Arrowhead Pride: An SB Nation Community

Navigation: Jump to content areas:

Around SBN: Race to the BCS: rankings, in-game scores & blogs Bar-right-arrows

Why didn’t the Chiefs actively pursuit Free Agent players who could of helped the many holes on this team?

250px-platoon_greenspon2_tiny by aPacificChief on

I convinced that Chiefs did not go after some necessary free agent players, simply so that we could lose.  Yes, LOSE…that’s the harsh reality of it all.

It’s starting to look more apparent that this year in the minds of the brass is (for lack of a better term) a throw away year.  Purposely put together with the clear intent to simply evaluate the players (strengths and weakness)  we have on roster.  While we continue to add and subtract the players on the Active roster/Practice squad. 

 

We did not need to add free agents to masquerade  the fact that we virtually have no chance to compete for a Super Bowl, at least for another 2 to 3 years.  So why add players that would allow us to win a few more games, but miserably fall short of a Super Bowl birth ( i.e. Herm’s 1st season with KC in ’06)?

 

The way the NFL is designed, you cannot consistently add quality young talent if your winning 7 to 9 games a year.  Especially in positions of need, you ultimately are drafting in the mid range of the draft for the best available player.  So the plan for this year is addition through subtraction, by subtraction I mean wins.  So in order to get better we must first get worse, in short we must lose and that means like the 34 – 0 like last Sunday.  The talk is that the talent level on this team when Herm came on board was little to non-existent.  Whether it was through bad draft day decisions, or through retirements.  The result was we did get worse.  Although it is a convincing argument I cannot completely support that claim as being exactly right, but I believe there is some truth to it.

 

As we all can see the talent level is starting to assemble, and they are for the most part young.  Whether they improve to the level we expect them to remains to be seen.  In the last 3 drafts we had some 26 picks, and of those 26 picks 22 remain on the team.  The 3 previous drafts (’05,’04,’03) we had 25 selections of those 25 picks only 3 players remain (and only a few of those players released were ever picked up by other clubs).

Those 25 players that we drafted hopefully will be what we can continue to build on, provided we do a good job of resigning them to their second contracts.  We have at least  developed a mild level of success on scouting players who can contribute, albeit none yet have hit superstar status from those recent draft classes.  As Pele (Brazilian soccer star) once said, “I see a field of super stars, but not a super star team” (when asked about there chances of winning the World Cup in ’02)  This is a team sport, so if we can find players who compliment each other, production will follow and with production recognition (i.e. Pro-Bowl invitations) 

 

If we have another strong draft class in 2009 I think we should be in the playoff hunt again in 2010.  In the beginning of 2010 we should be starting to add quality free agents who are available, but not before then.  Otherwise we might start winning, and for a rebuilding team that’s the last thing you want to do. RIGHT?

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of Arrowhead Pride's writers or editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of Arrowhead Pride writers or editors.

1 recs | Comment 98 comments

Story-email Email Printer Print

Comments

Display:

You're Overrating The Last Three Drafts

No NFL draft class can be objectively evaluated until about three years down the road. Why? Because three years is when most of those players have gone through their first contract so that’s the time when we’ll have an idea what quality of player they were. That’s why it’s an inherently flawed argument to claim that the last three draft classes were good because we’ve got 22 out of 25 players still hanging around (even though it’s actually 21 out of 26)…because it’s not unusual for teams to hold onto even useless players through the duration of their contract.

The only draft class that we can really evaluate from the “Herm Era” with any sort of objectivity is the 2006 draft class. From that class we’ve got Tamba Hali (who regressed after his rookie season and is a non-factor this year…something of a bust for a 1st rounder), Bernard Pollard and Jarrad Page (both solid safeties), Brodie Croyle (extremely underwhelming at QB and possibly on his way out after this season), and Jeff Webb (a receiver we kept this year to replace Samie Parker who has actually been worse than Samie Parker). Marcus Maxey and Tre Stallings were useless to us. So that’s two solid players we drafted out of that class, a defensive end who seems to be regressing, a QB of the future who can’t stay healthy (and is worse than his mediocre backup), and a wide receiver who seems to be around for no other reason than that he shares an alma mater with the head coach. Hardly encouraging building blocks for the future. So it’s very possible that the only players of worth we’ll get out of that draft will be Pollard and Page, which will make the 2006 draft almost as dismal as the 2005 draft.

Better drafting indeed…the only reason they tout their accomplishments in the last three draft classes is because those draft classes are too new for us to see the flaws.

Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.

by UCrawford on Oct 7, 2008 7:18 PM CDT   0 recs

What I find interesting about your comments

Is that the team is made up almost entirely of players three years or less with the team and you admit that it takes most players a few years to devleop and settle into what type of player they are going to become; yet you constantly barrage us with multiple posts on every topic about how its ALL Herm Edwards and Carl Petersons fault the team is so bad.

If it takes a few years for the players to get in the groove and see what they can do, does that not seem to indicate that this, combined with the obvious holes at certain positions, is a pretty big part of the problem with this team this year?

You’ve got a squad full of players that are struggling just to find their place in the NFL, much less gelling with the players around them that are undergoing the same experience. You also know that no team drafts superstars or starters with every draft pick (not to mention all the undrafted players), yet the Chiefs are stuck playing those guys regardless because the talent that was on the team when Herm arrived had either already proven itself very poor (Kris Wilson, Sammie Parker, Ryan Sims, etc) or had begun steeply declining or was on the verge of retirement (Eddie Kennison, Trent Green, Will Shields, John Welbourne, Ty Law, Sammy Knight, etc).

It would be great if there had been enough vets on this team to have some sort of continuity, but in the space of about two years, you had virtually every important player from the Vermeil era completely fall to pieces.

I don’t care who your head coach is, you are not going to be succesful when that happens to you. You can only fill so many holes a year with the draft and as time goes by you find out that some of the guys you drafted in the past aren’t going to work out and they will have to be replaced as well.

by ChiefDJ on Oct 7, 2008 7:42 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

What I Find Interesting About Your Comments

Is that you never hold the Chiefs management or coaches accountable for the performance of the product on the field.

You’ve got a squad full of players that are struggling just to find their place in the NFL, much less gelling with the players around them that are undergoing the same experience.

Seriously, this team has regressed in every area this season and you think that the problem is just that they’re young? Damion McIntosh (8 years experience) is one of the worst tackles in the NFL, and he’s starting over a guy (Herb Taylor, 2 years experience) who’s demonstrated at least a minimum of competence at pass blocking. That’s certainly not an issue of inexperience…that’s an issue of Herm not recognizing a shit lineman when he sees it. Same with Adrian Jones (4 years experience) who was so terrible with the Jets (a team in desperate need at guard) that going into this season he hadn’t started a game since 2005. Samie Parker was let go this offseason because Herm thought Jeff Webb could take his place…when Webb’s best season was much worse than Parker’s worst season. How is that upgrading the team when you let mediocre players go to replace them with players who’ve demonstrated even less ability and potential? That’s certainly not something you can blame on the players being young. Or Brodie Croyle…a guy who was injury-prone all through college and injury-prone in the NFL, who’d never done a better job than his mediocre backup, and the Chiefs decide to hand him the starting job without bothering to bring in a capable backup in case Croyle got hurt again (which had a high probability of happening). That’s not on the players being young either, that’s on management being stupid and irresponsible in an attempt to justify their faith in Croyle.

Being young is no excuse for being a thoroughly rotten football team. The Packers were the youngest team in the NFL last year and they went 13-3. They’re also the youngest team this year (younger than the Chiefs) and lost their long-time QB and they aren’t getting blown out by the dregs of the NFL like the Chiefs are. Their QBOTF is the same age as our QBOTF and their QB isn’t one of the worst deep passers in the NFL and getting outplayed by Damon Huard. Their offense isn’t ranked 30th in the NFL (they’re 6th, in fact). How would you like to explain that disparity?

Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.

by UCrawford on Oct 7, 2008 8:35 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

In Fact

It’s pointless going back and forth with you on this because it just degrades into us getting pissed at each other. So I’ll tell you what, in front of the AP faithful I’ll bet you $100 that the Chiefs will never qualify for a playoff spot while Herm Edwards is our head coach (or while Peterson is our GM). Care to put some money behind your deeply held beliefs in Herm’s youth movement?

Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.

by UCrawford on Oct 7, 2008 8:42 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Hey don't you know

We are in tough economic times!:) You sir are a more brave man than me. I agree with you, but I have a greedy family!

by Eric Allen on Oct 7, 2008 8:46 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

One Of The Advantages

Of staying out of credit card debt, being a smart homebuyer, and not purchasing stuff that I’m not sure I’ll be able to pay for. :)

Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.

by UCrawford on Oct 7, 2008 8:50 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I don't criticize the coaching or managment

Because you do it multiple times in every post even if the topic has nothing to do with it. It’s boring and it is scapegoating and comes from your blind hatred of the people rather than any actual logical reasoning. So excuse me if I don’t pile on.

16 rookies on the squad and you don’t think that has anything to do with it? Seriously? It’s ALL Herm Edwards fault?

