Can we make it official

by sm7600 on Nov 24, 2008 9:30 AM CST Comment 48 comments

and call Derrick Johnson a bust? How much longer are we supposed to wait for him to be a consistent game changer? He can't get off blocks, so he's not a run stuffer. He's ok in space, but not that good a one on one tackler, and he doesn't have the explosion a linebacker needs for a blitz. Yes, he showed up for the Denver game, but has he really been there (when healthy) at any other time?

Can we chalk this one up as another epic draft day failure?

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of Arrowhead Pride's writers or editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of Arrowhead Pride writers or editors.

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But...

Has he ever had a good linebacking corps to go along with his talent? Give him talent alongside and I think he’ll be REAL good.

Brandon Spikes in ’09!

by Dono on Nov 24, 2008 10:00 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

Derrick Johnson

Probably tops out at being a decent linebacker at best. He’s essentially the second coming of Broderick Thomas (although he’s yet to have a season on par with Thomas’ 1991 season)…which isn’t necessarily a bad thing because Broderick Thomas was a solid player. Only problem is that we drafted him to be the second coming of Derrick Thomas and on that count he’s fallen very short.

Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.

by UCrawford on Nov 24, 2008 10:23 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

"we drafted him to be the second coming of Derrick Thomas"

Literally, or figuratively?

Literally, he’s nothing like Thomas – in college Johnson was a weak-side LB known for his pursuit speed and coverage abilities, not his pass-rushing abilities.

by PVChiefsfan on Nov 24, 2008 10:51 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

He seems to have good "over run" the play speed...lol

"But what do I know, I’m like an empty room with a large ECHO"

by Lanier63 on Nov 24, 2008 11:00 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

He isn't turning out to be the impact player

he has been touted as… I don’t think you can even count the Denver game either because he has played that team twice a year, so he BETTER play well against them.

Honestly, I am not so sure it’s his fault, or the result of the playcalling on defense.

have you seen my baseball?

by IISaiNtII on Nov 24, 2008 11:13 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

I Honestly Don't Know Either

I suspect he’s being misused too, but still at some point the player has to produce something to demonstrate he’s worth the investment and Derrick Johnson just hasn’t shown that he was worth that first round pick. Maybe he does better with a different coach or a different team…or maybe he’ll be the same no matter where he goes. All I know is that players’ careers can only be evaluated seriously on what they have as opposed to what they’re capable of doing and so far Johnson’s been disappointing for the investment the Chiefs made in him.

Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.

by UCrawford on Nov 24, 2008 11:28 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Correction

All I know is that players’ careers can only be evaluated seriously on what they have done as opposed to what they’re capable of doing

Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.

by UCrawford on Nov 24, 2008 11:28 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I wholeheartedly agree.

It’s not quite so much up to him where he plays, and he has to be able to play what he’s asked to. A great athlete will be able to do that, an average athlete will struggle to adapt to change.

It’s unfortunate that we don’t choose talent based on what the gameplan is. It’s also unfortunate that we don’t adapt the gameplan to the talent we have and choose to play on the team. Quite the chicken and the egg conundrum that could easily be solved by making a few changes.

have you seen my baseball?

by IISaiNtII on Nov 24, 2008 11:32 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

There Was An Observation That A Baseball Analyst Made Once About The Royals

I forget which one, think it was Rob Neyer, Peter Gammons, or Jim Baker at ESPN…but it was about the time that Tony Muser was running down Mike Sweeney for being a “milk and cookies” player. Anyway, the analyst pointed out that there was a common thread that distinguished good organizations from bad organizations in all walks of life. Good organizations emphasize their employees’ strengths and tailor their plans to capitalize on those. Bad organizations emphasize their employees’ weaknesses and spend most of their time running those employees down when they fail.

The Chiefs right now fit the textbook definition of a bad organization…when management has a faulty gameplan that doesn’t play to the teams’ strengths, they blame the players. When players make mistakes because they had to push themselve to overcome the faulty gameplan, the team blames the players. When players the Chiefs sign aren’t able to execute the jobs the team expects of them, they don’t question whether the signing was a bad idea or if the gameplan wasn’t great, they just blame the player.

Point is, none of this is going to change until the people running the bad organization are fired. It’s not so much a lack of talent that’s causing the Chiefs’ issues here…it’s bad management philosophy that’s endemic at almost all levels of the organization.

Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.

by UCrawford on Nov 24, 2008 1:57 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

That's because right now

it’s about the bottom line. Can they break even until they can hike the prices up when the stadium is done and get a product on the field worth watching?

have you seen my baseball?

by IISaiNtII on Nov 24, 2008 2:09 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I Don't Think They'll Field A Product Worth Watching

They didn’t intentionally bust on their 2006 draft picks and hand out big contracts to guys like McIntosh, Harris, and DeMorrio because they were trying to save a few bucks…they did it because they can’t effectively evaluate the talent they need to bring in.

The Chiefs can slap a fresh coat of paint on Arrowhead and it’s still not going to hide the rot on the field…the problem with the Chiefs is that they can’t consistently draft good talent and they make more bad free agent decisions than good ones.

Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.

by UCrawford on Nov 24, 2008 2:23 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Honestly I think

that right now it’s all about the money. They announced the youth movement and tried to prepare the fans for troubled times, but I don’t think anyone expect them to be this terrible after so many games.

I understand that alot of the heartache is due to injuries and a revolving door of players, but that is something that should be able to have been mostly avoided through better conditioning and preparation. I have never seen anything like this injury problem the team has had. Perhaps that goes back to bad scouting as well?

have you seen my baseball?

by IISaiNtII on Nov 24, 2008 2:39 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Maybe

I won’t push myself off as an expert on the subject but I think that when you’ve got injuries like this all through the team and when the team’s got a pronounced habit of fading in the second half of games (which the Chiefs do) one of the first places you should start looking is the strength and conditioning program. I looked it up awhile ago and we’ve had our current S&C coach for two years (Cedric Smith) and as far as I can tell his only qualification for being a strength and conditioning coach was that he used to play fullback in the NFL. His education background posted on the Chiefs website is pretty sparse and doesn’t appear to include any kinesiology or physical therapy type backgrounds…just a basic health sciences degree from his college days that appears to be a basic degree for people who want to get into the health care field but offers no real training in how to work with professional athletes.

Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.

by UCrawford on Nov 24, 2008 3:20 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I remember

bitching about the same problems since Harmageddon arrived in KC over these last 2 years. And I also remember when they brought Smith in, I thought he was an upgrade over the previous guy.

At any rate, they really need to get someone in that has some formal training on training athletes.

have you seen my baseball?

by IISaiNtII on Nov 24, 2008 5:28 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

That Internship FanPost Put Up The Other Day Kind Of Made Me Wonder

Does Carl Peterson cheap out on the salaries he pays his front office staff? If so, that would explain a lot. Like why that bulletin about the internship looked like it was written by an 8th grader who hadn’t learned how to use spell-check.

Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.

by UCrawford on Nov 24, 2008 5:48 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I think DJ is a bust

…but I can’t fault the pick because I wanted him too

by KHAZAD on Nov 24, 2008 1:08 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

A linebacker can only play as well as the 4 lineman in front of him let him play

that aside with the other linebackers around him makes for a weak spot on our team. You can throw a majority of good linebackers in there right now and they won’t produce. Not to mention Johnson isn’t sent to blitz all that often. I really don’t know what people expect from him with this horrid core of players around him.

by Shawn on Nov 24, 2008 1:18 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

He's Supposedly One Of That Core

That’s the point…Johnson was drafted to be a difference maker (which is what first-round picks are supposed to be) and he isn’t. Do talent issues in the lineup hinder him? Sure, probably. But a great player will still be able to overcome that and post results. Derrick Johnson, on the other hand, has shown that he’s really only as good as his supporting cast and when the cast isn’t good then he disappears. By that standard he’s a bust because you need more than that from a first-round pick.

That’s not to say he’s a terrible player. I think he’s pretty decent. But he’s just a complimentary guy, not a star.

Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.

by UCrawford on Nov 24, 2008 2:01 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

True

Even Ray Lewis said he couldnt do much without a good lineman in front of him. He was blessed with Ngata, or how ever you spell it. DJ has no help, and any linebacker would struggle. POLLARD needs to go!!!

by GHOST OF DT on Nov 24, 2008 2:35 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Let's hear this out

Instead of going around to each thread asking for Pollard to get the axe, tell us why you don’t think he’s any good? It’s my opinion he’s a core player and a backbone to our defensive future.

by KansasCityShuffle on Nov 24, 2008 3:20 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Hmm

He never wraps up for a tackle. He gets caught out of position alot. He takes bad angles when setting up for a tackle.. At least Wesley made tackles. We have no backbone, and thats why we’re giving up record numbers weekly.

by GHOST OF DT on Nov 25, 2008 8:59 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I just don't buy it anymore

There is too much recorded history here in KC of poor coaching and talent evaluation. Everyone who leaves echo’s the same sentiments and its simply not a string of bad luck we’re hitting with drafts & FA. It’s the just the people hired to do their jobs are historically inept and couldn’t coach themselves out of a paper bag….

