On the Jared Allen trade and the players the Chiefs acquired because of it: "I’ve said to Clark H...

On the Jared Allen trade and the players the Chiefs acquired because of it:

"I’ve said to Clark Hunt that 10 years from now, this will be the trade that made it all happen."

Comments

TEN YEARS!!!!!!

Blame my wife!

by sir eccles on Nov 26, 2008 4:52 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

By That Point

Maybe Gunther and Carl will have built another Chiefs defense that will almost get us a playoff win. :)

Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.

by UCrawford on Nov 26, 2008 4:57 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

That seems a little toooo long!

10 years is a generation in the NFL. I did think it was cool that he alluded to the fact that he couldn’t retire until he took care of some payback against the Bills! You can absolutely not like it when someone hangs 54 points on your defense.

by TheQ on Nov 26, 2008 5:08 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Most Telling Comment In That Story

Cunningham said that he’s so dialed in to what he’s doing of late that one defensive assistant coach, Mike Ketchum, has to order his dinner every night. Another, David Gibbs, has to remind him to eat it. Cunningham’s wife Rene makes a nightly call to Gibbs to see whether Cunningham has indeed eaten it.

Wow…that much focus and time spent and he’s still running the worst defense and linebacking corps in the NFL? Makes you wonder what the other 31 defensive coordinators are doing differently if they’re not working as hard as Gun and are still putting a better product on the field.

Aside from not trying to do two full-time jobs at once and failing at both because they’re not a bunch of verbally abusive micromanagers who can’t apparently work effectively with their players or position coaches.

Usually when people are working that hard at their job and failing miserably it means that they’re either not very good at their job or they’re trying to do everyone else’s job because they aren’t capable of working with or developing trust in other people. It’s called a bunker mentality.

Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.

by UCrawford on Nov 26, 2008 5:05 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

He didn't mean we wouldn't be good for ten years

ten years, i assume, will be looking back on the “dynasty” that they plan to create now.

by Vince D on Nov 26, 2008 5:41 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Everyone knows by now

that the cover 2 is not his defense. He has had success until late with his defenses, but his style is a blitzing man to man, not a cover 2 that requires your 4 linemen to effectively put pressure on the quarterback, which right now we don’t have the personnel to run so i don’t understand why we are but thats another story. I don’t see how the failure of our defense can be put on him with this being said, also with the injury situation. If he would get uncuffed like chan gailey did, i guarantee our defense would be substantially better.

by InternetCreditOffers.com on Nov 26, 2008 8:24 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

He Had Successful Defenses 10 Years Ago

Since he stopped working for Marty Schottenheimer he had four years where he was in charge of a defense without Herm Edwards around. None of them were particularly good. In fact his two best years as a defensive coordinator without Marty Schottenheimer looking over his shoulder came under Herm Edwards’ coaching regime (2006 and 2007). Beyond that his defenses have pretty much sucked. And it’s sucking now that Herm’s let him dig in like a tick and micromanage his linebackers…just like Gunther wanted.

There’s no evidence at all that Gunther Cunningham would be a dominant defensive coordinator if Herm Edwards let him do what he want and plenty of evidence that he’d be really crap at it.

Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.

by UCrawford on Nov 26, 2008 9:09 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Actually

You should probably check the last time Gunther was a Defensive Coordinator/LB Coach was 1997.

He also did a pretty good job with Titans linebacking corp. during the KC hiatus starting Keith Bullock.

Page, Pollard, & Hali have been here 3 years

Then you go DJ with 4 to Edwards 13 years ago, not a draft pick remaining between them.

Have you ever considered it takes more than a year to develop a team? After Robinson they dropped to 29 and then bounced up to 16 in 2005 with no one looking “over his shoulder.”

