Real Solutions To The Kansas City Quarterback Problem
by Joel Thorman on Oct 6, 2008 11:51 AM CDT
in 2008 Kansas City Chiefs Campaign
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PrintSo, here's the deal. The feelings regarding our quarterback situation are mixed. However, I feel that a majority of folks are looking to make a change and then some of that group wants to make a change NOW.
I'm on record as saying there's nothing we can do to better the quarterback situation now. Trade scenarios, while always an interesting discussion, almost never come to fruition. There's a reason talented quarterbacks never hit the open market.
Below is a list of quarterbacks who are currently free agents. Keeping this list in mind, I want to hear real solutions to the quarterback problem. Pretend as if trading is not an option (because realistically it's probably not). Anyone can say 'Hey it's not working dump 'em all!' But that's not the way it works.
Tell us who you want and WHY. The latter is key. Would any of these players help us now? Do we currently have the best options on staff?
| Player Name | Years Experience | 2007 Team |
| Daunte Culpepper | 9 | Raiders |
| Bruce Gradkowski | 2 | