Will The Chiefs Pillage The Patriots' Organization?
by UCrawford on Dec 16, 2008 12:55 PM CST
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PrintFrom the FanPosts. -Chris
Bill Williamson at ESPN certainly seems to think it's a possibility. In his AFC West blog he speculated that not only will the Chiefs likely target Patriots personnel man Scott Pioli as their new GM but they'll also give consideration to current Patriots offensive coordinator Josh McDaniels for head coach and take a serious look at current Patriots starting quarterback Matt Cassel in free agency this year.
Think about it; it makes sense. The Chiefs have the GM opening and it is clear that person will likely bring in his own coach. And a new GM and new coach could want a new quarterback. Pioli and McDaniels would want a new quarterback to have some familiarity with their system. The Pioli-McDaniels-Cassel three-some is possible.
While I like Pioli as a candidate for GM, I'll admit that I'm not quite as high on McDaniels for head coach...mainly because few of Bill Belichick's disciples have come close to his level of success after no longer working with him. None have done so at the pro level. Charlie Weis has been a dismal flop at Notre Dame. Romeo Crennel is on the verge of getting fired in Cleveland. Eric Mangini's results have been mixed with the Jets. Kirk Ferentz and Al Groh have underachieved in college. The only coach from the Belichick coaching tree who's stood out has been Nick Saban and he struggled at the pro level with the Dolphins. This, of course, doesn't mean that McDaniels would be a failure...he might well be a good coach. But the history of that coaching tree isn't promising.
On the other hand, McDaniel has produced this year without Tom Brady on the field (which makes him unique among all of the other names) and what he's done with Cassel this season has been very impressive, so if any of Belichick's proteges are destined for greatness McDaniels is a decent bet to be that guy. And I can't argue with Cassel's performance this year...he's been good. Very good. And as much as I like Thigpen (and I do like Thigpen) I can't argue that he's been a better QB than Cassel this season, so if they did hire Pioli and McDaniels and brought in Cassel it would be a definite upgrade for this team.
Obviously if Clark Hunt is targeting a Patriots trifecta, we're not going to find out for a few weeks, since the Patriots are still in contention and aren't likely going to want the distractions involved with their coaches and front office interviewing for other jobs (so they'll likely deny permission until their season ends). But Williamson draws up an interesting scenario that would appear to fit what Clark Hunt has said he wants, so it'll be interesting to see how it shakes out.
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of Arrowhead Pride's writers or editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of Arrowhead Pride writers or editors.
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Well...
McDaniels oversaw an offense that broke so many NFL records in ‘07, including points scored, touchdowns scored and most players scoring a touchdown. I mean… HAHAHA! I’m not saying that we would be as big of an offensive juggernaut as the New England Patriots… But the thing is; we HAVE the talent. We just need to fingure out how to use that talent.
Right now, we’re using the spread to get our passing game going, but with Pioli and McDaniels at the helm, they’d construct something that works for this team, rather than settling for a college-like game plan that KINDA works.
Regarding the offense...
Have you been watching this season? The coaching staff didn’t plan to use the “Arrowspread” offense. Rather, the current O is something cobbled together from the wreck of an offense we had early in the season.
Your arguement /only/ holds water if:
A) you can point to a similar situation where your guys “construct(ed) something that works” under equally bad circumstances – or-
B) Chan & Herm don’t evolve the offense into something more effective for next season.
Chan especially should get credit for patching together an offense that KINDA works from an inexperienced QB workng behind a young, shaky O-line without much of a running game to rely on and only one really reliable receiver.
This ain’t to say that Chan-under-Herm is perfect – the unproductive 2nd half play we’ve had is evidence of that. Your unsupported allegation that your kool-aid providers would have done better isn’t a very effective one.
by Bleedingredandgold on Dec 16, 2008 6:10 PM CST up reply actions
I'd much rather...
toss a pile of cash Cassel’s way and use our first rounder for a O-lineman, pass rusher or LB, than draft a QB. We’ve got the cap room, we’re currently paying out QB’s diddly, lets do it.
I'll take Pioli.
I’ll take Scott Pioli. And, I could see the argument for going after Matt Cassel.
But, as far as a new Head Coach is concerned, it seemed a whole lot like Clark Hunt was saying that the new GM — whoever that winds up being — is going to come in understanding that Herm’s got a year (or more) to see through the ‘youth movement’ in every interview I’ve heard with him.
I didnt "hear"him say anything like that
Q: What’s Herm Edwards’ status?
HUNT: "I had a chance to speak with Herm this afternoon and I told him I’m very supportive of the job that he’s done to this point and the approach that he’s taken in rebuilding the football team. A decision on his future will be one that we will make in the off-season. It’s something that I expect a new general manager will have input in although the final decision will be mine."
kcchiefs.com
We need a future defensive leader, his name is James Laurinaitis and he can be selected in round 1 of the upcoming Draft.
"But what do I know, I’m like an empty room with a large ECHO"
Absolutely
Clark Hunt did not in any way guarantee Herm Edwards a job next year. If he was set on having him back he would have said “Herm Edwards is coming back next year”.
Hunt’s just making the job more attractive to the new GM by offering to take responsibility for the firing of the new coach (if the new GM wants to do that). Herm’s most likely gone before next season.
A GM should be given no less than five years on the job to prove his ability. After that he should be removed if it's been more than 2 years since his team made the playoffs or more than three years since his team won a playoff game.
The Chiefs should win 5 to 6 games this year and no less than 4 for this season to be considered progress in any way. If he can't win at least 9 games next season, Herm is a joke.
Well thought out comment
with some good supporting arguments.
"In the NFL, coaching has to make a difference when the games are close. The talent level across the league from team to team is too similar. Great head coaches do their best work in the fourth quarter when the game is on the line. Instead, we’ve seen Herm blow timeouts, put the game in the hands of the league’s worst defense, and most recently, run Larry Johnson behind Wade Smith and Adrian Jones as if they were Tim Grunhard and Will Shields in their prime.
Dr. Frankenstein is gone, but his monster is still roaming the sideline at Arrowhead Stadium." -C.E. Wendler, Warpaint Illustrated
Damn.
I’m a crank bitch this afternoon.
"In the NFL, coaching has to make a difference when the games are close. The talent level across the league from team to team is too similar. Great head coaches do their best work in the fourth quarter when the game is on the line. Instead, we’ve seen Herm blow timeouts, put the game in the hands of the league’s worst defense, and most recently, run Larry Johnson behind Wade Smith and Adrian Jones as if they were Tim Grunhard and Will Shields in their prime.
Dr. Frankenstein is gone, but his monster is still roaming the sideline at Arrowhead Stadium." -C.E. Wendler, Warpaint Illustrated
For Edwards to continue his vision, Peterson could no longer be a part of the picture.
"I’m not tremendously surprised that Carl stepped down. I would be very surprised if they let Herm go," Hall of Fame quarterback Len Dawson says. "I just think Clark likes the direction it’s going. That’s just a feeling I get, that he likes Herm."
Edwards went on a radio show and talked about the progress the Chiefs had made.
"This team has gotten better," Edwards says. "It’s got a lot of young players. I think the foundation is built for this football team right now. I like the direction this organization has taken now, with the youth and how they’re going to acquire players from here on out. It’s a great situation to be in for a football coach."
Edwards says he is planning for the Chiefs’ final two games and is not concerning himself with what happens beyond that. He has said throughout this season that he feels safe in his job, and Monday was proof Edwards had some job security — at least more than Peterson possessed.
KansasCity.com
Load Of Crap
The Chiefs simply don’t want to be looking for a head coach and a GM at the same time. Herm’s got no job security right now.
Mark my words, he will not be the head coach when the 2009 season kicks off.
A GM should be given no less than five years on the job to prove his ability. After that he should be removed if it's been more than 2 years since his team made the playoffs or more than three years since his team won a playoff game.
The Chiefs should win 5 to 6 games this year and no less than 4 for this season to be considered progress in any way. If he can't win at least 9 games next season, Herm is a joke.
I hope thats true
Just made a fanpost that he’s still got to go :)
"In the NFL, coaching has to make a difference when the games are close. The talent level across the league from team to team is too similar. Great head coaches do their best work in the fourth quarter when the game is on the line. Instead, we’ve seen Herm blow timeouts, put the game in the hands of the league’s worst defense, and most recently, run Larry Johnson behind Wade Smith and Adrian Jones as if they were Tim Grunhard and Will Shields in their prime.
Dr. Frankenstein is gone, but his monster is still roaming the sideline at Arrowhead Stadium." -C.E. Wendler, Warpaint Illustrated
Disagree.
Herm has taken this team this far. It isn’t necessarily his fault we have lost the close games. That is what tends to happen when you have young teams.
Give him next year, with a more experienced team with plenty of talent. If we don’t have a winning record next year and compete for the AFC West, then give him the axe and let the GM pick his choice. But he deserves a shot to see how far he can take this team he built.
At least, I think so.
Indeed I Will :)
A GM should be given no less than five years on the job to prove his ability. After that he should be removed if it's been more than 2 years since his team made the playoffs or more than three years since his team won a playoff game.
The Chiefs should win 5 to 6 games this year and no less than 4 for this season to be considered progress in any way. If he can't win at least 9 games next season, Herm is a joke.
And When I Say That
Know that I’m totally going to welch on that bet if it ever comes down to it. :)
A GM should be given no less than five years on the job to prove his ability. After that he should be removed if it's been more than 2 years since his team made the playoffs or more than three years since his team won a playoff game.
The Chiefs should win 5 to 6 games this year and no less than 4 for this season to be considered progress in any way. If he can't win at least 9 games next season, Herm is a joke.
Listen to him, then.
Q: What’s Herm Edwards’ status?
HUNT: "I had a chance to speak with Herm this afternoon and I told him I’m very supportive of the job that he’s done to this point and the approach that he’s taken in rebuilding the football team. A decision on his future will be one that we will make in the off-season. It’s something that I expect a new general manager will have input in although the final decision will be mine."
Q: So you can’t say for certain that Herm will be coaching the Chiefs next year?
HUNT: "No, I think the best thing for the organization is to wait until we have the new GM on board and make that evaluation at that time."
Q: You said earlier that you thought that Herm was the right coach to lead the rebuilding process here. Has your opinion changed?
HUNT: "No it really hasn’t. True to his word, he has given the young players a chance to play and it’s been gratifying to watch them develop. Now, he’s as disappointed as anybody that we haven’t turned more of those close games into wins. But I continue to think he’s the right person both to have led us through this process and going forward I think he would do a good job as well."
If that’s not Clark saying, “I will look to our new GM for input on Herm’s future with our organization, but I’m going to make the final call and I believe in what Herm’s done and what Herm’s doing” then I’m not sure what is.
He didn’t guarantee him a job, no. Because that would be undercutting the new GM before the guy ever gets hired. But, it’s still clear that it’s Clark’s belief that Herm is doing a good job, is the right guy to continue to do the job, and that Clark’s going to have the final say-so as to whether or not Herm gets to stick around.
The Owner Always Has Final Say-So Anyway
In every situation…because he owns the team and has to pay the contract if the coach is fired befpre that contract is up. That’s what ownership means…he gets the authority to say how his team is going to be run. That is in no way an indication that Herm’s staying.
But, it’s still clear that it’s Clark’s belief that Herm is doing a good job
Which you base on what? He fired the GM mid-season a year before his contract was up. That doesn’t happen when the owner thinks the team’s on the right track.
Herm’s gone. He did a crap job with this team, the fans have quit buying tickets, his boss has been fired for what’s going on and his new boss will be someone who isn’t part of the plan (as evidenced by the “fresh set of eyes” comment) so he’ll be next. The Chiefs will have a new head coach when the 2009 season rolls around and I’ll be happy to put money down on it to back what I’m saying…$100 work for you?