I have to recant my statements about Kawika Mitchell. After yesterday’s performance it looks like we made the right move in letting him go, but even Mitchell symbolizes systematic failure within the organization. He’s a natural WLB and we try to convert him into a MLB, like we’ve done with Pat Thomas and unsurprisingly neither have worked out with any success. I don’t regret any of our 1st round picks since 2005 because they all have been talented players which show promise they’ve just never reached their potentail because there’s no system in place to develop them. Napoleon Harris recovers a fumble for a touchdown and Jimmy Wilkerson gets two sacks yesterday………there’s reasons they couldn’t do this in Kansas City and its NOT because of their talent or abilities

This rebuilding effort will die before it gets up on its legs if they don’t shit-can the entire coaching staff sans Chan Gailey. And we all are starting to realize this, even the most naive of us

by KansasCityShuffle on Nov 24, 2008 3:18 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Player development is a problem

There have been some talented players drafted by KC who never get any better. This is in addition to overdrafted guys like Siavii and Sims.

But DJ is an example of a guy who was acknowledged as talented by everyone, and was pretty good when he started here, but hasn’t really gotten any better. I think the team’s coaching staff is woeful at developing the players they have, and when you combine that with a bad record in recent drafts, then you end up with a total mess and lose 19 out of 20 games. I’d hate to see someone like Dorsey never get any better, this team cannot afford that or the cycle will never end.

This team is in horrible shape and big changes at the top need to be made the second this season is over. Scott Pioli should be offered complete control of the franchise and he should be allowed to choose the next coach. If he won’t take the job, then someone similar needs to be found. We need a smart, aggressive GM with vision and insight into the game as it is now, and not someone who is interested in hiring buddies to consolidate his power.

The Chiefs need to draft better and use their cap space better but they also need to develop players better. We’re going to be drafting at the top of each round and the players we bring in must be properly developed, just as the talented guys we brought in this past time need to be developed as well.

by Offense of the 70s on Nov 24, 2008 3:40 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Agreed

It’s not just about drafting good players, it’s about drafting good players who can accomplish what you want them to accomplish and molding and developing them to fit what you want to achieve. All I’ve seen from this years supposedly great draft is a lot of talented pieces that don’t appear to fit anywhere because the coaching staff doesn’t appear to have a plan for how to use them as a team.

Getting talented players in the draft is a good thing. Getting talented players in the draft who don’t fit your system and who you don’t win with isn’t really a good thing at all.

Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.

by UCrawford on Nov 24, 2008 3:43 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I just am not convinced that this team can not win with these players.

< All I’ve seen from this years supposedly great draft is a lot of talented pieces that don’t appear to fit anywhere because the coaching staff doesn’t appear to have a plan for how to use them as a team.>

+5168532168465165464 Could’nt agree more.

Do we really have a system for players to fit in? A weak cover 2 that doesn’t send players after the quarterback? Speaking defense since we have drafting the majority of our “impact players” do the defensive side of the ball over the last few years.

by Shawn on Nov 24, 2008 8:28 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Sorry I was trying to quote those from you UC.

by Shawn on Nov 24, 2008 8:28 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

To Block Quote

Just highlight what you want quoted and then hit the little quotation marks at the top of the comment box.

by Joel Thorman on Nov 24, 2008 8:30 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Thanks

by Shawn on Nov 24, 2008 8:31 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Can you really evaluate DJ with the shit that is around him.

It is just like the other post about Pollard. This isn’t the NBA……one team doesn’t carry a team of garbage. He hasn’t really had a good defense since he has been here.

The whole “he can’t get off blocks” thing is retarded. He isn’t suppose to have to fight off O line men. Besides that was a knock on him coming out. That is why he fell to us in the draft. Our D line isn’t doing its job so there for he can’t really do his.

Indecision is the key to flexibility

by cmpotter on Nov 24, 2008 7:20 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

One player doesn't carry a team of garbage. Sorry a little ahead of myself.

Indecision is the key to flexibility

by cmpotter on Nov 24, 2008 7:21 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

One Player Doesn't Carry A Team Of Garbage

But a good player doesn’t disappear even though the talent around him is lacking (unless he’s a wide receiver, of course). DJ’s disappeared, which I think creates a valid question of whether he’s really as good as the Chiefs thought he was when they drafted him.

Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.

by UCrawford on Nov 24, 2008 8:27 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

You do realize this is the worst defense in the league right?

Indecision is the key to flexibility

by cmpotter on Nov 24, 2008 8:41 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Yes

But even good players on bad defenses don’t disappear like DJ has.

I’m not saying that he’s a bad player, just that he’s probably not the impact player the Chiefs thought they drafted. And that’s not on DJ…he can only do what he can do.

Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.

by UCrawford on Nov 24, 2008 8:51 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

So he isn't having a pro bowl year.

He is no Joey Porter, Terrel Suggs, or Keith Bullock. Oh wait Bullock has a good defense and 72 tackles with no forced turnovers. Suggs has a good defense and 50tackles with 1ff and 2 int. Joey Porter has 39 tackles and 3 ff. These three players will probably make the pro bowl all have something in common. They have played in every game this year and have defensive lines that take on linemen. Johnson 47 tackles, 3FF and 1 pick and missed two games. So comparing stats to pro bowl caliber players…..has he really disappeared?

Indecision is the key to flexibility

by cmpotter on Nov 24, 2008 9:19 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Yes, He Has

His 47 tackles don’t rank him in the top 40 players in the AFC. Even if you prorated the two games he missed and gave him 57 tackles that would only tie him for 34th or 35th in the AFC. The 3 forced fumbles are decent but that \lumps him in with a group of about 15 players in the AFC alone, so that’s hardly impressive. And while he doesn’t necessarily need to post top ten tackle numbers to be a good player he isn’t contributing much in the pass rush either with only 1.5 sacks and 68 tackles (his projected total for the year) just isn’t very good, even with his teammates’ struggles.

DJ’s having about as non-descript a year as you’re going to find, in what should be his prime, and that counts as disappearing.

Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.

by UCrawford on Nov 24, 2008 10:08 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

We don't blitz how the hell is he going to get a sack?!

Not to mention that we are so predictable when we do it is nearly impossible to get to the QB. We have 6 sacks as team for crying out loud. You understand how a defense works? The line takes up blockers freeing up gaps for the linebackers. SInce this isn’t happening on our 32 ranked defense…….he in turn has to take on offensive linemen. Show me an outside linebacker that is successful having to do that. Also it is hard to get sacks when he has to drop into pass coverage due to the uncover 2. Scrap the cover 2 and get him some help and see what he does.

This is his worst year so far. His rookie season he had 95 tackles in 16 games. The next season he had 76 tackles in 13 games. Last year he had 94 tackles in 16 games. We haven’t had a good defense since he has been here. Sorry but He needs some help.

Indecision is the key to flexibility

by cmpotter on Nov 24, 2008 10:29 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Just Saying

He’s not contributing anything that makes him stand out. He’s not making a lot of tackles, he’s not helping in the pass rush, he’s not doing anything that a lot of average players in the NFL aren’t doing. The defense may be hindering him from reaching his full potential but he’s done nothing to distinguish himself out there aside from one good game against Denver.

We haven’t had a good defense since he has been here. Sorry but He needs some help.

That’s been my whole point…he’s not an impact player, he’s just a guy who fills a role. I don’t know why you’re arguing with me on this because you’re saying the same thing I’m saying.

Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.

by UCrawford on Nov 24, 2008 10:55 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

The Denver game just happens to be

the games where the defense showed up. I don’t care if he was replaced with insert name here. That player would be having a hard time as well. No player will stand out on this defense. I am arguing with you because there is a reason for why he isn’t a pro bowler. The D is horrible if players were doing there job he might be able to be that player.

Indecision is the key to flexibility

by cmpotter on Nov 25, 2008 7:40 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Tell It To Jessie Tuggle

From 1989 to 1993 Jessie Tuggle (linebacker, Atlanta) never got less than 183 tackles in any season and his defense was in the bottom 10 every year.

Impact players find a way to shine, even on bad teams. Derrick Johnson is not an impact player.

Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.

by UCrawford on Nov 25, 2008 8:07 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

He got more than 183 each season because he

was apparently the only guy on the defense who could tackle =)

by PVChiefsfan on Nov 25, 2008 8:39 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

That Was My Point

Even on a terrible defensive squad Tuggle was able to stand out. On a terrible Chiefs defensive squad Derrick Johnson fades with the rest. That doesn’t make him a bad player, it would just indicate that he’s probably never going to become a great player.

Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.

by UCrawford on Nov 25, 2008 9:09 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs