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Rebuilding the Chiefs: A "How to" guide to rebuilding the right way

Find more outstanding work like this from BBS at Stampede Blue.  -Primetime

Hi everyone. In case you didn't know, I'm a Colts fan, and I know a little something about team re-building. Pretty much from 1984-1995, my favorite team was "re-building." Like your Chiefs, we juggled mediocre QB after mediocre QB, signed bad free agents (Eric Dickerson), had terrible drafts (Jeff George), and set records for ineptness. The RCA Dome back then was not the loud, deafening hell hole for opponents it will be remembered for. Indy was a ghost town for football, and the Colts were the red-headed step child of the state's great sports heritage.

Then, something happened.

The old owner, Bob, got sick, and later died. His son Jim (a young, vibrant guy with a smart football IQ) took over the team and started making changes. His first move was to bring in a new person to run the football operations. This someone was someone that brought a "new set of eyes" and was "outside the organization." He was known as a "shrewd evaluator of talent" and had an impressive track record with other clubs.

That guy was Bill Polian. He used his first draft pick in Indy on U. of Tennessee QB Peyton Manning. You know the rest.

Today, the Chiefs are in nearly the exact same position as the Colts in 1997. Coming off an awful year, their new owner (the son of the late Lamar Hunt) has stepped in, asserted himself, and talked of change. And the change he has talked about sounds (to me at least) like the "good" kind of change.

Step one was getting rid of the dead weight (aka, Carl Peterson). No offense to Carl, but he represented the old way, and had to go. With Carl gone, and after reading new owner Clark Hunt's non-committal on the current head coach, Herm Edwards is done in KC as well. This means the Chiefs need a new coach and a new GM. They also will need new assistants, new scouts, and a new direction. What systems should they run? Who will they scout to fill roster spots in those system? Who will coach them? How will the front office be set up?

All these questions and more are answered here. Trust me when I tell you that this is the "How to" guide to rebuilding your team.

Star-divide

Before thinking about hiring a new GM, the owner has to sit somewhere, alone, and think about what kind of team he wants to build. He has to think about the current economic situation, the cash flow for the team, the kind of playing surface the home games are on, and the number of games they average in outdoor stadiums with potentially bad weather. All these will factor into the kind of team KC owner Clark Hunt wants to construct. Again, this is a real rebuilding effort; ground up, total redefinition of KC Chiefs football done the right way

WHAT KIND OF TEAM DO I WANT?

To offer another comparison between KC's current situation and the Indianapolis Colts: After the 2001 season, which saw Indy win only 6 games because their defense set an NFL record for most number of points allowed, Jim Irsay fired many of his coaches (including Jim Mora Sr.) and charged Polian with a simple job: Fix the defense, or you are gone. After Irsay hired Tony Dungy as the new head coach, Dungy and Polian sat down to decide what kind of defense they wanted. There are many different variants of the famed "Tampa 2" scheme. Some favor more blitzes (Tampa), others favor larger, more athletic DTs to stop the run (Minnesota). However, because Indy plays a guaranteed 8 games in a dome, one game in sunny Florida, and another in Houston, they decided that building a defense based on speed (not size) and pass rushing would improve the team. The results speak for themselves.

After Clark Hunt takes in all the variables (Chiefs are on good financial footing, play a guaranteed 11 games outdoors with one in snowy Denver), he can then begin looking for the kind of GM he wants to build his team.

So, at this point in our "How to" guide, I am now Clark Hunt. I'm a rich guy who owns a football franchise. Feel free to worship me.

But, before you do that, I need to find someone who can rebuild the former glory of the Kansas City Chiefs. My focus is simple: Find really good college scout directors on teams that draft very well and poach them for my open GM spot. This is what Atlanta did last year. They made offers to the scouting directors in Indy and New England, and the New England guy (Tom Dimitroff) accepted. There are a handful of teams that draft really well on a consistent basis: Indy, New England, NY Giants, those damn Chargers, Seattle, Philly, and Tampa Bay. Going through those teams, I see a lot of really talented people running the scouting departments for those teams.

Wait, time out. Before we go further, I'm sure some of you are asking Why the Pro Personnel or National Scouting Departments? Why look for a replacement there? Why not bring in a proven GM like Ron Wolff, Charlie Casserly, or bring back Matty Schottenheimer as a General Manager this time? Well, I'll tell you why. No offense to all the great things people like Ron Wolf and Charlie Casserly accomplished in their successful tenures with Green Bay and Washington (respectively), but for old timers like them the new, modern NFL has clearly passed them by. I remember the year Wolf retired, he made some comment to a reporter about how the NFL sucked now and was run by lawyers. He clearly didn't like these pesky little things like salary caps, revenue sharing, and league-focused parity. He liked it when he could draft whomever, sign them to whatever, and let them sit the bench for eternity. Same with Casserly, who tried to come back with the Houston Texans, only to get run out of their faster than David Carr (Casserly's first pick in Houston). And while some may long for the old days of Marty Ball (and the rumor mill is certainly buzzing), you must remember that I, Clark Hunt, said I wanted someone outside the organization; a "fresh set of eyes."

That ain't Marty. 

What I, Clark Hunt, am looking for is a great personnel guy; someone who knows how to draft talent, because NFL franchises live an die by the draft in today's football world. Remember all those teams I mentioned who draft well? Go back and look at their records. There are six Super Bowls in that group. This isn't rocket science folks. Draft well, or die. That simple.

GATHERING A LIST OF CANDIDATES

So, that said, I'm looking to grab a great, young, well-respected personnel guy and offer him a raise. My pitch to them is this: Hi, I'm Clark Hunt. I own the KC Chiefs. You are currently the Director of Pro Scouting for the XXXX XXXX XXXXXXX. You make about $400,000 a year, and you work with your team's scouts to find college prospects to build your team around. You also do a lot of work on draft day, and you have connections to colleges all across the country. I want to hire you as the General Manager of the Kansas City Chiefs. I'll pay you $1,000,000 a year for four years, and give you total control of the team's personnel. You'll get to hire your own scouts, negotiate contracts, and re-build this once proud Chiefs franchise. You will also give me input in who the coach will be. Whatcha say?

Nice pitch, huh. Now, who should I sell it to? I've been working and I think I narrowed my list down to three guys. Those gentlemen are:

Marc Ross, NY Giants Director of College Scouting

Ruston Webster, Seahawks Vice President and Director of Player Personnel

Jimmy Raye, San Diego Chargers Director of Player Personnel

For some of you, your reaction right now is WHO? It's OK. Remember, this is a "How to" guide. I don't expect you to know how to do this. Otherwise, why would you be reading it?

I've isolated these three men because they meet the criteria, and that criteria is: Shrewd talent evaluation, proven track record in the draft, strong college connections. All three of these men started out as scouts and worked their way up the NFL corporate food chain to become very successful directors. All are highly recommended, and are known in the industry as smart, young, and talented up-and-coming GMs. This is what I'm looking for. This is a fresh set of eyes.

But, which one of the three?

I'm give quick backgrounds on each guy:

  • Marc Ross is the Director of College Scouting for the NY Giants. Remember that Giants draft class from 2007, which was so instrumental in pushing them through the playoffs and winning the Super Bowl over the then-undefeated Patriots? That was all Marc Ross. Guys like DT Jay Alford, TE Kevin Boss, CB Aaron Ross, WR Steve Smith, and RB Ahmad Bradshaw all made major contributions to the Giants in 2007. Without them, they don't make the playoffs, let alone the Super Bowl. All are Ross guys. Ross came from the Philadelphia Eagles, who are themselves excellent at scouting and drafting young players. Well-respected Giants GM Jerry Reese said this about Ross when the Giants hired him in 2007:

"He has been a college scouting director. He was the youngest college director in the league when he was with the Philadelphia Eagles. So he understands the management and the dynamics of the department. Marc is an outstanding scout himself. We like that about him. All of the references that we called were very high on him.  We think he is going to be a perfect fit for us."