A GM should be given no less than five years on the job to prove his ability. After that he should be removed if it's been more than 2 years since his team made the playoffs or more than three years since his team won a playoff game.
The Chiefs should win 5 to 6 games this year and no less than 4 for this season to be considered progress in any way. If he can't win at least 9 games next season, Herm is a joke.
Which you base on what?
Uh, the bolded parts in the quotes I gave you where Clark says that he thinks Herm’s done a good job, that he supports the job that Herm’s done, that he believes that Herm was the right guy to take the Chiefs through this process and that he thinks he’d continue to do a good job of guiding the process in the future.
Maybe you’ve never had a performance appraisal at your job, but most people would consider a performance appraisal like that to be a pretty good one.
And you don't think Clark would let Herm save face?
…like he let Carl do? Especially with 2 games left?
I’ve never seen Lamar or Clark criticize any memeber of the staff publicly. Just doesn’t happen. We ALL know that Carl was let go and Clark brought it out as though he sat down with Carl and it was the Kings idea.
BS.
It’s a game to save face and not Sh!t where you eat. After all, do you think a future GM or coach would work for someone that could end their career with public criticism? OH, nevermeind, his name is Al Davis. Clark Hunt is no Al Davis.
Bill Parcell’s: "You are what your record says you are."
The Chiefs need to be playoff contenders in 2009 for me to consider improvement. Clark wanted it in 2008...I'll give them an additional year.
That's Not A Performance Appraisal
I told him I’m very supportive of the job that he’s done to this point and the approach that he’s taken in rebuilding the football team.
That’s more of a “dreaded vote of confidence”. A performance appraisal would be along the lines of “Herm Edwards has met the required level of performance expected from him this year, I’ll definitely be retaining him next season and I expect him to win "X” number of games next season".
All Clark Hunt did with the above comment was not throw Herm under the bus. And Truth is right…neither Clark nor Lamar Hunt have ever done that publicly with Chiefs employees.
the final decision will be mine.
That’s not an endorsement of Herm Edwards either…that’s Clark Hunt saying that he will have final say on whether Herm gets fired. He didn’t say he’ll be keeping Herm.
I continue to think he’s the right person both to have led us through this process and going forward I think he would do a good job as well."
Closest you come to supporting your position is with this comment. But the key word in this comment is “would” (“I think he would do a good job as well.”). If Hunt was saying Herm’s definitely the coach that would have been “I think he will do a good job next season.”
Herm’s getting the axe if the new GM wants him to get the axe because Clark Hunt is not going to compromise his hunt for a new GM to protect a head coach who only won two games this year and who has choked away enough games to justify firing the previous GM.
A GM should be given no less than five years on the job to prove his ability. After that he should be removed if it's been more than 2 years since his team made the playoffs or more than three years since his team won a playoff game.
The Chiefs should win 5 to 6 games this year and no less than 4 for this season to be considered progress in any way. If he can't win at least 9 games next season, Herm is a joke.
And
Maybe you’ve never had a performance appraisal at your job, but most people would consider a performance appraisal like that to be a pretty good one.
I was in the Army for 10 years and we both give and receive formal performance appraisals…monthly at a minimum. I’ve read (and written) enough of them to know the difference between an endorsement of a productive employee and a good boss not trying to crap on a substandard employee in public.
A GM should be given no less than five years on the job to prove his ability. After that he should be removed if it's been more than 2 years since his team made the playoffs or more than three years since his team won a playoff game.
The Chiefs should win 5 to 6 games this year and no less than 4 for this season to be considered progress in any way. If he can't win at least 9 games next season, Herm is a joke.
Agreed..
…I do and have done many myself and there are indicative words that are used when doing appraisals. Funny thing is guess what I’ve got to do in less than 2 weeks? ;)
The company i work for is dependant on them and we are reviewed based upon specific written performances. matter of fact, this is stressed to such a degree that we had training on HOW to write specific objectives and accomplishments. There is a sentence structure which would be too long of a post to describe, but each sentence is evaluated so that there aren’t misunderstandings and discrepancies in regards to what are the objectives and accomplishments.
It’s pretty black and white.
Bill Parcell’s: "You are what your record says you are."
The Chiefs need to be playoff contenders in 2009 for me to consider improvement. Clark wanted it in 2008...I'll give them an additional year.
I'm not feeling as strongly about this as you UC
But I still only give Herm a 50/50 shot of staying around. I think that for him to stay here the new GM would have to be VERY much in favor of that happening. I believe that if the new GM comes in and feels that someone else will do a better job, Clark isn’t going to stand in his way for sure.
Basically for Herm to stay here then Clark needs to hire a Herm-Friendly GM, and I haven’t really seen one on the candidate list yet. I’ll hold off and call it 50/50, but I think if it is 50/50 it’s declining, and not in Herm’s favor…
I've got two things to say about Matt Cassel
Derek. Anderson.
Somebody is going to overpay Cassel, just like the Browns did with ol’ Horseballs last year. Hopefully it isn’t us. I’d rather stick with Thiggy, roll with Brodie at #2, and take a project QB in rounds 5-7.
Anderson Wasn't As Good As Cassel
TD/INT ratio was about the same, but Cassel’s completion percentage is dramatically better than Anderson’s was last year. You’re talking about a 10 point difference between them and that’s huge.
A GM should be given no less than five years on the job to prove his ability. After that he should be removed if it's been more than 2 years since his team made the playoffs or more than three years since his team won a playoff game.
The Chiefs should win 5 to 6 games this year and no less than 4 for this season to be considered progress in any way. If he can't win at least 9 games next season, Herm is a joke.
Braylon Edwards Wasn't A Slouch Last Year
Nor was Kellen Winslow.
And Bowe, Bradley and Gonzalez won’t be significant downgrades next year either if Cassel comes here.
A GM should be given no less than five years on the job to prove his ability. After that he should be removed if it's been more than 2 years since his team made the playoffs or more than three years since his team won a playoff game.
The Chiefs should win 5 to 6 games this year and no less than 4 for this season to be considered progress in any way. If he can't win at least 9 games next season, Herm is a joke.
I see what you're saying
I just think Moss is the best deep threat ever, and Welker one of the best slots. I guess I’m just not sold on Cassel.
Moss Is Great
But as his time in Oakland showed, he’s only as good as his QB…and Cassel gets him the ball and puts him in a position to succeed. Not as well as Brady did, of course, but that’s not much of a knock on Cassel.
A GM should be given no less than five years on the job to prove his ability. After that he should be removed if it's been more than 2 years since his team made the playoffs or more than three years since his team won a playoff game.
The Chiefs should win 5 to 6 games this year and no less than 4 for this season to be considered progress in any way. If he can't win at least 9 games next season, Herm is a joke.
Yup
But the Gay-ders can bring any player down, (Deangelo Hall) . Do you think Cassel is our best option?
DeAngelo Hall Was The Same Player With The Raiders That He Was With The Falcons
He was fundamentally unsound with the Falcons and prone to making stupid mistakes because he couldn’t keep his head in the game or control his temper.
Raiders didn’t have anything to do with his problems…he did.
A GM should be given no less than five years on the job to prove his ability. After that he should be removed if it's been more than 2 years since his team made the playoffs or more than three years since his team won a playoff game.
The Chiefs should win 5 to 6 games this year and no less than 4 for this season to be considered progress in any way. If he can't win at least 9 games next season, Herm is a joke.
Maybe Not
I’m okay with that too. I like Thigpen for next year, especially at the salary he’s making. And I’d be okay with drafting a QB with a high pick as well.
Nice thing about a team with so many holes is that you’ve got a lot of options for what you can draft. Nicer thing is not having the same GM who made questionable picks before doing that draft.
A GM should be given no less than five years on the job to prove his ability. After that he should be removed if it's been more than 2 years since his team made the playoffs or more than three years since his team won a playoff game.
The Chiefs should win 5 to 6 games this year and no less than 4 for this season to be considered progress in any way. If he can't win at least 9 games next season, Herm is a joke.
And I'm Not Sure About Cassel
I think he would be a good option and at the very least a solid QB for us, but I’m not sure if he’ll be worth the contract he demands in free agency.
And if the Pats franchise him, he’s definitely not worth it.
A GM should be given no less than five years on the job to prove his ability. After that he should be removed if it's been more than 2 years since his team made the playoffs or more than three years since his team won a playoff game.
The Chiefs should win 5 to 6 games this year and no less than 4 for this season to be considered progress in any way. If he can't win at least 9 games next season, Herm is a joke.
INAPPROPRIATE LANGUAGE
Please keep the inappropriate language to yourself. “Gay-ders” is not a very mature phrase to use. Moreover, it is an implicit slur against gay men. There is no need for that sort of language on this site. Enough said.
Agreed
I’ll drop more than the occasional f-bomb, but anti-gay slurs aren’t any better than racial slurs (which I doubt any of us would find appropriate).
And it’s a grave insult to anyone to lump them in with the Raiders. :)
A GM should be given no less than five years on the job to prove his ability. After that he should be removed if it's been more than 2 years since his team made the playoffs or more than three years since his team won a playoff game.
The Chiefs should win 5 to 6 games this year and no less than 4 for this season to be considered progress in any way. If he can't win at least 9 games next season, Herm is a joke.
Dooche
I find your political correctness highly offensive.
I’ve got news for you, the Supreme Court has roundly rejected prior restraint.
Quoting "The Big Lebowski"
Still does not make pleaseblock’s point any less valid…and I think it’s a fair request.
Although I did enjoy Mr. Sobchak’s little diatribe. :)
A GM should be given no less than five years on the job to prove his ability. After that he should be removed if it's been more than 2 years since his team made the playoffs or more than three years since his team won a playoff game.
The Chiefs should win 5 to 6 games this year and no less than 4 for this season to be considered progress in any way. If he can't win at least 9 games next season, Herm is a joke.
I'll get you a toe by this afternoon--with nail polish. These fucking amateurs.
(I could do this all night, seriously I’ve got plenty of time)
Take It Easy Man
You’re not wrong, HIV…you’re just an asshole. :)
A GM should be given no less than five years on the job to prove his ability. After that he should be removed if it's been more than 2 years since his team made the playoffs or more than three years since his team won a playoff game.
The Chiefs should win 5 to 6 games this year and no less than 4 for this season to be considered progress in any way. If he can't win at least 9 games next season, Herm is a joke.
And I thought "Gay-ders" was a comment regarding their state of high-spirits or giddiness...
If Pleasblock hadn’t made it a point I wouldn’t have ever noticed it, and neither would most others…
1 a: happily excited : merry b: keenly alive and exuberant : having or inducing high spirits <a gay-der just fumbled the football!>
2 a: bright , lively b: brilliant in color
3: given to social pleasures ; also : licentious
4 a: homosexual b: of, relating to, or used by homosexuals
I'm cool with that...
so long as we don’t take a QB with a first day pick. I’m still hoping Sanchez declares and slips to a second day pick.
We Concur, but
But Cassel’s driving a Mercedes S Class, the wheels fell off Horseball’s ’67 Charger this year.
by Official Arrowhead Pride Parade on Dec 16, 2008 1:52 PM CST up reply actions
I'd say...
Sign Cassel… Draft a QB LATER in the draft. Let Cassel and Thigpen compete and then depending on how the season goes, it’ll determine if we get a QB in 2010…. If we don’t need one, either Thigpen or Cassel are the Franchise QB we’ve been looking for, or we draft Colt McCoy.
Reasonable plan - IF
Cassel can be gotten at a good-value price. Likewise any other FA QB, subject to price.
Honest competition will either inspire Thiggy to improve, or expose him as unsuited (at this time, perhaps). When is Bones’ contract up, anyway? Would now be a good time to lock him in fairly cheap, on the expectation that he can play as a legitimate backup, or would we be better-served to wait for proof, and pay much more to retain him later?
