I listen to this press conference with Herm

by sm7600 on Nov 25, 2008 2:25 PM CST Comment 53 comments

and I dispair. I really don't see any way this team is even competent in before 2011.

We "knew" Dorsey was going to struggle? Really? Most people would like production out of the number 5 pick, and pretty quickly at that.

Just because you blitz, doesn't mean you won't get blocked? Well, if we are blitzing that is certainly the case. When we get blitzed, it isn't.

And of course, the real encouragement...THESE GUYS ARE GOING TO BE TOGETHER FOR 4 OR 5 YEARS

yee hah

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of Arrowhead Pride's writers or editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of Arrowhead Pride writers or editors.

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All DT struggle

They all struggle even the greats. Sapp, Haynesworth. I actually believe we are only a few players from being good. We desperately need a good MLB, and a good pass rushing DE. We need 2 O-lineman. These guys are kids, and it shows, but the do have a lot of talent. I do think we will be good, and personally think this rebuild will be effective. I guess we will see.

by saskwatch on Nov 25, 2008 2:42 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

I have always believed that faith belongs in the home

and the church….but not as a fan. I prefer cold hard results.

I gotta be honest…I’m not seeing all that much from Dorsey, or anyone who’s not a corner.

by sm7600 on Nov 25, 2008 3:01 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Don't Give Up On Dorsey This Soon

Even Sapp wasn’t Sapp his rookie year.

The thing that worries me more is the defensive coordinator’s inability to work with the players he’s being given. Kawika Mitchell has a solid season, Gunther thinks we can do better, BAM, he’s let go only to do well at his next two stops. Napoleon Harris (not a great LB, but serviceable) comes in, leads the team in tackles, he’s gone after one season and playing a serviceable LB for Minnesota. DeMorrio Williams gets signed to a big contract this offseason, gets a few starts, now Gunther’s decided that he’s not the answer either after less than a full season so he’s not the full-time starter.

Either the Chiefs are signing absolutely crap players on defense, the defensive coordinator is simply too incompetent to figure out to use the players he’s given, or it’s a mixture of both. But this isn’t a matter of just a little bad luck with signing players.

Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.

by UCrawford on Nov 25, 2008 3:02 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

In my opinion you can't get this bad

without being deficient pretty much everywhere

by sm7600 on Nov 25, 2008 3:16 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Agreed

But just because you’ve got a horrible team doesn’t automatically mean that every player on that team is doing a bad job. Dorsey’s doing okay on the line. Not dominant, but okay. And okay is pretty good for a rookie.

Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.

by UCrawford on Nov 25, 2008 3:24 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

MItchell is average and his stats prove it.

I think people are putting way to much stock in to him because our. Harris is a good not great middle linebacker who could have really helped this team. Same with Williams if he is allowed to play. I don’t think it is Gunthers call on the players he is able to use. We have completely sold out for the youth movement, and not allowed many good veterans to be here to help.

Indecision is the key to flexibility

by cmpotter on Nov 25, 2008 4:24 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

That first sentence was to end with MLB play has been terrible this year.

Indecision is the key to flexibility

by cmpotter on Nov 25, 2008 4:25 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Williams

You can’t make the argument he’s being squeezed out for younger players because he was signed this offseason. He was signed to be that younger player.

Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.

by UCrawford on Nov 25, 2008 4:28 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I think Mitchell is the most underrated linebacker in the league.

He may have average stats, but he makes plays. Big plays that can turn games around.

by Shawn on Nov 25, 2008 6:04 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

He has 5 ff 5 int and 1 td. Where are all these big plays?

He made a big play last year to help the Giants win a game. I really don’t see how he is underrated. Underrated might be Scott Fujita.

Indecision is the key to flexibility

by cmpotter on Nov 25, 2008 7:13 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

1 of those ff's and 2 of those int's came in late moments in tight games!

This is exaclty the reason he is underrated, people don’t recognize that he makes plays when the defense needs him to make big plays. Yeah he doens’t make a ton of them, but those numbers aren’t too shabby either.

by Shawn on Nov 26, 2008 12:50 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I am not saying he is bad. He is getting a lot of credit that is undeserved.

Last year he played on a defense that had a lot of good players. This year he is on a good defense and not making those same plays. He has had one good year and that was with the Giants who were loaded on defense.

