New GM From Outside Organization = Herm Will Be Fired
by ChiefDJ on Dec 15, 2008 8:09 PM CST
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PrintI've been saying for months that Herm was going to get another year no matter what happens this year. Well, looks like I'm probably going to be wrong.
If there were plans to keep Herm and the coaching staff for another year they would no doubt, at least for a year, promote someone from within the organization to carry on the GM duties for another year until it was decided to either keep Herm for several more years or cut ties with him at which time the interim GM would be released as well and a new one brought in.
No GM from outside the organization is going to want to keep the previous regimes guys around. They will be looking to make a name for themselves and hopefully will be connected enough to have their own people to bring in. The fact they are making this move of Carl resigning (AKA, being fired) this early tells me A) Clark has already decided its time to cut ties and make a fresh start, and B) that he probably already has his GM candidate in mind.
Though I've stuck up for Herm and fought to the death for two years now, I am a Chiefs fan, not a Herm fan. If this is the decision Clark wants to take this organization in, I believe it is a show of decisive leadership on his part and that is something the Chiefs haven't really ever had from their owner. I welcome it.
If for some odd reason the new GM decides to retain Herm, I'm fine with that too for another year. But I think this is a case of 1+1=2. New GM from outside the organization = this is Herms last year.
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of Arrowhead Pride's writers or editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of Arrowhead Pride writers or editors.
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Good points
Although, I still see Herm getting one more year. Remember, Clark said he would be the one that ultimately made the decision on the head coach. And from what I can tell, he likes the job Herm is doing.
Clark has class
And I don’t think he would ever speak negatively about any of his employee’s because its reflects on the organization. Until today I thought Clark was an enabler and not so much worried about the success of this team but more about the business. I’m beginning to change my mind. At the start and throughout this season he’s spoke highly of Carl and gave us no reason indication his job was in jeaprody. So just because Clark projects that he likes the job Herm’s doing doesn’t make it neccessarily the case. He probably, like some of us, see’s parts he really likes in Herm and lots of parts he doesn’t.
by KansasCityShuffle on Dec 15, 2008 8:35 PM CST up reply actions
We concur
The whole development plan kinda makes sense to keep Herm, even though we’d put more of the current (as in flavor of the week) concern about our ‘will to lose’ on Herm than Carl. Honestly, we’d consider Chan Gailey for HC, albeit despite Chris’ new halftime adjustments theory, Gailey’s at least proven an ability to adjust over a season.
So whose in, and what does that mean for our upcoming draft position and Tony G’s off season status.
by Official Arrowhead Pride Parade on Dec 15, 2008 8:37 PM CST up reply actions
I'd think
Tony is happy about Carl’s departure. From the media I get the sense their relationship has deteriorated over the trade request. Wonder if there will be a quasi Jason Taylor scenario where new a GM comes in and moves their star veteran for picks. I hope on the contrary Tony’s refreshened by the change and decides to finish his career a Chief. Call it wishful thinking…
by KansasCityShuffle on Dec 15, 2008 8:48 PM CST up reply actions
I'm in heaven
There is a Santa Claus. I don’t care what happens as long as Cherm and his staff are gone by next year.
I'm not so sure that's the case
As Clark said he holds the final decision about Herm.
Now, I believe whoever the new GM might be, if they have someone in to replace Herm and is like-minded in philosophy, then maybe he could get replaced.
But honestly, I hope that some of the coaches do get canned. Not necessarily Herm, but Dick Curl and Tim Krumrie definitely come to mind.
Thank you and so long Carl Peterson.
I agree with your assessment, especially Clark's repeated emphasis on someone with no ties to the Chiefs.
But, who knows, stranger things have happened. The new GM could keep Herm on to evaluate the state of the team from the inside during a non-culpable year for the GM.
Agreed
I can see him sticking around for another year because he knows the players the best. Most of them are younger making them slightly more different to get a read on.
by Joel Thorman on Dec 15, 2008 8:21 PM CST up reply actions
Agreed
I like the decisive action taken by Hunt and I think its great timing. It shows he’s not content with losing and especially by the fashion we did. After watching the video of his interview I’ve earned a great deal of respect for Clark. Perhaps the reason he signed on and was supportive of the rebuilding effort is because he knew in his heart it needed to be done. He set off of on it with the personnel/players he had and now is preparing to make the neccessary changes to continue with the plan SUCCESSFULLY. I admittedly have some apprehension about a new regime wanting to build a new house even though we gutted our old one and are remodeling. But I now trust, unlike before, that whomever is hired will be a good evaluator of talent and ultimately whoever is good enough will stay in KC. But newfound fan favorites like Bradley, Babin, and Boiman I can’t invision returning either. One things for certain if Carl & Herm are gone, we can guarantee Gunter is gone. Thoughts like these are what make me think the Chiefs are in better hands than they’ve been in a long, long time. Again, it feels like Christmas came early. Thanks Clark
by KansasCityShuffle on Dec 15, 2008 8:28 PM CST reply actions
50-50 on Coaching Change
Yes a new GM will want his own guy on the other hand I could see one giving Herm another year provided he upgrades his staff.
You are dead on this time DJ.
Wow we agree on something!:)
At least 10-6 next year taking our division, or Herm goes.
Here’s the thing, why would you fire assistant and positions coaches and keep Herm? The head coach usually brings in the guys he wants. If Herm stays I don’t see much change in the other morons. The only way you can clean house like that is to really just fire them all.
KC Tat Guy
Because
Herm may not want to keep those guys, someone else, cough-Carl-cough, maybe forced Herm’s hand a little.
Thank you and so long Carl Peterson.
The thing is
Herm is in the last year of his contract. No potential assistant is going to want to go to work for a coach that could be a lame duck. If Herm is kept next year, he will pretty much have to keep his same staff or else Clark will have to give him an extension so that potential assistant coaches will feel comfortable that they won’ t be coming here for a 1 year stint and then be looking for work again.
I sincerely do still hope that Herm will be here next year. I know there are better coaches out there, but for rebuilding this team, I think he is the right guy. Once the talent is in place it might be time for a better Xs and Os guy, but I don’t think we’re there yet.
But it all comes down to no prominant GM candidate is going to want to come in and try to work with someone elses leftovers. They are going to want to make their mark. I just don’t see a GOOD GM candidate being willing to take the job if they didn’t have control over the decision of who the coach is going to be.
The only way I really can see Herm staying is if the new GM is someone that is associated with Herm in the past somehow, but I can’t really think of who that might be (Tony Dungy?).
We Disagree About Herm's Abilities
But I completely agree with your reasoning behind why Herm won’t be retained. It’ll compromise the hiring of his coaching staff, it’ll be a problem for the new GM, and a signficant portion of the fan base just won’t stand for it.
Clark Hunt may like Herm, but I don’t think there’s any way he gets Herm to stay if he wants a good GM replacing Peterson.
Ding, dong, the King is dead!!!
The Chiefs should win 5 to 6 games this year and no less than 4 for this season to be considered progress in any way. If he can't win at least 9 games next season, Herm is a joke.
I don't think the fanbase has any say in the matter
The fanbase has been screaming for Carls head for 10 years. Until Chiefs fans stop buying tickets, they have no real sway over decision making and so far, they haven’t stopped buying tickets.
I’ve been saying for months that Carl was going to be a sacrificial lamb so that Herm could stay on. I just don’t see that happening with a GM from outside coming in though. If they are going to hire a legitimate up and coming GM, he is going to want to make his own decisions.
I think the only way Herm stays is if they pick up some retread GM in which case many of you could be begging for Carl back much like people were crying for Marty back.
Juding by Sunday's home game
Do you honestly believe people haven’t stopped buying tickets?
by KansasCityShuffle on Dec 15, 2008 11:07 PM CST up reply actions
Or judging
whichever you prefer ; ^ )
by KansasCityShuffle on Dec 15, 2008 11:07 PM CST up reply actions
That Was An Empty Stadium
And I seriously doubt that Clark Hunt didn’t notice.
The fans who pay the Chiefs had quit buying what Peterson was selling. Therefore the fanbase did have an effect on the decision.
Ding, dong, the King is dead!!!
The Chiefs should win 5 to 6 games this year and no less than 4 for this season to be considered progress in any way. If he can't win at least 9 games next season, Herm is a joke.
Booed at half
Not to mention that Clark was booed at halftime. I am sure if he showed up this weekend he would be cheered mightily.
My only hope is that a
Coach with a similar philosophy is brought in if Herm is fired. That will keep the rebuilding fairly steadfast. But will all the HC firings this season, HC candidates will be slim to come by IMHO.
Thank you and so long Carl Peterson.
Why Would We Want That?
The rebuilding effort generated six wins in the last two years and few of the players we drafted to fit that system developed.
Guys like Dorsey and Albert will adapt to a new system…or a good coach will find a way to use the skills they do have. It’s not like these guys suddenly become worthless once the scheme changes, because it’s not like they were All-Pros within the current system.
Ding, dong, the King is dead!!!
The Chiefs should win 5 to 6 games this year and no less than 4 for this season to be considered progress in any way. If he can't win at least 9 games next season, Herm is a joke.
