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Around SBN: Ohio State And Florida Target 2013 Receiver Recruits

KC Star Lays off 50

The only reason I post this here is because 1 of the 50 is rumored to be  Jeffrey Flanagan from the 'Top of the Mornin' column in the paper.  It's a very, very sad day for the Kansas City Sports Community. 

from the KC Star:

"Calling 2008 “one of the most challenging years in Star history,” Publisher Mark Zieman said in a memo to employees that the newspaper had “taken a number of extraordinary steps to keep The Star safe during this harsh economic downturn, and to buffer this great newspaper against future financial pressures.”

http://www.kansascity.com/382/story/883602.html

Without a doubt it's a new era in journalism and reporting.  Newspapers are stuggling to adapt to the economic turmoil facing the nation but also the propenisity for individuals like us to get our news from other sources rather than print.  After all how many times have we read something from Flanagan on AP or kansascity.com rather than an actual printed newspaper?  I would say it'll be interesting to see how the print media adapts to the challenges facing them but unfortunately I see it being more saddening than interesting.

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of Arrowhead Pride's writers or editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of Arrowhead Pride writers or editors.

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The only difference

Between AP and the MSM is access. Beat writers spend a lot of time with these guys. They’re the ones getting the quotes. They’re the ones in the locker room after the game. For bloggers, the Star is a necessity.

by Joel Thorman on Nov 11, 2008 8:31 AM CST reply actions  

I disagree 110%

I admire and respect the amount of time that you guys put in to AP but by just saying ‘access’ undermines the blood, sweat and tears that journalists put in on a daily basis. While you use Google news to find the stories we read the print journalist write the stories. I have a very good friend from college who is a sports reporter for a major newspaper in the Midwest. He routinely puts in 50-60 hours watching, reporting and looking for stories. There is a difference and it’s not just access.

What percentage of stuff that comes on AP is original content? What percent of stuff that goes in the KC Star is original content?

Would you consider your best post to be print worthy? I may be taking that wrong but I read that as in your spare time, you believe your level of writing talent and skill is just as good as people who get paid to do this for a living.

By no means am I trying to demean AP or what you guys do here. I love news from all angles as well as the your input but there is a difference between the Star and AP and it’s not just access.

by ashleylat on Nov 11, 2008 8:56 AM CST up reply actions  

Well put ashleylat

They’re professionals who get paid to cover a team. We do this as a hobby. Huge difference.

by Chris Thorman on Nov 11, 2008 9:28 AM CST up reply actions  

No disrespect Chris

You guys do a great job. I come here before I got to the star for chiefs news. I imagine most people do.

by ashleylat on Nov 11, 2008 9:34 AM CST up reply actions  

Two different roles

We’re an online community. The Star is reporting facts as a newspaper.

We’re not competing. People check lots of different sources online for their Chiefs info.

by Chris Thorman on Nov 11, 2008 9:40 AM CST up reply actions  

Chris...you should have put: "facts" in quotes ;-)

Just keep matriculating the ball down the field boys.

by THE_TRUTH on Nov 11, 2008 9:41 AM CST up reply actions  

What I mean

Is that they’re able to put the blood, sweat and tears into a story because they have access.

by Joel Thorman on Nov 11, 2008 9:41 AM CST up reply actions  

You are taking it wrong :)
I may be taking that wrong but I read that as in your spare time, you believe your level of writing talent and skill is just as good as people who get paid to do this for a living.

We put our own twist on what newspapers write. We get all of our information from them. Without them, a place like AP isn’t much (which is why I said the Star is a necessity for bloggers).

But what I mean by the only difference is access is that there are certainly bloggers out there who are as good or better than writers at the Star but they don’t have the access they do. I’m not saying AP is one of them, I’m trying to point out one of the biggest differences between the two.

by Joel Thorman on Nov 11, 2008 9:47 AM CST up reply actions  

And We're Also More Directly Accountable To The People Who Read What We Write

Whenever we put out a column online, we usually have to be able to defend what we write to the people who read it. Journalists don’t often have to do that…their contact with their audience is limited (often by choice). I do agree that the worst newspaper journalist is certainly better than the worst Internet blogger (mainly because literacy is a key requirement to being a journalist) but the best bloggers are as good as the best writers for any newspaper or publication. It’s mainly just a matter of access, as Primetime and Chris have noted.