In KC he made a lot of tackles but he was also out of position a lot and over ran a lot of run plays. He did the same types of things last week against the Chiefs.

Indecision is the key to flexibility

by cmpotter on Nov 26, 2008 2:03 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

And let's nbe fair

and while we’re mentioning our own Linebackers’ difficulties at tackling to point out the three (that I can remember) missed tackles by Mitchell (though only one was because he was trying to strip the ball).

by PVChiefsfan on Nov 26, 2008 2:06 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

edit - "be"

by PVChiefsfan on Nov 26, 2008 2:06 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

+1

Indecision is the key to flexibility

by cmpotter on Nov 26, 2008 2:12 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

IMO

Kawika Mitchell IS underrated! How much more of a better team would we be Defensively if we had K. Mitch at MLB. Granted he wasnt the fastest Linebacker, but the guy CAN tackle. He made play after play for the Giants (Even cracking Mr. Marion “The Barbarian”) You don’t start for a Super Bowl team if you suck (unless youre on a Herm Edwards team) Now if we had Mitchell, D.J. and Donnie/DeMorrio, I think we’d be a lot better concerning our LB corps.

by ROC 27 on Nov 26, 2008 12:15 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

No one is saying he sucked.

True he is better than what we have at MLB. However statistically speaking Maslowski was a better MLB and hardly anyone wanted him. Unfortunate his career ended due to injury.

His stats this year with him on a far better defense aren’t much better than DJ. They both are OLB. His “big” plays were made as a weak side linebacker not as a middle linebacker. Last year he had 76 tackles 2FF and int. Those are stats of and average linebacker. People are all over DJ and he had better stats last year and this year they are similar. He had 105 and 104 tackles two years in a row at MLB. Not great for your MLB but good.

Indecision is the key to flexibility

by cmpotter on Nov 26, 2008 2:22 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Ellis had a solid game last night

Against a good GB o-line. Not giving up on him, but maybe we got the wrong guy again.

by Eric Allen on Nov 25, 2008 6:07 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

That was to UC.

by Eric Allen on Nov 25, 2008 6:07 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I'm Still Happy With Dorsey

But I wouldn’t have minded Ellis either. That’s why I liked the pick…it was so high that even Carl couldn’t screw it up.

And it’ll pay off even better once the Chiefs fire Carl and hire a GM who can assemble a real coaching staff (although I like Gailey).

Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.

by UCrawford on Nov 25, 2008 6:38 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I should have made a new paragraph

I was just stating in general due to our lack of veteran players. I don’t know why Williams isn’t playing. He seems to do well for what we put on the field.

I think the defense really lacks any kind of chemistry due to the injury epidemic.

Indecision is the key to flexibility

by cmpotter on Nov 25, 2008 4:38 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

they weren't all that good before the injuries either

in fact I can make an argument that they played a little better AFTER the injuries

by sm7600 on Nov 25, 2008 4:42 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Not really. The offense started to move the ball and score.

The defense isn’t stuck on the field all day.

Indecision is the key to flexibility

by cmpotter on Nov 25, 2008 5:02 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

really?

then the team just needs the offense to hold onto the ball for 29:30 per half

I guess those turnovers don’t matter. Or the improvement on run defense….

by sm7600 on Nov 25, 2008 5:17 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Improvement of run defense?

When did that happen. DIdn’t see it last week. I really don’t see where the improvement is. We are averaging 165 yds a game on the ground 240 in the air 402 total………looking looking looking…….nope, still don’t see it.

Indecision is the key to flexibility

by cmpotter on Nov 25, 2008 5:31 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

oh yeah and we give up nearly 30 points a game.

Indecision is the key to flexibility

by cmpotter on Nov 25, 2008 5:32 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

ok, let's compare the season stats

versus the four game stretch

get back to me ace

by sm7600 on Nov 25, 2008 8:53 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Ace messaging back

Which four game stretch do you speak of. Would that be during the stretch that we were scoring points and not getting a lot of three and outs. If so that is great except for the fact that we gave up a shit load of points. If you are referring to the stretch with Thigpen, then you have to look at the fact the offense was playing better and averaging 22.5 point a game. The defense did great blowing that 21 point lead against the Bucs. Awesome getting torched by Drew Brees. We actually had our best defensive games in week 1 and 4. In the last five games we have given up 138 points. Not much of an improvement. After the last couple of weeks, youi can’t make a legit argument we have improved on defense.

