_TRUTH on Dec 18, 2008 4:38 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

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