Defensive Line or Offensive Line?

by primetime 07 on Oct 8, 2008 8:00 AM CDT in Campaign 2008

Around here we've beaten the offensive line to death with consistent (but deserved) criticism. Their inability to effectively protect the quarterback or consistently create running lanes for Larry Johnson has been a massive problem. It's handcuffed our team's ability to get anything going offensively.

However, the other side of the line has been just as big if not bigger of a failure in the Chiefs downfall. The defensive line, comprised of two 1st round picks, one 2nd round pick and a 3rd round pick (albeit all within the last 3 years) aren't getting to the quarterback nearly enough.

With a below average output from the defensive line, Herm Edwards had this to say, “At times we got there, but we didn’t sack him. If you hit the guy and disrupt the guy and he can’t throw it on time, that’s almost as good as a sack. If you can make the guy throw quick, you’ve got a chance.”

Ugh. You HAVE to get to the quarterback in this league. It's as crippling as not having the ability to make first downs through the air on offense.

Teams pass the ball now. A lot. It's performances like these that really do make me think Herm is instituting game plans that are simply out-dated. I mean I'm not blaming the guy. That's his style. It's just unfortunate his style is heading in the opposite direction the league is headed.

The KC Star and the FanPosts touched on this subject as well.

Poll

If you could add a Pro Bowler it would be on the....

Offensive Line

200 votes

Defensive Line

82 votes

282 votes | Poll has closed

1 recs | Comment 39 comments |

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Comments

I voted defensive line

Because the offensive line is generally heralded as a unit while I suspect one Pro Bowler on the defensive side of the ball can make a HUGE difference ala Albert Haynesworth or Jared Allen last year.

by primetime 07 on Oct 8, 2008 8:07 AM CDT 0 recs

Offensive line

I feel we have more talent on the D-line right now than the O-line. So I feel the O-line needs more help and the D-line only really needs a pass rushing DE.

by tevans96 on Oct 8, 2008 8:49 AM CDT 0 recs

Biggest Impact

Do you think an offensive lineman would have a bigger impact than a pass rushing DE?

by primetime 07 on Oct 8, 2008 8:51 AM CDT up 0 recs

Bigger impact?

As just one individual player the bigger impact comes from the D-line. You can see how much a Jarred Allen talent helped the entire D last year.

I just think right now the D-line is ahead of the O-line in talent and thus the O-line needs more help.

I also see enough progress from our DT position that I think we will possibly see a Pro Bowl player there in the next couple of years.

by tevans96 on Oct 8, 2008 9:16 AM CDT up 0 recs

Well

if the offense stayed on the field more than three plays at a time and the defense got “some” rest, then yes.

"But what do I know, I’m like an empty room with a large ECHO"

by Lanier63 on Oct 8, 2008 9:27 AM CDT up 0 recs

I would add a ProBowl center.

My line would be: LT Albert,LG Waters, C Saturday, RG Jones, RT Taylor

Go to Wide World of Roto for all your fantasy news!

by JasonM on Oct 8, 2008 9:36 AM CDT up 0 recs

Something makes me think

he will retire as a Colt on a Monday :)

"But what do I know, I’m like an empty room with a large ECHO"

by Lanier63 on Oct 8, 2008 9:38 AM CDT up 0 recs

This is all hypothetical

Saturday was the 1st ProBowl center that popped in my head. I disagree, he will retire on a Friday.

Go to Wide World of Roto for all your fantasy news!

by JasonM on Oct 8, 2008 9:41 AM CDT up 0 recs

Saturday

Is old and not worthy of being signed. I will admit center is an important position for the Chiefs when Herm is our coach because we run it up the gut 93% of plays.

Herm Edwards is a retard.

by CBaller13 on Oct 8, 2008 10:15 AM CDT up 0 recs

I know he is old

It was hypothetical, his name was the first that popped into my head at the center position. Would it have been better if I had said a ProBowl center instead? I don’t want to sign Saturday, I just want a better center than Rudy.

Go to Wide World of Roto for all your fantasy news!

by JasonM on Oct 8, 2008 10:28 AM CDT up 0 recs

Kinda funny if you look back at the centers we have had

Jack Rudnay
Mike Webster (just a couple of years)
Tim Grunhard
Casey Wigemann (was good and reliable mostly)

We seem to have hit a bump in the road for now unless Rudy can pull it out.
Trivia however, Wade Smith is not the first Center to come out of Memphis to play for the Chiefs. Bob Rush came over from San Diego in the early to mid 80’s.