As far as the draft goes, we have /far/ more pressing needs than at QB, unless a QB falls to us as a legitimate BPA early on.
by Bleedingredandgold on Dec 16, 2008 6:32 PM CST up reply actions
Agreed
If Cassel can be had for Derek Anderson money, that’s okay. If it’s more (or if it involves giving up draft picks) I’d rather the Chiefs passed.
A GM should be given no less than five years on the job to prove his ability. After that he should be removed if it's been more than 2 years since his team made the playoffs or more than three years since his team won a playoff game.
The Chiefs should win 5 to 6 games this year and no less than 4 for this season to be considered progress in any way. If he can't win at least 9 games next season, Herm is a joke.
I look at it this way....
what are we paying our QB’s, combined? Something between, jacksquat and zilch. We’ve got old man Huard, an undrafted free agent, and a 3rd rounder still under his first contract. I’ll admit, I’m heavily biased towards Cassel. But we are currently investing nothing in the highest paid position on a team. Toss some money at Cassel, toss some money at either a pass rusher or a LB and use our 1st rounder on whatever position, save QB, we don’t address in free agency. I honeslty think this team is 2 defense player away from being the best in the AFC West. Sign one (please Suggs, please Suggs) pass rusher, draft the other, take a O-lineman in round 2 and this team is better than Rat Face’s Donkeys.
Croyle's Contract Is Up After Next Season
And he’s got almost no guaranteed money left on it so he’s out of the picture before opening day as a cost-cut. Nobody’s going to come in and say that he’s the answer to anything…not after his injury issues and lack of production the last two years. Carl might have kept him because of a faint hope it would validate that draft, but even that was a longshot.
I’m fine with giving Cassel a nice contract. Just as long as it doesn’t cost us draft picks. If that happens I’d rather the Chiefs go with Thigpen as starter and draft a rookie with a first-day pick.
A GM should be given no less than five years on the job to prove his ability. After that he should be removed if it's been more than 2 years since his team made the playoffs or more than three years since his team won a playoff game.
The Chiefs should win 5 to 6 games this year and no less than 4 for this season to be considered progress in any way. If he can't win at least 9 games next season, Herm is a joke.
3 years, $24 million
Rotoworld has information on it. Type in the players last name in the player search box on the homepage.
by Joel Thorman on Dec 18, 2008 9:42 PM CST up reply actions
+1
We could use some winning philosophy on this team. These people (maybe without Cassel) would definately bring that.
"The spirit, the will to win, and the will to excel are the things that endure. These qualities are so much more important than the events that occur." - Vince Lombardi
Are we so ready to scrap the beloved Arrowspread? =)
I would picture Cassel running a conventional offense.
Conventional Offense?
The Patriots don’t run a conventional pro-style offense. They’re pass-heavy.
A GM should be given no less than five years on the job to prove his ability. After that he should be removed if it's been more than 2 years since his team made the playoffs or more than three years since his team won a playoff game.
The Chiefs should win 5 to 6 games this year and no less than 4 for this season to be considered progress in any way. If he can't win at least 9 games next season, Herm is a joke.
Doesn't New England basically run a spread for the majority of it's plays?
I know they did with Brady but I haven’t watched much of them with Cassel
"The spirit, the will to win, and the will to excel are the things that endure. These qualities are so much more important than the events that occur." - Vince Lombardi
They run a "winning" style offense
I think it is the spread or a version of it.
We need a future defensive leader, his name is James Laurinaitis and he can be selected in round 1 of the upcoming Draft.
"But what do I know, I’m like an empty room with a large ECHO"
Let Pioli make the decisions
I’m fine with whoever Pioli chooses if he would come to KC.
As for Cassel, he’s going to make a lot of money this offseason, but I doubt he’ll be worth it when he stops throwing to Randy Moss and Wes Welker. He’s got tools and his success isn’t all due to them, I’m not saying that. I just wouldn’t expect his numbers next year to be as good as they are this year, and he’s going to get paid like a top NFL QB, which I don’t think he’ll be.
We do need to bring in another QB, but I hope we don’t expend too much in resources to do that. Pigpen can be a solid NFL QB. Not great, but solid.
Furthermore, I think a new GM might look at this team and decide that we’re not ready to compete next year anyway, and then decide to just keep Pigpen and draft a QB in the middle rounds and see how we look at the end of next year. That’s what I’d do. I don’t think the difference in going from Thigpen to Cassel is enough to vastly change our fortunes next season anyway, so why tie up the cap space? And no need to throw a ton of money at a QB if the OL isn’t ready to protect him. If the new GM does end up trading Gonzalez, then there’s really no need to spend a ton of money on a QB who will only have one guy to throw to.
But again, if we get Piloi, I am fine with whoever he chooses as coach and QB.
by Offense of the 70s on Dec 16, 2008 1:46 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
good points
We need a future defensive leader, his name is James Laurinaitis and he can be selected in round 1 of the upcoming Draft.
"But what do I know, I’m like an empty room with a large ECHO"
Well, in the words of Denny Green
Why don’t you just crown their ass already?
by Official Arrowhead Pride Parade on Dec 16, 2008 1:56 PM CST up reply actions
From the sooth saying font of the KSK Kommentor Pool
porky1 Says:
December 16th, 2008 at 11:10 am
Don’t worry, KC fans. In 5-6 years, KC will trade for an over-the-hill Tom Brady and almost compete again. And then in the next few years after that, they’ll inexplicably end up going through two other former Pats QBs.
by Official Arrowhead Pride Parade on Dec 16, 2008 1:49 PM CST reply actions
can you throw some Karma at him and hex him for life?
We need a future defensive leader, his name is James Laurinaitis and he can be selected in round 1 of the upcoming Draft.
"But what do I know, I’m like an empty room with a large ECHO"
Offense minded HC, I likee!
Romeo Crennel as new D-coordinator?
At least 10-6 next year taking our division, or Herm goes.
Would much rather
Marvin Lewis.
"In the NFL, coaching has to make a difference when the games are close. The talent level across the league from team to team is too similar. Great head coaches do their best work in the fourth quarter when the game is on the line. Instead, we’ve seen Herm blow timeouts, put the game in the hands of the league’s worst defense, and most recently, run Larry Johnson behind Wade Smith and Adrian Jones as if they were Tim Grunhard and Will Shields in their prime.