  • Ruston Webster looks young, but the truth is he's been building great teams for some time now. He was a scout for Tampa Bay during the Tony Dungy years, and eventually worked his way up to Director of College Scouting. It was Webster that helped build Tampa Bay's 2002 Super Bowl team. He left Tampa Bay to join his friend Tim Ruskell (who also once worked in Tampa Bay) in Seattle to rebuild the Seahawks after years of Mike Holmgren f&#king up the roster. Despite Seattle's misery this season, Webster's track record is very well respected. He drafted players like Lofa Tatupu and Leroy Hill; guys who are young mainstays and a young Seattle defense that (last year) was a dominant pass rushing force before injuries crippled them this year.
  • Jimmy Raye works for the evil Spanos family in San Diego. So, he has the taint of the Chargers on him. But, hold your nose for a sec, and look past your blind hatred. Raye is really, really good at his job. The Chargers are one of the best orgs at the draft, and Raye is a big reason why. Guys like Darren Sproules, Philip Rivers, Vincent Jackson, Eric Weddle, and others are the kinds of prospects Raye has helped SD draft. With the Chargers sucking this season, AJ Smith will look to blame someone else other than himself. He blamed Marty Schottenheimer after Marty helped SD win 14 games, and Norv Turner is not getting fired despite the fact he sucks. So, Smith will likely gut his personnel department in order to save face (classy guy, I know). This means the Chiefs could potentially add someone with insider knowledge of a division rival. From longtime, now-retired NFL scout Tom Marino [emphasis mine]:

General Manager A.J. Smith, another very decent person, must share in the blame for the Chargers rapid decent into mediocrity. It was he who abruptly fired head coach Marty Schottenheimer, after the latter posted a league best 14 and 2 regular season record. Smith and the Chargers have been for the most part non-participants in free agency and their draft day decisions have in my opinion been less the scintillating.

I like Player Personnel Jimmy Raye a great deal and feel he is one of the best young evaluators in the game today.

So, those are my candidates. All are considered some of the best talent evaluators in the business. All are young, bringing "a fresh set of eyes" to the org. All have no ties to KC. So, the question is: Which one?

PICKING YOUR NEW GM

So, we're narrowed down our list to three great candidates. Now, we offer the job. I'll dispense with any drama and say the person I will offer the job to is Marc Ross. Why Ross over the others? Well, he brings something to the table that I think the Chiefs will need:

Young, energetic, youthful guy with experience building a 4-3 blitz defense.

Yes, that's right. I, Clark Hunt, has decided the kind of team we will build in KC is one that will feature a 4-3 blitz style defense, one that has had tremendous success in Philly, NY, and Seattle.

Now, the reason I say Ross over someone like Ruston Webster (who also has experience building a 4-3 blitz D in Seattle) is because Ross has connections in both NY and Philly, where both franchises run those schemes. The scheme was practically invented in Philly under coach Jim Johnson. Ross knows the kinds of players that a team needs to build these defenses and he has contacts at several colleges that cultivate talent for such defenses. Since KC is in the Midwest, the club already has ties to Midwestern programs like Michigan, Ohio State, Missouri, Iowa, etc. With Ross, he will bring with him his connections to Big East and SEC schools, as well as connections to other East Coast programs.

07_0518_mr_medium

Marc Ross, NY Giants Director of College Scouting

Photo: assets.giants.com

Ross also breaks new break in a more obvious way. He's black (in case you hadn't noticed) and there are very, very few black General Managers. I could give you my opinion why there are so few (many NFL owners are crusty, old white guys whose only experience with black people is having them park their cars), but I do not think the young Clark Hunt is someone who would NOT shy away from making a statement. And what bigger statement that "Change is here" than hiring a well-respected black personnel man to run your football operations.

ESTABLISHING CULTURE AND PICKING A COACH

Now I'll take my Clark Hunt mask off and let's just sat Marc Ross is smart and takes the job.After a nice press conference, where Marc and Clark are seen as the new face of the KC Chiefs, ushering in a new dawn, now comes the time to establish a new culture in KC.

First and foremost, Herm Edwards and his staff are fired.

No offense to Herm lovers out there, but he is a world class, Grade A faker who does not know how to manage a football game, and knows even less about how a real NFL offense is supposed to run. I remember hearing about a sports columnist in NY (Steve Cohen) interviewing Edwards on why he wasn't using then-rookie Santana Moss more in his offense. Moss was a first round pick, and the Jets were desperate for big plays from the WR corps. Herm responded by saying Moss wasn't picked to play WR. He can help return punts and kicks. Cohen was understandably flabbergasted by this statement, because only morons draft WRs in the first round if all they are going to do is return punts and kicks. Cohen went on to say that Herm Edwards simply had no understanding of how modern NFL offenses run, which I guess explained why the Jets ran a West Coast-style offense in a stadium known for extreme windy conditions.

So, gone are Herm, Gunther Cunningham, Chan Gailey, and anyone else brought in by Carl Peterson. Clean slate.

Now that they are all gone, Marc Ross will work with Clark to hire new coaches. His connections in Philly and NY will help here. Hiring someone like NY's LBer coach Bill Sheridan, NY's d-line coach Mike Waufle or Philly's secondary coach Sean McDermott as the new defensive coordinator. For offense, since the model on D is the 4-3 blitz, the model on offense could also follow the Giants: 2 TE base rushing and passing team. Guys that could fill this need are giants WRs coach Mike Sullivan, or (if Cincy dumps its offensive staff) a really good offensive coordinator candidate is Bob Bratkowski. Bratkowski helped develop Cincy's outstanding WR corps, and developing quality receivers is vital for KC's success. For too long, KC has not invested in the WR position, and in this league you must be able to throw the ball to win.

But all this is moor when you don't have a Head Coach. Obviously, the head coach will want input in his staff. This is KC, not Washington. Now, with Ross's connections, the obvious choice is Giants defensive coordinator and Assistant Head Coach Steve Spagnola. He is a master of the 4-3 blitz, and is a hot head coaching candidate this off-season.

However, I am not sure "Spags" will be a good head coach. Time will tell, but the head coach must manage the football team and direct the team's culture. Spags is a more hands on guy. He'll want significant input in the defense, and he'll want to have his hands in everyone's pie. That's not a head coach. That's a coordinator posing as one.

The Chiefs need someone who will change the culture. Someone who will stand up and lead the team. Someone who is a good game manager and will work as the new face of the team, along with Clark and Marc.

Enter: Jim Schwartz.

While Schwartz is not known as a 4-3 blitz "guy," he has developed a stellar reputation as a defensive coordinator in Tennessee with Jeff Fisher. They run a variant of the Tampa 2 down there, but because of their backgrounds in Buddy Ryan football, Schwartz and Fisher love to bring pressure. They put a premium on safety play and d-line, and they come from an environment that was rebuilt itself from the ground up. Schwartz has his fingers all over Tennessee's great defense, and this off-season he will be a sought after coaching prospect. He's a smart guy, well-respected, and is someone who can manage a team. Here is what NFL.com's Pat Kirwan said about Schwartz:

Tennessee has always been known as a defensive team and Jeff Fisher has helped Schwartz develop quickly as an NFL coordinator. So many NFL assistants want to over-coach the players but Schwartz lets his smart players manage the game from the field. Kyle Vanden Bosch has the liberty of calling the line stunts as he sees fit; players love the flexibility. At 42, Schwartz already has 14 years of NFL experience

 

P1_schwartz_medium

Jim Schwartz

Photo: i.a.cnn.net

Schwartz also come from a place that has a well-established culture of resilience. Bringing that culture, that mind-set, to KC will go a long way to rebuilding the team.

So, there you have it: Marc Ross is your GM and Jim Schwartz is your new head football coach. Both a young, fresh faces without ties to the current Chiefs organization. Take a bow, boys.

THE DRAFT, AND BEYOND THE INFINITE

Now that KC has its new GM and coach, the focus shifts to the draft and the rebuilding of the Chiefs. As the team moves forward, establishing the right "winning culture" is important for sustained success. now, the term "winning culture" is thrown around by a lot of people. Unlike them, I will define what a "winning culture" is.

To establish a successful culture, the general manager, the owner, and the head coach have to sit down (together!) and agree on what that culture is and what the values are. Again, this is done together as a team. Obviously, the owner is the leader in the discussion, but he ABSOLUTELY MUST foster and nuture a relationship with his GM and coach that they can talk freely about what they think. If Clark Hunt does not establish that from the get-go, a "winning culture" is just another set of empty words.

Some great cultural values to wrap your franchise around are:

  • Establish a "player first" policy. Make it known that the health and well-being of the players is the #1 priority of the team; higher than winning. Winning at the expense of a players health is winning "the wrong way." Toss aside the unhealthy philosophy of "win at all costs," and develop a policy that stresses player health. This is not a policy that rewards laziness. The crux of the policy is if a player is hurt, the team will not pressure that player to get back on the field. The focus is then shifted to getting that player as healthy as possible, not jeopardizing his short or long term health just to "get a win." Healthy, happy players will result in loyal, fiercely dedicated players who will be proud to wear a Chiefs uniform. 
  • Establish a "zero tolerance" policy. The team is everything. Assholes and prima donnas can go sign with Oakland. This is Kansas City. You either buy into the team, or you are not with the franchise. This policy is done at the expense of talent. It doesn't matter if the guy can fly! If he is a me-first person, he is not worth investing in. Men who are willing to be part of one big team are what you want, and anyone who compromises the team, no matter his status, is GONE. Example: The Colts cut their best DT this season after Week One because he was caught speeding while smoking a joint. The player (Ed Johnson) reacted to a tough opening loss to the Bears by getting high and getting arrested. Result: Unemployment. Indy struggled initially without him, but eventually righted the ship and now are stronger for it. The message to the players was simple: You are here to play football for this team. Shape up, or hit the bricks.
  • Insist on bi-monthly or monthly, mandatory meetings between your position coaches and your scouts. Scouts have a way of wanting to get "their guys." Coaches have a way of not always wanting someone a scout dumps on them. Then, when that someone doesn't work out, the result is finger pointing between scouts and coaches. Nip this in the bud before it happens! Demand the scouts have meetings with the position coaches. Insist those coaches tell the scouts what they are looking for. The scouts, now armed with that info, can go out and get someone that fits what the coaches want and need. It makes everyone feel they are part of the team, and it makes them all accountable when something goes well or wrong. Finger pointing kills football teams. Be pro-active in stopping it. 
  • The voice of the team is the coach, and no one else. This is a big, big point. When things go well or wrong, the voice of the entire team is the head coach. If players (cough-Jeremey Shockey-cough) don't buy into that, get rid of them. Talent is secondary to the team, remember. The coach must be the sole voice of the club. This is not suggesting that assistants be barred from talking to media. Only Nazis (Bill Parcells, Bill Belichick) practice that shit. A better alternative is to politely remind the assistants and the players that when something happens, defer to the coach. If someone doesn't, then kindly ask them to leave the facility and never come back. This simplifies things for people and puts the burden of team communication to the media on the coach. In theory, the people on your team will thank you. No one who is "team first" wants to talk to the media. Only ego-head-cases want to do that, and they shouldn't be part of your team, period.
  • Finally, encourage discussion in meetings. Loyalty is not being a "yes man." Loyalty is having the balls to tell your boss he is fucking up and needs to listen to you. If the boss fires you for saying that, he is a shitty boss and won't amount to anything anyway. So, working for him was a waste. When Clark Hunt meets with Marc Ross; when Jim Schwartz meets with his assistants; when your scouts meet with your coaches; dissent in those closed meetings should be encouraged. Outside those meetings, the coach's word is lord. Inside, TALK TO EACH OTHER! The best employee in the world is one who is honest with you. When you have such an employee, work like mad to keep him or her. They are fighting to make you and your team better. If they weren't, they wouldn't be honest with you. They'd hide stuff from you or lie in order to save their own asses. Reward them for honesty.

Once you establish clear, well-defined policies like these, it will foster a healthy, happy team that will be even keeled. All teams have success and failure. It is how you deal with those peaks and valleys that allows you to have more success than failure. And it is the even keeled, steady teams that are the most successful.

FINAL THOUGHTS

Obviously, there are lots of different ways to rebuild a football team, and the Chiefs do not have to follow this blueprint to the letter in order to become successful again. Marc foster doesn't have to be the GM, and Jim Schwartz doesn't have to be the head coach. But the core, basic values I've outlined will push KC in the right direction.

Always remember, there is a right and wrong way to win. One way preaches a "win at all costs" mentality, and the results are things like like "Spygate" and other embarrassments that question your team's legacy. The other way is the right way: Caring about your players; encouraging discussion; making people feel part of something special; treating people with respect and dignity. This is how truly great franchises are formed. That, my friends, is what a "culture of winning" really is.

The Kansas City Chiefs are one of the great franchises in the NFL. They embody what pro football stands for in America: The possibility for a small market to house a pro team and be successful. Franchises like KC must succeed in order for the NFL not to descend in MLB or NBA territory, where big markets dominate small ones. In order for the Chiefs to become great again, they must usher in a new and complete reboot of the franchise. This "How to" manual has hopefully shown you (the all-important, paying fan) the best way to do it.

Cheers from this Colts fan.

--BigBlueShoe

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of Arrowhead Pride's writers or editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of Arrowhead Pride writers or editors.

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Thanks!

A brilliant piece of work…

by PVChiefsfan on Dec 17, 2008 1:12 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

And youre a Colts fan?

Thanks.

I was thinking about Steve Spagnola.

Does Jim Schwartz have a wandering eye? THENIDONTWANTHIM!!

by ROC 27 on Dec 17, 2008 1:19 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

WPI reports
1. Scott Pioli (V.P. Football Operations – New England Patriots)

He’s the hottest name in the GM carousel this offseason. Pioli has already turned down offers from Seattle and Atlanta in recent years. Depending on who you speak with he’s really a personnel guy, who reports directly to Patriots Head Coach Bill Belichick. Clearly that system has served them well. Even though the Patriots could end the season 11-5 and miss the playoffs, it only adds to the value that Pioli has brought to the organization.

However, for Hunt to lure Pioli away from the Patriots and keep him from heading to Cleveland to run the Browns, he’s going to have to open the wallet. Pioli is an east-coast guy with ties to the Cleveland area, and will need major bucks to leave the Northeast and come to the heartland.

The good news for Chiefs fans who think this is a long shot is the fact one of Hunt’s closest friends in the NFL ownership arena is Jonathan Kraft, the son of Patriots owner Bob Kraft. That relationship could bridge any hesitancy about Pioli taking over in Kansas City. Right now he’s number one with a bullet for Hunt.

http://kan.scout.com/2/822110.html

by ROC 27 on Dec 17, 2008 1:20 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

PFW
There’s a growing sentiment around Foxborough that personnel chief Scott Pioli could be tempted into leaving the Patriots this offseason to take over as general manager for another organization. Although he’s regarded as one of the premier talent evaluators in the league, he has never received nearly the type of credit for the Patriots’ success as his close friend Bill Belichick.

by ROC 27 on Dec 17, 2008 6:11 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Thanks!

I am really optimistic that Clark can get this thing turned around. No more endless rebuilding. Does anybody have Clark’s email so this can be brought to his attention?

by ryan_andersen98 on Dec 17, 2008 1:21 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Outstanding work, BBS

This doesn’t we have to be fans of Peyton, right? Seriously, though, thanks.

by Joel Thorman on Dec 17, 2008 1:21 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

this was an amazing post

thorough, detailed, and to the point. thanks BBS! rec’d

by The DBowe Show on Dec 17, 2008 1:27 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Thanks

Glad you like the article. Sorry for the grammatical stuff. I’ve been going back through it and fixing the grammar and some spelling.

One thing I like to write about is building franchises, and building them the right way. I’ve seen far too many shitty rebuilding efforts. If you are going to rebuild, you must go whole hog. Tear down the old and build up the new.

SB Nation's Indianapolis Colts blogger at Stampede Blue. Please make an account and post a diary, add some comments, and make some noise. Accounts are free, and only require an email address.

by BigBlueShoe on Dec 17, 2008 1:28 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Yup

And, if Indy is any indication, it all starts with the QB. Say…what are the chances Chris Polian leaves his dad’s shadow? :)

by Joel Thorman on Dec 17, 2008 1:29 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Zero

They are grooming him to replace Bill when Bill retires.

And yes, it does start with a QB. No QB, no wins. This is a QB-driven league.

SB Nation's Indianapolis Colts blogger at Stampede Blue. Please make an account and post a diary, add some comments, and make some noise. Accounts are free, and only require an email address.

by BigBlueShoe on Dec 17, 2008 1:30 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

That's what I figured

And as for the QB, it all starts with a competent GM to select the appropriate QB which Carl Peterson wasn’t.

by Joel Thorman on Dec 17, 2008 1:36 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Agreed

Carl was important for KC to ascend, but change was needed.

SB Nation's Indianapolis Colts blogger at Stampede Blue. Please make an account and post a diary, add some comments, and make some noise. Accounts are free, and only require an email address.

by BigBlueShoe on Dec 17, 2008 1:37 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Completely agree with that statement

It all starts with the QB position and I hope the Chiefs address it early in next year’s draft.

by TheQ on Dec 17, 2008 2:09 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Another policy to consider

Develop a “if you can play, we will draft you” policy. Send your scouts to any school, anywhere in the world. Don’t simply focus on the big schools. Remember, Lawrence Phillips played at Nebraska. If a kid from Middle Tennessee Tech Bumfuckville University can play, don’t pass him by because some kid at OSU is tall and looked good beating Michigan State. Tell all these small schools that if they have kids that can play, your team will look at them. This can help both during the draft rounds AND in signing undrafted rookies after the draft.

