Herm Safe
by woodman212 on Dec 1, 2008 7:10 PM CST
103 comments
If noone else is watching Monday Night Countdown, Mort just reported that Herm is likely safe this year and even next year. He suggested that 2010 would be Herm’s pressure year as renovations will be complete and they will want a good product on the field. The reasoning he suggested was that Clark admires the longevity and consistency that the Steelers and other organizations have and that he likes coaches with personality and integrity and Herm certainly has that. Personally, I wish he would have found someone better before committing to longevity, lol.
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of Arrowhead Pride's writers or editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of Arrowhead Pride writers or editors.
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Good for longevity
I agree the more successful teams do have a consistant head coach. One thing I’ve noticed is that not to many people on this site like Herm. I personally think he’s alright. He isn’t the greatest but he makes some good calls. Some bad. We should give Herm a chance next year. And the year after that depends on what moves we make in the this offseason and how well we do next year of course. Hopefully next year we will win at least 6. Maybe since we play in a bad division maybe even win it.
by NakedDave on Dec 1, 2008 7:16 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
The Difference Is
That successful teams commit to good coaches…they don’t commit to coaches who’ve lost most of their games for seven years just for the sake of “longevity”
Herm could run this team for 100 years and the Chiefs will never be worth a damn as long as he’s in charge. He was a loser in New York, he’s been a loser here, and he’ll continue to be a loser in the future. Because he’s a terrible football coach.
Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.
by UCrawford on Dec 1, 2008 7:46 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
The good thing is
We will get to find out.
by ChiefDJ on Dec 1, 2008 11:05 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Regardless of history
He’s sure off to a great start here..
by KansasCityShuffle on Dec 1, 2008 11:45 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
It's not as though he inherited a great team
Vermeil knew the jig was up. He knew that by bringing in veteran players he had a limited window in which to win and unfortunately, they missed it.
Its pretty tough to expect fantastic results when you start out with nothing. It is going to take time to get the level of talent back up to what is necessary to be competitive. It doesn’t matter what coach you bring in, if they don’t have talent on the field, they aren’t going to win a lot.
by ChiefDJ on Dec 2, 2008 6:42 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Three Years In
And you’re still blaming Vermeil. How about the guy who actually assembled that team, who’s still running it? Why not blame him?
Oh, that’s right…you only shift blame to people who are still working for the Chiefs when it doesn’t make them look bad enough to be fired.
Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.
by UCrawford on Dec 2, 2008 8:33 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I hope your real personality is nothing like the one on this site.
Because you be nasty.
by AngryJesus on Dec 2, 2008 12:33 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Says The Guy Who Posted The Picture Of Jesus Flipping The Bird :)
The Chiefs should win 5 to 6 games this year and no less than 4 for this season to be considered progress in any way.
by UCrawford on Dec 2, 2008 1:01 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm glad I didn't see that
It’s times like that I am happy I missed something, but sad it was even done.
"But what do I know, I’m like an empty room with a large ECHO"
by Lanier63 on Dec 2, 2008 1:08 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I Looked That Up
The tattoos were legit, but apparently they’re just temporary tattoos…non-permanent. :)
The Chiefs should win 5 to 6 games this year and no less than 4 for this season to be considered progress in any way.
by UCrawford on Dec 2, 2008 1:21 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Ohh
Well that makes it soo much better…
by Joel Thorman on Dec 2, 2008 2:06 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
And Apparently Painless
So it’s not like the kids are going to be psychologically scarred. :)
The Chiefs should win 5 to 6 games this year and no less than 4 for this season to be considered progress in any way.
by UCrawford on Dec 2, 2008 7:34 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
You're still using his losing record in three years against him so why not?
If there had been more than 5 quality players out of 53 on the roster left a year after Vermeil left then it might be different, but there wasn’t.
by ChiefDJ on Dec 2, 2008 6:15 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Who?
Vermeil? I haven’t bitched about Vermeil at all. I thought he was a pretty good coach in charge of a flawed team.
The Chiefs should win 5 to 6 games this year and no less than 4 for this season to be considered progress in any way.
by UCrawford on Dec 2, 2008 7:03 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Granted...
Herm didnt inherit a GREAT team, but he did inherit a competetive/ contending team. In 3 three years he has run this team into the ground… And I suppose thats something that should happen if you wanna “re-build from the ground up”… I just think that there was a better way to go about this “youth movement”.
A lot of people were giving Herm the excuse that the team needs guys on the team that bleed red and gold. Day 1 CHIEFS…. And while thats fine and all, it’s gonna take a little more than a team full of rookies to go anywhere. And I think that Mark Bradley and Tyler Thigpen are perfect examples of that. I mean, Thigpen was on the Vikes and Bradley was a Bear… NOT CHIEFS to begin with.
So, I think (considering our cap) a few more Free Agent aquisitions would have helped to speed up the process a bit.