It wasn’t so bad a few months ago, but I find it increasingly difficult to take anything you say seriously when they are so obviously colored by your attitude towards the GM and coach. There is no question that there are things that have been done that could have been done better, thats not the point. You blindly accuse them of absolutely everything under the sun and its totally ludicrous.

- Damion McIntosh – I don’t know why its tough to figure out, but we’ve only played 5 games this season. It makes sense to me that we would give one of the few vets we have on the team a chance to adjust before tossing him out. Whenever they decide to put Herb Taylor in, there will still be many games for him to play.

-Adrain Jones – So who should be playing RG? Wade Smith? Because he’s been on three different teams in five years. Again, we don’t have a good player at this position because even with all the draft picks we couldn’t fill every need so we filled it with the best we could get. Sucks yeah, but it is what it is.

- Sammie Parker / Webb – You’re seriously defending Sammie Parker? That pretty much destroys your credibility right there. Parker had been around for years and proven he was not an NFL player (dont think he’s even with a team right now). Webb was a 6th round pick that is currently 4th on the depth chart that they are still waiting to see if he will blossom. In case you haven’t been paying attention, none of the WRs on the roster aside from Bowe are doing an aweful lot. The only reason people (you) hate Webb so much is because you hate Herm and for some reason think that Herm is showing favoritism to Webb which is ridiculous. Webb at least catches the ball the few times it is thrown his direction.

-Croyle – Depends on what day you’re talking about Croyle being better than Huard. I would say that Croyle looked immensely better in the Patriots game than Huard looked in the Panthers game. I would say Croyle looked much better than Huard throughout the preseason. He is injury prone and that is a serious concern that will have to be addressed. But there have been a lot of injury prone QBs. Phil Simms only had four seasons in which he played 16 games out of fourteen seasons. Troy Aikman only had two out of twelve seasons where he played all 16 games. Trent Green was injury prone and couldn’t stay in the lineup before he came to KC and started 70 consecutive games. So just because a guy has had some injuries does not mean he should just be kicked to the curb.

Being young alone is not an excuse. Being young PLUS having no depth, and having to sign just about everyone just to fill out the roster because most of the previous coaches roster retired or had to be cut within two years after he left is a big problem that most teams don’t have to deal with. Yeah, the Packers went 13-3 as a young team with a Hall of Fame QB and a more or less settled offensive line. Aaron Rogers also had the benefit of sitting behind said HoF QB for three years in the same offensive system.

I’m not saying that there are no problems with the coaching. I’m not saying that Croyle is going to be a great QB. I AM saying that you are falsely putting the entire crux of the blame on the shoulders of one man, pretending that no team has ever been this bad before and that Edwards deserves no credit whatsoever for any of the good things he has done in the past, relegating it to luck and circumstances; and it is completely wrong for you to do so. I’m saying that you are not looking at any of this reasonably or responsibly because you allow your prejudice of Herm and Carl make it so you can’t see anything else.

by ChiefDJ on Oct 7, 2008 10:35 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

My Rebuttal
16 rookies on the squad and you don’t think that has anything to do with it? Seriously? It’s ALL Herm Edwards fault?

Not entirely…you’ll recall that I also blame Carl Peterson. Know why? BECAUSE THEY BUILT THE FUCKING TEAM, DJ!!! And now it’s actually worse than the year before…and except for Pollard and Page most of the non-rookie players on the team who were supposed to improve this year have actually gotten worse. And because the Chiefs aren’t even the youngest team in the NFL this year and if they did play against the youngest team in the NFL I have no doubt that they’d get their ass handed to them in 10 out of 10 games.

It wasn’t so bad a few months ago, but I find it increasingly difficult to take anything you say seriously when they are so obviously colored by your attitude towards the GM and coach.

Not to put too blunt a point on this, but that’s because you quit listening to anyone else’s legitimate gripes about the team once it became readily apparent to almost everybody but you that they were underachieving even by rebuilding year standards. Seriously, you rationalize away almost every instance of incompetence on the coaching staff. If we point out that the QB of the future is still playing worse than his backup, you try to tell us that it isn’t the case. When we point out that he wasn’t that good in college you (and any other Croyle supporters still left out there) tell us that it wasn’t his fault. When we back up our arguments with stats and on-field results, you tell us that they don’t mean anything. When we point out that the GM who’s saying Croyle is good has a track record of complete failure with drafting QBs (and a questionable record with a lot of other positions) you write us off as Carl Haters.

The reason you don’t take what I (or people who agree with me) say seriously is because you simply don’t want to hear it. And that’s fine…I’m not trying to target you or make you angry and if you don’t want to debate it I’m happy not to engage. What I write is not meant to be malicious like that. But when you dismiss my arguments out of hand don’t pretend it’s because your positions are somehow more grounded in reality than mine are. I’m not the one touting the genius of a coach with a .453 career winning percentage.

- Damion McIntosh – I don’t know why its tough to figure out, but we’ve only played 5 games this season. It makes sense to me that we would give one of the few vets we have on the team a chance to adjust before tossing him out. Whenever they decide to put Herb Taylor in, there will still be many games for him to play.

Actually I’m writing him off because he was a shitty left tackle last season, he did nothing but whine about shifting to right tackle this season and because he plays like a guy with terrible knees and no quickness (which is why he made Charles Johnson look like an All-Pro last Sunday). Oh, and because he’s a “run-blocking specialist” who doesn’t open many holes against decent defenses.

-Adrain Jones – So who should be playing RG? Wade Smith?

Why not? He’s probably not going to be much worse than Jones. Or grab McDuffie off of waivers…I think he’s still available. We’ve already seen what Jones can do. Pretty much nothing. Which is what he also did with the Jets for several years.

- Sammie Parker / Webb – You’re seriously defending Sammie Parker?

No, I’m seriously attacking Webb. Go look up their numbers. Webb sucks. He’s a seriously shitty wide receiver. His best season wasn’t even close to Parker’s worst season (and Parker was a terrible WR). There’s absolutely no reason for him to be getting any more playing time. Hell, there’s not even a reason for him to be taking up a roster spot at this point so the Chiefs might as well waive him. It’s not like anyone else is breathlessly hoping that someone’s going to cut a WR who’s averaging 9.5 yards per catch so they can add them to their team.

Webb was a 6th round pick that is currently 4th on the depth chart that they are still waiting to see if he will blossom.

Yeah, and he’s still playing like a guy who merited being a 6th round pick. Most teams don’t waste three years waiting for a 6th round pick to blossom. Of course most teams aren’t run by Herm and Carl either.

Croyle –Depends on what day you’re talking about Croyle being better than Huard. I would say that Croyle looked immensely better in the Patriots game than Huard looked in the Panthers game.

And I would say that Damon Huard looked much better in the Panthers game than Brett Favre did in that 2005 playoff game against the Vikings where he threw 4 INTs and his team lost by two TDs. But I won’t make that argument comparing Huard to Favre because it would be a stupid argument because that was a small cherrypicked sample size of two different games against two different opponents. The fact is that in the one game where they both played against the same opponent (New England) Huard outperformed Croyle. Over similar sized stretches on the same team last year Huard clearly outperformed Croyle. In the Panthers game, Huard also outperformed Croyle. Know why? Because Huard was actually able to go out on the field for the Chiefs and Croyle wasn’t. Hell, Thigpen outperformed Croyle against the Panthers because at least he suited up.

Being young PLUS having no depth, and having to sign just about everyone just to fill out the roster because most of the previous coaches roster retired or had to be cut within two years after he left is a big problem that most teams don’t have to deal with.

Yeah, it’s a real shame that Dick Vermeil overrode his autocratic boss and insisted that the Chiefs draft only shitty players for his entire time here and never build any reserves capable of stepping in once the starters retired. I’m sure Carl Peterson was completely powerless to stop that, being only the GM. Fortunately once Vermeil left Carl Peterson immediately became a competent GM again and didn’t make the mistake of hiring another coach who’d gotten run out of his previous job because people questioned his competence, his decision-making, his desire to win…

And you call my credibility into question? Please.

Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.

by UCrawford on Oct 7, 2008 11:35 PM CDT to parent up   1 recs

Vermeil offense

Wasn’t as educated as I am now about NFL offenses, but is it possible that Parker was a key ingredient to opening up the middle of the field for guys like Gonzo and Kennison? He was fast and although he dropped everything and celebrated a first down like it was his birthday, I think he was an important part of that attack. Not to mention TD king Marc Boerighter but I digress…..

by dkugler838 on Oct 8, 2008 8:54 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

He was fast and although he dropped everything and celebrated a first down like it was his birthday

I liked that….LOL…. :-) especially about the birthday dance…

by aPacificChief on Oct 8, 2008 4:35 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

The problem with that logic

is that he new what Herm was getting into when he signed on the dotted line. The only real surprise was Roaf retiring right off the bat. He hasn’t handled things very well since day on.
Also, there is no other team in the league to my knowledge that keeps a coach who wins 9, then 4, and as it looks 1 game in a three year period no matter the excuse.

by cmpotter on Oct 7, 2008 10:12 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Pretty Much

As a coach, you’re as good as your wins. And Herm’s neither winning, nor is his coaching putting these guys in a position to win.