SB Nation's Indianapolis Colts blogger at Stampede Blue. Please make an account and post a diary, add some comments, and make some noise. Accounts are free, and only require an email address.

by BigBlueShoe on Dec 17, 2008 1:40 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

I think we've already established that.

In 2007, we drafted Michael Allan (TE), from Division III Whitworth up in Washington in the 7th round.

In 2008, we drafted Brandon Carr (CB), from Division II Grand Valley State, in the 5th round and he has been a starter for a couple of months now. We also signed Maurice Leggett as an undrafted free agent out of Valdosta State, who has been our nickelback the past two months-or-so, and even made a spot start or two when Brandon Flowers was out.

There have been countless other examples, but those are the three main ones.

Herm loves the small school kids, and we have plenty of them on our roster and practice squad.

by rockchalk on Dec 17, 2008 8:54 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Outstanding Post, Big Blue

I don’t think you made a single point I disagreed with.

A GM should be given no less than five years on the job to prove his ability. After that he should be removed if it's been more than 2 years since his team made the playoffs or more than three years since his team won a playoff game.

The Chiefs should win 5 to 6 games this year and no less than 4 for this season to be considered progress in any way. If he can't win at least 9 games next season, Herm is a joke.

by UCrawford on Dec 17, 2008 1:46 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

....

And hell just froze over.

by Joel Thorman on Dec 17, 2008 1:56 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

What?

Not my fault none of you guys can make a case like Blue can :)

Herm Edwards will not be the Chiefs' head coach next season.

by UCrawford on Dec 17, 2008 2:03 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

LOL

The Peterson firing is uniting us!

by Joel Thorman on Dec 17, 2008 2:04 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

hilarous...

as I look at nearly one foot of snow outside… Southern Cali it should still be in th 60’s hmm Carl gets fired and UC with nothing to say… I want part of those lotto winnings UC :)

by KC FAN IN CA on Dec 17, 2008 3:57 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

What's There To Say?

Peterson’s gone, he’s not a problem for this team any more, time to move on. I wish the guy well and hope he’s happy in retirement.

I’ll say the same about Herm once he’s fired. But I won’t be waxing nostalgic about the good things he did when he was here because there really weren’t too many.

Herm Edwards will not be the Chiefs' head coach next season.

by UCrawford on Dec 17, 2008 4:15 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I'm still bitter though

about that playoff game against you guys in 2006. And 2003. And 1995. Damn Colts.

by Vince D on Dec 17, 2008 1:48 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

nazi's?

Brilliant analysis…however I think you just said that two of the best in the business were nazi’s Parcells, Bill Belichick ….hmmm maybe that is the model we should use?

And your attempt to state that the west coast offense was inadequate in the jets stadium because of wind conditions…what planet is that from. I watched Joe Namath in that stadium throw passes that were 35 yards down field that were so perfectly thrown in the windy conditions that there was no possilbe way a defender could defend against them. It is obvious that your opinions are skewed based in part by your dislike of Herm when you use such arguements…Namath made those windy conditions look like easy…as did a few other quaterbacks who have played there. THe jets had a long history of lousy players and it was not the system that was the problem.

Hey I am leaning to wards a new coach…but your idea that Herm is a world class faker…is another one of your extreme postions….a faker does not get to the playoffs 4 times out of 8 years and won two playoff games and was one field goal away from the finals…that is not a bad record…In fact it is one of the better records for coaches that are currently employed.. And also there is not any doubt that the players love him as he was ranked by a poll of all Players in the NFL as being one of the best coaches to play for in the NFL. Players talk about coaches alot so this is a valid poll. If he was a faker than they would not have evaluated him that way..I would trust players who actually play in the NFL over your opinion. Perhaps because the players like him they tried harder and that may have influenced his success…either way it is part of who Herm is…he has weaknesses and strengths like every coach does…

However even though I will defend Herm to some deegree I tend to agree with you that maybe we need a complete house keeping. I am not sure if we should change coaches or not (there are rational reasons to keep Herm and rational reasons to get rid of him) ..however there maybe too much water under the bridge…and I somewhat agree with you that it might be better for a complete house cleaning as you suggest…

by writer on Dec 17, 2008 1:56 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Writer

The complete house cleaning worked for the Colts, Atlanta, Miami. Looks like it is a recipe for success to me. Hell the Cardinals with a COMPETENT second year coach has won their division for the first time in thirty some years.

Lets hope Clark lets the new GM start fresh, with his guys. Who would want a coach, who has lost twice as many as he has won in KC?

by Eric Allen on Dec 17, 2008 2:04 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

good points...

cant argue with that…and I would not imagine any GM who did not want to have his guy in there…so I would expect that to happen. Although you have to remember it was our owner that wanted us to build our team primarily thru the draft and not thru free agency……I heard him interviewed about that point. SO in a sense our ownership is part of the situation we now find ourselves in…but the good thing is that he taking this situation by the horns. He did not have to announce this til after the season…I like the fact that he is now an active player..

by writer on Dec 17, 2008 3:40 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

a faker does not get to the playoffs 4 times out of 8 years and won two playoff games and was one field goal away from the finals

No, but a faker does take teams that someone else built to the playoffs before completely destroying them…

"In the NFL, coaching has to make a difference when the games are close. The talent level across the league from team to team is too similar. Great head coaches do their best work in the fourth quarter when the game is on the line. Instead, we’ve seen Herm blow timeouts, put the game in the hands of the league’s worst defense, and most recently, run Larry Johnson behind Wade Smith and Adrian Jones as if they were Tim Grunhard and Will Shields in their prime.
Dr. Frankenstein is gone, but his monster is still roaming the sideline at Arrowhead Stadium." -C.E. Wendler, Warpaint Illustrated

by IISaiNtII on Dec 17, 2008 2:27 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Herms record...

ok lets not try to rewrite history….herm took over a Jets team that had been to the playoffs 1 time in about 15 years plus or minus one or 2 years. That team had not been to the playoff in the previous two years. He proceeded to take them to the playoffs the next two years and missed on the third year, took them almost to the championship game the fourth year and after numerous injuries on year 5 including all three quarterbacks, had a terrible season. No where is that running a team into the ground. And then the Jets brought in a New England CLone for a coach and until this year they did not do anything…until they brought in an all pro quarterback…again a case to be made that the players make the difference not the system.

And this team as was discussed numerous had not had a playoff win in numerous years and between losing draft picks to pick up players and coaches and having an aging team we lost that edge. Everyone says this team was due to fall…it should have been rebuilt earlier but that was not Carls way of doing things…carl did not feel comfortable playing rookies …he wanted veterins…and would pay them before rookies….also he wanted a win right now rather than building for the future because they gave away good draft picks…and it eventually caught up to the Chiefs….that pattern existed way before Herm got here…

Now as to CE Wendlers point in Running to the right side…I have the game on tape and there were numerous good runs to the right side…check the tape….but we have had a problem making one yard all year no matter which side it is…there is not any doubt though the time outs were blown…and that falls directly on coaching which is why I think we need a full house cleaning…that plus our GM will want a new coach…and we despartely need a new GM…

by writer on Dec 17, 2008 3:57 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Herm's Record

More losses than wins. Never got to a Super Bowl. Never got to an AFC Championship game. One division title in eight years. Never won more than 10 regular season games in any year. Lost more than 2/3 of his games in Kansas City.

I don’t care what his excuses for the lack of results were. The results are the only thing that matter.

Herm Edwards will not be the Chiefs' head coach next season.

by UCrawford on Dec 17, 2008 4:18 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

You can not argue my points crawford...

so you bring up other points….my points stand as does yours…the fact is his record is good one for getting to the playoffs….and the arguement for keeping him is that he wanted to do rebuild years ago and should be allowed another year to complete what he started since our owner was the one who wanted this. Also he has the support of the players as they love him. He gets more out of his players than most coaches regardless of his weaknessess….but I defer to the new GM….here is part of a post by Nick Wright from 610 sports Justifying the case for Herm at least for next year…he brings up some good points. I took some of that post out and put it here…for the full post check out 610..,.

