Chiefs/Saints Game Recap
by Chris Thorman on Nov 17, 2008 7:11 AM CST
in 2008 Campaign
51 comments
Despite the losses piling up, I've really been digging doing the game recaps on Monday mornings because this year we actually have a narrative to discuss. There are improvements. There are setbacks. The last nine games last year were so terrible to watch and blog about because the team was at a standstill and plain disgusting to watch. This year we're still losing but at least it's interesting.
The decision to punt the ball
You knew this was coming from Herm...
"At that point it’s a one-score game and you still feel like if you can hold them...we had stopped them the series before."
Sitting on the Saint's 40-yard line with ten minutes left in the game, Herm Edwards made the decision to punt the ball away on 4th and 2 to a team that had scored on five of the previous six drives. For some reason, Herm zeroed in on the Chiefs' stop on the previous drive and completely ignored the evidence from the rest of the game.
As soon as Dustin Colquitt kicked that ball down to the 12-yard line, you knew it was a mistake. A sinking feeling began to develop in my stomach. I knew the Saints were going to score. The odds certainly tell you to punt the ball when you're on the 40-yard line with ten minutes left and you're down a touchdown.
You also have to look at the odds of the #1 offense driving against the NFL's worst defense. I wasn't surprised when the Saints drove down the field and kicked that field goal to go up by two scores. They had been doing it all day long.
Only one word describes this decision: gutless.
Halftime Crash
| Week | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 |
| 3rd Qtr | 0 | 0 | 7 | 3 | 0 | 0 | 3 | 0 | 0 | 3 |
Yes, you're reading that table correctly. The Chiefs have scored 16 total points in the third quarter this season. The third quarter this season is like the first quarter of last year. Remember when the Chiefs couldn't start a game well to save their life? The Chiefs only scored 26 points in the first quarter last season and we're on pace for about that in the third quarter of the '08 season.
I've racked my brain quite a bit on this issue of scoring points in the third quarter and the only conclusion I can come to is that our opponent's coaches are making better half time adjustments than our coaches. Nothing else really explains the lack of production.
Goal line woes
If the Chiefs are able to convert their stalled field goal drives into touchdowns, they probably win the game.
It's already becoming clear that most fans disagree with the play calling down there and I have to agree. The Chiefs needed to tighten up the line and power their way into the end zone, as opposed to keeping the offense in the Wildcat/Pistol formation.
Chalk this one up to a Chan Gailey learning experience. Why he didn't call different plays with his experience...I don't know.
I'm going to quote DJ's post from last night because it says exactly what I want to: "And most of all, when you are in 1st and Goal at the one yard line, you DAMN WELL better be able to get in the end zone in three tries by running it without having to resort to low percentage fade passes that don't work 50% of the time."
Yep, exactly.
Obligatory "We have no pass rush" mention
The Chiefs' six sacks on the season is the lowest total of any team at this point in the season since 1982. You know, the year they started tracking sacks.
Interesting side note: "Quarterback sack" was first coined by hall of fame defensive end Deacon Jones.He felt that a sack devastated the offense in the same way that a city was devastated when it was sacked."
Spreading the ball around
One thing Brodie Croyle never really did well was spread the ball to a number of different receivers. Tyler Thigpen does this very well. Thigpen hit seven different receivers yesterday.
To be fair to Croyle, the Chiefs do have a much improved receiving corps over last year (Remember Bobby Sippio?) and now that I think about, I didn't want Croyle passing to any of those guys anyway.
The bad kind of special
| Net Punting Average | 39.5 | 43.6 | 45.3 | 32.3 | 39.3 | 41.6 | 28.3 | 27.2 | 41.0 | 33.3 |
| Punt Returns | 1 | 3 | 3 | 1 | 2 | 1 | 2 | 2 | 1 | 2 |
| Punt Return Yards | 7 | 37 | 14 | 1 | -2 | 2 | 7 | 9 | -1 | 19 |
| Punt Return Avg. | 7.0 | 12.3 | 4.7 | 1.0 | -1.0 | 2.0 | 3.5 | 4.5 | -1.0 | 9.5 |
I'm willing to be patient with our special teams problems because of all of the Chiefs' injuries this year. Coverage teams are filled with backups, rookies and any other smattering of players the team has to put on the field. It has to be tough to get any sort of consistency out of a group that is anything but consistent in its personnel.
***
What this game really did a good job of was highlighting the Kansas City Chiefs major problem areas. Issues with game management, running the football, special teams play and our pass rush were all on display yesterday.
Here are some links to get you going this morning.
- Game thoughts from Steven at AA.
- Jason Whitlock pulls a 180 from last week's editorial.
- The usual calm perspective from Jon at Home of the Chiefs.
- Josh Looney deserves credit for maintaining an interesting game log over at KCChiefs.com. Betcha didn't even know the Chiefs live blogged the game, did you?
- Just go read everything over at BobGretz.com.
- Post game quote links: Misc. players, Tyler Thigpen and Herm Edwards.
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Whitlock
He finally realized that no matter how much the Chiefs improve in one area, they seem to regress in another enough to cost us any chance of winning. I still thought he let Herm off the hook a bit too much, but overall he was dead-on with that column. Winners win and losers find excuses for why they don’t. And the fact of the matter is that Clark Hunt’s team will be losers as long as he keeps letting it be run by losers (Herm and Carl).
Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.
by UCrawford on Nov 17, 2008 7:27 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Question
What are your thoughts on the turn around of the Dolphins? What can we take from their story?
by Chris Thorman on Nov 17, 2008 7:37 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
You can take that having a true leader makes the difference.
It takes knowledge and experience in being able to encircle yourself with the right staff that shares a common goal. THEN being able to execute that plan is the next step.
Parcels has done it.
I think JW saw my signature…lol
Bill Parcell’s: "You are what your record says you are."
by THE_TRUTH on Nov 17, 2008 7:44 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Same Thing You Can Take From The Falcons, Rams And Raiders
Competent coaching makes a world of difference. The Chiefs, Dolphins, Falcons, Rams and Raiders are five teams in rebuilding mode that were in pretty much the same position last season. The Falcons and Dolphins changed their head coach and GM in the offseason and replaced them with people willing to change the mindset of the organization and took a realistic approach to free agency, trades and the draft that built a foundation for them to win with (Dolphins made a very underrated trade to get Ayodele and Fasano from the Cowboys, Falcons made a key pickup in Michael Turner and traded away their overrated starting CB for a draft pick…both had solid drafts). The Chiefs, Raiders, and Rams, on the other hand, kept the same GMs and coaches in charge of their team*, then all proceeded to make questionable moves in the areas of either free agency (Raiders, Chiefs), trades (Raiders), and drafting (Rams, Raiders). It’s not really a coincidence that out of the five worst teams in the NFL last year, the teams that removed the people who ran their teams into the ground got better while the ones who kept the same management team in place stayed just as bad or got worse. Simply put, the Dolphins and Falcons are winning now and the Chiefs are losing because Clark Hunt is content with letting two guys who built and ran a losing team (Carl and Herm) keep their jobs because he won’t hold them accountable.
*The Raiders’ head coach is unique from the Rams’ and Chiefs’ head coaches because the owner of the team stripped him of authority for half his team in the offseason and undermined him on offense with his free agent moves and drafting. In Oakland the owner/GM is the sole problem.
Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.
by UCrawford on Nov 17, 2008 8:06 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
By the way
I’m very curious how these poll results are going to turn out.
by Chris Thorman on Nov 17, 2008 7:36 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
SIP-PI-O! SIP-PI-O! SIP-PI-O!
Er…
…Brad-ley! Brad-ley! Brad-ley!
by Mully on Nov 17, 2008 7:38 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Man Sippio
What a joke. I hope time has helped people see that. Geez.
by Chris Thorman on Nov 17, 2008 7:42 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
He Did The Best He Could
And I’d still rather have him on the roster than Webb. Webb’s done nothing to show he’s an NFL caliber football player and a lot to show he isn’t. At least Sippio can be defended by saying he was never given much of a chance.
Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.
by UCrawford on Nov 17, 2008 9:02 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Speaking of receivers
I think William Franklin is looking damn promising. He had that great preseason catch, the sideline catch against San Diego (I didnt know until then they stopped calling push outs) and I saw the highlight of his reception against New Orleans. Those have been the only few times they’ve thrown his way and he’s exhibited great hands. I’m not a Mizzou fan so I don’t how good he was in college but I think he may be one of the handful of good receivers this franchise has ever drafted. I like the corps of Bowe, Bradley, and Franklin and including Gonzalez we really have some weapons that a spread offense really can utilize
by KansasCityShuffle on Nov 17, 2008 9:21 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed
I forgot to mention that I liked the catch he made. He seems to be improving and developing some chemistry with Thigpen. Hopefully he’ll continue that and work his way up.
Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.
by UCrawford on Nov 17, 2008 9:40 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
couldnt be worse
than Webb or Darling. Both are busts in my book.
by C-7PumpkinSmasher on Nov 17, 2008 9:43 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Darling's Not So Much A Bust
He had a short term deal and we’re not paying him a lot. He’s just a fringe player who didn’t turn out to be a sleeper. Webb’s not really a bust either considering where he was drafted. But he’s a definite waste of a roster spot/
Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.
by UCrawford on Nov 17, 2008 9:44 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Regarding The Punt
As soon as Dustin Colquitt kicked that ball down to the 12-yard line, you knew it was a mistake. A sinking feeling began to develop in my stomach. I knew the Saints were going to score.
Par for the course…the team can put themselves in a position to win, Herm makes a stupid call. I wish I could say that the punt gave me a sinking feeling, but I’m pretty much resigned to the idea from the start of every game that no matter how well the Chiefs play Herm will either be tactically outmatched by the other guy or he’ll simply blow a key call. I don’t get sinking feelings on punts any more because I have no expectations that the Chiefs will win any of their games. That’s how little faith I have in Herm Edwards…he coaches this team just well enough to lose.
Only one word describes this decision: gutless.
Completely agree. And it’s the most visible symptom of the person I believe Herm is. Gutless also explains why he throws his players under the bus when he has a faulty gameplan, or why he gives evasive answers at press conferences, or why he refuses to accept responsibility for his record as a head coach, or why he didn’t implement a more open offense until he was absolutely forced to (because he lost both of the QBs who could run his “offense” without looking like the worst QB on earth). Herm is simply a gutless head coach…and it’s reflected in his actions both on and off the field.
Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.
by UCrawford on Nov 17, 2008 7:45 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
RE
I’m not at the point you are but I’m moving in that direction concerning Herm.
by Chris Thorman on Nov 17, 2008 7:50 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Give It Some Time
I finally reached that point after the Chiefs blew the Tampa game because Herm sat on a lead. I’m glad to see individual progress from some of the players (Thigpen in particular) but I’ve got no expectations that Herm can get these guys to play together well enough as a team to ever be a championship contender.
Not that I’d ever want Herm calling plays for me in a big game to begin with. In a close game with a key decision to make, I just know he’ll make the one he thinks will make him look like less of a fool rather than the one that will actually give his team a shot to win the game. He’d rather lose in a fashion where people can’t point fingers at him rather than take a shot at winning if he thinks he might look foolish.
Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.
by UCrawford on Nov 17, 2008 8:13 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
You should never punt from the 40
The punt pinned them down at the 12-yard line and was only a swing of 28 yards in field position. That is a horrible call even in the 1st quarter; you are 5 – 10 yards away from field goal range. And don’t give me the ‘you give up too good of field position’ argument, many teams start from the 35-yard line after punts and kickoffs so your D should be use to defending that range. Not only that but this gives your team an energy boost and a feeling of confidence that the coach believes they can win, so even if you don’t convert it is more likely your team will go out and play better on D. By punting you are telling your team that you don’t believe they can win the game.
Once Herm decided to punt it took all the energy out of the Chiefs, you could see how dejected the team looked and they played flat from that point on. Coaches are cowards and Herm is one of the biggest chickens in the game.
What makes this call even worse is that on just the drive before we had 4th-and-3 on the 38-yard line. Now how is it that you go for it at that point but once you get close to tying the game you punt on 4th-and 2 on the 40-yard line? There is no reason for that and it is those kinds of decisions that make Herm a bad coach, I think he is a great Mon – Sat coach but his game day decision are some of the worst in the League.
by tevans96 on Nov 17, 2008 9:52 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
As For Thigpen
Despite the low completion percentage and a couple of wild overthrows, I didn’t think he played too badly yesterday. If this represents the phase of his career where he starts struggling because teams have adjusted to him, we’re not in bad shape with Thigpen. I thought Whitlock’s assessment on him was entirely too harsh.
Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.
by UCrawford on Nov 17, 2008 7:49 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Credit Saints DBs
I felt that the saints played a great game in defending our passes. There were several throws that have been there in other games but the saint’s players managed to get their hands up and break up the pass. And then there were a few more drops this week than normal. Thigpen had a few throws that were not real sharp but he is looking more and more like the real deal. If that is an off game for him then we will be just fine.
by tevans96 on Nov 17, 2008 9:57 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed
The Saints played better than expected and if this is Thigpen’s low point from here on out we should consider ourselves very fortunate to have him.
Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.
by UCrawford on Nov 17, 2008 9:58 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Saints' D I Mean
The Saints offense were who we thought they were. And so was Herm.
Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.
by UCrawford on Nov 17, 2008 9:59 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Geez...give me Cardinals flashback why doncha ;)
Bill Parcell’s: "You are what your record says you are."
by THE_TRUTH on Nov 17, 2008 10:04 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Here's the problem
…I don’t see a way out of this slump with the status quo. Seriously, does anyone see us being decent next year with this mgmt? I think we all hope we’ll be close to Miami’s caliber and they were in our shoes last year. But that’s wishful thinking.
We do not have the leadership (based on their history) to build a team that can be competitive or a contender.
Bill Parcell’s: "You are what your record says you are."
by THE_TRUTH on Nov 17, 2008 7:50 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Agreed
Bill Parcels is a hell of a coach. Herm is not.
by Chris Thorman on Nov 17, 2008 7:50 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Parcels- There's an aura of toughness that's reminiscent of old school but with modern play calling and execution.
Bill Parcell’s: "You are what your record says you are."
by THE_TRUTH on Nov 17, 2008 8:02 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Also
If you’re interested in who votes for what in polls, click their user name and you can see how they voted.
by Chris Thorman on Nov 17, 2008 7:56 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
I loved
what Brian Waters had to say after the game. Every time I hear him speak I’m reminded why he’s one of my favorite Chiefs as he’s the true definition of leader and he’s always been a consummate professional
by KansasCityShuffle on Nov 17, 2008 8:02 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
He's Been Good This Year
I definitely misjudged him this offseason…and I’m glad to have been wrong.
Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.
by UCrawford on Nov 17, 2008 8:07 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Whitlock was right
As much as I may not want to agree with him about Thigpen (remains to be seenm really), everything else in his article was spot on. We love losers and more importantly Kansas City loves losing teams. When will we buck the trend?
by KansasCityShuffle on Nov 17, 2008 8:09 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Seriously
If Herm hasn’t done enough to lose his job this season; what’s this say about Clark Hunt? As we see in the Raiders it’s one thing to have a Coach & GM who’s not with the program, but if the OWNER doesn’t get the picture……………..we’re just screwed
by KansasCityShuffle on Nov 17, 2008 8:14 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
It Would Say
That Clark Hunt is also a loser because he’s content to let losers run his team.
The Chiefs will continue to be bad until the owner decides that it’s more important to hire people who put an emphasis on what the team does on the field as well as how the team does in the financial ledgers. Right now, he’s got a management team that only gives a passing thought to whether the team’s any good so long as they’re profitable. And if he keeps those guys around next year, that should tell you all you need to know about how much he’s interested in giving Kansas City a quality football team.
Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.
by UCrawford on Nov 17, 2008 8:19 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I already know
I just refuse to believe it until the start of next season. What I don’t understand is the business philosophy. How many more seasons like this can he continue to stay in the black? One would think a winning team would generate more income & revenue than a bottom cellar dweller. After Herm returns next season and we go 4-12 (if that), how could Herm ever find another head coaching job after his record in KC the last 3 years?
It’s been my gut feeling that Clark Hunt is in many ways just as clueless as Peterson & Edwards. Ever since that post from “TouchdownKansasCity” referencing the Forbes article
by KansasCityShuffle on Nov 17, 2008 8:26 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
He Made An Excellent Point
And the answer to your question is that I don’t know. Only way we’ll ever find out is by not buying Chiefs tickets and Chiefs merchandise. Until enough people do that, ownership’s got no real reason to change.
Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.
by UCrawford on Nov 17, 2008 8:29 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
+1
You don’t need to change until you need to change.
/obvious.
