Chiefs Still Can't Put All of the Pieces Together
by Chris Thorman on Nov 16, 2008 3:10 PM CST
in 2008 Campaign
138 comments
via ESPN.com
Stats are here.
The Kansas City Chiefs played a solid game on offense. But they couldn't convert field goals to touchdowns near the goal line.
The defense, somehow, kept the Chiefs in the mix for most of the game but gave up a huge field goal with three and a half minutes left to put the Saints up two scores. The game was essentially over at that point.
That's four weeks in a row of much improved play from Kansas City. But no wins.
Here are a few reasons why we're being held back:
- Complete lack of a pass rush
- Special teams plays no part in aiding our offense and often sets up our opponents for short scores
- Inability to force our will on an opponent via the running game
- Back breaking plays, like Drew Brees' 47-yard pass to Lance Moore in the 3rd quarter and Mark Bradley's drop on 3rd down.
No easy answers here fans. We're still a long way from competing at a high level.
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Open topic: Does God hate the Chiefs' fanbase?
by Official Arrowhead Pride Parade on Nov 16, 2008 3:12 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Unlikely
Our team shows signs of hope. Other franchises, like Detroit and Oakland, will be in shambles forever.
by Joel Thorman on Nov 16, 2008 3:15 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
You absolutely positive about that?
Besides…who cares about other teams. So, as long as we’re not on the bottom of the compost heap it’s OK?
We’re still ugly on and off the field and things aren’t going to change anytime soon…not 1 or 2 years at least.
Bill Parcell’s: "You are what your record says you are."
by THE_TRUTH on Nov 16, 2008 3:22 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, but why the epic losses?
Competitive enough to make us keep watching.
by Official Arrowhead Pride Parade on Nov 16, 2008 3:17 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Wasn't fun
to watch last year. At all.
by Chris Thorman on Nov 16, 2008 3:18 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
3 quarters of excitement...
Ending in finding out that life is really a Marmaduke cartoon depressing
by Official Arrowhead Pride Parade on Nov 16, 2008 3:19 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
No he hates Herm!
He cost us any chance of winning by not going on the fourth and two. We went for it on fourth and long earlier in the game. He cannot manage a game to save his life!
by Eric Allen on Nov 16, 2008 3:14 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Villians:
- Damian Sackintosh
- Sackless D-Line
- Bradley’s Hands
In other news, Jack Harry is FLIPPING OUT on 810.
Banny being Banny.
by JobDDT on Nov 16, 2008 3:15 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Screaming about the coaching staff and how
“YOU CAN SAY WAT YOU WANT BUT I BLAME THIS ENTIRELY ON THE COACHES”
Banny being Banny.
by JobDDT on Nov 16, 2008 3:17 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Eh
That’s never been a good place to lay blame.
by Chris Thorman on Nov 16, 2008 3:19 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Villians
- Linebackers
Where were the blitzes?
by Bleedingredandgold on Nov 16, 2008 3:22 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
LJ Failing at the half yard mark?
by Official Arrowhead Pride Parade on Nov 16, 2008 3:15 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Yeah
When we talked about him coming back that’s what people pointed to. He’s a power back and would be useful on the goal line. Well, he wasn’t. Ugh!
by Joel Thorman on Nov 16, 2008 3:16 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
looked like he was waist deep into the end zone from the view we did have
by DLChiefs on Nov 16, 2008 3:22 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
That's the issue I have
where do they think the ball was, in his crotch?
by dkugler838 on Nov 16, 2008 3:26 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Officials..eh
We are 1-9 now, why not go on the 4th and two? I like our offense against their defense better than our defense against their offense.
by Eric Allen on Nov 16, 2008 3:22 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
just doesn't make sense
you have the #1 offense in the league – you absolutely HAVE to go for it there. Herm had better have a good explanation for this one b/c it’s unacceptable
by dkugler838 on Nov 16, 2008 3:27 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
He would have to explain
Just why, why in the hell he thought our defense would hold them. I know they held the Saints on the previous drive but the Saints had scored on the previous FIVE drives.
I’m starting to get worked up about that.
by Chris Thorman on Nov 16, 2008 3:32 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I am pissed too!
Imagine if that was actually an important game! His in-game decisions suck!
by Eric Allen on Nov 16, 2008 3:34 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Officials
How about them not calling a foul when they jumped on our QB again when he was down.
by DLChiefs on Nov 16, 2008 3:24 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Doesn't really affect how we played the game
by Chris Thorman on Nov 16, 2008 3:25 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed
We many bigger problems than officiating.
by Joel Thorman on Nov 16, 2008 3:28 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I am going to say it again...