The Case for Herman Edwards
First of all, this is what I know about Herman Edwards. He has the unyielding respect of that locker room. Every player I have ever talked to, every single one, has reiterated not only that they respect Herm as a coach, but look to him as a leader—for some a father figure. I have heard, and many of you have heard on the show, Derrick Johnson, Jarrad Page, Turk McBride, Tank Tyler, Herb Taylor, Tyron Brackenridge, Jeff Webb, Bernard Pollard, all, every single one of them express their support of Herm Edwards.

That matters. It absolutely, undeniably matters. In weeks 5 and 7, sandwiched around a bye week, the Kansas City Chiefs looked as terrible as they have in my entire life. Without question. There have been some bad moments…

there was a 42-0 loss to the Dolphins in an 11 loss season in 87…There were the 3 straight losses to end the 96 season at 9 and 7, between two 13 and 3 seasons, no less… There was the Monday night home beatdown by the Broncos as Marty’s final season was spiraling out of control… the back to back tough losses at the Cowboys and Giants to effectively end the season of a pretty good ’05 team…

But the 34-0 loss to the Panthers, followed by a 34-10 beatdown by the Titans, was, without question, the lowest moment in my life as a Chiefs fan. At that moment, the incredibly young team had lost 14 of its previous 15 games, had no quarterback, had a running back in crisis, its defense had given up 537 rushing yards in its last 2 games, and the team had been beaten by 15, 24, 34 and 24 in its last 4 losses. There was no hope.

And then, week 8 rolled around. And rather than losing his locker room, or losing his players, Herman Edwards had his players playing harder and better than they had all year. Since those back to back losses, this team has played 8 games. The Chiefs have had 4th quarter leads or ties in 6 of those 8 games. Now let that sink in for a minute. 6 of the past 8 weeks the Chiefs were in position to win the game.

6 times in the past 8 weeks. Compare that to in the 11 weeks leading up to these past 8, the Chiefs had lead in the 4th quarter in preciesly 1 of those 11 games—the win over the Broncos.

Some of you may think that anecdote at the top about Herm having the respect of the lockerroom is almost irrelevant, and some may believe that it is immeasurably important. But I can tell you this much, a coach that has lost his team does not get that effort from them at this point in the season.

In fact, there are only a few coaches in the entire NFL that could look the 2008 Kansas City Chiefs in the eye after week 7, when they were losers of 14 of 15 and not even competitive in 10 of 11, and make them believe they could in fact compete and win football games, even football games againts good teams. Herman Edwards did that.

We have been over it, but I will say it again. Players win and lose football games. If a team isn’t ready to play, you can tell, and that is almost always on the coach. If a team is ready to play but loses because of penalties, that is usually on the coach. If a team blows lates leads, or can’t finish games, that is usually on the coach and the veteran leaders of the team.

The 2008 Kansas City Chiefs have been ready to play in 7 of last 8 weeks. The 2008 Kansas City Chiefs have been barely penalized all season. The 2008 Kansas City Chiefs have blown some games, and some of that is certainly on Herm, but it absolutely isn’t Herm’s fault that this team has precisely 4 homegrown veterans.

Read that number again as well. The 2008 Kansas City Chiefs have 4 significant players from every draft before Herm got here. I will say it again, this team has 4 players—Tony Gonzale(12 yrs), Brian Waters(9), Larry Johnson (6) and Derrick Johnson (4)—from every single draft prior to 2006. That number is staggering. And that number is why this team is terrible, and that has absolutely nothing to do with Herman Edwards.

Herm isn’t perfect. His clock and challenge management is simply abysmal. And I don’t have much hope it will get better. His teams have an undeniable reputation for playing not to lose down the stretch rather than, ironically, playing to win.

But what matters is this. The Kansas City Chiefs right now do not have an identity. And if you change coaches and general managers when a team has no identity, you are starting over, starting from complete scratch. And if you do that, then the small nucleus, of extremely talented but very frustrating players, we have drafted in the past three years is for naught. You will be starting over entirely.

Carl Peterson’s drafts and transactions prior to 2006 are why this team is where it is. He has finally paid the price for that negligence. It would be a travesty to allow his mismanagement to further set your team back, and allow how ugly this team has looked at times this season to convince you to erase the progress this team is making.

And the progress is there. I remind you, the lowest point in the past 20 years as a Chiefs fan—the back to back losses to the Panthers and the Titans, being outscored by a margin of 68 to 10. Prior to that moment Kansas City had lost 14 of 15, and had held one 4th quarter lead in its 11 previous games. Since that moment, this team has had a chance to win 6 of its last 8 games, and legitimately should have won 3 or 4. The progress is finally starting to show, and the young players are finally starting to find their identities. Don’t erase all of that because the absolute lack of veteran talent and leadership has made this team sometimes maddening to watch.

by writer on Dec 17, 2008 11:46 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Some could make the case

Some could make the case on the offensive side of the ball it is Chan, not Herm who has got these guys playing hard. As the r2-p2 trudged along, you could see the team laying down, there was no hope. Chan put together an offense that put points on the board, and gave the whole team hope. I magine if we just kept running the balll up Niswangers but every play, this team would not be where it is now.

Lets hope Clark lets the new GM start fresh, with his guys. Who would want a coach, who has lost twice as many as he has won in KC?

by Eric Allen on Dec 18, 2008 6:32 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Your "Points" Were Excuses For His Lack Of Results

A losing record over eight years is going to make me turn on any coach.

The 2008 Kansas City Chiefs have been ready to play in 7 of last 8 weeks. The 2008 Kansas City Chiefs have been barely penalized all season. The 2008 Kansas City Chiefs have blown some games, and some of that is certainly on Herm, but it absolutely isn’t Herm’s fault that this team has precisely 4 homegrown veterans

How many games did they win in those seven games they were prepared for? And refresh my memory…what happened on that one week you tried to cherrypick out of your argument?

Herm Edwards will not be the Chiefs' head coach next season.

by UCrawford on Dec 18, 2008 8:24 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Correction

How many games did they win in those seven games they were “prepared” for?

Herm Edwards will not be the Chiefs' head coach next season.

by UCrawford on Dec 18, 2008 8:25 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Crawford...So using your logic Cleveland should have Gotten rid Of Bellichik

remember Cleveland had Belichick for 5 years ..he only had one year winning year. SO using your logic Bellichik was a lousy coach….Bet every fan in Cleveland wishes that they had brought him back..or had rehired him. SO your logic is flawed and you refuse to look at the other side…which is typical of you. Please try to use your brain instead of your emotions. Hey if Herm won the super bowl you are the kind of person who would say it was someone else who did it. The fact that you are not able to look at both sides and all possiblities makes your argutments a stretch. You are not able to accept anything good about Herm so that means that you have an agenda….life is not black and white. You are trying to put absolutes where there are none…You have an agenda and you think you are always right but your logic is flawed by reality…it maybe that Herm is not the best coach but he has been trying to correct years of flaws by Peterson. So it is hard to see what will happen if he is given another year….did you read the rest of the article by Wright? I think he deserves one more year considering the situation but I am going to go with the wishes of the next GM…What if the next GM decides to keep Herm…you might even have a heart attack….but it will give you plenty to write about as you seem to spend hours and hours attacking Herm….Where do you get all this time to attack and attack? ..just remember there is always two sides….and using your flawed logic no one should have given Belichick another chance…do I think that Herm is flawed yes…but remember all those coaches that left New England trying to implement the same system have for the most part been failures. THe jets just now are coming into their own…but they only came into their own by getting a gift from Green Bay….so mabye as our own Hall of Famer Len Dawson says…it is not the system but the players that make the critical difference….

by writer on Dec 18, 2008 1:13 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah But
remember Cleveland had Belichick for 5 years ..he only had one year winning year.

I would fire any coach that had 1 winning year in 5 years. Belichick never demonstrated an ability to win a SB in Cleveland like he has in NE.

by Joel Thorman on Dec 18, 2008 1:57 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

The point writer is making is that any coach would look good if they had good players.

Nice points writer, that was one of the longest comments I have ever seen.

Opinions are like A--holes, everyones got one.

by aPacificChief on Dec 19, 2008 7:50 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

He Deserved To Get Fired In Cleveland

And even Belichick has admitted that he did things differently there.

He also didn’t walk into his next job and let his team get progressively worse every year like Herm did here. Any coach with a losing record in his first gig who thinks he can get away with that in his second job is simply a complete and total moron and deserves to get fired.

Herm Edwards will not be the Chiefs' head coach next season.

by UCrawford on Dec 18, 2008 2:12 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

As For Your Other Points
Please try to use your brain instead of your emotions.

I’m not the one defending the 2-12 coach with a losing record over 8 seasons. That’s because I’m basing my arguments on the results he’s actually achieved…which are few.

Hey if Herm won the super bowl you are the kind of person who would say it was someone else who did it.

Baseless personal attack and completely inaccurate. I’ve given Herm credit for things his teams have done well and I’ve blamed him for things they’d done poorly. If he’d won a Super Bowl (or hadn’t regressed every year he’s been here) I’d be sticking up for him. This isn’t a talking point, it’s you accusing others of having irrational positions by making up arguments and attributing those arguments inaccurately to your opponents. It’s a fallacy and I’ve often found it to be the last refuge of those who can’t win their arguments based on the empirical evidence.

You are not able to accept anything good about Herm so that means that you have an agenda….life is not black and white.

Winning record over eight years = winning coach, losing record over eight years = losing coach. I’m not interested in having a losing coach run this team…especially when his record has gotten worse every year he’s been in charge here and he refuses to accept responsiblity.

You are trying to put absolutes where there are none

The standard cry of the beaten man with the poorly substantiated position…“Evidence doesn’t prove a thing”.

You have an agenda and you think you are always right but your logic is flawed by reality

My logic is flawed by reality? Logic is based on reality. What the fuck should I be basing logic on? Pixie dust and imaginary championships? Pretending that all of Herm’s losses were actually wins if he lost by less than 10 points? Herm’s got a losing record, his teams have gotten worse every year he’s been here and he refuses to admit that his approach isn’t working. That’s the reality of it. Whatever you’re basing your opinions on I have no clue because the rest of your comment was incoherent rambling.

Herm Edwards will not be the Chiefs' head coach next season.

by UCrawford on Dec 18, 2008 3:00 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Let's not give Herm credit he doesn't deserve

He won the division by means of a three-way tie itebreaker, and all the teams were 9-7. Parcells had FOUR FIRST ROUND PICKS in 2000, 3 of those picks are still starters in this league.

"In the NFL, coaching has to make a difference when the games are close. The talent level across the league from team to team is too similar. Great head coaches do their best work in the fourth quarter when the game is on the line. Instead, we’ve seen Herm blow timeouts, put the game in the hands of the league’s worst defense, and most recently, run Larry Johnson behind Wade Smith and Adrian Jones as if they were Tim Grunhard and Will Shields in their prime.
Dr. Frankenstein is gone, but his monster is still roaming the sideline at Arrowhead Stadium." -C.E. Wendler, Warpaint Illustrated

by IISaiNtII on Dec 17, 2008 4:31 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Gretz?

Lets hope Clark lets the new GM start fresh, with his guys. Who would want a coach, who has lost twice as many as he has won in KC?

by Eric Allen on Dec 17, 2008 9:02 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

The argument against that

Is that Eric Mangini then took the team Herm built to the playoffs. And is doing it again this year.

by Joel Thorman on Dec 17, 2008 4:34 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

With some big time free agents.

Lets hope Clark lets the new GM start fresh, with his guys. Who would want a coach, who has lost twice as many as he has won in KC?

by Eric Allen on Dec 17, 2008 9:20 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Genious

A lot of good names thrown out that no one has mentioned previously. Great work!

by Chiefs4Life on Dec 17, 2008 1:58 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Incredible Post, best I've ever read.

This definitely gives me good perspective in how to cope with our upcoming change. I truly hope Clark Hunt is reading this.

by TheQ on Dec 17, 2008 2:06 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Great Post

When deep space exploration ramps up, it'll be the corporations that name everything, the IBM Stellar Sphere, the Microsoft Galaxy, Planet Starbucks.

I'd be fine with 9-7 or 10-6 and competiting for the divsion title

by madtheory on Dec 17, 2008 2:23 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

I Share Chief Barbarady's Opinion Of "Atlas Shrugged"
Yes, at first I was happy to be learning how to read. It seemed exciting and magical, but then I read this: Atlas Shrugged by Ayn Rand. I read every last word, and because of this shit, I am never reading again.

If I’d known that the entire book could be summed up by just skipping to the last four pages, I wouldn’t have bothered. “The Fountainhead” fundamentally changed how I looked at the world, but my God was “Atlas Shrugged” a preachy piece of redundant crap.

Herm Edwards will not be the Chiefs' head coach next season.

by UCrawford on Dec 17, 2008 3:13 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

By The Time I Got To The Final 100 Pages Of That Book

I no longer cared.

Francisco D’Anconia’s 3 millionth uninterrupted hourlong monologue finally made me quit reading. So I skimmed the last four pages and that pretty much brought it to a close. Capitalism good, government are a bunch of thieves, secondhanders should either worship the master race of creators or die in their own filth. Got it.

It had some very good points to it, but I see “Atlas Shrugged” as the point at which Ayn Rand ditched the advocacy of individual freedom and immersed herself in her own God complex. I’m a pretty hardcore pro-individual rights guy, but Objectivism was nothing more than a cult.

Herm Edwards will not be the Chiefs' head coach next season.

by UCrawford on Dec 17, 2008 3:31 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Do you mean...

Robert A Heinlein’s “For Us, The Living”?

(I have a copy, and it’s pretty bad. Still don’t judge him by that book – it was his first, and it wasn’t publishable. Hell, it still wouldn’t be publishable, save that it sold some copies on the strength of his name, or to old RAH fans like me, who bought it for curiosity’s sake – I knew beforehand that it sucked, but bought it anyway, for that & other reasons.)

by Bleedingredandgold on Dec 17, 2008 6:23 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

He Was Referring To Ayn Rand's "We The Living"

It was a semi-autobiographical account of her life in Russia.

Never read that Heinlein story. Love his work, though. “Stranger In A Strange Land” is right up there with “The Fountainhead” for me and “The Moon Is A Harsh Mistress” is brilliant. Really enjoyed going to the convention to celebrate his 100th birthday in KC last year.

Herm Edwards will not be the Chiefs' head coach next season.

by UCrawford on Dec 17, 2008 9:14 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Couldn't make the convention, really

Attended the Heinlein Society’s room party on Saturday night, for a while, brought along a couple growlers of local microbrew that went over well.

Plus side, I got to host a picnic for some fellow fans from usenet – and that went over very well.

Never read the Rand book. The RAH book is mostly a curiosity – a number of themes he developed later on are in it.

by Bleedingredandgold on Dec 18, 2008 1:29 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I Made It For One Day

Didn’t make the room party…just attended the symposiums. Found the space elevator one the most interesting. Brought a friend of mine who’d never heard of RAH along and he really had a good time.

Herm Edwards will not be the Chiefs' head coach next season.

by UCrawford on Dec 18, 2008 8:27 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Read It

Wasn’t too bad.

I should also state that “The Fountainhead” had a profound impact on my life and it remains one of my favorite books. I just hated “Atlas Shrugged”…speaking of it as literature, it was a piece of crap.

Herm Edwards will not be the Chiefs' head coach next season.

by UCrawford on Dec 17, 2008 9:12 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

AP BOOKCLUB!!!

Excuse me, I’m a little drunk, but I love the duality of an NFL blog/book club. The ying and yang is just beautiful.
I haven’t read The Fountainhead. I loved Atlas Shrugged, perhaps if I had read her prior work beforehand it would be a different story it would be different.

by HIV 2 Elway on Dec 17, 2008 9:55 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I Read The Fountainhead Cover To Cover

Only took breaks to eat and sleep because I really got sucked in. You should definitely give it a look.

Finishing that book was the point at which I recognized that self-interest wasn’t a bad thing and became a libertarian. The book was actually a present from a friend of mine who also became a libertarian after reading it, and after I finished I gave it to another friend (an architecture student, funny enough) who said that it changed how he viewed the world. You often hear that “Atlas Shrugged” was Rand’s master work, but I’ve known a few people who read both and all of them preferred “The Fountainhead”.

Herm Edwards will not be the Chiefs' head coach next season.

by UCrawford on Dec 18, 2008 8:32 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

And

Yes, it can be nice once in awhile to run off on an interesting and irrelevant tangent to break things up. :)

Herm Edwards will not be the Chiefs' head coach next season.

by UCrawford on Dec 18, 2008 8:33 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Knew it...
"In other words, you found that your view of the world, your ideology, was not right, it was not working,"

by Official Arrowhead Pride Parade on Dec 18, 2008 1:57 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

More That It Helped Me Clearly Define My Ideology

I was pretty much always a libertarian and believed in those ideals…“The Fountainhead” just helped me to recognize it.