Indecision is the key to flexibility

by cmpotter on Nov 26, 2008 9:06 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

4 game stretch...Jets, Tampa, SD & NO

27 ppg

the other 7 games…31 ppg.

4 ppg seems like a difference to me.

by sm7600 on Nov 26, 2008 10:42 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

So you leave out the last game

To say we have improved you have to consider the most recent games. You can’t say we improved at a certain point if we play as badly as we have the last two weeks. We are averaging on the year giving up 29.5 points a game. So we improved 1.5 points.

In the seven game stretch you describe, we scored over twenty points one time. In your four game stretch twenty or better in three of the four games. That is the difference. The defense wasn’t on the field the whole game. We haven’t improved sorry.

Indecision is the key to flexibility

by cmpotter on Nov 26, 2008 11:01 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

CMPotter's Right...The Defense Hasn't Improved One Iota

You have to look at the season as a whole and take the individual games as part of that. The season doesn’t consist of “the four games that support my argument” and “the other games”.

And sm7600 didn’t leave out a game, but he did lump it in with all the early season games, which undermines the credibility of the argument because the worst defensive game of the season came after the four game stretch he’s touting. Did we show some improvement over that four game stretch? Yes…offensively we did because we installed a new offense. Defensively no, the team didn’t improve at all…our season low for points allowed was 19 against Denver and the fewest points we gave up in that “good” month was 20 (which was sandwiched between games where our defense blew a huge lead against Tampa and got stomped by New Orleans). And in the Bills game, minus the turnovers by the Chiefs offense, the Chiefs D still gave up 34 points…tied with two other blowout games.

Any improvement that people see in the perfomance of this team’s defense is there only because people want to see improvement. But if you look at the scoreboard and the results on the field, which are the only measures of improvement that matter, the defensive improvement is not there. If anything this defense has gone backwards since the start of the season (and the only reason they were decent against New England was because New England lost their MVP quarterback mid-game…and still won).

Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.

by UCrawford on Nov 26, 2008 11:46 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Stat question

Recently, has our run defense improved?

I was expecting Lynch to run all over us, but he didn’t break 100 yards did he?

by PVChiefsfan on Nov 26, 2008 12:24 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

well, its not like he HAD to

they passed us silly, and Edwards was running over us too

by sm7600 on Nov 26, 2008 12:29 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

4.5 Yards Per Carry

And sm7600 is correct…the only reason Lynch didn’t get 100 yards on us is because they didn’t give him enough carries because they didn’t have to. He, Fred Jackson, and Trent Edwards were plenty productive in the running game with the carries they had. And Trent Edwards had his best game of the season against us (and he’d been crap for the previous month).

Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.

by UCrawford on Nov 26, 2008 12:34 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

also in the 4 game stretch referred to

We threw one interception and had a couple fumbles. We turned the ball over less which makes it look better because our opposition had less possessions.

Indecision is the key to flexibility

by cmpotter on Nov 26, 2008 1:59 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I can make the argument that they played worse

because guys were coming back from the injury list.

by sm7600 on Nov 26, 2008 12:30 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

So we are better or worse? Now I am confused.

Indecision is the key to flexibility

by cmpotter on Nov 26, 2008 8:47 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I Think The Defense Lacks Any Chemistry

Because the defensive coordinator is a screaming jackass who’s trying to do two full-time jobs (and failing at both) because he’s incapable of working with other people or adapting to today’s NFL.

Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.

by UCrawford on Nov 25, 2008 4:43 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

RIght the only thing that is cohesive is our offense.....who would have thought.

Indecision is the key to flexibility

by cmpotter on Nov 25, 2008 5:05 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Four Games Into The Season

I definitely wouldn’t have believed it. :)

Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.

by UCrawford on Nov 25, 2008 6:38 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

These guys will be good together

With some solid coaching, and someone not to hold their hand, but to get in their ass when they fail. They have been told to much its ok, we are getting better when in reality they are not.

by Eric Allen on Nov 25, 2008 6:05 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Every Sunday

Every team has their good and bad games and on every Sunday you see unexpected blow outs and mistakes by the generally solid units. We just started out really, really bad, and I do think that the players have learned and grown drastically since the first games of the season. I still think we are expecting them to be a top 10 Defense, when there was just too much ground for them to cover. It will come. I still remember the posts of Allen being a bust, Mitchell being a mediocre LB, Wilkerson being worthless, etc. They all need to come into their own, and have a supporting cast that they fit into.

I know there is much more to it and I don’t have time to detail it right now, (coaching and type of Defense), but as far as the players we have I am excited for the rest of this season, but more excited about the returning players, the ones we better acquire and next season. 8 – 8 here we come!

by TXChiefan on Nov 25, 2008 7:03 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I refuse to get excited over 500

and I have no confidence that we will get what we need

by sm7600 on Nov 25, 2008 8:52 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Especially Since

Herm’s and Carl’s records for the last decade indicate that the best they’ll probably be able to do after that is build a team a game or two over .500.

Carl Peterson couldn’t build a championship contender with Marty Schottenheimer here. What makes anyone think he’s going to do it with Herm Edwards, whose winning percentage is much lower than Schottenheimer’s?

Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.

by UCrawford on Nov 25, 2008 9:08 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I can't prove it

I am looking at it from a different perspective – not by past stats and records, but by opportunity.

It’s like a carpenter that moves into an older home and tries to add on to it to make it a dream home. The existing foundation and form is still there, so he will have to constantly build around what already exists. Some materials are perfect for the dream home and some will work, but aren’t quite right but he still may try to use them. If the original foundation breaks down, the entire house will crumble.

His only hope is to start over and lay a new, fresh foundation and start building it up. Some of the better materials can still be used though. He may make some mistakes in purchasing materials, but replaces it with better quality material when he sees the mistake to ensure the dream home is built carefully and solidly.

Herm the builder is working on our “dream home” and is still waiting for the foundation to set. A couple of items from the old “house” still needs to be replaced. Once the new materials are settled, he can continue to fit materials in to solidify our house as needed. Very soon, this will be a true dream home that we all can live with, but I think it will just take some careful and patient planning. I do believe that the time is right now and his opportunity to prove himself as the builder is entirely in his hands. He will prove himself now one way or the other, but it sure can’t be done in 12 games. We know it takes time, so just like we said from the beginning, it will take time and patience. Let’s let this season run it’s course and evaluate the “house” in it’s current state at the end of this phase.

by TXChiefan on Nov 25, 2008 9:38 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Past Performance

I am looking at it from a different perspective – not by past stats and records, but by opportunity.

Past performance, while not a guarantor, is the best indicator of future performance. Opportunity given to someone who’s shown no indication that he can run with it is just a waste of that opportunity.

Today Bill Williamson wrote a piece on ESPN’s AFC West blog about how he was wondering if Herm Edwards did have what it took to turn the team around. You should go check out the comment thread on that article, especially the comments from former Jets fans noting that what we’re seeing with Herm here is exactly what they saw from Herm in New York. He’s not interested in winning games…he’s interested in having a job and if that means assembling the kind of coaching staff he can throw under the bus that’s what he’ll do.

Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.

by UCrawford on Nov 25, 2008 9:47 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Rebuilding

Show me where in the past Edwards or Peterson rebuilt a team this drastically. The answer you can’t! Really can’t see this team competing for a championship until 2010. NO MATTER WHO THE COACH AND GM ARE!

by dklogue1 on Nov 26, 2008 2:04 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

+1

The Raiders are living proof of this. They have been rebuilding since the Super Bowl beat down. Of course Al Davis doesn’t help. They have tried with draft picks and tried with a new coach every year. They are now trying with a ton of over priced free agents.

We will be a good team. Herm is the right guy for finding young talent. He is no the right guy to drive this bus to a championship, division or otherwise.

Indecision is the key to flexibility

by cmpotter on Nov 26, 2008 8:54 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Herm's Only Good At Finding DB Talent

His scouting record outside of the position he played has been rather crappy, actually.

Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.

by UCrawford on Nov 26, 2008 9:42 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

No need to hate on Dorsey.

Save Matt Ryan, has any top pick made any noise? Its too damn early to Gholston has done nothing, Chris Long has done nothing, McFadden hasn’t done much.

The verdict is still out on all these fuckers, no reason to get all Chicken Little on them. I still think our boys are over achieving under Thiggy, lets give this bitch some time and try to keep the positive vibes flowing.

by HIV 2 Elway on Nov 26, 2008 4:01 AM CST reply actions 0 recs