It’s one thing if the Chiefs are losing because the games are close and they’re screwing up at the end. That’s inexperience, big mistakes at key moments that you gradually get rid of and it’s to be expected in a youth movement. What’s happening with the Chiefs though is that they’re getting stomped into the ground by bad football teams, and that’s not an issue of inexperience…that’s an issue of either lack of talent (and the Chiefs aren’t that lacking in talent) and/or rotten coaching (and Herm’s the guy in charge of the coaching).

Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.

by UCrawford on Oct 7, 2008 10:22 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

It wasn't one thing

Willie Roaf retired, Trent Green gets knocked out the first game and never recovered. Dante Hall lost the ability to return kicks. Will Shields retires the second year. Eddie Kennison goes out the first game of the second year and never became a factor.

Hell everything good you could say about the Vermeil era disappeared at the beginning of the second season. There was literally nothing but baggage carried over from the previous coach.

by ChiefDJ on Oct 7, 2008 10:38 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Injuries happen and nobody feels sorry

The problem is they seem to happen to Herm a lot. Not sure why, but they do. Dante Hall is getting way to much credit for part of the downfall. He new Shields and Roaf were long in the tooth he didn’t come out of a cave. Besides Kennison we had nobody anyway. That is why he took Jeff Webb in his first draft. All that said there is still no excuse to look like a little league team. No coach keeps there job after three seasons like we are on pace to have. It just doesn’t happen in the NFL. The only reason he will get to keep his, is because Peterson’s doesn’t appear to be in jeopardy, How many coaches has Peterson fired?

by cmpotter on Oct 7, 2008 10:46 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Three

And God help us if he gets to fire a fourth. The last thing we want is Carl Peterson picking the next head coach.

Oh sorry DJ, I forgot, it’s actually Herm who runs the team now. :)

Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.

by UCrawford on Oct 7, 2008 11:38 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Didn't he really only fire one

Everyone else resigned or retired.

by cmpotter on Oct 7, 2008 11:40 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I Suppose It's Two

Marty was forced to “retire” and he definitely fired Gunther (without bothering to tell him first, of course).

Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.

by UCrawford on Oct 7, 2008 11:47 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Correction

Marty was forced to resign. Vermeil retired (voluntarily as far as I know).

Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.

by UCrawford on Oct 7, 2008 11:47 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

The Marty firing

Peterson has had two Hall of Fame coaches and nothing to show for it. Marty is at fault yes and so is Vermeil, but to have two coaches of that caliber shows to me that Peterson needs to go.

by cmpotter on Oct 7, 2008 11:52 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

That's What I've Been Saying

It’s not “Carl Hatred” to point out that the guy hasn’t built a team capable of competing in the playoffs for a very long time. And for all the people who say that “Herm’s running things now” (which I don’t buy for a second) my question would be…if Carl’s not the one in charge then what harm is there in getting rid of him? It’s not like he’s done anything in the last decade to merit keeping his job.

Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.

by UCrawford on Oct 8, 2008 12:19 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

A lot of guys

have been fired for much less. People in charge of businesses get fired if they can’t move forward. This one has been spinning it’s wheels for the last 20 years.

by cmpotter on Oct 8, 2008 8:57 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

You never cease to amaze me how long winded your arguments are....

First I regret that my schedule here is so out of wack that I cannot respond in a timely manner to allow you to rebut.

Okay… lets start, the years that we drafted (‘01,’02,‘03’,& ‘04) drew such little talent that only Kawika Mitchell, Scott Fujita, Derrick Blaylock, and Terdell Sands have actually garnered much playing time with their respective teams who picked them up (Blaylock is no longer in the NFL). The others whom we drafted from these draft classes have contributed margianlly (at best) to the respective clubs who picked them up, and we kept them on our roster for over 4 years before we found out they couldn’t play.

The fact that the recent draft selections are still on roster is actually a good sign. Not because we’re holding on to them for the duration of their contract, but that they might actually have to ability to succeed in the league. YOu cannot tell me truthfully that if another player were available at the same position was better, that he would not be retained solely because we prefer to retain the players we drafted. Thats just completely ludicrous. I would hope that if the player has the ability to play the position it would be the better player who is retained.

The jury is still out on the ‘06 class. We are actually only 4 games into the 3rd year so to say that they haven’t succeed yet , would be like saying I took Tylenol 2 minutes ago why do I still have a headache? That therefore means that the Tylenol must not be any good. Come December will be a better indication if the ’06 class has not lived up to the hype, but even then there is still room for them to improve. Maybe not to the elite status, but if they contribute we can say that this class was still a success over the 2001 draft who have done absolutely nothing for the team, or the league as a matter of fact.