This team will not win the big game under Herm Edwards! He has no guts, is way to conservative. They should end this at seasons end. He has had time to figure out how to manage a game and CANNOT do it.
by Eric Allen on Nov 16, 2008 3:28 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I find it funny
…our loses are looking better…whatever the hell that mean. I see some posts about beating NO this week and I just roll my eyes.
So we lost against the #1 offense that has a mediocre/weak defense and the improvement the last few games is visible? Gotcha.
Arrowhead is a ghost of what it once was and it’s going to be that way for a long long time. It used to be VERY hard for teams to come in here and play. Now teams look at the schedule and put a “W” in the column trying to mathematically figure what it’s going to take to get into the playoffs. The fact of the matter is that the talent, compounded with a “new” offense, and a defense that looks abysmal is “getting us bye”.
The coaching is trying to make ANY changes however comical to keep their jobs. Was that KU, MU or K-State I was watching on the field? Nice spread formation with the RB in the “I” and the QB in shotgun. It took NO a half to figure that one out. Oh yeah, KU, MU and K-State would’ve made that formation actually look good…in college.
Bill Parcell’s: "You are what your record says you are."
by THE_TRUTH on Nov 16, 2008 3:33 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Yep, I called a win.
This game was prime for the taking. N.O. had been playing bad on the road, had a beat up secondary, and we did not take advantage. I was very wrong!
by Eric Allen on Nov 16, 2008 3:39 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
You weren't the only one
So I don’t want to think I was picking on you. I wasn’t. You did the same thing that I did many of times. NO’s defense is mediocre at best and with our offense we did the best that we could.
Now OTOH their offense is a different story. Even with as many dropped balls they still always seemed to move the ball downfield. Shockey was horrible aside from a handful of catches.
Our defense wasn’t even a factor…I can’t recall seeing a QB with as much time as Brees.
Bill Parcell’s: "You are what your record says you are."
by THE_TRUTH on Nov 16, 2008 3:47 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
It's The Pass Rush
Whitlock noted before the season that it was going to be terrible, but I don’t think anyone envisioned that it would be the worst pass rush in the NFL since 1982 (when sack stats were kept). When you can’t sack the QB and generate consistent pressure you can’t win.
Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.
by UCrawford on Nov 16, 2008 3:50 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
New Orleans is a good side
I don’t think it was realistic to think we could beat them.
We did play well and put up good numbers in general. We gave them a short field too many times and left ourselves with a long field too many times.
LJ I think overall was a bust. Thigpen got to bad sacks thanks to LJ standing around watching guys rush past him. He looked slow when he had the ball and we wasted several downs on him going up the gut for a loss. Sure given a broken field he looked good but still slow. I see the red zone panic back when LJ is on offense.
Still impressed with Thigpen despite his first interception in 168 pass attempts. Though I am worried he was lofting out those floaty passes too much and should have stuck with hard flat throws.
I worry about Tony. But then who doesn’t.
Blame my wife!
by sir eccles on Nov 16, 2008 3:40 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
His INT
didn’t really reflect his passing. It was garbage time and he was throwing it up because it was his best option. I think he played well this week, for the most part.
by Ben S on Nov 16, 2008 3:43 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
It was also 4th down...but they shouldn't have been put in that position.
Had they gone for it the previous series, who knows what would have happened. We can’t depend on our defense to stop the offense and eat the clock.Period.
Bill Parcell’s: "You are what your record says you are."
by THE_TRUTH on Nov 16, 2008 3:49 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm agreeing with you
I was just pointing out that it was impressive to go so long without an int.
Blame my wife!
by sir eccles on Nov 16, 2008 3:49 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
All I know
is I’ll take 30-20 over 34-0 any day of the week, and twice on sunday.
by Ben S on Nov 16, 2008 3:46 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Are you serious?
A loss is a loss!
by Eric Allen on Nov 16, 2008 3:47 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Eric, Dude..
…don’t even try…just let it go. I’ve been down that path before and some are happy just that there are 53 men on the field and it’s not blacked out. This is why there were years of sold out games…mediocrity was acceptable.
Bill Parcell’s: "You are what your record says you are."
by THE_TRUTH on Nov 16, 2008 3:52 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I've been asking the same thing man...I've been asking the same thing.
Bill Parcell’s: "You are what your record says you are."
by THE_TRUTH on Nov 16, 2008 3:52 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
When Carl And Herm Are Fired
It’s not like the team’s cursed. It’s that the team has been run by the same guy for almost 20 years and he hasn’t gotten any better at his job over that time…evidenced by his hiring of a team-killing coach who can’t manage a game.
Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.
by UCrawford on Nov 16, 2008 3:54 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe from the standpoint of a fan
However, whether people will accept it or not, a team learns a lot more from a loss as opposed to a win. I know some famous coach has a good quote about this…
by Ben S on Nov 16, 2008 3:48 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Read my sig. I'll take Parcells over that coach.
Bill Parcell’s: "You are what your record says you are."
by THE_TRUTH on Nov 16, 2008 3:53 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Along the lines of...
You learn a line from a win, a book from a loss.
by Ben S on Nov 16, 2008 3:50 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Really, we see Herm make the same mistakes he made in NY where he gained this reputation of bad decision making.
He just keeps doing it. I believe the players are learning, and I like the progress some of the players are making. But, the amount of progress may have been made under any coach.
The only time Herm decides to be flexible is when he’s coaching for his job, not because it is what the situation dictates. And as soon as he has some breathing room, he reverts to the philosophy that doesn’t work.
He wants the NFL of the 70s. He hasn’t recognized that you have to have an All-Pro team to even hope to be successful with that style now.
He is doing exactly what he did in NY. They called him out on it. We have to sit through it.
by DThomasReigns on Nov 16, 2008 3:57 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
And Herm Always Seems To Necessitate The Writing Of A New One
All we’re really learning from the losses is that Herm’s tactically inept and can’t figure out a way for his team to win. That’s it.
Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.
by UCrawford on Nov 16, 2008 3:55 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Well we should have
learned alot over the last two seasons! Herm is a joke, we will never be a consistent winner under him!
by Eric Allen on Nov 16, 2008 3:50 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Turning the Corner
I think we are almost there. I really think that with the return of a few key defensive players(DJ, Flowers, Hali), by the end of the season, we will see a team that is average-good, as opposed to the atrocious-horrible that we have seen for the last year and half. These injuries have allowed us to find players like Thigpen and weed other players out as not being able to cut it in the NFL.
Our offense finally has some young skill players with a future, and the offensive line is at least half-ready to compete, the right side can be fixed with a nice FA (Think Jake Scott or Justin Hartwig)and a solid draft pick in the offseason, and maybe even a young center in the later rounds of the draft. With a few deft offseason moves, Carl Peterson should be able to put this team in the driver’s seat in the AFC West and be a bona-fide Superbowl Contender.
And as for Herm being to conservative, the man lost the game last weekend by going for 2 when a field goal would have sent it to overtime! What more do you want for aggressiveness? Hail Mary’s on every play?
by ArrowheadRed5658 on Nov 16, 2008 3:59 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Yeah and today he punted on a fourth and 2
and gave it back to the NUMBER ONE OFFENSE IN THE LEAGUE! Our defense is horrible, and you put the game in their hands? We went for a fourth and long earlier in the game.
by Eric Allen on Nov 16, 2008 4:02 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
True, but...
He also went for it in the first quarter on a fourth and short for the very same reason…going for it on every fourth and short is borderline reckless if not totally insane. This isn’t Madden, you have to pick your spots.
by ArrowheadRed5658 on Nov 16, 2008 4:06 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
We are 1-9 hello
We are not losing much by going for it.
by Eric Allen on Nov 16, 2008 4:07 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Just because
We have a bad record thus far doesn’t mean we should let it influence our decision making and have us make more bad decisions. That’s just compounding things and making it worse. You have to ignore sunk costs (i.e. the already lost games), and make the best decision going forward.
by ArrowheadRed5658 on Nov 16, 2008 4:08 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Also,
If we would have gone for it at that point, New Orleans would have gotten the ball on our 40 and would have already been in field goal range. We ended up pinning them on the punt, if I remember correctly, sometimes you just have to let your defense play.
by ArrowheadRed5658 on Nov 16, 2008 4:07 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Either way
We still pinned them deep, and ended up getting the ball back, right? You’ll have to forgive my lack of game knowledge, I was following it on GameTracker at work, I only got to watch the first quarter before I had to leave.
Also, even after this loss, I’m still wearing my Chiefs jersey today, AND I LIVE IN NEW ORLEANS!
by ArrowheadRed5658 on Nov 16, 2008 4:13 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Red, no problem. But they marched down the field and kicked a FG on that drive after the punt - sealing the game.
by DThomasReigns on Nov 16, 2008 4:15 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
No they drove down the field on us.
by Eric Allen on Nov 16, 2008 4:15 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
However
The Chiefs teams of the past may have had no problem gaining 2 to 3 yards with LJ, because they were very run oriented. I think we all may be used to the 3-5 yards and a cloud of dust that we used to employ when we were successful. It seems like this new offense isn’t as consistent with the short gains and marching down the field, but is more pass-oriented, so the bruising style of old that would be great for 4th and short may not be this team’s style. It seems like we are falling into a Philadelphia mode, relying more on 6-8 yard short passes and draws for gains, although they aren’t as consistent. Whatever though, we still lost, but our future is bright!
by ArrowheadRed5658 on Nov 16, 2008 4:20 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
So Herms game
Management is suddenly going to change? I do not see a very bright future with Herm.
by Eric Allen on Nov 16, 2008 4:23 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
But either way,
you should be hoping for two things.
1) A loss provides ammo for the case of firing Herm
2)A loss that helps our draft position, which is what I am hoping for.
Why would you even want a win at this point? Sure it is enjoyable, but does it really matter? All it does at this point is hurt our draft position, not to mention help Herm keep his job (for all the Herm haters out there). We aren’t winning the superbowl this year. Heck, we don’t have a fair shot at the playoffs. Right now all a win would do is make us feel better about our week.
Honestly, I enjoy a loss of a close game because 1 or 2 years down the line, we will become a dominant team. Look at the Chargers. They became a dominant force in the AFC, even though they had a conservative HC with Shotty.
All I am saying is chill out. Actually, to use some Pulp Fiction in everyday life “Bitch be cool!”. Sam Jackson might even say, “Tell her to chilll!”. Most people on hear these days just come on to complain and blame a loss on this and that. What does that do? Nothing. Absolutely nothing. My advice is next time you watch a Chiefs game, double your alcohol consumption, because that will do as much good as making everyone on this site listen to complaints day in and day out.
by Ben S on Nov 16, 2008 3:59 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
I have not said much lately.
But this crap will not cut it!
by Eric Allen on Nov 16, 2008 4:06 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
If not Herm..
Then who else?
by ArrowheadRed5658 on Nov 16, 2008 4:10 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I do not know
But Herm is clearly not the answer. Get a new GM, let him pick.
by Eric Allen on Nov 16, 2008 4:11 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
A plus to having more wins
If all else, is having Tony G finishing his career as a Chief
by KansasCityShuffle on Nov 16, 2008 10:11 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
yea herm is a retard..he’ll go for it on fourth and 1 on our side of the field but wont go for it on the saints forty god wat a douchebag!!!
by kcchiefsfan56 on Nov 16, 2008 4:04 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Everyone applauded
when we punted late in the game last week and it worked…
I am amazed by how much the posts change after the game compared to before the game.
by ashleylat on Nov 16, 2008 4:11 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
There was defensive confusion all game.
Yet you want the game in their hands, SD is a better defense than NO.
by Eric Allen on Nov 16, 2008 4:13 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
There was 12 minutes to go
I can understand why Herm punted in that situation especially after you D just got a 3 and out.
by ashleylat on Nov 16, 2008 4:23 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
How many three
and outs had our defense forced? I like our offense against their defense, better than our defense against their offense.
by Eric Allen on Nov 16, 2008 4:25 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
2
I understand your point and I agree. I would have much rather had them go for it instead of punting but I understood why Herm punted. The point I was making is that is what Herm does. He believes his D can get a stop, like last week, so he plays into that.
It’s a big deal now but should it be? If Fox has another camera on the goal line is LJ’s carry a TD? Probably. If Bradley caught that pass does it matter? No. If LJ pounded the line of scrimmage inside the 5 instead of pussy footing around is this a moot point? Absolutely.
It’s easy to blame Herm here it really is…but for the past 4 games he has put the team in the position to win and they failed to execute. Now he may have made a bad decision but it’s because the lack of execution on the field magnified those decisions.
by ashleylat on Nov 16, 2008 4:32 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
His decision to
Put the pussy foot runner in those situations. Bradley has been lights out for us, he was due a key drop.
by Eric Allen on Nov 16, 2008 4:46 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
So players are never, ever accountable?
It’s all Herm all the time?
by ashleylat on Nov 16, 2008 5:22 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Actually Yes
He oversees the practices. He leads the coaching staff meetings. He makes the call who is ready to play, who’s going to sit (i.e. LJ) and who’s going to be called up from the practice squad.