Herm Edwards will not be the Chiefs' head coach next season.

by UCrawford on Dec 18, 2008 3:03 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Great article

that is a great piece of work BigBlueShoe…

So, if you are a Colts fan, why would you choose to spend the time to write all of this up?
Just curious.

Really enjoyed the article, great job man!

by bigknoxy on Dec 17, 2008 3:30 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Very nice!

Very long (in a good way) and very well thought out. It is truly amazing how football affects people. A Colts fan writing an article of this magnitude! Thank you for your unbiased outside perspective. It will be fun watching what transpires with the Chiefs over the next few months. I am sure Clark Hunt reads the internet, so all of these posts are great fodder for this time of transition. I do agree that rebuilding should be from the ground up. I am also willing to take any lumps that may/will come with this direction. Having been a Chiefs fan my entire life, I am MORE than ready for change.

Bring it the f**k on!

Peace to you BigBlueShoe!

by NorthwestChief on Dec 17, 2008 4:33 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

great job on this

The Chiefs should hire you. :)

by Kallor on Dec 17, 2008 4:38 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Fascinating piece of work BigBlue!

After reading your candidates for GM the name that I found most intriguing was that of Marc Ross, NY Giants Director of College Scouting. Even before you gave your thumbs up on the guy.
The Giants play the same way we use to when we were successful. A pound it out type of running game, a blitzing style of defense in a 4-3 alignment. Pieces that are already in place when the new GM gets started with implementing the changes.

Opinions are like A--holes, everyones got one.

by aPacificChief on Dec 17, 2008 4:56 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Fantastic post. Thanks!

But, you do know the Colts have trounced our Chiefs’ most promising playoff chances in the last 20 years, right?

This has gone a long way to remove the grudge. :)

by DThomasReigns on Dec 17, 2008 5:29 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Very nice post

The one thing I will disagree with is just getting rid of Chan Gailey. I really like him as an offensive coordinator and I think the play of KC’s offense the 2nd half shows how innovative and different thinking he is. A lot of coordinators might try to just make it work with Thigpen, but Gailey created a new offense around the skills of his QB and it has worked so much better than anything else we could’ve done.

Down with Gunther, though. Wow our D should be better by now.

by I need more Esteban on Dec 17, 2008 7:59 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

+1.

I think Chan Gailey and his ArrowSpread/I-Gun/Pistol formation have been awesome this year. Obviously, if we get a new everything else, I suppose it might make sense to thoroughly clean house and get a new everything, like BBS argues, but I really like the Chan Gailey-Tyler Thigpen duo.

And our D has improved some, to be sure, but we for sure need a new guy in there.

by rockchalk on Dec 17, 2008 8:57 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

If Gailey is retained

And Thiggy’s in the starter spot, (and Herm’s still there), then might be worthwhile to lean on Herm enough t let Chan bring in one of his guys as QB coach.

just a though.

by Bleedingredandgold on Dec 18, 2008 1:32 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I worked as a sports editor for a year and a half

And this is seriously one of the most unique and well written pieces i’ve read on sports, EVER. Maybe i’m biased because im a huge chiefs fan and it pertains highly to the future of my favorite team but this article was well thought out and written… AWESOME JOB MY FRIEND.

From a fan’s perspective:
-I agree that bringing in a new fresh young face is the way to go, and i also agree that looking towards someone who can evaluate talent is a must.

I would be interested to know some of the busts the guys you posted had. I mean ya those were some key players but you could look at the chiefs and pull up Dwayne Bowe, Jared Allen, Brandon Carr, Larry Johnson, etc as guys who the chiefs brought in recently while evaluating personnel and Johnson Allen and Bowe are bigger names than most of the guys posted above. Having said that we’ve had huge busts as well, id be interested in seeing a piece on that for the people you recommended.

by Krans on Dec 17, 2008 9:04 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Whomever Hunt selects,

I really hope that he starts work on Dec 29th. There is a lot of work to do.

by TXChiefan on Dec 17, 2008 9:29 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

BTW, Thanks for the Post

Excellent, informative, creative, and appreciated.

by TXChiefan on Dec 17, 2008 9:31 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

At least one of the new management guys has to be a "big name".

Your article is excellent. I only would point out that even if all the candidates you describe seem suitable, Hunt Jr. must cover at least one of these positions with someone with a big name (none of the guys in your article fulfill this requisite). He needs a big name to cause a big impact to reinvigorate ticket-buyers, and most of all someone that players would buy into without second thoughts… imagine the impact that a guy like Cowher would cause on the players… and also think of how more easy it could be to get UFA with a guy like that at the helm… I don’t think it is time to experiment with someone with great potencial but not previous experience on a GM/HC position….

by ARG Chief on Dec 18, 2008 3:00 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

I disagree.

Fans are smart enough these days to not follow big names. The last thing Hunt should do is hire someone because they have a shiny big name.

by Warden11 on Dec 23, 2008 11:21 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

+1

A big name is not important at all. The person who gets hired must be a good fit for the position, and nothing else. Also, experimentation wouldn’t be a horrible problem with me – after all, isn’t that what Atlanta did this year? Rookie GM, HC and QB?

Hell, ticket sales will probably spike just due to the fans knowing they don’t have to put up with another season of Carl and (hopefully) Herm.

by Seth_C on Dec 29, 2008 3:43 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Nice read

You did a very thorough job with this post. I’ve been a big fan of Arrowhead Pride over the past couple of years. I’m very excited about the Chiefs and felt that Peterson’s departure was about three years too late. Here’s to spoiling the Dolphins playoff push this weekend… Not exactly Christmas ‘71, but it’ll do.

by Ozarks on Dec 18, 2008 9:10 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

Thanks for enjoying the post

I’m actually very, very shocked all you Chiefs fans liked it so much. Just to answer some lingering question very quickly:

1) I wrote the piece because I am always fascinated by how team’s rebuild, and after watching Clark Hunt’s news conference, I got the sense that Clark is NOT Lamar. He made that clear by firing Carl Peterson. All this “mutual decision” crap is there to make Carl look good, but everyone knows Carl was fired.

2) I respect people defending Herm. Herm, as a person, is a really good guy. But I lived in NY while he was Jets coach, and he was really nothing more than a sound bite. He also was totally unwilling to assert authority over his assistants because his assistants knew more than Herm did. I get the sense that Herm would be an outstanding college coach. His strengths are motivation and his personality, both vital to success in college. But as an Xs and Os guy, Herm is totally and utterly clueless. And he is now in his 8th year as a coach and he STILL does not know how to manage a game.

3) I’ve always liked the Chiefs since I played them in TECMO 2. Christian Okoye was a beat in that game. My favorite TECMO 2 memory was Okoye running over Deion Sanders. Great times.

4) Regarding writer’s comment on the West Coast offense in NY: So, basically, the offense would have worked if Joe Namath was the QB for NY? I think you just proved my point for me. There is a reason the NY teams focus more on running the ball than throwing. It is extremely difficult to throw accurately and on time in Giants stadium. It is a big reason why “throwing teams” struggle there. Again, I appreciate your defense for Herm. It’s a good defense. But, if you are looking for people with a fresh perspective on things, Herm isn’t it.

5) If Scott Pioli leaves NE, the Chiefs should grab him ASAP. If NE lets him go, they are finished. Belichick is a great personnel person, but Pioli is essential to hat club thriving.

So glad everyone liked the post. Happy holidays.

SB Nation's Indianapolis Colts blogger at Stampede Blue. Please make an account and post a diary, add some comments, and make some noise. Accounts are free, and only require an email address.

by BigBlueShoe on Dec 18, 2008 11:46 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

Don't be shocked

That’s the type of fans we are. We always enjoy objectiveness and find that criticism is fine as long as it’s supported by some sort of evidence. I’d say that having traveled across the USA, we’re probably more in tune with the goings on within the organization than most other fans. I don’t like to use the term “better educated”, but aside from Football and Basketball, there really isn’t any sports we follow.

Wellll…UC does follow Rugby, but that’s only because O, D and ST all play at the same time and he likes playing on all teams when he can’t play with himself ;) j/k UC, j/k.

Seriously though, your Herm’s comment is right on. How would you address those Herm supporters here that contend he went to the playoffs with the Jets and was successful in NY? Just curious (since you are a Fins fan) that lived in NY and could look at the situation without prejudice.

Bill Parcell’s: "You are what your record says you are."

The Chiefs need to be playoff contenders in 2009 for me to consider improvement. Clark wanted it in 2008...I'll give them an additional year.

by THE_TRUTH on Dec 18, 2008 12:16 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Sorry....mean't College Basketball and to add baseball as well.

