Arrowhead Pride: An SB Nation Community

Navigation: Jump to content areas:



Around SBN: Race to the BCS: rankings, in-game scores & blogs Bar-right-arrows



spread the word

Poll: What Do You See As The Problem With The 2008 Chiefs?

To get an impression of where everybody stands at the bye week, I'd like to toss out this poll for everyone's consideration.  Just list the option that, in your opinion, seems to be the most problematic for the team out of the ones named.  Granted, we can't submit multiple answers, but then again that's what the comment threads are for (and I'm sure people will have opinions on it that they'll want to flesh out or to put in context).

Poll
What do you see as the most pressing problem with the 2008 Kansas City Chiefs?
Player Inexperience
149 votes
Team Talent Level
97 votes
Coaching
326 votes
Fan Support
4 votes
Front Office Strategy
141 votes
No Significant Problems (Team Is Progressing As It Should)
20 votes

737 votes | Poll has closed

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of Arrowhead Pride's writers or editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of Arrowhead Pride writers or editors.

2 recs | Comment 59 comments | Digg!

Read Related

Story-email Email Printer Print

Comments

Display:

Good Call, UC

At least we can determine where we stand as a community.

by primetime 07 on Oct 8, 2008 7:21 PM CDT   0 recs

Thanks

It was Eric Allen’s suggestion…I was just quicker to post it than he was. :)

Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.

by UCrawford on Oct 8, 2008 7:25 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I'm glad this poll was put up.

I want to see if half the people here really back up Herm and Carl.

KC Tat Guy

by KC Tat Guy on Oct 8, 2008 7:30 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I'm Thinking

We should probably put a similar poll up periodically so we can track opinion over an extended period of time during the season. See what the variance is depending on the team’s fortunes.

Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.

by UCrawford on Oct 8, 2008 7:32 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Just don't put it up the day after a huge loss or big win

People need time to let their emotions settle out. You have people vote whacky based on whether they are pissed or ecstatic about the previous game.

by ChiefDJ on Oct 8, 2008 7:36 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Good Call

We’ll definitely gauge everyone’s opinions throughout this season.

by primetime 07 on Oct 8, 2008 7:45 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Agreed

Probably on Wednesdays or Thursdays…that’s a good amount of time to let people digest before sounding off.

Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.

by UCrawford on Oct 8, 2008 8:04 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Disclaimer: My opinion may be different than yours, but that's why it is my opinion.

   First off, I’m not really a Herm fan. When he first came to town I thought hey this is what we need. I thought he would bring back a swagger and a toughness to the Chiefs. Honestly now I think it was alot of hype. I watch the debate back and forth. Fire Herm, no don’t fire Herm give him a chance. I say his chance is over. Clark should kick him and Carl to the curb by the end of the season and have a succesor waiting to take over.
  
   And after reading the comments made today on the various fan posts something hit me. This may have already discussed this, I don’t know I don’t keep up with all of the fan posts. but, the Herm Edwards Era is proven worse than the Gunther Era. Gunther led the Chiefs to a record of 16-16 over his two years to be fired after that. Herms first two years were 15-18 (counting the play off loss) or 14-18 if you don’t count the playoffs. Who inherited the better team? I think Herm did. You can say he’s couragous for taking on the youth movement. And that the youth movement is why the Chiefs suck. I wouldn’t mind losing, but teams that are either supposed to be as bad as us or, worse (Oakland and Atlanta) using us for a highlight reel. Cmon?!! Miami and Greenbay are both young teams and they are doing what they can to win! And if you check around I really don’t think half of the people want to keep Herm. Why is he getting by with doing a half assed job?

KC Tat Guy

by KC Tat Guy on Oct 8, 2008 7:28 PM CDT   0 recs

Preaching To The Choir

At least as far as I go…I agree with everything you’ve said.

Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.

by UCrawford on Oct 8, 2008 7:30 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Good Points

And how many years did Gunther have?