Brought to you by the sometimes reliable Lanier63…lol

"But what do I know, I’m like an empty room with a large ECHO"

by Lanier63 on Oct 8, 2008 11:12 AM CDT up 0 recs

There are 2 quality centers coming out in this draft

Mack and Luigs

by TheQ on Oct 8, 2008 11:56 PM CDT up 0 recs

O Line

A. Herm is a retard (I’m starting every post with that statement)

B. Our DLine is bad but we aren’t Denver bad. Our OLine might very well be the worst in the NFL. Also you can’t win games if you don’t score points.

by CBaller13 on Oct 8, 2008 8:50 AM CDT 0 recs

maybe Krumrie is part of the problem on the D line

I’m not ready to point fingers at the o line coach…yet

by sm7600 on Oct 8, 2008 9:46 AM CDT 0 recs

We have debated that point before in the past

Kumrie at least played the position and knows first hand the ins and outs. The guys coaching the O Line are as follows:
Bob Bicknell
Bicknell was a three-year letterman as a tight end at Boston College when Curl was on staff as the QBs coach. His coaching experience is: Safeties, Tight End, Running Backs, Linebacker, and Offensive Line. As an O Line coach he has never coached anywhere more than three years.
Joe D’Alessandris
Played Guard and coached O Line since 1979 (year I graduated High School)
Now why isn’t he the head Off Line coach? (came to the Chiefs with Gailey after 6 years at G Tech.

"But what do I know, I’m like an empty room with a large ECHO"

by Lanier63 on Oct 8, 2008 11:20 AM CDT up 0 recs

CURL

NEEDS TO GO

Herm Edwards is a retard.

by CBaller13 on Oct 8, 2008 2:08 PM CDT up 0 recs

Go rewatch Hard Knocks

Krumrie is not the problem.

by AngryJesus on Oct 8, 2008 10:37 AM CDT 0 recs

You Realize

That “Hard Knocks” isn’t the most objective measure of what happened in training camp last year because the Chiefs management actually had final editing authority over the entire series, right*? Any insights we got into who is and isn’t a good coach are purely coincidental and unintentional. All we can say for certain is that Krumrie’s defensive line is getting destroyed this year against the run and they can’t rush the passer. So he’s not immune from criticism.

*From what I can tell all “Hard Knocks” series have given the teams involved final editing authority over the product before it’s aired (which, in fairness, they need to). So you’re only going to get the perspective management wants to show you.

Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.

by UCrawford on Oct 8, 2008 11:20 AM CDT up 0 recs

You cannot question his passion

or commitment to his job.

"But what do I know, I’m like an empty room with a large ECHO"

by Lanier63 on Oct 8, 2008 11:21 AM CDT up 0 recs

Just His Results

And that’s the only thing that really counts, and unfortunately they’re very lacking this year.

Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.

by UCrawford on Oct 8, 2008 11:33 AM CDT up 0 recs

Oh...

I was operating under the assumption that Hard Knocks with the be-all-end-all source for reliable information.

I undertand it was highly stylized, and of course the management had direction. I don’t think they would have allowed it to happen otherwise.

by AngryJesus on Oct 8, 2008 11:52 AM CDT up 0 recs

I Sense Sarcasm :)

Just trying to point out that we only saw shots of Krumrie in the moments that management wanted us to see. For all we know as soon as the cameras were gone he puttered off to the equipment room for a Sterno and vodka cocktail while the ball boy ran d-line practices*.

The most objective assessment we can make of him is how his line produces, and right now his line’s not producing. Do I think it’s Krumrie’s fault? Probably not…I’m getting the impression that Hali’s knee injury is a lot more serious than they’re letting on (the Star article referenced it twice and he shouldn’t be this bad on the right) and Krumrie doesn’t write in the lineups or draft and trade personnel. But the results on the field are still terrible and until the Chiefs either improve or admit that Hali is simply not cutting it on the right side then Krumrie’s as accountable as anyone.

*Not really…it was a gasoline and vodka cocktail. Krumrie’s an animal. :)

Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.

by UCrawford on Oct 8, 2008 12:06 PM CDT up 0 recs

prolly deserves a +1

But you won’t get it from me!

by AngryJesus on Oct 8, 2008 12:23 PM CDT up 0 recs

O line is so important

D line is important, but much less so. Also, our offensive line is soooo much worse than our defensive line – and I know our d-line is not that great.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Oct 8, 2008 12:32 PM CDT 0 recs

The D-Line's At Least Not Getting Anyone Hurt

Which is probably as much of a knock on them as anything since they’re supposed to hurt people…but the damage our QBs are taking is simply unacceptable.

Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.

by UCrawford on Oct 8, 2008 12:34 PM CDT up 0 recs

+1

The total lack of offense is killing all parts of this team.

I see the current D line as having a much greater chance at success than our current O line.

by NJChiefsFan on Oct 8, 2008 12:34 PM CDT up 0 recs

It's Just A Shame

That the Chiefs haven’t been able to find a young, standout defensive end who can put consistent pressure on the QB and draw double teams that make the rest of the line more effective and who can be a cornerstone of this organizations defense for another five or six years.

Oh wait…

Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.

by UCrawford on Oct 8, 2008 1:06 PM CDT 0 recs

You're talking about

Eric Hicks right?!

Herm Edwards is a retard.

by CBaller13 on Oct 8, 2008 2:09 PM CDT up 0 recs

Nice Signature Block :)

Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.

by UCrawford on Oct 8, 2008 2:45 PM CDT up 0 recs

Actually as a former Def Lineman (noseguard)

we were taught that it was the lineman’s job to draw the double teams on running plays so the linebackers could make the tackles. I can’t get “keep the blockers off the linebackers” out of my head it was yelled so often too me. If we had linebackers making more tackles (middle calling you out) then I am sure the line would suddenly look better.

"But what do I know, I’m like an empty room with a large ECHO"

by Lanier63 on Oct 8, 2008 2:26 PM CDT up 0 recs

My solution

Draft guys long-snappers in the 7th round and hope they turn into the next Jared Allen!!!!

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Oct 8, 2008 2:26 PM CDT up 0 recs

lets see

We need help on both lines but………….. IMO Hali is still a good DE, he is just on the wrong side. When he was playing at the LDE spot he was much more dominate because he was going up against weaker tackles and his numbers didn’t look that good because Allen was there but what the numbers didn’t tell you is that he was pressuing the QB making him leave the pocket to the left side of his line and Allen was punishing them. We need to move Hali back to the LDE spot and draft a pure Rush DE to play at in Jareds old place. I think our DT’s are very good and I think that if we drafted someone to take that spot we would be fine. Than we could cut Ron Edwards and have Dorsey and Tyler as the starters and have Boone rotate at DT where he belongs. and then Turk MCBride could be like Justin Tuck last year for the Giants. giving us great depth but Hali is not the answer at RDE but he can play LDE and Brian Johnston and Turk MCbride I don’t think have what it takes to play that RDE spot either. within the first two rounds we need a DE may be first three…..sorry for being so long

by IamtheGreatest on Oct 8, 2008 3:28 PM CDT 0 recs

The problem with that

When he was playing at the LDE spot he was much more dominate because he was going up against weaker tackles…

Is that he has gone up against two tackles this year that were starting their first games in the NFL.

by primetime 07 on Oct 8, 2008 4:10 PM CDT up 0 recs

That's Why

I’m increasingly of the opinion that his knee injury is a lot more serious than the team’s disclosed.

Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.

by UCrawford on Oct 8, 2008 4:12 PM CDT up 0 recs

As a player

At what point do you say something publicly if you were injured and playing below par? I know these guys are professionals but if Hali is injured I can imagine the criticism is eating him up inside.

The Liberian Nightmare no more…

by primetime 07 on Oct 8, 2008 4:52 PM CDT up 0 recs

No Clue

But until then I don’t think Hali deserves a pass on the criticism. If you want to play hurt, fine…but you take the hits for it, especially when your play is hurting the team (which his is).

Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.

by UCrawford on Oct 8, 2008 5:06 PM CDT up 0 recs

Good points

by primetime 07 on Oct 8, 2008 5:12 PM CDT up 0 recs

How I voted

It was tempting to vote D-line. A legitimate RDE IMO would make a huge difference. We just have more holes on the o-line. Look at TOP of Carolina game NO defense can stand up to that again, IMO. I think a void in the MLB position also affects playing the run in particular.

by dklogue1 on Oct 8, 2008 10:45 PM CDT 0 recs

O line

2 years in a row of struggling to run the ball has nearly broken me. Running and stopping the run are critical to success in football. I know we can argue all day about how the NFL is changing and it is more of a passing league now, but unless you have someone like Montana who can put it on the money all the time, you gotta tote the rock! Can we draft Wille Roaf again?

by TheQ on Oct 9, 2008 12:00 AM CDT 0 recs