He also has some say-so with acquiring FA’s (although Carl does the signing).
Herm evaluates the talent before, during and after the game. If he doesn’t like how a player is playing and he put the player on the “active” list, he should pull him.
Players are accountable for playing well until they get pulled for playing poorly.
Bill Parcell’s: "You are what your record says you are."
by THE_TRUTH on Nov 16, 2008 5:29 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm sure Herm preached and preached
for Larry to tippy toe around the goal line. I’m sure he also coached Bradley into dropping the pass. He probably also coached McGraw how to wrap up on the screen play as well how for Colquit to punt this week. I can hear Herm, “Hey Dust try this instead today”.
I’m wrong. It’s all Herms fault. He’s a horrible person and a horrible coach. Boo Herm boo.
by ashleylat on Nov 16, 2008 5:38 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
He is a horrible coach, may not be a bad person.
He should be a d-backs coach, he was never even a coordinator before his Jets gig. He has no clue about offense, cannot manage the clock, and wants to ram a cover two down the throats of players who may not be capable of producing in it. Oh yeah we have five wins since the beginning of the 07 season, yep great coach.
by Eric Allen on Nov 16, 2008 5:44 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
It's funny that before the game you said we would put up 42
Now that we lose Herm is horrible.
by ashleylat on Nov 16, 2008 6:58 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Just To Be Clear
Eric’s been very consistent in calling Herm horrible the entire season (a position I wholeheartedly agree with). He just had some optimism that maybe the team would be good enough in this game to overcome Herm’s incompetence. I suspect he’ll be a bit more guarded with that optimism in the future. :)
Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.
by UCrawford on Nov 16, 2008 7:10 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yep.
Woke up excited, thought this is the week we shake this losing funk. We had a team that is bad on the road, that was beat up, and without a few key guys so what the hell. Will not happen again this season.
by Eric Allen on Nov 16, 2008 7:15 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I predicted a win too
We still have too many injuries on D. I’m not sold on Herm but I haven’t given up on him either.
by ashleylat on Nov 16, 2008 7:25 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I have never liked the hire.
With that being said, at the beginning of the season, with the addition of new players, the addition of Chan, I predicted 10-6. I thought we would sneak up on some teams. I have completely given up on Herm as a HC. I hope things will change this offseason, but I do not know if they will.
by Eric Allen on Nov 16, 2008 7:40 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Eric...agreed
I took Clark by his word that we would be competitive and that we should’ve been in conenttion for the playoffs as well as improving.
Course some might argue with all the injuries…blah, blah,blah.
Bill Parcell’s: "You are what your record says you are."
by THE_TRUTH on Nov 16, 2008 8:41 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
B.S.
Injuries don’t account for most of the crap playcalling. Even when the Chiefs start performing competently in one area (passing) Herm still finds a way to cost them the game with his playcalling (that last punt…which was a ridiculously bad call considering how bad our defense is).
Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.
by UCrawford on Nov 16, 2008 11:32 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
And
I’m not calling what you’re saying b.s., Truth…just the injury excuse.
Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.
by UCrawford on Nov 16, 2008 11:33 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Understood
I was jsut trying to point out the BS excuses that’ll be used by Herm end of seasona dn that will be one of them to keep his job Mark my words.
Bill Parcell’s: "You are what your record says you are."
by THE_TRUTH on Nov 17, 2008 8:08 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Oh, I'm Sure It Will Be
I’m betting that there will be a lot of reasons given for losing…none of which will be “I made some really crappy playcalls because I didn’t want to look stupid if I took a risk and lost.”
Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.
by UCrawford on Nov 17, 2008 10:01 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Guess you believed in Croyle, then
Big time. You thought he had the nuts, the brains, and the durability. You drank the Croyle koolaid.
The reality, of course, was that the Chiefs didn’t have a QB worthy of the name until Thiggy got tossed into the fray for the /second/ time.
Toss into the mix that this is not only the oungest team in the league, and that it has been decimated by injuries, and none of that matters. All Herm’s fault.
The talent we are finding? No credit. The improvments we are gtting? Nope.
We SUCK, SUCK, SUCK, and it’s all on Herm. Fire him, and Carl, and we’re golden – we’ll just hire, I dunno – Matt Millen?
Look at the gripes, fer chrissake! It used to be R-R-P-Punt that peoople were bitching about! Now we are doing a lot of different things, and Herm gets crucified for not going for it on 4th and semi-short for the 3rd time in the game!
Jesus, if Herm walked on water tomorrow, y’all’d bitch that Herm can’t swim!
Look, Herm need to learn some things, sure enough. He ain’t perfect
he’s not even top-flight in the league. But cut the man a little slack, willya?
by Bleedingredandgold on Nov 17, 2008 3:59 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Look, Herm need to learn some things, sure enough. He ain’t perfect
he’s not even top-flight in the league. But cut the man a little slack, willya?
No…you said it yourself, he’s not even top flight. He had plenty of slack and his play calling is abhorrent. And if you want to blame Chan or Gun, fine blame them too…but Herm has final say.
The problem is that he never takes responsibility for anything related to the team.
And as far as the kool-aid…kepp drinking it and wear the rose colored glasses. With this current mgmt. the status quo will never change and we’ll always be mediocre.
Bill Parcell’s: "You are what your record says you are."
by THE_TRUTH on Nov 17, 2008 8:12 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
You're Wrong
Big time. You thought he had the nuts, the brains, and the durability. You drank the Croyle koolaid.
None of the people you just responded to (Eric, Truth or me) liked Croyle. As I recall we all thought he was a terrible choice to run the team.
But somebody did like Croyle…Herm. So screw giving him any slack.
We SUCK, SUCK, SUCK, and it’s all on Herm. Fire him, and Carl, and we’re golden – we’ll just hire, I dunno – Matt Millen?
You know what the saddest thing is about Herm apologists? That they seriously seem to think there’s not a chance that this team could find anyone better to run them than Matt Millen. That’s how pathetic the mindset has gotten about this team under Herm and Carl…a lot of the fans are convinced that Herm and Carl are as good as it can possibly get.
You’ll forgive me if I don’t choose to hop on the pity pot and assume that KC is somehow cursed to find only bad coaches and GMs. I, unlike many Herm apologists, don’t view Chiefs fans as inherent losers.
Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.
by UCrawford on Nov 17, 2008 10:10 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I didn't adress any one person there
Just the entire “Fire Herm” bandwagon. You want him gone, yuo’d better come up with a believable replacement, though.
And no, I am not an apologist for Edwards, either, the way you assume. The Raiders cut Kiffin loose mid-stream – are they better for it? Will they be better next year?
Face facts. If Herm Sucks, and Vermeil sucked, and Cunningham sucked, and Marty sucked – they all have one thing in common. You think the same guy is gonna find a savior in mid-season?
Herm’s biggest problem is that he appears to have stopped learning the game, when he started teaching it. If he showed signs of learning, I’d be OK with him. Not on fire, but OK.
But ultimately, Herm is not the real problem, and you (oughta) know it.
by Bleedingredandgold on Nov 19, 2008 3:44 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Now you are being ridiculous ashley
It’s not a conspiracy that he would intentionally lose the game. It is a fact that he doesn’t know how to put a game plan together to win consistently. My sig. says it all. I seem to recall that Miami was 1-15 last year and they never used “rebuilding” as an excuse however with all the changes they are leaps and bounds better then us.
Could their GM be responsible for that? Hmmm…says something about having someone competent to run the org. and get a coach and playing staff with a common goal.
Bill Parcell’s: "You are what your record says you are."
by THE_TRUTH on Nov 16, 2008 8:40 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
were they the oldest team in the league last year?
Oh, I know! They can’t be that good, because Pennington was a Herm QB, and therefore, he sucks!
Whatever it is, it’s because Herm sucks! there’s NO other reason. The only problem the Chiefs have is that Herm SUCKS!
Without Herm, we’d be Superbowl contenders! Just like we were under Dick Vermeil! LOL!
by Bleedingredandgold on Nov 17, 2008 4:05 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Wow..
…pretty simple points without an basis for your argument. Typical uniformed fan. There have been plenty of posts both pro and con for Herm.
I never liked Pennington…he got hurt a lot (had a glass chin)…does that remind you of another QB that Herm hired? How about the vocal support to the media he gave Huard or Thigpen when they stepped in and did well….none. Great HC there…lol.
Then he acts real tough and benches LJ (like he’s pulling rank…lol and nobody in the locker takes him serious) but when it comes to the play calling he’s abyssmal and loses at least a couple of games on purely crap calls from the sideline.