Dr. Frankenstein is gone, but his monster is still roaming the sideline at Arrowhead Stadium." -C.E. Wendler, Warpaint Illustrated
Only if he brings along Chris Henry!:)
At least 10-6 next year taking our division, or Herm goes.
Ban this guy from this site please
Greg Williams name should never be utter here ever.
When deep space exploration ramps up, it'll be the corporations that name everything, the IBM Stellar Sphere, the Microsoft Galaxy, Planet Starbucks.
I'd be fine with 9-7 or 10-6 and competiting for the divsion title
Patriot Act
The New England scenario is the dream option to me. Fingers crossed for the best.
Holy crap....
talk about a dream…
I’m here at work… And I invisioned Clark Hunt holding up the Lambardi trophy in full glory.
I'm OK with someone like Pioli for GM, but
If we sign a new GM I hope for the integrity of the team that Kuharich will remain until after the 2009 season. Would hate to lose the detailed information gathered on the College prospects to be lost with the transition of GM’s.
I hate the Romeo Crennel as D coordinator bit, only because that would mean that we would change Defensive philosophies to better fit a 3-4. Linebackers are not a strength of the team right now or have been the last 3 years. UNLESS, we switch Hali to OLB and draft LB early and heavily in ’09 to better fit this new alignment.
BUT wait can Dorsey adjust to playing Nose Guard? He’s basically a Defensive Tackle and might not benefit from the change. But, again the new 3-4 alignment would help alleviate the lack of pass rush. Providing a quick means of improving our opportunities at sacking the QB, by causing confusion on the opponents pass blocking schemes.
Oh but then again doesn’t it take like a few years to develop a LB to properly play in 3-4 alignment?
OH Sorry…..Just having a conversation with myself? Now I’m more confused about the future possibilities with the team. That’s a pleasant thought.
Opinions are like A--holes, everyones got one.
Kuharich Can Go Too
If we sign a new GM I hope for the integrity of the team that Kuharich will remain until after the 2009 season. Would hate to lose the detailed information gathered on the College prospects to be lost with the transition of GM’s.
Why? If it’s Pioli or any other personnel guy currently in the NFL, he’s already scouting the same draft prospects that the Chiefs are. He’ll have access to all of the scouting reports the Chiefs’ scouts have produced (because those belong to the team, not Kuharich or the former GM). It’s not like Kuharich was a genius and his work was so extraordinary that what he brings is irreplaceable. It likely won’t make a bit of difference if Kuharich is here or not so if Pioli (or whoever) wants to fire him, he can go right ahead.
BUT wait can Dorsey adjust to playing Nose Guard? He’s basically a Defensive Tackle and might not benefit from the change. But, again the new 3-4 alignment would help alleviate the lack of pass rush.
Somehow I suspect that if the team hires a good coach he’ll figure out a way to get some use out of Dorsey’s talents (and everyone else’s) or they’ll bring in players they can use. Not every coach is as obsessed about sticking square pegs through round holes as Herm is.
A GM should be given no less than five years on the job to prove his ability. After that he should be removed if it's been more than 2 years since his team made the playoffs or more than three years since his team won a playoff game.
The Chiefs should win 5 to 6 games this year and no less than 4 for this season to be considered progress in any way. If he can't win at least 9 games next season, Herm is a joke.
Yup
We need a future defensive leader, his name is James Laurinaitis and he can be selected in round 1 of the upcoming Draft.
"But what do I know, I’m like an empty room with a large ECHO"
You know what I hate the most...
Is that Herm regardless of his faults as Head Coach is going to go down along with Carl because of the laundry list of Peterson’s faults.
Herm knew that this year was going to be hard, and he did it anyways for the good of the franchise. How will he be repaid, but be put on the chopping block along with Carl. I admire the fact that Herm knew that he would have a high probability of being fired after this rebuilding project if the team didn’t win RIGHT NOW, but he still did it anyways, say what you want about Herm the man has integrity.
Herm did what he thought was for the ultimate good of the team, and stuck with that plan even if it did cost him his job. He did what was right not for himself, but for the team and Kansas City. Carl just wanted to prolong the inevitable. Its Carl that should be canned he deserved that distinction for the past 10 years. Herm on the other hand deserves at least another year. He deserves that much from doing the right thing, but I don’t think he will get it. What has society come to that people who do the right thing will never be given a fair shake only because they did not produce results NOW. This is the fast food mentality that our world has grown accustomed to.
Opinions are like A--holes, everyones got one.
by aPacificChief on Dec 16, 2008 9:58 PM CST up reply actions
Oh Well
He got to be a head coach in the NFL for eight years, got paid a lot of money for a losing record, and never had to produce results for the last three of those or accept responsibility for his lack of results. I don’t feel bad for him at all.
It’s the NFL…nobody gets to win only 2 games in their third year on the job without answering for it unless they’re running an expansion franchise.
A GM should be given no less than five years on the job to prove his ability. After that he should be removed if it's been more than 2 years since his team made the playoffs or more than three years since his team won a playoff game.
The Chiefs should win 5 to 6 games this year and no less than 4 for this season to be considered progress in any way. If he can't win at least 9 games next season, Herm is a joke.
And
Herm on the other hand deserves at least another year.
Coaches “deserve” what their record says they deserve. Coaches who win 4 games or less for two years in a row deserve to get fired.
A GM should be given no less than five years on the job to prove his ability. After that he should be removed if it's been more than 2 years since his team made the playoffs or more than three years since his team won a playoff game.
The Chiefs should win 5 to 6 games this year and no less than 4 for this season to be considered progress in any way. If he can't win at least 9 games next season, Herm is a joke.
Exactly!.....Do you wanna Super size your order?