It’s gonna be interesting to see what kind of moves we make this off-season in FA.
by ROC 27 on Dec 2, 2008 11:33 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I knew that it was gonna be tough to rebuild
but I thought “from the ground up” meant not having to dig a thirty foot hole first.
"But what do I know, I’m like an empty room with a large ECHO"
by Lanier63 on Dec 2, 2008 1:09 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Normally It Doesn't Mean That
Unless your goal is to build a cheap team the first season. Which I suspect was part of the motivation this year.
Ironically, we’d be a lot cheaper if we hadn’t signed Demorrio Williams to a big contract…or cut Napoleon Harris because Gunther couldn’t get along with him.
The Chiefs should win 5 to 6 games this year and no less than 4 for this season to be considered progress in any way.
by UCrawford on Dec 2, 2008 1:16 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
The goal was
….to recoup some of the org.’s expenses for the stadium rebuilding. They actually paid a portion of the cost. That was a business decision through and through….bank on it.
Bill Parcell’s: "You are what your record says you are."
The Chiefs need to be playoff contenders in 2009 for me to consider improvement. Clark wanted it in 2008...I'll give them an additional year.
by THE_TRUTH on Dec 2, 2008 1:57 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I Thought Whitlock Was Just Conspiracy Theorizing When He Said That
But I’m of the opinion now that’s what’s happening.
The Chiefs should win 5 to 6 games this year and no less than 4 for this season to be considered progress in any way.
by UCrawford on Dec 2, 2008 2:02 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Nice find
Mort said, Herm “cinched it” regarding his job for next year and the year beyond.
by Joel Thorman on Dec 1, 2008 7:20 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
yes...
with a second win…haha…made me shake my head…
by woodman212 on Dec 1, 2008 7:24 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Two Fucking Wins And He Cinches His Job
That tears it…Clark Hunt doesn’t give a shit about this team and if he publicly makes that statement neither will I.
Two years before a head coach has to provide any results is absolutely unacceptable in today’s NFL.
Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.
by UCrawford on Dec 1, 2008 7:33 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Especially When He's Been Here Three Seasons And The Team's Gone Backwards Every Year
If this report is true it just means that Clark Hunt’s cut from the same cloth as his dad…a guy who never cared whether the Chiefs were competitive as long as his bottom line was in the black. People used to call Lamar Hunt a class act. Personally, I don’t think anyone who rips off his customers by giving them a mediocre product to reward his personal sycophants (while operating out of a taxpayer-subsidized stadium) is anything more than a thief.
Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.
by UCrawford on Dec 1, 2008 7:39 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Completely the opposite
Lamar cared more about the NFL as a whole and the Chiefs suffered for it. As long as they were profitable it was all he cared about.
I think Clark is the opposite. He doesn’t have the commitment to the NFL as a whole as he does to the Chiefs. He is doing what he thinks NEEDS to be done and he has the guy he thinks can do it. I know you and a lot of other people disagree, but just because you don’t like the guy he has chosen to do the job does not automatically mean Clark doesn’t care. I think he cares much more than Lamar ever did about making the Chiefs a winner.
He made a commitment to Herm to do the rebuild. If he had told Herm his job was on the line if he didn’t put a winner on the field, I’m sure they would have gone about things much differently. Instead, they are taking the long view of rebuilding this team the right way and Clark is making it evident to everyone that he is not going to bail out on the plan midway through just because things got tough. Clark is willing to give up money in ticket sales to make sure this team is built into a championship caliber team sooner rather than later.
This will make the Chiefs a much more attractive organization to quality coaches in the future as well. Knowing you have an owner that is going to stick with you if there are some hiccups along the way rather than fire you whenever the fans get upset means a lot to good coaches looking for some stability.
by ChiefDJ on Dec 1, 2008 11:13 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Who saved Herm's ass more
Bones or Chan?
by KansasCityShuffle on Dec 1, 2008 11:47 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Bones Would Be My Guess
But I don’t think it really mattered. If this story is true Clark Hunt never cared about results and he probably would have kept Herm even if Thigpen had played like he did in Atlanta. He doesn’t care.
Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.
by UCrawford on Dec 2, 2008 12:13 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
And Addressing Your Points
I think Clark is the opposite.
Based on what? His teams have won six games in two years, he’s got the same guy running the show who put the team in the toilet to begin with, and his team’s draft record has been disastrous. You can wish Clark is the opposite all you want. But the results indicate he’s not any different than his old man…he’s just cheaper and has an even higher tolerance for crap.
He is doing what he thinks NEEDS to be done and he has the guy he thinks can do it. I know you and a lot of other people disagree, but just because you don’t like the guy he has chosen to do the job does not automatically mean Clark doesn’t care. I think he cares much more than Lamar ever did about making the Chiefs a winner.
Seriously, DJ, that’s just a load of gibberish backed by not a shred of proof and it’s clearly contradicted by the team’s consistently declining performance under Clark Hunt’s reign. What you think is happening has no apparent relation to what is actually happening.
You sound like you’re in a cult.
Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.
by UCrawford on Dec 2, 2008 12:19 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
You sound like a Raiders fan
Seriously, I’ve never heard someone who hated his own team more. You have not one shred of anything good to say about them ever no matter what happens. All you do is point fingers.
How do YOU know what Clark is trying to do or what he wants? You’re pissed because you can’t stand Carl Peterson and by extension, Herm Edwards and have decided that no matter what they do its going to be crap.
The team had to be rebuilt and whether you want to accept that fact or not doesn’t matter one bit because you’re not in the decision making loop. You’re just an impatient fan that likes to bitch.
You can’t make something from nothing and no matter how much you kick and scream and cry, it is going to take time to rebuild this team. Just because you don’t like it and dont like the guys in charge doesn’t change that. If you cant stand anyone in this organization: you complain about the owner, gm, coaches AND players; why do you continue to watch? You obviously have no reason to.
Go watch some team you actually enjoy instead of bitching about this one all the time.
by ChiefDJ on Dec 2, 2008 6:48 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I just can't wait
I seriously CANNOT wait for this to unfold. I haven’t been more confident in the fact that this team is headed in the wrong direction due to the incompetence of management. Herm, Carl, Clark…it’s just a fact.
BUUUUUT…I said I’d give it another year and that I’d apologize if they even JUST make it to the playoffs. IT won’t happen, this rebuild is a joke.
The improvement is a facade and the QB is a band-aid. Fine, you guys want to rah-rah the Chiefs management….so be it.
How long is it going to take before you admit that you’re wrong? That these people can’t lead? My stipulation is simple…playoffs in 2 years…I’ll admit I was wrong.
Bill Parcell’s: "You are what your record says you are."
by THE_TRUTH on Dec 2, 2008 7:53 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm confident that we are headed in the right direction
In all honesty, it really comes down to if we find a franchise QB, and yes, that is on management.
by I need more Esteban on Dec 2, 2008 10:21 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Fortunately For Them
They seem to have a pretty intriguing candidate with Thigpen. Maybe he won’t be the answer but he might do until the answer comes along.
Unfortunately, even an excellent QB can’t win if he’s not surrounded by the right pieces (e.g. Carson Palmer, Dan Marino) and the Chiefs don’t have enough pieces to win even with a great QB. Mainly on the defensive side of the ball and (I’d argue) on the coaching staff.
The Chiefs should win 5 to 6 games this year and no less than 4 for this season to be considered progress in any way.
by UCrawford on Dec 2, 2008 11:35 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Intriguing is the right word to describe Thigpen
But until he beats a contending team and can string along a few wins (say, 3)….I’ll just view him as a band-aid. IF he does the aforementioned then I’ll seriously accept him as a starter.
I think that’s a safe and fair evaluation.
Bill Parcell’s: "You are what your record says you are."
The Chiefs need to be playoff contenders in 2009 for me to consider improvement. Clark wanted it in 2008...I'll give them an additional year.
by THE_TRUTH on Dec 3, 2008 7:57 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm Not Going To Hold The Standard That High
QBs contribute to wins, they don’t win the game on their own.
If he can complete 60+% of his throws next year and keep his TD/INT ratio about where it is (or improve on it) while still doing his downfield passing, I’ll say we’ve found our answer at QB.
The Chiefs should win 5 to 6 games this year and no less than 4 for this season to be considered progress in any way.
by UCrawford on Dec 3, 2008 9:25 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Well
We want a QOF that’s been discussed ad nausem here…the above is my stipulation. No more one wins or even two wins in a row (which hasn’t happened yet with him).
Give me 3 in a row then an understandable loss to help get into the playoffs. Light’em up and if mgmt. can’t get anyone to help other then Bowe or TG…not my problem. I’m not the decision maker there :)
Bill Parcell’s: "You are what your record says you are."
The Chiefs need to be playoff contenders in 2009 for me to consider improvement. Clark wanted it in 2008...I'll give them an additional year.
by THE_TRUTH on Dec 3, 2008 9:48 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
And You Sound Like A Moron Who Can't Structure An Argument Or Make An Intellectually Honest Argument
Seriously, I’ve never heard someone who hated his own team more.
No, I hate the management of our team…not our team. There’s a difference. You, on the other hand, are perfectly happy with our team being mismanaged because you have no pride in this team and you don’t care about results. Otherwise you’d be questioning why the hell a guy who hadn’t built a Super Bowl caliber team in 19 years is being left in charge of the rebuild…since all that probably portends is that at best we’ll go through all these bad years to watch more mediocre teams. But you don’t, and you call people who do question irrational and that’s why I said it sounds like you’re in a cult.
How do YOU know what Clark is trying to do or what he wants?