Hopefully, like Gunther, we’ll bring Herm back. But as the secondary coach.

by primetime 07 on Oct 8, 2008 7:46 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Gunther

If you recall though, Gunther was fired less because of what he did as a coach (though he was a very poor head coach if you recall) but more because Dick Vermeil, who had won a Super Bowl a couple years before, was willing to take over and Peterson, desperate to turn the Chiefs back into a winner, pretty much sold out to save his legacy.

by ChiefDJ on Oct 8, 2008 8:11 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Jersey here… When Edwards came to NY…he messed them up too. Ive personally watched him coach and he nothing more than a preacher. the only thing missing is a collar around his neck.
Now he has taken the Montana era and days and continues to disgrace the Chiefs.
He needs to go… He is nothing more than insult to injry.
Im sick of his excuses…. he just needs to push the play button weekly in all of his Q&A recaps wtih the media.
Managment keeps him for reasons I dare not post.
LJ putit out there two weeks ago after another embarassing loss.
No more excuses… edwards is off the chain and chiefs right now have drowned.
whether croyle comes back healthy or strong as long as edwards is side lining with his theroretical bullshit…. arrowheads colors are gonna be washed out completely.

by Fire7 on Oct 9, 2008 7:34 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

What are your reasons?

Something tells be you are implying race.

by chiefsfan1384 on Oct 9, 2008 7:56 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Let's stick to the facts at hand

I saw nothing in his comments that indicated racial bias. That has no place here and you shouldn’t be trying to stir that up.

by ChiefDJ on Oct 9, 2008 8:03 PM CDT to parent up   1 recs

not at all….nothing to do with race. afterall i am african american

by Fire7 on Oct 10, 2008 5:42 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

News Flash

The “Montana Era” ended 14 years ago. The Chiefs have been doing the same old stuff for 20 years and it hasn’t worked. Herm is doing something different. We need to give it time to see where it goes.

All the stuff you mentioned: He’s a preacher, he repeats himself in interviews, etc. Those are problems you have with his personality. Not one thing you mentioned has ANYTHING to do with him as a coach. That’s very telling.

Yeah he messed the Jets up bad. Took them to the playoffs three times in five years when they had only been there once the previous decade before he came to town. Boy he sure screwed them up didn’t he?

by ChiefDJ on Oct 9, 2008 7:57 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

thats right…he has done nothing for the team. playoffs? you think edwards was the master behind that? review his play calls when they got one game into the play offs….
 He finished a mediocre 39-41 in five seasons,
 NBC even dropped it from prime time
BILL PARCELLS built that team! Herm just drove it into the ground.
Take a look at Herm’s record for clock management-this is not someone who you would want working on that.

are you a shrink or something… nothing to do with personality….

by Fire7 on Oct 10, 2008 5:55 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I do think he had something to do

with taking them to the playoffs.

I’ll give you that Parcells had input to Herm’s first two playoff appearances.

His 4th year (3rd playoffs) was certainly his team. They tanked due to injuries beyound count the next year, then the following year Mangini took Herm’s team to the playoffs.

by NJChiefsFan on Oct 10, 2008 6:35 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Bill Parcells built the Jets

Took them to one playoff game. Coached that same team another year and went 8-8. Then Al Groh coached them for a year and went nowhere.

Two years removed from when Parcells took them to the playoffs, Herm Edwards came in and took largely the same players to the playoffs 3 out of 5 years.

You can point at it being a Parcells team all you want, it doesn’t matter. The fact is that Herm Edwards was more succesful coaching those players than Parcells was.

Please, point me to where I can review “Herm’s record for clock managment”. All I ever hear are people complaining about a couple of mistakes that were made. I can point to several time managment gaffes by Bill Bellichick, Tony Dungy and Bill Cowher as well.

Much of peoples opinions of Herm is based solely on the hearsay of other disgruntled fans and is not backed up by facts. Yes, Herm had a 39-41 record. You ignore the fact that in 2003 they went 4-12 because they had 18 players on IR, including 11 starters and his first and second string QBs. Not many teams are going to be succesful in that situation. Take away that injury riddled season and Herms record is a very respectable 35-29 with 3 playoff appearances in his time with the Jets.

by ChiefDJ on Oct 10, 2008 12:10 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

That is like

Taking away a long gain from a RB, to work out his averages it happened you cannot take it away. Look at his time here, he will not adjust, even if there is a young player that can out play a vet. We run on first down a majority of the time, unless we are way behind. Gee what are the Chiefs going to do on first down. He is stuck in the 90’s, and is way to stubborn to adjust. Look at when he first got here. Herm are you going to change the offense? No, you don’t change a good thing, I ain’t no dummy. It changed a little I think.

by Eric Allen on Oct 10, 2008 4:14 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Agreed

Sorry, DJ, but you don’t get to cherry pick seasons and claim that the statistics back your argument. Injuries are just a part of football and the good seasons count the same as the bad ones.

Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.

by UCrawford on Oct 10, 2008 8:29 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

right on UC… couldnt have said it better

by Fire7 on Oct 11, 2008 11:50 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I support the guy

And I never hear positives about him.

Thank you DJ

by AngryJesus on Oct 10, 2008 4:15 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

not ignoring anything…stating fact… hearsay…. i dont think so

if you know so much about edwards… i dont need to point out anything to you about clock management

you are using IR as an excuse

edwards and peterson era is done

by Fire7 on Oct 11, 2008 11:52 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

In an attempt to rebuild the team, Edwards cut numerous aging veterans in the offseason, including Pro Bowl Defensive End Jared Allen who was traded to Minnesota As a result, Edwards fielded one of the youngest teams in the NFL in 2008. Edwards streak of opening day defeats continued as the Chiefs lost to the New England score of 17-10. This continued the Chiefs losing record from 2007 into 2008.Edwards team skidded to a franchise record of 12 consecutive regular season defeats. The Chiefs finally ended the streak after defeating the Broncos at home of 33-19. Unfortunately they were blown out the following week at the Carolina . During that game, the Chiefs only managed to gain 127 total yards, their worst performance in 22 years…. is this not a reflection of Edwards?

by Fire7 on Oct 12, 2008 12:01 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Herman Edwards’ performance as a coach has drawn a variety of criticisms.

Teams coached by Edwards have typically started most seasons with poor performances, leading to speculation that Edwards does a poor job of preparation in the preseason. Additionally, Edwards’ record on opening day of the NFL season is 2-6, and his teams have been outscored 203-135 (including 87-30 in the last 4 season openers, all losses) in these games. Ironically, the last season opening game that Edwards’ current team, the Chiefs, managed to win was against Herm Edwards, when he was still coach of the New York Jets.
Edwards has been criticized for a number of perceived clock management gaffes.
Edwards’ game plans have often been criticized as too conservative with little or no imagination.
A prime example of Edwards’ game plans, the lone Chiefs 2006 playoff game was one of the worst offensive performances in recent history.
 
Edwards has been accused of running multiple running backs into the ground, most notably Curtis Martin and Larry Johnson. (accused operative word there)

by Fire7 on Oct 12, 2008 12:05 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Icy Issue: Who’s the worst veteran coach in football?
 
Icier Response: Our money is on Kansas City’s Herm Edwards, who apparently subscribes to the same stagnant offensive theories used so ineffectively by the trench-warfare advocates of World War I

The Chiefs ranked No. 1 in either scoring offense or total offense every year from 2002 to 2005 under head coach Dick Vermeil.
 
But last season, after just two years of the Edwards regime, the Chiefs had plummeted to 31st in both categories.

After the fall from dominant to mediocre in the one year from 2005 to 2006, the Edwards offense fell from mediocre to historically pathetic in the one year from 2006 to 2007.
 
Put most simply, the Chiefs were consistently one of the most dominant offenses in football for four straight years under Vermeil. They were one of the very worst in football last season, after just two years under Edwards.

And there’s no denying that the KC offense went in the tank the day Edwards took over. The lack offense, of course, has certainly impacted the bottom line.
 
The Chiefs were just 4-12 last year, tying a mark for the worst record in franchise history. Only the existence of true bottom feeders like Miami and St. Louis prevented the Chiefs from being the worst team in football last year.
 

by Fire7 on Oct 12, 2008 12:41 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I'm going with talent level

I think we have very good talent in places – #1 WR, TE, RB, Secondary, LT/LG
But are severely lacking it in others – LB, Pass Rush DE, Right side of the O-line, QB

They have been succesful in bringing in a lot of talent in the last few years, but that doesn’t change the fact that we have 16 rookies on the active roster and a lot of players on this team just to fill the position that would be backups on most teams. I mean, come on, an undrafted free agent playing the most important position on the defense?

Bad drafting during five years of the Vermeil era + trading high picks for players that are now retired (or should be) = no talent depth at all.

by ChiefDJ on Oct 8, 2008 7:34 PM CDT   0 recs

I’m just currious. What was your stance on the Vermeil era when we were winning and had one of the best offenses in the NFL? For one I’m not trying to beat a dead horse here but I don’t think Vermeil had nearly as much to do with our draft picks as Herm did the last couple of years. From what I understand Vermeil wanted a defensive player when Carl on his own went out and got LJ? I’m not complaining about LJ by any means. And I’m not sure of your stance, but I have heard alot of people blame our current problems on Vermeil. Also as far as the draft under the Vermeil era isn’t that when we got LJ, and Jared Allen? They both seemed to be Pro Bowl players?