Opinions are like A--holes, everyones got one.
by aPacificChief on Dec 17, 2008 1:40 AM CST up reply actions
Sorry That I Don't Want To Wait 10 More Years For Herm To Show Us That He's The Same Coach He's Been For The Last Eight
But if expecting improvement instead of decline over a three year span is indicative of a fast food mentality, then I’ll add extra fries to my order.
Way of the world…no coach in the NFL gets a season where he doesn’t have to produce any results. And if Herm thought 2008 was that sort of season, then he absolutely deserves to get canned.
A GM should be given no less than five years on the job to prove his ability. After that he should be removed if it's been more than 2 years since his team made the playoffs or more than three years since his team won a playoff game.
The Chiefs should win 5 to 6 games this year and no less than 4 for this season to be considered progress in any way. If he can't win at least 9 games next season, Herm is a joke.
Not 10 nor 2 years, but One year.
I’ve read many pieces about how Herm wanted to get this project started two years ago, but was cut off at every corner by Carl (that sounds more fact than fiction, since we’ve been with CP for 20 years and know a little about him).
I’ve read you and DJ back and forth on this issue, and found some valid points from both sides. I agree that this rebuilding project has been going on longer than 3 years, but the rebuild did not take into full effect until this past year when Herm decided to completely strip the roster and start all over. In the belief that he would no longer bring in major free agents who would take playing time away from the younger players.
These young guys are going to get better some may not, but the only way to find out for sure is to play them now. Not masquerade the fact that the team is far from ever competing long term. ITs gotta get worse before it gets better, and I think the worse is behind us. Especially now that CP is no longer a part of the team. If Herm does stink it up again next year get rid of him, but how about if they get better then what? The Herm has his mistakes, eveyone does. The question is, is he learning from them or does he continue to repeat his old ways?
Opinions are like A--holes, everyones got one.
by aPacificChief on Dec 17, 2008 5:22 AM CST up reply actions
You mean ...
You’re still upset because he made it to the playoff four times in six years, three of which were in years when the New England Patriots were at their best and were at the top of his division — one of which he beat the Patriots for the AFC East division title and had the best record against them overall of any team in their division.
His two worst years have been here, one when he’s had a team filled with broken down, old, overpaid veterans and another when he’s had the ‘veterans’ were the guys who’d been with the team for two or three years.
Give him another year — heck, I’d be for giving him two more years — to really put this team together the way he envisioned it and then see where it goes. Then, if it still doesn’t work, scrap it and start over.
Your method — which would involve scrapping the rebuild and starting over in the midst of it — will only result in setting the team even further back.
But, hey, maybe that’s what you’re looking for, right … ? After all, if Herm’s plan works and the Chiefs get good, you won’t have anything to bitch about day in and day out. Heck, you might even have to admit that you were wrong about him. And that, of course, would lead to the end of the world — cats and dogs living together and such.
Have to disagree
Miami went from 1-15 to being a playoff contender and it took…an offseason. Not 1 or 2 years more. They scrubbed the GM and coach and putting the RIGHT people in management turned it around. They proved they could do it, so can we.
Herm’s last 2 season’s here only produced losing records…he’s gone. I was all for giving him 1 more year after this season….just to prove I was right about his poor coaching. Now that Carl’s gone my stance has changed. Let’s be another Miami and turn this thing around.
Bill Parcell’s: "You are what your record says you are."
The Chiefs need to be playoff contenders in 2009 for me to consider improvement. Clark wanted it in 2008...I'll give them an additional year.
+ Atlanta
"The spirit, the will to win, and the will to excel are the things that endure. These qualities are so much more important than the events that occur." - Vince Lombardi
Agreed
And Atlanta also did it with an unproven QB. Some thought their competitiveness was gone after Vick left. I never felt Vick was the be all end all as far as QB’s. They also changed mgmt. and have become a factor for the playoffs.
It just goes to show rebuilding CAN be done. It just doesn’t HAVE to be regutting to the degree we’ve done AND MUST be accomplished by competent management. Now I’m not saying they’re done with where they want to be…that remains to be seen, but I am saying that it doesn’t take years to make a significant impact and show improvement.
Both Miami and Atlanta are the example.
Bill Parcell’s: "You are what your record says you are."
The Chiefs need to be playoff contenders in 2009 for me to consider improvement. Clark wanted it in 2008...I'll give them an additional year.
Who's the better team ... ?
In five years, who’s the better team? Kansas City or Miami?
I’m going to go with Kansas City.
Miami just plugged holes and those holes (and others) are going to need to be re-filled year after year. Chad Pennington’s the key to their success this season down there and, well, he’s not exactly going to be a long-term solution.
The Chiefs, on the other hand, are rebuilding the way the Patriots and Colts did a decade ago — stripping it all down and rebuilding it all from the ground up.
And, frankly, I’d much rather have a perennial playoff contender than a flash-in-the-pan one off that you’re going to have in Miami.
Maybe
In five years, who’s the better team? Kansas City or Miami?
I’m going to go with Kansas City.
But like I said, I’m perfectly willing to bet good money that Herm won’t be a part of it.
A GM should be given no less than five years on the job to prove his ability. After that he should be removed if it's been more than 2 years since his team made the playoffs or more than three years since his team won a playoff game.
The Chiefs should win 5 to 6 games this year and no less than 4 for this season to be considered progress in any way. If he can't win at least 9 games next season, Herm is a joke.
The better team will be the one that outperforms....
….Parcell’s. If we can get mgmt. that can do that, then we’ll be a better team. You can call it what you want, but going from 1-15 to a playoff team during one offseason IS NOT plugging holes. If it were only that easy then anyone that can evaluate numbers on paper in regards to performnace could do the GM job.
Bill Parcell’s: "You are what your record says you are."
The Chiefs need to be playoff contenders in 2009 for me to consider improvement. Clark wanted it in 2008...I'll give them an additional year.
Right me if I am wrong
but didn’t Miami bring Parcells in at the end of the season when there were a couple of games left so he could evaluate the current staff and players at that time?
Clark may be doing the same thing, time will tell.
We need a future defensive leader, his name is James Laurinaitis and he can be selected in round 1 of the upcoming Draft.
"But what do I know, I’m like an empty room with a large ECHO"
Exactly right Lanier
Bill Parcell’s: "You are what your record says you are."
The Chiefs need to be playoff contenders in 2009 for me to consider improvement. Clark wanted it in 2008...I'll give them an additional year.
Cam Cameron
He got to twist in the wind for a little bit too, until Parcells found his guy in Sparano.
I see a lot of parallels between this and the Miami situation. I doubt it’s coincidental on Hunt’s part.
A GM should be given no less than five years on the job to prove his ability. After that he should be removed if it's been more than 2 years since his team made the playoffs or more than three years since his team won a playoff game.
The Chiefs should win 5 to 6 games this year and no less than 4 for this season to be considered progress in any way. If he can't win at least 9 games next season, Herm is a joke.
It's not coincidental
…Clark can’t argue with the numbers and success of other franchises. He realized that Carl’s way wasn’t getting it done after 19 friggin years.
Bill Parcell’s: "You are what your record says you are."
The Chiefs need to be playoff contenders in 2009 for me to consider improvement. Clark wanted it in 2008...I'll give them an additional year.
Hunt Was A Market Analyst
He knows how to spot faulty patterns and patterns that work.
God bless the free market. :)
A GM should be given no less than five years on the job to prove his ability. After that he should be removed if it's been more than 2 years since his team made the playoffs or more than three years since his team won a playoff game.
The Chiefs should win 5 to 6 games this year and no less than 4 for this season to be considered progress in any way. If he can't win at least 9 games next season, Herm is a joke.
I love talking specifics
The unintagibles are so borishly lame and a sign of socialistic tendencies.
Bill Parcell’s: "You are what your record says you are."
The Chiefs need to be playoff contenders in 2009 for me to consider improvement. Clark wanted it in 2008...I'll give them an additional year.
What Do You Really Expect?
After all, most of the apologists didn’t recognize the irony in calling Peterson’s “strategy” a five-year plan.
A GM should be given no less than five years on the job to prove his ability. After that he should be removed if it's been more than 2 years since his team made the playoffs or more than three years since his team won a playoff game.
The Chiefs should win 5 to 6 games this year and no less than 4 for this season to be considered progress in any way. If he can't win at least 9 games next season, Herm is a joke.
That plan and Herm taking us to a SB is as likely as
“Waiting for Godot”
Bill Parcell’s: "You are what your record says you are."
The Chiefs need to be playoff contenders in 2009 for me to consider improvement. Clark wanted it in 2008...I'll give them an additional year.
I Know He'll Show Up Eventually
If only we wait just a little longer :)
A GM should be given no less than five years on the job to prove his ability. After that he should be removed if it's been more than 2 years since his team made the playoffs or more than three years since his team won a playoff game.
The Chiefs should win 5 to 6 games this year and no less than 4 for this season to be considered progress in any way. If he can't win at least 9 games next season, Herm is a joke.
I loved reading "absurd" literature in High School and College
It prepared me later in life to dissect and disseminate politicans and GM’s :)
Bill Parcell’s: "You are what your record says you are."
The Chiefs need to be playoff contenders in 2009 for me to consider improvement. Clark wanted it in 2008...I'll give them an additional year.
If You Want Absurd
Check out the movie, “Pentagon Wars” about the military’s development of the Bradley fighting vehicle. It’s a perfect demonstration of what a waste the “We can’t quit now” attitude becomes when you lose sight of the original goals.
Funny film too. :)
A GM should be given no less than five years on the job to prove his ability. After that he should be removed if it's been more than 2 years since his team made the playoffs or more than three years since his team won a playoff game.
The Chiefs should win 5 to 6 games this year and no less than 4 for this season to be considered progress in any way. If he can't win at least 9 games next season, Herm is a joke.
Saw it tyvm...yes, very funny. Right up there with Wag the Dog.
Bill Parcell’s: "You are what your record says you are."
The Chiefs need to be playoff contenders in 2009 for me to consider improvement. Clark wanted it in 2008...I'll give them an additional year.
"We're not gonna have a war, we're gonna have the appearance of a war."
We’re not gonna have a FB team, we’re gonna have the appearance of a FB team.
Bill Parcell’s: "You are what your record says you are."
The Chiefs need to be playoff contenders in 2009 for me to consider improvement. Clark wanted it in 2008...I'll give them an additional year.
“What’s the thing people remember about the Gulf War? A bomb falling down a chimney. Let me tell you something: I was in the building where we filmed that with a 10-inch model made out of Legos.”
Bill Parcell’s: "You are what your record says you are."
The Chiefs need to be playoff contenders in 2009 for me to consider improvement. Clark wanted it in 2008...I'll give them an additional year.
A Better Descriptor For It
Would have been “”http://www.nebraskahistory.org/publish/publicat/timeline/pay_the_rainmaker.htm" target="new">The Rainmaker Scam"
A GM should be given no less than five years on the job to prove his ability. After that he should be removed if it's been more than 2 years since his team made the playoffs or more than three years since his team won a playoff game.
The Chiefs should win 5 to 6 games this year and no less than 4 for this season to be considered progress in any way. If he can't win at least 9 games next season, Herm is a joke.
Whoops
A GM should be given no less than five years on the job to prove his ability. After that he should be removed if it's been more than 2 years since his team made the playoffs or more than three years since his team won a playoff game.
The Chiefs should win 5 to 6 games this year and no less than 4 for this season to be considered progress in any way. If he can't win at least 9 games next season, Herm is a joke.
It might take time
to adjust, but I think the 3-4 is the best base defense to use in the NFL these days. Heck, in most games you could use a nickel package as the base defense. Few team use a full time fullback and you have to free up people to cover the extra receiver this creates. A good OLB can cover he extra TE or an RB on most plays. I’d like to see a team experiment with the 3-3 defense, bringing in some “hybrid” type players (cough…Pollard) to play the “inside” corners that need to be quicker than linebackers but still hit like one.
by Chiefs4Life on Dec 17, 2008 10:07 AM CST up reply actions
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