"If there’s a god he’s laughing at us and our football team." - Ben Folds
by webby37 on Nov 17, 2008 8:30 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Occam's Razor
The simplest answers are usually the correct ones. :)
Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.
by UCrawford on Nov 17, 2008 8:35 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Keep in mind UC that there's also the savings in the cap that's keeping them in the black...32 million is a lot of unslod tickets that still make the ledger look good.
Bill Parcell’s: "You are what your record says you are."
by THE_TRUTH on Nov 17, 2008 8:40 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
You Still Can't Hide Empty Seats
And eventually, if people quit showing up, the Chiefs will be forced to recognize that what’s going on is not going over well in KC.
That’s not to say that they’ll change…for all we know at this point, Clark Hunt will be just like his dad back in the 70s and 80s and let the team rot.
Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.
by UCrawford on Nov 17, 2008 9:00 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Knowing them
I’m sure they’re blaming the empty seats on the economy and attendance has no direct correlation to their performance on the field
by KansasCityShuffle on Nov 17, 2008 9:06 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Herm's Job Prospects
After Herm returns next season and we go 4-12 (if that), how could Herm ever find another head coaching job after his record in KC the last 3 years?
I suspect that he won’t. A lot of people outside of Kansas City were laughing at Herm’s hiring here when it was made (especially Jets fans). That’s probably because everyone outside of KC realized what a dog he was as a head coach. So I think that Kansas City will probably be the end of Herm’s career as a head coach unless Oakland decides to try and rub it in our face by hiring him, which I pray they’d do. Of course, Al Davis only likes offensive-minded guys running his team so even that’s unlikely.
Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.
by UCrawford on Nov 17, 2008 8:33 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
This kills me.
We’re witnessing the worst stretch of Kansas City football in franchise history. From Nov. 13, 1977, to Nov. 19, 1978, the Chiefs won two of 19 games.
Sunday afternoon at Arrowhead Stadium, the Chiefs ran their futility streak to 18 of their last 19…
Ok, well for what it’s worth, now you old fogies who like to drop the “Well, you don’t remember the ’80s!” line on 20-somethings like me technically can’t say crap now, can you? YAY FOR HISTORICALLY EPIC FAIL!
-cw
"If there’s a god he’s laughing at us and our football team." - Ben Folds
by webby37 on Nov 17, 2008 8:32 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Just To Defend The Fogies
Lanier’s probably been around the longest and he doesn’t use that line. :)
Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.
by UCrawford on Nov 17, 2008 8:33 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Mmmm...
I’ve had my share of “fans” use that old line. My point is that now, we’re statistically horrible! Like you can chart the feeling of shards of glass exiting a rectum that is a Chiefs season! Yay!
-cw
"If there’s a god he’s laughing at us and our football team." - Ben Folds
by webby37 on Nov 17, 2008 10:48 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
PS
Those “Fogies” aren’t even necessarily on this site—just in general!
-cw
"If there’s a god he’s laughing at us and our football team." - Ben Folds
by webby37 on Nov 17, 2008 10:48 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Understood :)
And I agree with you about the “bad old days” crowd. There’s no reason to believe your team is on the right track if your coach goes 1-15 in his third season (and the GM’s 19th).
Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.
by UCrawford on Nov 17, 2008 10:56 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
New plan for KC
HIV2Elway and I were talking at the game yesterday, and considering the current state of the Chiefs, we got a new plan. Chiefs should go for it on 4th down every time, go for 2 every time, onside kick every time. Chiefs look like a bad big -10 team, so why not? They should play like you do in Madden.
by C-7PumpkinSmasher on Nov 17, 2008 9:40 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
That
Would definitely make us a team that other teams would hate to play. Can’t say that it would make us successful, but other teams’ coaches would get ulcers doing the gameplanning for us. :)
Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.
by UCrawford on Nov 17, 2008 9:43 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
No one seems to have mentioned that the last-minute interception might have been a secret blessing.
Unlike the Bush administration, we found Usama!
-cw
"If there’s a god he’s laughing at us and our football team." - Ben Folds
by webby37 on Nov 17, 2008 10:56 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Theme song for the season
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SDfKSIGz0OE
(there’s a music stub at the beginning)
by Bleedingredandgold on Nov 17, 2008 12:28 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Well Clark has plenty of manure to work with ;)
Bill Parcell’s: "You are what your record says you are."
by THE_TRUTH on Nov 17, 2008 12:36 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
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