KC Tat Guy

by KC Tat Guy on Oct 8, 2008 7:45 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Vermeil era

I enjoyed it while it lasted, but I knew what we are seeing now was on the horizon.

I think most fans accepted that we were taking a risk. We brought in a coach that had been to two Super Bowls and won one of them just a few years before and they gave him everything he asked for to win no matter the cost. Unfortunately the gamble failed, which is part of why what we are going through now is so hard to swallow.

I don’t think what we did in the Vermeil years was necessarily wrong, but I think a lot of people feel cheated because we did all that and never got anywhere and NOW we are having to go through this horrendous rebuild as a result.

Vermeil had pretty much total control over the draft, the one exception was when Peterson (smartly) overruled Vermeil on Larry Johnson, which pissed Vermeil off pretty bad, but was better in the long run for this team.

Yes LJ and Jared Allen came during the Vermeil era, as well as Derrick Johnson. But to only have three players left over from five years of drafting is extremely poor.

by ChiefDJ on Oct 8, 2008 8:08 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

You know whats even more amazing about these polls?

How many people that vote on them that don’t post in the blogs. There are a LOT of people coming to Arrowhead Pride every day that we don’t even know.

by ChiefDJ on Oct 8, 2008 7:40 PM CDT   0 recs

Yep

We’ll periodically attempt to lure the lurkers out. Unfortunately, it usually takes a terrible, terrible loss for them to come out and say something when they’re fed up.

Oh, by the way, to you lurkers…..REGISTER!

by primetime 07 on Oct 8, 2008 7:52 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Then The Poll Serves Another Purpose

Tracking the hits. :)

Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.

by UCrawford on Oct 8, 2008 8:05 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

POLL

Wanted to answer one and two. We are very young. We have obvious holes at ol, rde, mlb and wide out. We also have a QB who has not been availible. You can not coach experience or talent we need another BIG draft and to stay healthy. Changing coaches now seems like a faider move. Darth Faider is a joke.

by dklogue1 on Oct 8, 2008 7:46 PM CDT   0 recs

Hey UC

It was not my idea for the poll, it was in one of the fanposts where it was suggested, but great idea!

by Eric Allen on Oct 8, 2008 7:55 PM CDT   0 recs

I Got The Idea From Your Comment

So you get the credit. :)

Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.

by UCrawford on Oct 8, 2008 8:05 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

One & Two

But I think the lack of experience is the more dominant issue. It’s to early to tell where the talent level is at for many of the young guys and because there are so many of them…. But we could use an upgrade or two at certain positions currently occupied by “Veteran” players.

by HankerChief on Oct 8, 2008 8:01 PM CDT   0 recs

Good Points

Welcome to AP (albeit 2 days late)!

by primetime 07 on Oct 8, 2008 8:03 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

What's Interesting So Far

Is that “no significant problems” has received zero votes. So while some people are willing to write off the problems to player inexperience nobody’s showing full faith in the youth movement.

Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.

by UCrawford on Oct 8, 2008 8:26 PM CDT   0 recs

That's an interesting way to interpret it

Since people see “Player Inexperience” and “Team Talent Level” as reasons we are losing, that doesn’t mean they don’t have full faith in the youth movment. It just means if you ask them why we’re losing, thats the reason why.

I voted for team talent level and I back the youth movment 100%. But the reasons we are losing are both player inexperience and overall talent level.

When you’re 1-4 and have gotten blown out in a couple of games, I don’t think any sane person would say there were “no significant problems”.

by ChiefDJ on Oct 8, 2008 8:42 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

What I was thinking was interesting

Was how much I had overestimated how many people thought coaching was the primary problem. 50% Man, I was way off! (at the time of this post, 38% of people voted for coaching)

by ChiefDJ on Oct 8, 2008 8:44 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

We'll See

How that ends up by the end of the season. I’m suspecting that those numbers are going to skew quite severely to the “bad coaching” side of the spectrum with a couple more ass-kickings.

Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.

by UCrawford on Oct 8, 2008 8:46 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Unless we win a few more games

You assume we’re going to go 1-15, just like a couple weeks ago you assumed we were going to go 0-16.

This is only week 5, a lot could change by the end of the year.

by ChiefDJ on Oct 8, 2008 8:54 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

And Keep In Mind

That voting for team talent as a problem is not necessarily a vote for it not being the coach’s fault but may be an indictment of Herm’s and Carl’s ability to bring in quality players. That’s why I suggested that people should comment to add context to their answers.

Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.

by UCrawford on Oct 8, 2008 8:49 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Small sample size

It should hit several hundred by tomorrow morning (even if it is a lower traffic day…)

by primetime 07 on Oct 8, 2008 8:51 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Let's stop with the excuses

If people think Herm or Carl are the problem, they have their own individual categories people can pick.

Take the numbers for what they are without trying to skew them to your point of view.

by ChiefDJ on Oct 8, 2008 8:53 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

You Mean

Like when you claimed that your point of view was the majority when well over half the votes pointed to Herm and Carl being the problem? :)

Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.

by UCrawford on Oct 8, 2008 9:00 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I think what I said was

Half the people that come to this site do not solely blame Herm Edwards.

I can easily see how people can blame Carl Peterson for selling out in the Vermeil era and allowing the terrible drafts. That has nothing at all to do with Herm.

by ChiefDJ on Oct 8, 2008 9:16 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Now Who's Skewing The Results To Fit Their Interpretation

I’ll add a second poll next week to accompany this one.

Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.

by UCrawford on Oct 8, 2008 9:30 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

My 2 cents worth

“What do you see as the most pressing problem with the 2008 Kansas City Chiefs?”
                2 words….. Coaching Staff…. That’s all I have to say.

Igorash

by Igorash on Oct 9, 2008 2:25 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I’m just curious though how people are distinguishing Player Experience and Talent Level. And Front Office or Coaching. One has to do with the other in my opinion you could group the experience and talent together and I think that the front office and coach are tied together.

KC Tat Guy

by KC Tat Guy on Oct 8, 2008 8:55 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Suggestions For Improving The Poll

Would be highly welcome.

I recognize that results can be thrown off by the phrasing so if you’ve got some ideas to make the choices a little better I’m open to them. I just tossed this thing up in about five minutes.

Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.

by UCrawford on Oct 8, 2008 9:01 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Definitely, no I’m not nitt picking what was done. But I would probably lump the ideas together. Meaning I would probably say that those who vote for coaching and those that vote for front office are probably of the same camp and those who voted for experience and talent are probably like minded.

KC Tat Guy

by KC Tat Guy on Oct 8, 2008 9:05 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I Agree

This one’s more about specific areas. If we want to focus it a bit more we should do what Gallup does, use multiple polls to try and put together a bigger picture. Something like “What Do You Think Needs To Be Done?” (with choices of “Fire Herm”, “Fire Carl”, “Stick to the rebuilding plan”) or “How Long Should We Give The Plan” (with different timeline options). Probably worth considering for the second iteration of this poll next week.

Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.

by UCrawford on Oct 8, 2008 9:08 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

So my way of thinking at this time it is 29 votes players fault and 34 say its the organizations fault.

KC Tat Guy

by KC Tat Guy on Oct 8, 2008 9:07 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Basically what I’m saying is for instance, the reason why a veteran pro bowler is such a comodity is they have experience. They have experience because their talent put them on the field in front of the less talented players. The more they are on the field the more they hone their craft. Hence the term wiley veteran.

As far as coaching front office goes. Most succesfull teams the coach and gm work together to develop a game plan, get personel for that plan, implement that plan and develop a strategy for the personel they have. It is much like a business you play to your strengths and try to find people to fill in the position that is weak.

KC Tat Guy

by KC Tat Guy on Oct 8, 2008 9:02 PM CDT   0 recs

Comments For This Post Are Closed


User Tools

Welcome to SB Nation's Kansas City Chiefs blog!

FanPosts

Community blog posts and discussion.

Recommended FanPosts

Dawesome_copy_small
Ask a Bills blogger
Csclogo_small
Ask Canal Street Chronicles!
Lanier_small
AP Draft Guide
Small
OFFICIAL Bones Bandwagon-'cause PARADE doesn't own "OFFICIAL" (updated 2)

Recent FanPosts

156_l_small
"Blitzburgh"
Chiefs_small
AP '09 Draft Guide: OLB
Pissontheraiders_1__small
CHIEFS BAR AND GRILL IN KC AREA
Small
Great Humorous NFL site
Football_season-044_small
QB comparison for the Bills game
Small
Roster Additions from the Mothership
Righthandside_small
Ending Chiefs’ losing streak is in players’ hands
Feb_8__2005_g_small
What are the Signs of a Bad Coach?
Small
Free Agents in the 2009 Offseason

Post_icon New FanPost All FanPosts Carrot-mini


Founder

Arrowhead_pride_small Chris

Editor

Small primetime 07

Contributors

Ajax_small ChiefDJ

Chiefs_small Direckshun

ad