But it’s too bad about Flanagan if he got let go…I do like his column.

Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.

by UCrawford on Nov 11, 2008 9:58 AM CST up reply actions  

I think it's coming down to convenience for the reader

we are always on the run…

"But what do I know, I’m like an empty room with a large ECHO"

by Lanier63 on Nov 11, 2008 2:34 PM CST up reply actions  

And

There are full-time bloggers that do put in those hours. Guys like Orson Swindle from EDSBS and Brian Cook from MGoBlog do put in those hours and it reflects in their work.

by Joel Thorman on Nov 11, 2008 10:01 AM CST up reply actions  

True as well

By the way, did you know the BlogPoll (the college blogger weekly top 25) is listed on CBS Sports now?

by Chris Thorman on Nov 11, 2008 10:02 AM CST up reply actions  

Blogs Are The Future Of Journalism

They’re cheaper, easier to run, anyone can have one, and they aren’t wholly dependent on revenue…so they have a lot of advantages over print media. Right now they’re still in their relative infancy, so the wheat hasn’t yet been separated from the chaff, so to speak…but as we go further in you’ll find that the good bloggers will separate themselves from the illiterate masses and will eventually be considered as viable a part of journalism as anyone writing for a paper.

After all, it wasn’t that long ago that television was considered just a shallow upstart to print journalism…just a passing fad. The same things that were being said about broadcast journalism (short on context, intellectually unserious, wasteland for failed writers) is being said now about blogging.

Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.

by UCrawford on Nov 11, 2008 10:11 AM CST up reply actions  

I know we dont pay

but I’d love to have him here!

"But what do I know, I’m like an empty room with a large ECHO"

by Lanier63 on Nov 11, 2008 8:37 AM CST reply actions  

Flanny is gone

This was reported yesterday on 610 by Teicher

Just keep matriculating the ball down the field boys.

by THE_TRUTH on Nov 11, 2008 9:15 AM CST reply actions  

That's A Shame

Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.

by UCrawford on Nov 11, 2008 10:13 AM CST up reply actions  

Ditto

Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.

by UCrawford on Nov 11, 2008 10:44 AM CST up reply actions  

I come here first.

The reason is, by the time I am on here, somebody has already posted the information that is worthy Chiefs news. Also it is my homepage so I have no choice but to see it :)

Indecision is the key to flexibility

by cmpotter on Nov 11, 2008 12:01 PM CST reply actions  

Need to

Need to keep Flanagan, and layoff Whitlock

by DLChiefs on Nov 11, 2008 12:05 PM CST reply actions  

Agreed

Although I make an exception for the Wall Street Journal because it’s just a good publication, or at least it was…I’m less of a fan since Murdoch took it over because the content has been subtly shifting from more or less pure free market advocacy to a slightly more neoconservative stance (or at least that’s the impression I got). I liked the WSJ primarily because it was the best source out there on economic issues, but now it seems to be pushing a bit more towards rabble rousing and I think it hurts the overall content. More of a fan of “The Economist” these days.

Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.

by UCrawford on Nov 11, 2008 12:58 PM CST up reply actions  

Agreed

You can find a lot of that info you just have to look for it………I guess it makes more sense for the WSJ or “The Economist” because it has what you need in one publication.

Indecision is the key to flexibility

by cmpotter on Nov 11, 2008 1:06 PM CST up reply actions  

Pretty Much

And I do “Foreign Affairs” as well even though their online archived stuff is free, because I’ll actually re-read their magazine’s articles. In fact, I think that Foreign Affairs is the only publication I subscribe to where I get a physical copy of the publication (I don’t get the hard copy of the WSJ). I used to get Newsweek but that was just a gift from someone and I let the subscription lapse because it was such a pointless publication except for George Will’s column, and I got ESPN The Magazine because I subscribe to ESPN Insider (although I often just threw the magazine straight in the garbage because it was mainly fluff except for the fantasy tips).

Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.

by UCrawford on Nov 11, 2008 1:19 PM CST up reply actions  

I think every subscription of any publication

I have received in the last five years has been a gift. ESPN the magazine being one of those is truely fluff. The only thing in SI I liked were Rick Reilly’s column at the end and the college coverage during preseason.

Indecision is the key to flexibility

by cmpotter on Nov 11, 2008 1:46 PM CST reply actions  

This sucks.

I really liked Over the Top and reading his articles on the radio and TV broadcasters the day after the game.

Over the Top is already down.

Keep your chin up, Flanny! We support you.

by DThomasReigns on Nov 11, 2008 2:00 PM CST reply actions  

Agreed

Wonder what he’s going to do.

by Joel Thorman on Nov 11, 2008 2:22 PM CST up reply actions  

We need a "Flanny to AP" front page campaign!

These are just random thoughts/suggestions:

He could have his own sub-section on the site.

How awesome would it be if he maintained his press credentials/Chiefs access and wrote for AP?

He keeps writing the way he did before and keeps his name out there. Kind of a Free Agent signing a deal mid-season in order to “audition” for other teams.

We could pay him with 100 recommendations of his posts, every post. :) or Beer Gloves.

Most importantly, he would have a place to do what he loves and a community that supports him.

by DThomasReigns on Nov 11, 2008 2:29 PM CST up reply actions  

Not a bad idea

He could easily post his normal stuff here until he gets a new gig.

by Chris Thorman on Nov 11, 2008 2:35 PM CST up reply actions  

I'd Be Completely Down With That

And I think that people who post here regularly (myself definitely included) could learn a lot from him about better writing and research skills. Increasing the talent level like that raises the bar for everyone.

Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.

by UCrawford on Nov 11, 2008 2:44 PM CST up reply actions  

Here's his Star email address:

jflanagan@kcstar.com

I don’t know if it is still active. If it is it may not be active for much longer.

by DThomasReigns on Nov 11, 2008 2:51 PM CST up reply actions  

The PARADE Abides

Also, we might point out that SI regularly “syndicates” the AP on their website, not to mention the PARADEBULATION.

by Official Arrowhead Pride Parade on Nov 11, 2008 3:03 PM CST reply actions  

Willie retired = not looking for a job

Besides, 99% of us contribute to AP for free because we love the Chiefs. What’s to say Flanny wouldn’t want to do the same?

by DThomasReigns on Nov 11, 2008 3:23 PM CST up reply actions  

Agreed

I doubt he’d be interested in writing for AP as a full-time job. Chris isn’t quick to dole out all that sweet blogging cheese he earns. :)

Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.

by UCrawford on Nov 11, 2008 3:27 PM CST up reply actions  

Wait

Chris, where’s my cheese? :)

by Joel Thorman on Nov 11, 2008 4:07 PM CST up reply actions  

It is

literally cheese. Don’t get excited.

by Chris Thorman on Nov 11, 2008 4:08 PM CST up reply actions  

So You're Saying

That SB Nation is actually run by the Packers blog and they pay you in dairy products? Those insidious bastards!!! :)

Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.

by UCrawford on Nov 11, 2008 4:11 PM CST up reply actions  

I think he still owes us some royalties

never got a clear word on that :)

"But what do I know, I’m like an empty room with a large ECHO"

by Lanier63 on Nov 12, 2008 12:27 PM CST up reply actions  

True

I know Posnanski has his own blog and writes pretty much daily but it doesn’t seem common place for other writers to have that much free time.

by ashleylat on Nov 11, 2008 3:29 PM CST up reply actions  

I completely agree with the long-shot nature of this.

If it could happen, it would be awesome. Flanny did have the only sports blog on the Star that was solely contributed to by one writer (that i know of).

He saw where his writing was going (blogs), and Flanny wrote a lot of honest, objective opinions about the Chiefs and the Royals. Pure blog material.

Unfortunately, he also chronicled the release of his press colleagues around the midwest…which was prescient.

by DThomasReigns on Nov 11, 2008 3:36 PM CST up reply actions  

He's Got The Free Time Now

And as he’s more of a local columnist who’s tied in with the KC community rather than a national guy, I think he’d be a good fit for what AP does. Chris’s morning updates bear some resemblence to Flanagan’s Top Of The Morning column and I think Flanagan would add a more varied perspective on things because he can hit topics that are Chiefs-related that we might not think about or have as much knowledge on. We’re as capable of watching and evaluating the games as anyone else, but we do often operate from a position of relative ignorance on a lot of what goes on off the field…a limitation that could be alleviated significantly by a guy who actually knows people to talk to if he wants to do an original story about the Chiefs.

Whether this is something he has interest in doing, I don’t know…but the plus side to working in a format like this is that he’s less constrained in what he chooses to write about and he’ll have a supportive audience built in (which is something that’s tough to develop if you move elsewhere). I read his columns daily with the Star and I’d definitely love to see them continue here.

Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.

by UCrawford on Nov 11, 2008 3:37 PM CST up reply actions  

+1

Maybe we should just send him the comments from this thread as recruitment.

by DThomasReigns on Nov 11, 2008 3:40 PM CST up reply actions  

+1

If it will bring him here, I’m all for it.

Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.

by UCrawford on Nov 11, 2008 3:41 PM CST up reply actions  

Agreed

His format at OTP translates well to AP. Besides, I’m sure he was getting good traffic there so those folks need somewhere to go :)

by Joel Thorman on Nov 11, 2008 3:43 PM CST up reply actions  

And SB Nation Might Not Be A Bad Place For Him To Frequent In General

They have a Royals blog too that does FanPosts (although I’m not a regular reader, but I should probably start). And SB Nation seems to get a lot of traffic. As blogs go, this is a pretty good setup if you want to keep your name out there.

Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.

by UCrawford on Nov 11, 2008 3:47 PM CST up reply actions  

Depends

On the person I guess. Even though his Top of the Mornin’ column appears small and fairly easy to write I’m sure it takes a lot more time to get together than we can ever imagine. He does have the time but in all actuality he would be going to doing something on a Monday getting paid a decent salary (assumption after 19 years) to doing the exact same thing for free to a limited number of (let’s be honest) football geeks.

I would love to see it as much as the next person because I thoroughly enjoy his column but who knows if he is interested in moving on to the blogosphere.

by ashleylat on Nov 11, 2008 3:46 PM CST up reply actions  

No Clue

Just saying that if he chose to come here I’d love to have him. And don’t underestimate the football (and baseball) geeks who frequent blogs…they’re a growing demographic in terms of sports readership.

Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.

by UCrawford on Nov 11, 2008 3:49 PM CST up reply actions  

By The Way

Good post, Ashley…I think the discussion it kicked off was pretty good.

Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.

by UCrawford on Nov 11, 2008 3:53 PM CST up reply actions  

Thanks

The downfall of the print media and the persons effected is near and dear to my heart since I have such a close friend who is a sportswriter. He’ll know in the next month or so if he will be laid off and face this economy without a job so a lot of this I try to look at from his point of view.

If Chris or someone does approach him regarding writing for AP remember he just lost a job…so be kind. It’s never fun.

by ashleylat on Nov 11, 2008 4:02 PM CST up reply actions  

Losing A Job Always Sucks

In good times or bad. But fortunately it’s something that’s usually temporary.

Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.

by UCrawford on Nov 11, 2008 4:04 PM CST up reply actions  

I respect your stance for your friend.

But, picture this as a possible opportunity for someone, like your friend, to stay active in his profession on a relatively recognized site.

If your friend could have the exposure here, and keep writing, wouldn’t you support it? Even with no pay.

I also want to reaffirm that Chris has complete authority on this, and I don’t want to make us look like (me) we are offering Flanny the job. I am only a visitor of AP.

by DThomasReigns on Nov 11, 2008 4:22 PM CST up reply actions  

Add to that, AP is one of the most professional and respectful blogs around, regardless of topic.

The members are intelligent, we have constructive arguments, very rare instances of flaming, and we all equally love the topic.

AP is the perfect Chiefs blog for a professional Chiefs/Royals reporter of which I know.

by DThomasReigns on Nov 11, 2008 3:56 PM CST up reply actions  

Most Of The Flaming

Is probably due to frustrations with the state of the team than anything else…I suspect it will probably dissipate over time if a) we start winning a few games, b) we change head coaches and/or c) we hit the offseason. Losses have a way of putting people in a foul mood regardless of what your position is for why the team’s losing.

Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.

by UCrawford on Nov 11, 2008 4:00 PM CST up reply actions  

But The Core Of Regulars

Keeps coming back and generally contribute good stuff, and I agree that it’s probably not going to change. There’s a good vibe about this place, even in the heated moments.

Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.

by UCrawford on Nov 11, 2008 4:01 PM CST up reply actions  

Not rely a reply to your post, but

He could have his featured, minimally time consuming, segment much like Ted Sundquist’s contribution to PFT (which definitely keeps Sundquist’s name as a GM out there).

by DThomasReigns on Nov 11, 2008 4:04 PM CST up reply actions  

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