As Head Coach they were 13th & 19th (11th &17th against the run, but we were 18th with Marty “looking over his shoulder” in 1998), the year after 23rd, after that 28th, 19th (also respectively without Gun we were 27th, 24th, & 30th against the run respectively), Gun’s 1st year back 29th (12th against the run, dead last against the pass), now we’re at 2005 16th (6th in the league against the run), Herm and the Tampa 2 shows up we’re 12th (18th against the run), last season 14th (28 against the run)

Interesting but less relevant Marty sans Gun against the run: 12th, 12th, 18th, 15th, 9th, & 16th

So Marty Plus Gun against the Run: 3rd, 13th, 7th (last time Gun was DC & LBC), & 18th
Gun as HC against the run: 13th, &19th
Without Gun against the run: 27th, 24th, & 30th
Gun on his lonesome (vermeil) against the run: 12th, 6th
Gun with Herm and the Tampa 2: 18th, 24th, & Currently 31st

That’s the best evidence we’ve seen for why we’re better with Gunther than without him, and why maybe, just maybe it’s the stupid Cover 2

On his own (without Marty or Herm) Gun’s teams are about 12th in stopping the run, including that 2000 season where he disasterously tried to compensate his team’s non-production on offense.

Without Gunther Cunningham the Chiefs average 27th in the league against the run.

Oddly the Jets from 2001-2005 against the run were: 28th, 18th, 28th, 5th, 29th

Solely as offensive coordinator without Herm (discounting your Marty behind the curtain theory) they rank about 9th against the run (oddly it’s about the same with as without Marty too).

Now we all know you’re going to find a way to crap all over this research UC…

And yes, our original point was that these things can’t be measured year to year or on stats alone…

But remember our point that Herm dismantling Gun’s traditional run stopping defense for the softer coverage Tampa 2 might be more to blame than Gunther himself? And then your response was to throw around Dr. Z’s 71% 1st day drafts when phantom rebuilding and most acquisitions except for receivers and fullbacks and backup QB and special teams on leap years equals Gunther is a fake dinosaur marty puppet man?

Well, …, blow it your book bag. We win.

blah blah one sided defense blah blah carry over blah blah doesn’t mean they aren’t both incompetent blah blah blah.

All the same a 31st rank defense should probably put any DC in trouble if not fired.

There, agree your face off with that one, see if we care, the PARADE is done with this thread and scratching it up in the W column.

by Official Arrowhead Pride Parade on Nov 27, 2008 5:42 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Oh yeah, and b.t. dubs.

The Titans against the run with Gun as LB coach were 5th, 2nd, & 1st

by Official Arrowhead Pride Parade on Nov 27, 2008 5:52 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

"I'll see your $100 and go all in!"

"But what do I know, I’m like an empty room with a large ECHO"

by Lanier63 on Nov 27, 2008 8:44 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

You have to give it to a guy who reasearches till 5:42am

or is up that early :)

"But what do I know, I’m like an empty room with a large ECHO"

by Lanier63 on Nov 27, 2008 8:45 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Just now saw the reply

to my thread, and although i would have had a rebuttal to uc’s unstatistically backed thread, it would not have been near as detailed as yours was, thanks OAPP!

by InternetCreditOffers.com on Nov 27, 2008 9:08 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Your Argument Is Missing Some Important Pieces Of Data

That sixth ranked run defense Gun put up with Vermeil in 2005 (although it was actually 7th in yardage, per ESPN)? It came with the 30th ranked pass defense and the 28th ranked overall defense. Gunther’s run defense looked impressive in the yardage totals only because teams didn’t have to run against the Chiefs because the pass defense was so horrible. Run and pass defense both have to be somewhat decent to make a case that either is great. Good defensive coordinators simply don’t make defenses that are that bad overall.

Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.

by UCrawford on Nov 27, 2008 9:27 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Correction

25th ranked overall defense in 2005, not 28th.

Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.

by UCrawford on Nov 27, 2008 9:34 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I think Carl and the boys

have another good 10 years left in em’. I’m gonna go mark my calendar for 2018 and prepare for some great football..

by KansasCityShuffle on Nov 26, 2008 9:55 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Re: Allen trade

If they knew they were more than likely going be moving Allen in the offseason, why didn’t they cough up more dough for Wilkerson with all that they saved? I know they had the illusion Hali was going to be a dominant RE but if all else for depth and/or a contingency plan? It’s not like he was old. It’s not like they didn’t want him. It was just probably another cost cutting move that just makes them look more cheap than thrifty. With their track record for treating vets and manuevers like this I don’t know why anyone would want to play here

by KansasCityShuffle on Nov 26, 2008 10:31 PM CST reply actions 0 recs