Keep drinking the kool-aid…after they bleed the red and gold out of you they’ll keep you around till they bleed all the green out of your wallet…lol
Here he is. “Come my sheep I will lead you”:
Bill Parcell’s: "You are what your record says you are."
by THE_TRUTH on Nov 17, 2008 8:19 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
"Nobody in the locker room takes him seriously"
Herm was voted 4th in the league by the players at the coach they would most want to play for…yet know one takes him seriously?
by ashleylat on Nov 17, 2008 8:27 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
You'll Note
That Gruden, Belichick, and Coughlin were all on the list of coaches that players would least like to play for. So what that poll would appear demonstrate is that some players would rather have a coach who doesn’t make them work too hard rather than a coach who can get them a championship ring.
And I say screw those kind of players.
Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.
by UCrawford on Nov 17, 2008 10:14 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Absolutely UC
Bill Parcell’s: "You are what your record says you are."
by THE_TRUTH on Nov 17, 2008 10:16 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
How do you know what kind of practices they run?
How do you know so much about the locker room?
by ashleylat on Nov 17, 2008 11:03 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Been there at times...
it’s all about who you know. But aside from that, there are plenty of opportunities for Chiefs fans to watch practices and even tour Arrowhead.
River Falls is very nice in the summer.
Bill Parcell’s: "You are what your record says you are."
by THE_TRUTH on Nov 17, 2008 11:16 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Make them feel good Hermie
Bill Parcell’s: "You are what your record says you are."
by THE_TRUTH on Nov 17, 2008 12:29 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Because Coughlin's, Belichick's, and Gruden's Habits Are Well-Documented
Coughlin had to actually lighten up last year to get the best out of his team (although he was still a successful coach before that).
If you’ll look at the article you cited, you’ll also find that Herm’s high position in that rating can be at least partially attributed to a racial bias. 67% of respondents in the poll were black and black players were the only voting demographic that put Herm in the top five (although why they put him above Tomlin I’ve got no clue because Tomlin’s been a pretty good coach so far…probably because of his relatively short career). Belichick was the only white coach that the black players as a group put in their top five.
Like I said, the poll’s a popularity contest…not an objective rating of how good or bad any of those coaches are (although I do agree that Dungy appears to be the best mixture of competence and good player relations out of all coaches…which is how the players voted).
Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.
by UCrawford on Nov 17, 2008 11:18 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm just making a point
People are against Herm. No matter what he does he’s wrong and no matter what happens it’s always, I mean always his fault. My point is this…the coach can only do so much. It’s up to the players to execute. You can lead a horse to water but…you know the rest. This team doesn’t have the talent to go 10-6..hell to go 6-10. Maybe only 4-5 times this year will they be better than the team across from them. That is not Herm’s fault. He may be a contributing factor but it’s not ALL his fault.
Can’t put a game plan together? It’s freaking Martyball minus the talent. How many times did Marty punt the ball so the defense could win the game? The talent is not there or they are too inexperienced.
Is he a good coach? Yes. Great? No. Did I like the hire? No. Do I like his in game decision making? No. Ability to make halftime adjustments? Hell no. Does he have the tools in place to win? No. Is he hindering the development of young players? No. is he helping the development of young players? Yes…he’s letting them play.
I’m not a Dolphins fan so I can’t say if the Dolphins used rebuilding as an excuse or not. However they were a year off of their horrible run and immortality last year before they started playing leaps and bounds better than us.
by ashleylat on Nov 17, 2008 8:25 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
So get rid of the horse and get a better one.
Plenty of choices for horses and whose fault is that? The players aren’t paying to play…they are acquired and whose fault is that in the end?
You might not be able to make the horse drink, but you can put him out to pasture and get one that will.
Bill Parcell’s: "You are what your record says you are."
by THE_TRUTH on Nov 17, 2008 8:43 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I Don't Get Your Thinking On This
Is he a good coach? Yes. Great? No. Did I like the hire? No. Do I like his in game decision making? No. Ability to make halftime adjustments? Hell no. Does he have the tools in place to win? No. Is he hindering the development of young players? No. is he helping the development of young players? Yes…he’s letting them play.
You think he’s a good coach but you hate how he does almost all of the important things he’s responsible for? How, exactly, is he helping young players improve when he can’t manage a game, make smart decisions, gameplan effectively or make halftime adjustments? By writing them into the lineup and letting them play? Hell, any of us could do that…it’s the easiest part of the coach’s job. The part we need is a coach who can show a team how to win consistently and Herm hasn’t demonstrated yet that he can do that.
Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.
by UCrawford on Nov 17, 2008 10:18 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Ultimately it's wins and losses
But all the players on this team, especially the younger players are better off as players as well as people because Herm Edwards was their coach. For me that’s what was orchestrated by that survey by the NFL players.
by ashleylat on Nov 17, 2008 11:26 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
How Are They Better Off As Players When They Can't Win Football Games?
Seriously…that’s a non-sequitur. Football players are paid to perform at a level that allows their team to win games. Their team isn’t winning games and a significant number of core players on this team haven’t progressed individually. They’re not getting better as players simply because Herm writes them into the lineup every week…or at least that doesn’t make them any better than any jackass capable of writing their names could make them. And as far as I can tell that’s about the extent of what Herm does for their development…he writes them into the lineup each week then gives them a gameplan that usually falls short. That’s not a coach doing player development, that’s a coach who’s just going through the motions of it.
Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.
by UCrawford on Nov 17, 2008 11:35 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
69% of the people on the survey
Say that the team is moving in the right direction. Blind squirrel finding a nut?
by ashleylat on Nov 17, 2008 11:58 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Who Knows
Polls should generally wait until Wednesday or Thursday. But opinions on the season are fickle…a month ago opinion was overwhelming to hang Herm and Carl. Let’s see that poll by the end of the year if Herm doesn’t pull out some wins.
Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.
by UCrawford on Nov 17, 2008 2:13 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Very True
Lot of mood swings for KC fans. the Royals message boards are always the best…3 straight wins and we can win the wild card…3 straight losses and everyone sucks.
by ashleylat on Nov 17, 2008 2:19 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I'd Thought About Doing Up Some Polls To Post Weekly
Work kind of caught up with me, but I thought it would have been interesting to track the pattern over the course of the entire season to see how opinions swing and why. Probably too late to resurrect that right now…it’s a project best started and maintained from the beginning of the season.
Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.
by UCrawford on Nov 17, 2008 2:31 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I said I'd give them till
next year. Course I had the deck stacked since I knew the schedule for ’09 before it was discussed.
Bill Parcell’s: "You are what your record says you are."
by THE_TRUTH on Nov 17, 2008 2:28 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Good news
Cincinatti picks up the tie, which would put us 2nd place overall in next years draft if the season ended today
by Vince D on Nov 16, 2008 4:24 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
We need a thread to list our assets.
We’ve got some surprise players coming out of this season – Bradley, Thigpen, and some others. C’mon, y’all – what unexpected gems do /you/ see?
by Bleedingredandgold on Nov 16, 2008 5:50 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Bradley, Thigpen
Boiman is playing pretty well, Carr is better than we expected a 5th round pick to play. Jon McGraw has played well when called upon. Branden Albert a lifelong Chief I hope.
by Eric Allen on Nov 16, 2008 5:56 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Wins
I hate it when people on chastise winning this season. Winning and improvement lend credibility to our rebuilding project and show that it is working. If we finish out the season 3-3, we still have a 4-12 record and a very high(probably top 5) draft pick AND something to build on going into next year. Whereas tanking and going 1-15 probably assures us the top pick, but at the cost of losing fans, ticket sales, revenue and causing top flight free agents that might have considered signing here to go elsewhere. Seriously, if you were a young, top flight free agent that could take a team to the next level, would you sign with a rebuilding team that just finished a 1-15 season and has the #1 pick, or would you sign with a young team that has shown it has improved consistently, finished the season strong and is almost ready to compete?
by ArrowheadRed5658 on Nov 16, 2008 6:32 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Keep in mind that Carl makes the contracts
…so getting them in the first place to discuss $$$ is a reach. He’ll use LJ as an excuse and not want to pay.
Bill Parcell’s: "You are what your record says you are."
by THE_TRUTH on Nov 16, 2008 8:43 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Game
Someone threw up on my back while i was watching the chiefs lose at Arrowhead so i think my day was worse than any of yours.
by skibum1537 on Nov 16, 2008 8:14 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Wow!
In the stands? That’s pretty terrible man.
by Joel Thorman on Nov 16, 2008 8:19 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
L.Johnson
Anyone notice the attitude of LJ? He shouldn’t of even been in the game. All it is going to do is hurt the young guys. I believed this actually hurt Thigpen’s confidence, or just aggravated it. i.e. the communication between the two after failed runs near the endzone.
by NewtofKC on Nov 17, 2008 12:44 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
well, I saw him pass-block
Maybe he’ll learn. Maybe he watched toight’s game, where the announcers kept talking abut how both RB’s were good pass-blockers. One can hope
by Bleedingredandgold on Nov 17, 2008 4:07 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
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