I don’t…I don’t care what his intentions are, I care what his plan is achieving. I judge by the performance on the field and it’s been garbage. We got a fluke win over a not-great Denver team and a narrow win over a terrible Oakland team and we’ve been blown out in half of our games (by teams that have no business blowing us out). We were bad last year and we’re worse this year, and Clark Hunt thinks everything is fine because he’s not even expecting this team to be competitive in games. Know how I know that? Because he hasn’t fired anyone in charge for building a team that isn’t even competitve in half its games…which was his stated goal before the season
You’re pissed because you can’t stand Carl Peterson and by extension, Herm Edwards and have decided that no matter what they do its going to be crap.
Yeah, and if only the results on the field didn’t keep backing up my case, you’d definitely make me eat my words with a scathing rebuttal instead of just whining “Herm Hater”.
Make an intellectually honest argument providing objection evidence about how this team has improved on the field by going younger and I’ll reconsider my position on Herm.
The team had to be rebuilt and whether you want to accept that fact or not doesn’t matter one bit because you’re not in the decision making loop. You’re just an impatient fan that likes to bitch.
You can’t make something from nothing and no matter how much you kick and scream and cry, it is going to take time to rebuild this team. Just because you don’t like it and dont like the guys in charge doesn’t change that. If you cant stand anyone in this organization: you complain about the owner, gm, coaches AND players; why do you continue to watch? You obviously have no reason to.
Go watch some team you actually enjoy instead of bitching about this one all the time.
Standard DJ…you can’t come up with a single achievement to point to demonstrating that this team has improved from last year (which is the point of going younger) and you bitch at everyone else to cover your weak argument in the hopes they won’t notice that you’ve never substantiated your position that this team is improving (whenever you’re actually willing to take a position, that is, instead of just playing devil’s advocate to insult other peoples’ arguments so nobody will question you).
Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.
by UCrawford on Dec 2, 2008 8:48 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Okay dude calm down
calling some one a moron just because you disagree with them is unacceptable. And shows that you have a problem with insecurity.
You tell DJ that all he does is bitch at people to cover his weak arguments which is what you constantly do.
I strive to be the person my dog thinks I am.
by KCking on Dec 2, 2008 9:06 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Attack the argument not the person
by Joel Thorman on Dec 2, 2008 9:07 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Problem Is
He doesn’t really make arguments. He just claims we’re getting better then calls everyone irrational for not believing it.
Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.
by UCrawford on Dec 2, 2008 9:16 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
It's easy to point at a house under construction and find holes in the walls
It’s frustrating to listen to someone that is willing to throw the whole team under the bus just because of his grudge against one or two guys in charge.
You have no more proof that the Chiefs will not develop into a quality team under Herm and Carl than I have that they will.
You think you are making brilliant points but the truth is they are so much unsubstantiated fluff that there isn’t much to respond to. You have gone into the realm of wacko conspiracy theories where what you are saying makes sense to you and those who agree with you, but really have no basis in fact. Neither of us have a crystal ball and there are arguments either way in both mens past that it can either be succesful or a disaster and pretending that you do is foolish.
I don’t know that Herm is a coach that can take the Chiefs to the Super Bowl, but I know he’s a damn site better than you give him credit for looking for excuses (that sound ridiculous) to explain away his previous successes.
You are looking for perfection at a time where things are really ugly and cannot be otherwise because of the cards that have been dealt. I honestly believe that your opinions are based solely on your dislike for Carl and Herm and that if it were a guy you liked, you would be more than willing to go through this and be patient with the process. If not and you want to flip managment every two years until they are a Super Bowl contender, you will never be happy ever because thats the biggest recipe for failure ever.
by ChiefDJ on Dec 2, 2008 6:27 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
And It's Easy To Pretend Your Argument Is Correct When You Ignore All Facts That Dispute It
It’s frustrating to listen to someone that is willing to throw the whole team under the bus just because of his grudge against one or two guys in charge.
The team is 2-10. They were 4-12 last year. I suppose I should be arguing how Herm should be coach of the year for their performance.
I’ve never thrown the whole team under the bus…I’ve blamed the people I hold responsible, the ones who assembled and run this team. That’s Herm and Carl (as well as some of the position coaches whose units are dramatically underachieving). You don’t do that because you don’t ever hold anyone responsible for anything. Also because you’re kind of a chickenshit when it comes to taking a position that anyone can ding you on…whenever someone hits you with an argument you can’t rebut you just slip into devil’s advocate mode without telling them and insult their positions. Personally it wouldn’t bother me if you actually made arguments and backed them with proof even if those arguments were wrong…I’d even respect it if you could concede points. But you don’t…you just live in denial and pretend that it’s the rest of the world that’s crazy when your arguments are undermined by what actually happens on the field. That’s largely why I’ve found your arguments so irritating lately…because they’re really more trolling than arguments.
You have no more proof that the Chiefs will not develop into a quality team under Herm and Carl than I have that they will.
You’re right…I don’t. I just believe it thoroughly, which is why I said I’d be happy to put money down that the Chiefs will never be a playoff team with Herm and Carl in charge. I accept the possibility it could be wrong, but I also tout the high probability that I’m not. I also state specific goals for what I expect from this team to be classified as successful. What specific goals do you think they should achieve? I don’t recall you ever stating any.
I don’t know that Herm is a coach that can take the Chiefs to the Super Bowl, but I know he’s a damn site better than you give him credit for looking for excuses (that sound ridiculous) to explain away his previous successes.
What successes? He’s never won his division, he’s never been to a Super Bowl, he’s got a losing record at both of his coaching jobs and his team is currently 2-10. Making up excuses would be what people who claim he’s a good coach are doing.
You are looking for perfection at a time where things are really ugly and cannot be otherwise because of the cards that have been dealt.
My expectations are in my signature block, and last I checked winning 6 games out of 16 wasn’t close to perfection. Things are ugly right now because Herm’s doing a crappy job. And Herm and Carl dealt their own cards…they’re not victims of fate, they’re victims of their own incompetence.
I honestly believe that your opinions are based solely on your dislike for Carl and Herm and that if it were a guy you liked
That’s because you can’t dispute any of my arguments with any objective evidence or accomplishments on Herm’s or Carl’s part so it’s more comforting to you to pretend that my arguments are invalid by labelling me a Herm Hater or Carl Hater, instead of being honest and admitting that at this point any improvement in this team is more wishful thinking than anything else. And I’d actually respect it if you admitted that your position was wishful thinking and that you’re merely hoping this team gets better.
If not and you want to flip managment every two years until they are a Super Bowl contender, you will never be happy ever because thats the biggest recipe for failure ever.
I’ve never taken that position, I’ve clearly explained my position on these threads about what I think are reasonable expectations from head coaches and GMs before (and how long they should be retained), and I’m pretty certain you’ve read them before.
The Chiefs should win 5 to 6 games this year and no less than 4 for this season to be considered progress in any way.
by UCrawford on Dec 2, 2008 7:29 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
This is the most important thing to remember
You have no more proof that the Chiefs will not develop into a quality team under Herm and Carl than I have that they will.
by PVChiefsfan on Dec 3, 2008 7:48 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Oh thats something to remember
…then again someone once said “History will repeat itself, if we fail to learn from it”
I wonder what mgmt. has learned in coaching and building the Chiefs—-historically.
’nuff said
Bill Parcell’s: "You are what your record says you are."
The Chiefs need to be playoff contenders in 2009 for me to consider improvement. Clark wanted it in 2008...I'll give them an additional year.
by THE_TRUTH on Dec 3, 2008 7:59 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
That's Why It's Called A Prediction
The Chiefs should win 5 to 6 games this year and no less than 4 for this season to be considered progress in any way.
by UCrawford on Dec 3, 2008 9:27 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
You can't always go on what Mort says.
He adds a lot of speculation to what he reports. I seriously doubt he knows anymore than anyone else reporting on the situation in KC.
Indecision is the key to flexibility
by cmpotter on Dec 2, 2008 12:56 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
He Has Broken A Couple Of Stories That Have Turned Out To Be Duds
He breaks a lot that turn out to be true as well, but your point is taken.
Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.
by UCrawford on Dec 2, 2008 12:57 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Tom Cable cinched
it for him with a foolish play, 4th and ten fake with a 260 pound kicker. If they had kicked the field goal, we would be talking about 1-11.
by Eric Allen on Dec 2, 2008 9:37 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I disagree that the entire game resulted from the one call
The game must be looke at from the whole game. You are correct that this one call changed the course of the game, but in the end, we had more points due to the play of the whole team throughout the entire game. We held them to 13 and they held us to 20, but we won.
We could say the exact same thing and say we would be talking about 5-7, if you factor one or two individual plays in the close games we lost. I don’t mind winning by their mistakes, as long as we win.
by TXChiefan on Dec 3, 2008 10:59 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Glad to hear it
I am happy to see this. Maybe all the Herm haters can take a break for a while. Herm has flaws, but he is a good motivater and teacher, and that is what a young team undergoing an ambitious rebuilding project needs. I think there will be some changes at defensive coordinator and special teams coach, but I think herm will be her next year. Of course we went backwards, we are playing a bunch of kids. At the start of the year I was onboard with rebuilding and expected to win aropund 4 games. What I wanted to see was continued improvement throughout the year. I think we are there. Don’t be suprised when we win a couple more games before the end of the year. We are only 4-5 players from being a good team and I think they will address these in free agency and the early rounds of the draft.
Herm is here to stay and I for one am happy.
by saskwatch on Dec 1, 2008 8:15 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
I've heard this before
Herm has flaws, but he is a good motivater and teacher, and that is what a young team undergoing an ambitious rebuilding project needs.
But the only draft class we can even begin to evaluate (2006) looks as if he’s failed horribly in teaching. I’ll judge him by the results on the field.
by Joel Thorman on Dec 1, 2008 8:17 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
2007 Is Already Looking Worse Than 2006
In 2005 and 2006 at least we got two starters out of each class. The only player out of the 2007 draft class who’s looking like a starter is Dwayne Bowe. Turk McBride hasn’t demonstrated he’s anything more than a reserve at best (and not a great one), Tank Tyler’s been a non-factor. Kolby Smith is a backup running back who appears to have problems staying healthy.
Three starters in two years and a bunch of guys who are reserves on a terrible team. That’s a crap draft record. So much for Herm’s rep as a “teacher”.
Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.
by UCrawford on Dec 1, 2008 10:44 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I am reaching my limit
I’ve followed this team since the early 70’s without one damn Super Bowl appearance in all that time, and stuff like this is just killing my hopes of EVER seeing one.
If the owner doesn’t care and doesn’t demand excellence from the organization, then why the hell should I?
If we luck out, in only 2 more years Herm will lead us to a 9-7 season and first round playoff loss, thereby earning a multi-year contract extension.
Followed by a few rebuilding seasons.
by Offense of the 70s on Dec 1, 2008 8:26 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
The irony is
That what we are seeing now is what is necessary to CHANGE the fact we have gone decades without a Super Bowl.
They aren’t doing the Carl Peterson bandaid to get the team to 9-7 and a 1st round playoff loss method that they have been doing just to keep fans paying for season tickets. They had to tear the whole thing down and are building it up from scratch to be a team capable of winning a championship. The price you pay to do that is you’re going to have a couple bad years.
Two or three years down the road if we’re in the Super Bowl, nobody will give a crap about back to back bad seasons. It will all be worth it.
by ChiefDJ on Dec 1, 2008 11:18 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Except Of Course
For the fact that nothing’s really changed because the same guy who’s been running the team for the last 19 years is still running the team.
Honestly, DJ, I don’t know if you’re trolling or if you’re just completely clueless. You may think that somehow Carl and Herm have happened on some magic formula that’s suddenly transformed them from guys who haven’t come close to appearing in (much less winning) a Super Bowl in a combined 26 years, but anyone who’s paid any attention at all to the history of the NFL will pretty quickly realize that people with that track record of failure have never figured out how to win the big game and never really will. And none of the realists are buying that it’s happening now…so if you’re trying to win us over with the “you’ve just got to believe argument”, you can save your energy. I quit believing in magic when I was four.
Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.
by UCrawford on Dec 2, 2008 12:11 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
"Honestly, DJ, I don’t know if you’re trolling or if you’re just completely clueless."
that is the fallacy of false dilemma….=)
by PVChiefsfan on Dec 2, 2008 7:54 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
At least he's not wearing rose colored glasses and drinking kool-aid
Being led by those that have never proven they can lead….who’s clueless? What’ll change? 19 years of bad decisions and then EUREKA…oops, Carl figured it out? lol…right
Bill Parcell’s: "You are what your record says you are."
by THE_TRUTH on Dec 2, 2008 7:56 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
"At least he's not wearing rose colored glasses and drinking kool-aid"
ad hominem
by PVChiefsfan on Dec 2, 2008 7:58 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
True
But you can only listen to DJ chant make his unsubstantiated “We’re getting better, we’re getting better” mantra with his “Herm Hater, Herm Hater” followup for so long before you kind of get sick of him and feel like prodding him into actually backing up his comments with something.
So far we’re still waiting for DJ to show us any proof that this team’s on the right track.
Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.
by UCrawford on Dec 2, 2008 8:53 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I told you at the beginning of the year
If this team is a perennial playoff contender in another two years, you will have your proof the team is on the right track.
Can you prove that in two years it won’t be? If not, you are not making any better argument than I am.
by ChiefDJ on Dec 2, 2008 6:30 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
And What Do You Expect To Happen For Those Next Two Years?
What are your benchmarks for determining if Herm and Carl are making progress towards those goals?
The Chiefs should win 5 to 6 games this year and no less than 4 for this season to be considered progress in any way.
by UCrawford on Dec 2, 2008 7:31 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
“Honestly, DJ, I don’t know if you’re trolling or if you’re just completely clueless.”
ad hominem
Pot calling the kettle black. What are your expectations of management to prove their effectiveness? Timeline please. I’ve stated mine ad nauseum.
Bill Parcell’s: "You are what your record says you are."
by THE_TRUTH on Dec 2, 2008 9:02 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Huh?
1) you misquoted me…the ‘ad hominem’ was in response to your phrase
At least he’s not wearing rose colored glasses and drinking kool-aid
2) I didn’t attack you, so I’m not sure where you get “Pot calling the kettle black”
by PVChiefsfan on Dec 2, 2008 9:21 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Actually, That Was My Phrase
Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.
by UCrawford on Dec 2, 2008 9:27 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I Forget :)
The “Honestly DJ” comment was mine. The thread’s become so convoluted we’re attributing arguments to the wrong people. :)
The Chiefs should win 5 to 6 games this year and no less than 4 for this season to be considered progress in any way.
by UCrawford on Dec 2, 2008 10:34 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
True
that is the fallacy of false dilemma
Unfortunately, there really wasn’t any meat to his argument to discredit. :)
Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.
by UCrawford on Dec 2, 2008 8:50 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
What changes?