Bill Parcell’s: "You are what your record says you are."

The Chiefs need to be playoff contenders in 2009 for me to consider improvement. Clark wanted it in 2008...I'll give them an additional year.

by THE_TRUTH on Dec 18, 2008 12:17 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Just To Clarify

I’ve never really followed rugby. I played rugby (till I sort of broke my neck). I’ll watch it if it’s on or I’ll go to a game live (and I used to watch it with my friends in England, but only as an excuse to drink) but I follow football, baseball, soccer, and basketball far more than I do rugby.

But yes, I did love playing that sport because everyone was expected to be able to do everything and it was refreshing. Each position had its focus, of course, but forwards had to know how to handle the ball and pass and kick and backs had to know how to tackle and form a ruck or maul and how to support. Not a lot of room for goldbrickers. :)

Herm Edwards will not be the Chiefs' head coach next season.

by UCrawford on Dec 18, 2008 12:44 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

How the hell do you "sort of" break your neck?

She “sort of” had an orgasm I could understand you saying. But not your neck.
BTW…j/k UC, you know that :)

Bill Parcell’s: "You are what your record says you are."

The Chiefs need to be playoff contenders in 2009 for me to consider improvement. Clark wanted it in 2008...I'll give them an additional year.

by THE_TRUTH on Dec 18, 2008 2:04 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

No Worries :)

I herniated two disks in my neck and lost substantial feeling and strength in my right hand and arm for two days afterwards. The docs told me the symptoms would go away and I should be fine but that I had some permanent damage and that my if I continued playing I had a good chance of requiring neck surgery and possibly living my life in a wheelchair so I chose to hang it up. When I moved back to the States I decided to give it another shot because I missed the game, but when we were running scrimmages I realized that I was always holding back because I was scared of getting hurt (which is a great way to get hurt) so I quit for good.

The injury actually happened because I was playing the hooker (insert Butthead laugh…pause) position on the front row because of injuries and because we didn’t have anyone else able or willing to and I’m physically not built for it. Also I had two rookies playing on either side of me on the front row and they made some rookie mistakes (mainly because they were exhausted) so I got hurt. Freakiest thing about the injury (it happened in a scrum) was that I could actually hear and feel the disks in my neck cracking. Probably the most painful experience of my life. Finished out the game (we ended up in a tie) but I was in a lot of pain afterwards.

Herm Edwards will not be the Chiefs' head coach next season.

by UCrawford on Dec 18, 2008 3:18 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Ok...that sucks and I'm glad you quit

I used to play soccer in college. Before that I played in Europe and thought that (comparatively speaking) guys would watch out for their opponents legs like they did over the pond….keep in mind guys over there understand how easy legs can get hurt, so you’d let up instead of hurting someone (after all it’s about amateur fun). Tackling there is a science. Here it’s a different attitude.
Got tired of waking up in the morning with my legs and shins black and blue (even with guards). Screwed up some tendons in one leg, then the other from criminal opponent tackles. Led the league in score and assists one year. Literally was having problems getting to class with a-holes going after my legs since they couldn’t get to the ball. Got tired of ice packs and heat packs. Officially announced my retirement.

The injury actually happened because I was playing the hooker (insert Butthead laugh…pause) position on the front row because of injuries and because we didn’t have anyone else able or willing to and I’m physically not built for it. Also I had two rookies playing on either side of me on the front row and they made some rookie mistakes (mainly because they were exhausted) so I got hurt. Freakiest thing about the injury (it happened in a scrum)

I reread it with the bolded parts, and thank goodness for a sec….. I thought you said scrotum. It’s easier to look back at it and laugh though the older one gets. Rugby = Too tough of a sport for me since I compare it to soccer. Not for me.

Bill Parcell’s: "You are what your record says you are."

The Chiefs need to be playoff contenders in 2009 for me to consider improvement. Clark wanted it in 2008...I'll give them an additional year.

by THE_TRUTH on Dec 18, 2008 3:38 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I Played Soccer Growing Up

Still follow the sport. Liverpool rules and the 2005 Champions League Final and 2006 FA Cup Final were the greatest games ever played. :)

Herm Edwards will not be the Chiefs' head coach next season.

by UCrawford on Dec 18, 2008 3:57 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Out of the UK clubs I rooted for Southampton FC

Arsenal as well as Dinamo Zagreb as well. With Dinamo I was able to get some autographs from Coach Blazevic (before he took Croatia to 3rd in the world during the WC).

Bill Parcell’s: "You are what your record says you are."

The Chiefs need to be playoff contenders in 2009 for me to consider improvement. Clark wanted it in 2008...I'll give them an additional year.

by THE_TRUTH on Dec 18, 2008 5:48 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I Always Forget

If Harry Redknapp is coaching Southampton or Portsmouth these days. He went from Southampton to Portsmouth and then back, right?

Herm Edwards will not be the Chiefs' head coach next season.

by UCrawford on Dec 18, 2008 7:41 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

He went from West Ham to Portsmouth to Southampton and than back to Portsmouth

So he went back to Portsmouth. Now he’s at Hotspur (I think). With all the legal problems he had I stopped keeping track…not to mention Hotspur beating Dinamo 4-0…but that’s another topic altogether.

Bill Parcell’s: "You are what your record says you are."

The Chiefs need to be playoff contenders in 2009 for me to consider improvement. Clark wanted it in 2008...I'll give them an additional year.

by THE_TRUTH on Dec 19, 2008 8:27 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

He's At Hotspur Now?

That guy’s worse than Petrino in the NFL.

Herm Edwards will not be the Chiefs' head coach next season.

by UCrawford on Dec 19, 2008 10:21 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

You're Right About The Tackles, Though

It’s a different attitude over here, plus refs in most of the recreational leagues I’ve heard about don’t really know how to watch for dangerous tackles like they do in Europe. I’ve got a buddy who’s in a rec league in Lawrence that outlawed tackling altogether, which I thought was pretty bad because that’s just asking for serious injury as well (since well-executed slide tackles are safer than running into somebody and trying to kick the ball away).

Soccer’s just not the same here, probably because it’s not a national sport like over there…the emphasis on fundamentals is weaker.

Herm Edwards will not be the Chiefs' head coach next season.

by UCrawford on Dec 18, 2008 5:23 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

All Good Points Big Blue..

I do take issue with your point on the Jets as I have seen lots of games there when the wind is swirling…and the good quarterbacks always made the throws and long ones in that wind….so although I agree that good teams run there but i would expand that to say that all good teams have an adequate running game. SO on that issue I think you missed my point…you were trying to attack Herm for using the west coast offense and I was saying it worked there if the quarterback was good. IT was not the scheme…so maybe we can agree to disagree…

But the one issue I can not take with you is on the idea that we need a fresh approach….and you are absolutely right Herm does not seem supply it…However In Herms defense…you have to give him some credit for the Offense that is Occuring here. It is revolutionary in a sense…everyone is remaking on this offensive scheme. So in that sense Herm got out of the box and should we not credit him with this. It is totally different than the Herm you seem to represent….however sometimes he does things that get everyone mad…like some of his play calling that seems to focus on not losing rather than on wining…and in that sense I totally agree with you but again how Herm is agreeable to this new modified spread offense shows me that there is hope here….

by writer on Dec 18, 2008 1:25 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

He had no other choice

He was losing his players, you could see them deflating. You even see it now when we get conservative in the second half.

Lets hope Clark lets the new GM start fresh, with his guys. Who would want a coach, who has lost twice as many as he has won in KC?

by Eric Allen on Dec 18, 2008 2:23 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Wrap-up question

Is anyone here a big Chiefs draft guru or a big AFC West draft guru?

SB Nation's Indianapolis Colts blogger at Stampede Blue. Please make an account and post a diary, add some comments, and make some noise. Accounts are free, and only require an email address.

by BigBlueShoe on Dec 21, 2008 7:29 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

What do you need to know?

Been following the draft alot, if I can answer it I’ll give it a shot.

Opinions are like A--holes, everyones got one.

by aPacificChief on Dec 25, 2008 1:36 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I like this

I like Ross from what I’ve researched. Youthful, scouting background. Pioli is the sexy pick…but him minus Billichick I don’t know. I also like Chris Mara of the Giants and of course the Steelers guys. Pats are a big free agent team.

by FrankPitts on Dec 24, 2008 2:02 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Wisdom from Indy...

Very astute sir. Very astute indeed. Yo Hunt! You reading this?

by dsouth on Dec 28, 2008 11:33 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

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