They are also rookies
That has been a lot of the problem this year. Rookie and young player mistakes. That only changes with time, not with different coaching.
How Long Does A Player Get Lumped In With The Rookies
Two years? Three years? Four?
If it was just the rookies struggling I certainly wouldn’t have been bitching as much about Herm. Nobody on that team was playing like a Pro Bowler.
Ding, dong, the King is dead!!!
The Chiefs should win 5 to 6 games this year and no less than 4 for this season to be considered progress in any way. If he can't win at least 9 games next season, Herm is a joke.
Its not just rookie's mistakes its "rookie mistakes"
Most of the mistakes i saw Sunday were made by vets. Surtain blowing deep coverage, Bowe (not a rookie when you are 1st round pick who has started almost every game) dropping the onside, or Wade Smith throwing a “look-out” block on the option play when thiggs got smashed, and oh yeah a coach with 29 years experience (Herm Edwards) screws the pooch in the second half with his terrible game/clock management. Those aren’t rookies making mistakes, those are rookie mistakes made by poorly coached veterans/also-rans who got cut from another team for a REASON. (or who our late GM traded for)
"A good plan violently executed now is better than a perfect plan executed next week."
Sorry About That Omission
Of course, Gonzalez….but I’m not about to credit his performance level to Herm. Tony G was this great before Herm got here.
Ding, dong, the King is dead!!!
The Chiefs should win 5 to 6 games this year and no less than 4 for this season to be considered progress in any way. If he can't win at least 9 games next season, Herm is a joke.
Not saying you should
in any way, shape, or form. Just don’t lump him in with the crap Herm has brought to this team :)
"In the NFL, coaching has to make a difference when the games are close. The talent level across the league from team to team is too similar. Great head coaches do their best work in the fourth quarter when the game is on the line. Instead, we’ve seen Herm blow timeouts, put the game in the hands of the league’s worst defense, and most recently, run Larry Johnson behind Wade Smith and Adrian Jones as if they were Tim Grunhard and Will Shields in their prime.
Dr. Frankenstein is gone, but his monster is still roaming the sideline at Arrowhead Stadium." -C.E. Wendler, Warpaint Illustrated
This is what Clark Hunt said, "I met with Herm earlier today to let him know about Carl, and told him that I was very supportive of his approach that he’s taken in rebuilding the franchise and rebuilding the football team. The new GM will have a significant input into his future and we’ll wait to tackle that until we have the new GM on board."
Notice he didn’t say " I told him he’s doing a good job". He said " I was very supportive of his approach that he’s taken". Big difference in the wording here. He very carefully made the same statements over and over almost word for word to reporters.
Also take notice he said about the new GM having a significant input into Edwards future.
If Clarke does get a GM from the outside of the Chiefs org., I don’t believe Edwards will be kept on another year. It makes no sense to me for a new GM to keep on a head coach with one year left on contract “just because he knows the players best” as was said previously.
The outside GM will bring in a new head coach, his own scouts, basically his own staff that has the same vision. I look for a big clean out of the entire staff on the GM side while the business side stays relatively in place.
The longer this sinks in,
the more I’m coming back to my thinking Herm should go too. He has never shown any inkling that he is HC material. He was brought in here by CP, after a 4-12 season with the Jets, with a NY fanbase that was calling for his head on a stick… and CP gave a 4th round pick for him as a consolation prize.
And what has he brought us? A worthless playoff game with Vermeil players. A 4-12 season, and a season that can go 2-16, 3-15, or 4-12 again. That is his progress. That is his track record with the two teams he’s coached; that is, in 4 years he will demolish a team. He has been given 8 years in this league to learn how to manage the game and make smart decisions, what has he done? Continually in almost EVERY GAME made poor decisions with challenges and/or timeouts that have cost the team dearly in the 4th quarter of games.
It’s not over folks, Herm still has to go.
"In the NFL, coaching has to make a difference when the games are close. The talent level across the league from team to team is too similar. Great head coaches do their best work in the fourth quarter when the game is on the line. Instead, we’ve seen Herm blow timeouts, put the game in the hands of the league’s worst defense, and most recently, run Larry Johnson behind Wade Smith and Adrian Jones as if they were Tim Grunhard and Will Shields in their prime.
Dr. Frankenstein is gone, but his monster is still roaming the sideline at Arrowhead Stadium." -C.E. Wendler, Warpaint Illustrated
They will probaly
just hire Herm’s possible replacement as an assistant and wait to see how the team looks next year.
He will not survive.
How can they find a top tier GM if he cannot build the whole team to his liking? Herm does not have a record of consistent winning.
At least 10-6 next year taking our division, or Herm goes.
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