The decision makers are the same. They will continue to make the same kind of decisions they have always made. That’s not a change.
by Offense of the 70s on Dec 2, 2008 7:02 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Jobs that pay millions of dollars
shouldn’t be qualified by hopes and good intentions, rather by results. Nice Guy Herm hasn’t earned to continue to be our Head Coach. Unless there is a claus in his contract that says “no wins necessary” then we should move on. The only way I would keep him is if he wins out, and that is not completely impossible. The Rebuilding that we undertook was a good thing. Some of the decisions made during it were bad ones, such as not signing more experienced “short term” free agents to keep us somewhat competitive and keep us growing. We definitely have a feel like an expansion team, and it didn’t have to be that way. Look at what Miami has done in one year, and you can see the difference. They had a good draft (like us), but they signed quite a few low level free agents, and then lucked out by signing Pennington and his experienced QB play has been the difference. I think I would have been more patient with Herm if we had shown more progressive improvement, but we have been an absolute crap shoot week in and week out. There is no telling if Jekyll or Hyde we show up, and that has to be contributed to the coaching.
by TheQ on Dec 1, 2008 8:42 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
We have won 15 games
in three years, and his job is secure, that is jacked up.
by Eric Allen on Dec 1, 2008 8:57 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
That's not good
That’s something that has followed Herm he doesn’t win games. 15 games in three years… Wow and the pats had 16 in 1 strange…
by NakedDave on Dec 1, 2008 9:29 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
The Pats didn't go 16-0 in one season
The Patriots were a bad team for a LONG time before they became a good one.
by ChiefDJ on Dec 1, 2008 11:19 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
And They Improved Once They Fired The People Who Ran The Team Into The Ground
See how that works?
The Chiefs have been a bad team for a long time. They’ll be a good team when Clark Hunt fires Carl Peterson and hires a real GM to run this team. Until then this “rebuild” is just smoke and mirrors set up to hide the fact that the team is bottoming out and is probably going to stay bottomed out as long as Carl and Herm are running it.
Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.
by UCrawford on Dec 2, 2008 12:22 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I watched Mort say that, as well. He is being fed.
Herm is not safe. Herm did not cinch his job.
Does anyone here seriously believe a week after the worst loss in Chiefs’ history, that Herm is safe because he beat the 3-7 Raiders?
They suck as badly as we do. If anyone thinks this was some triumphant victory proving Herm’s qualifications (Mort), they are deranged…..unless, of course, Clark is, too.
by DThomasReigns on Dec 1, 2008 10:42 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
God I Hope So
Otherwise I’m seriously done with this team. 20 years of futility is enough…I’m sure as hell not sticking with them if they think Herm’s 6 wins in two years is enough to merit two more years of job security.
Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.
by UCrawford on Dec 1, 2008 10:46 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Exactly. We have the same record as the Lions. Who can dispute that? Or defend that? And WE HAD TO BEAT THE RAIDERS JUST TO GET TO THAT LEVEL.
by DThomasReigns on Dec 1, 2008 10:49 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
In A Pathetic Game, No Less
Against a Raiders team run by a coach even more inept than Herm. If Lane Kiffin had been running that team, we’d have lost.
Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.
by UCrawford on Dec 1, 2008 10:50 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Great point
Didn’t even think about that factor. Bittersweet.
by KansasCityShuffle on Dec 1, 2008 11:50 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Herms not safe because he beat the Raiders
Herms job has NEVER been in danger. I keep telling you guys, and you think I’m just a homer.
Herm was commissioned by Clark to tear the team apart last off season with the knowledge that it would be ugly this year with the goal of building for the future.
by ChiefDJ on Dec 1, 2008 11:21 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
We Don't Think You're A Homer Because You Don't Believe Herm Will Get Fired
We think you’re a homer because you’re happy about the idea that Herm won’t get fired because you, for some reason, think he’s a good coach and you’ve never provided us sufficient evidence to make us think you’ve got any good reason for believing that.
Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.
by UCrawford on Dec 2, 2008 12:24 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
And Homer's Probably The Wrong Word
Since espousing unconditional support for Herm Edwards is not the same as supporting the team. Support for a coach should always be conditional based on the results he produces for the team…and Herm hasn’t produced a lot of good results for this team, in either wins or in developing his young players as he should.
Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.
by UCrawford on Dec 2, 2008 12:56 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
If anyone has a subscription to Warpaint Illustrated, they know that Mort may be completely wrong.
by DThomasReigns on Dec 1, 2008 10:50 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
I Don't Have One
If you’ve got info, by all means please post it.
Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.
by UCrawford on Dec 1, 2008 10:52 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I would love to, pretty compelling scenario, but it is the property of the site and I don't want AP to get into trouble.
by DThomasReigns on Dec 1, 2008 10:53 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Fair Enough
Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.
by UCrawford on Dec 2, 2008 12:58 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
My experiences with WPI
Is that they don’t know jack most of the time.
They know people around the Chiefs organization, they aren’t sitting in Clarks office.
by ChiefDJ on Dec 1, 2008 11:22 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
My experience with stuff like that
Is if it was actually legitimate news then they’d post it and get it out to as many people as possible with their author/site address attached to it. Does no good to have breaking news if there’s no one there to read it.
by Joel Thorman on Dec 2, 2008 8:29 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I Think That's Accurate
ESPN does it the same way with their Insider stuff. Real breaking news goes on the free site, speculation and analysis get paid for.
Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.
by UCrawford on Dec 2, 2008 9:07 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Oh...Mort's prettttttttttty accurate...lol
….I think Herm will do fine, he is cut from the Dungy mold…and that takes a little time, especially when the drafting has been so God-awful for years…let’s consider that people…Hell, maybe by then Dungy will be ready to come out of retirement and bail Herm out…
I think the Hunt’s love winning…it is pretty obvious to me really…
by woodman212 on Dec 2, 2008 12:09 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Herm
Well, t seems to me that there are just two points of view on the same thing.
Herm is safe because Clark Hunt let’s Carl Peterson call the shots.
Carl feels the need to stand by his decision and keep Herm around, come what may.
Now, if you’re a person who thinks Herm is “the guy” to rebuild and win, this is good news.
If you think Herm is not “the guy” to do it, then it is bad news.
while I personally fall in to the “bad news” camp, I have a hard time finding a good reason to bail out on my team.
I have been a Chiefs fan for about 20 years now. I don’t see that changing.
I can like some things that come about ( Tyler Thigpen is a pleasant surprise ) and I can not like things as they come about (hiring a guy that couldn’t coach his way out of a wet paper bag ) is something I just dread.
As a fan, I will let them know when I like something with the team and I will let them know when I don’t.
The reason we get so excited and so upset is because we allow ourselves to care so much about the team to begin with and that’s what makes us fans. We decided to care about this particular team ( “care” defined as we actually give a shit what goes on with the team )
There is personal and emotional investment on our part. That’s why we pay for overpriced tickets and shirts, etc… to show our support for our team, we care.
At this point, I don’t care what happens to Herm as long he’s NOT coaching at KC.
He is not a good fit for the Chiefs. Never was, never will be.
Big Bear
by bigbearomaha on Dec 2, 2008 8:40 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
The problem is
…that I have yet to hear from the mangement supporters saying what their expectations are for them to consider Herm “a bust” or “a savior”. Give me a timeline….an expectation…something. Tell me what it’ll take for you to accept or change your stance/support?
Is 8-8 next year considered an improvement and reason to keep Herm? How about a playoff in 2 years? A superbowl in 3 years?
Do we give him a 10 year contract(like Gretz suggested)?
How long do we wait to become a Giants, Colts, Pitt., Pat. before we say this management is incompetent?
Bill Parcell’s: "You are what your record says you are."
by THE_TRUTH on Dec 2, 2008 8:54 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I just wanna know
What has Herm done since he was here that he deserves the benefit of the doubt? The only stat that matters is win, losses, we have won 15 games in THREE years.
by Eric Allen on Dec 2, 2008 9:11 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Parcell's doesn't know what he's talking about ;-)
Bill Parcell’s: "You are what your record says you are."
by THE_TRUTH on Dec 2, 2008 9:17 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Looks like McEnroe vs Conners again
“Hey are they serving refreshments at this match?”
"But what do I know, I’m like an empty room with a large ECHO"
by Lanier63 on Dec 2, 2008 11:14 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Yeah $8 beers and a half cup of peanuts for $4...welcome to Arrowhead
Bill Parcell’s: "You are what your record says you are."
The Chiefs need to be playoff contenders in 2009 for me to consider improvement. Clark wanted it in 2008...I'll give them an additional year.
by THE_TRUTH on Dec 2, 2008 11:30 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
4 bucks? That would be about 25 cents a peanut, kinda steep
“Welcome to Arrowhead home of the 25 cent peanut!” I hope when the team becomes competitive, they don’t raise the price of the peanuts anymore.
"But what do I know, I’m like an empty room with a large ECHO"
by Lanier63 on Dec 2, 2008 1:12 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
"It is what it is"
Nobody is forcign you to pay…‘course you can’t bring any food into the stadium either. Funny thing was that Hunt wouldn’t allow people to get water at WOF without paying for the cup about 15 years ago. They changed that when the city came down on them…it’s illegal for a business to not give water to someone asking for it.
Cheap bastards
Bill Parcell’s: "You are what your record says you are."
The Chiefs need to be playoff contenders in 2009 for me to consider improvement. Clark wanted it in 2008...I'll give them an additional year.
by THE_TRUTH on Dec 2, 2008 2:00 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I actually got to go to WOF back in the 70's
"But what do I know, I’m like an empty room with a large ECHO"
by Lanier63 on Dec 2, 2008 2:10 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
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