Better drafting indeed…the only reason they tout their accomplishments in the last three draft classes is because those draft classes are too new for us to see the flaws. (Sorry don’t know how to do those fancy blocks)

Like you said it is too early to properly evaluate the players we have selected in the ‘07 & ’08 drafts, so we cannot just simply squat down and start taking a crap on them because their flaws are not yet apparent. The fact that they are already contributing so early into their professional careers is already promising. I see your already complimenting Herm’s methods, because if you play them early you don’t have to wait 3 years to see if they can play at the level expected of them.

by aPacificChief on Oct 8, 2008 5:37 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Blockquoting And A Quick Comment On Draft Picks With Early Playing Time

If you want to do the quote

like this

just highlight the words you want as the quote then click on the " mark in the window right above where you’re typing (next to the symbol for hyperlinking). Should do the trick.

The fact that they are already contributing so early into their professional careers is already promising.

As for draftees playing early, keep in mind that it’s not necessarily a good thing. Is it great if you can find a guy who can move into the starting lineup or play significant minutes? Only if they’re there because they’re actually good enough to start and compete at an NFL level, not if they’re playing only because you can’t find anybody better.

Take Jeff Webb for example. We dumped Samie Parker (which I’ve got no problem with because he was terrible and wasn’t worth re-signing) so we could start giving Webb (a 6th round pick in 2006) more playing time. Well, Webb is now pulling down 9.5 yards per reception as opposed to the 12.4 Parker had last year. So is it really that promising having our 6th round draft pick from three years ago on the field when he’s actually worse than a receiver we cut because he wasn’t that productive?

Keep in mind that a lot of these draft picks are playing because there’s nobody else to really compete for the job, and that they’re playing on a really bad football team. Now some are legitimately good players (like Pollard) but the way you determine that is by how they compete against the rest of the NFL, not by the fact that they’re still on the roster.

You are correct, that it’s too early to render a final verdict on the 2006 draft (which I’ve always stated is true) but it’s not premature to start pointing out that two of the players in that draft (Maxey, Stallings) were useless to us before we finally cut them, one (Webb) is useless to us now, and two who were supposed to be good starters this year (Hali, Croyle) are almost complete non-factors for the team this season. We can’t render a final verdict, but we can definitely say that verdict doesn’t look promising.

Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.

by UCrawford on Oct 8, 2008 8:24 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Sorry

That wasn’t a very quick comment at all :)

Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.

by UCrawford on Oct 8, 2008 8:24 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

As For Adding Talent
The way the NFL is designed, you cannot consistently add quality young talent if your winning 7 to 9 games a year.

Doesn’t seem to have been a problem for the Patriots. They used both the draft and free agency to stock their roster. Then again they also had a coach and GM who actually knew how to scout talent.

Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.

by UCrawford on Oct 7, 2008 7:24 PM CDT   0 recs

Are you sure about that?

Willie McGinest 4th overall ’94
Drew Bledsoe 1st overall ’93
Terry Glenn 7th overall ’96
Lawyer Milloy 36th (2nd round)overall ’96
Richard Seymour 6th overall ’01
Ty Warren 13th overall ’03

I think the only player that was intrumental in the success of New England who was chosen in the later part of the 1st round was Ty Law who was selected 23rd in ‘95. Did you forget those years when they sucked royal? Those high selections don’t sound like they were doing too well during those years. Hard to build a contender if you only get to select in the bottom half of the first round.
Seriously, you got to turn the EVIL EYE away for a moment from CP & HE, and take a look at the big picture, not whats happening just right now. Blame….Blame….that’s getting old, these are our cards were gonna have to play them.

Firing them right now does absolutely nothing to help the long term. What Herm is doing (although his decisions puzzle me at times) has never been tried before in KC. I don’t mean gutting the team and losing, but actually losing for the long term success of the club. Strange, I know to lose with a purpose. I’m interested to see how this plays out. I never hated Carl, I just got fed up with his cautious meandering when dealing with personel. 20 years is enough for anyone, but to fire Carl now would mean Herm would soon follow, and not give him atleast a year more to complete what he has set out to do. Whether he fails or succeeds remains to be seen.

by aPacificChief on Oct 8, 2008 4:35 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

You're Missing A Few

Asante Samuel (4th round, 2003), Nick Kaczur (3rd round, 2005), Deion Branch (2nd round, ’02), Dan Koppen (5th round, 2003), Matt Light (2nd round, 2001).

And of course Tom Brady (6th round, 2000).

Here’s their draft history

http://www.databasefootball.com/draft/draftteam.htm?tm=NWE&lg=NFL

You’ll also note that only two of those picks in the top 15 that you referenced were in the Belichick’s era, that none of those players selected before Belichick’s era were on the team last year and that the Patriots still managed to put together one of the most dominant seasons of all time. So the idea that you have to have high draft picks to build a championship-caliber football team is crap…as is the idea that championship-caliber teams are built only through the draft. Drafting is a tool to build a team, and so are free agency and trades…saying you’re only going to find your good players through one route is basically saying that you’re going to build a house by using only a hammer.

Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.

by UCrawford on Oct 8, 2008 8:37 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Its called luck

they caught lightning in a bottle. If you look at those first super bowl teams however they were built on defense. Seymor, Warren, McGinest, and Law were more instrumental in their success than Brady. Plus, they had been rebuilding in the years past and loaded up on above average free agents, which is what we will have to do after this season.

by chiefsfan1384 on Oct 8, 2008 2:11 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

When You Pull The Occasional Useful Player Out Of The Late Rounds

That’s luck. When you do it frequently, that’s good scouting.

Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.

by UCrawford on Oct 8, 2008 2:50 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

The Pat's have done an unbelievable job in the draft,

that in itself explains why they have been to so successful.

Look at the recent drafts of Seymour and Warren both were taken relatively high with the 6th and 13th selections. The picks that you mentioned are all good players no doubt, but I remeber when the Pat’s did not have Seymour because of injury their pass rush was not as dominating, and McGinest was there during there Super Bowl runs (4th overall).

I’m not saying that we cannot find talent else where in the draft, but the higher selections would most likely than not play a vital role in the development of the team as a whole. We cannot get those higher selections with records like 7-9, 8-8, or 9-7. We need those stink years to get us into the top 10 picks.

I also don’t believe that you don’t build a team completely through the draft alone, but like I said earlier in my post that adding free agent veterans to help us win a game or two right now is of no use. We need those high selections to build the foundation, and when that nucleus is in place we add those complimentary Free Agents to take us over the top. New England did it with Moss and Rodney Harrison, but the core of the team was already in place when they made those moves.

by aPacificChief on Oct 8, 2008 3:49 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Free Agents

I’m not saying we should sign scrubs or washed up free agents (which is what the Chiefs did in the past) but guys like Carl claimed the Chiefs wanted to sign…25-27 year old free agents looking for their second contract who could be a major part of the team for the next 4 or 5 years. You’ll usually overpay for those guys, so they obviously can’t be your entire core of talent, but you’ll still need them otherwise one bad draft will throw your team off the tracks (while having a mix alleviates the pressure to hit on every single draft pick). Trades need to be part of the equation as well…unfortunately the Peterson regime has done such a terrible job overall of evaluating players (and you can’t claim yet that this has changed since Herm showed up) that we rarely have anything worth trading or that we can get value for.

As for the Patriots, they aren’t dominant because they picked high in the draft…they’re still in the middle of their dynasty because they do an outstanding job of evaluating talent (both drafted and free agent) even in their years where they aren’t drafting high, and because they make smart trades to get the picks they need. There’s no reason at all that the Chiefs couldn’t have been that team for the last decade…except that we’ve had the same guy running the show the entire time and he’s simply not good enough to pull it off and the team’s never held him accountable (nor does it appear he really holds himself accountable).

Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.

by UCrawford on Oct 8, 2008 4:06 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

The Problem With 2nd Contract Free Agents, By The Way

Is that Carl can’t seem to convince them to sign here. That’s also something that he doesn’t seem to hold himself accountable for.

Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.

by UCrawford on Oct 8, 2008 4:07 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I think that was not so much that Carl could not sign them...

but more like he wasen’t willing to throw an insane amount of money just to sign them. Thereby OVER paying them.

by aPacificChief on Oct 8, 2008 5:58 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I would have to say that the Pat's are most likely on the decline...

The only player that keeps them competitive is Brady. The team is almost entirely made up of free agent acquistions(except O-line & D-Line all home grown), and are starting to look their age. The defense who was the hallmark of this team for many years has not been as intimidating as they once were.

Currently their defense is ranked 8th in passing yards allowed, and 20th against the run. They also signed their current LB Mayo was taken 10th overall in the last draft.

I understand already the inadequacies of Carl and Herm, but lets not concentrate on them. Lets look at the plan to get better, how do we improve? (other than just firing them, that cracks me up)

We had the 5th & 15th overall picks, and 3 picks out of the first 100 selections in ‘08. The 23rd in 2007, 20th in 2006, 15th in 2005. Don’t you think it won’t hurt to be selecting in the top five again next year?

by aPacificChief on Oct 8, 2008 4:29 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

This Is My Whole Point

Until we get rid of Herm and Carl we’re not going to improve. We can talk about re-arranging the deck chairs on the Titanic that we want, but the ship’s still heading for the iceberg until the captain and navigator get replaced. All there really is to do is point it out.

Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.

by UCrawford on Oct 8, 2008 4:43 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

We'll see if there are enough life boats to keep us afloat at the end of the year.

The ship maybe headed to disaster, but it hasen’t happened just yet. I’m willing to wait and see where this ship is actually headed before I start breaking out the life preserver.

by aPacificChief on Oct 8, 2008 6:01 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I'll Be In The Lifeboat

Dressed as a woman or a small child.

Every man for himself…enjoy the swim :)

Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.

by UCrawford on Oct 8, 2008 6:06 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Hey if you feel more comfortable with womans clothing....

Thats entirely up to you…..Don’t ask don’t tell….. :-)

by aPacificChief on Oct 8, 2008 8:02 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Just My Metaphorical Way Of Saying

That I feel no shame for bailing on Herm’s and Carl’s “plan”. :)

Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.

by UCrawford on Oct 8, 2008 8:18 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Good point

I am trying to be generic as possible with this post so don’t take it personally. Its hard to watch your favorite team play as the chiefs had, but is also easy to sit from the sidelines and criticize everything they do when things go wrong. I myself am not content with a team that is good every year, but one that will never be great or even win a stinking playoff game. It seems everyone was accepting of the rebuilding path that the team chose but only a few can put up with the bumps and bruises that have come along the way. You have to break an egg to make an omelet, and although it seams like we have broken the whole damn carton, i still have faith the end result will be worth the wait.

by InternetCreditOffers.com on Oct 7, 2008 7:59 PM CDT   0 recs

In order to get free agents

They have to want to play for a rebuilding team. That in itself is a challenge. The only free agents we could sign are players no one else wanted.

by cmpotter on Oct 7, 2008 10:05 PM CDT   0 recs

Would You Want To Play Behind That Line?

I sure as hell wouldn’t.

Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.

by UCrawford on Oct 7, 2008 11:40 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

He will have

a great wide receiver in Bowe and a hall of fame TE. Plus, Albert has shown to be a good left tackle.

by chiefsfan1384 on Oct 8, 2008 2:15 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

He'll Have Megatron In Detroit (Who'll Be Looking For A QB)

He’ll have Gruden to work with in Tampa. Or maybe Fitzgerald and Boldin in Arizona (if the Cards don’t re-sign Warner). Or a dominant run game and defense taking pressure off of him in Minnesota (since they’re definitely looking for a QB).

Point is, there are a lot of places that a QB with some talent can go next year to find a starting job that don’t involve getting the crapped kicked out of him behind our line and getting handcuffed by Herm’s pitiful excuse for an offense. The longer we let Herm and Carl run this team into the ground, the harder it’s going to be to attract the players we need to fix it.

Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.

by UCrawford on Oct 8, 2008 2:53 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I have a feeling Warner may not come back next season

Warner plans to take closest look at retirement after season ends
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3629914

"But what do I know, I’m like an empty room with a large ECHO"

by Lanier63 on Oct 8, 2008 3:14 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

He Backed Off On That A Little Later

He wants to play two more years. But then the Cardinals may not want a QB for just two more years, so Losman’s probably an option.

Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.

by UCrawford on Oct 8, 2008 3:18 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

If you were a player would you seriously go to Arizona?

That team has had major issues all throughout its existance in the NFL. Players look to get out of there rather than to stick around. Whinsenhunt has done an ok job down there, but you cannot convince me that Arizona looks better than the Chiefs.

It seems as if that the only players attracted to Arizona is the ones who career is in the downside (Emmitt Smith, Edgerrin James, Bertrand Berry). KC must look like a rose compared to Arizona.

by aPacificChief on Oct 8, 2008 3:59 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Yes, I Would

Terribly run franchise (Arizona fans cursed themselves with the Bidwill’s) but a brand new stadium and as a quarterback there isn’t a better receiving corps out there.

by primetime 07 on Oct 8, 2008 4:34 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Aaahhh....the recieving Corps, I forgot about them...yup that's true..

But doesn’t Bolden want out? that would leave only Fitzgerald.

by aPacificChief on Oct 8, 2008 4:37 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Pretty Much

Most reports seem to indicate that he’s not shown any improvement since being in the league and that his arm strength (never great to begin with) has gotten worse. I think if he doesn’t show something really soon it’ll be fair to label him a massive bust.

Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.

by UCrawford on Oct 8, 2008 4:45 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs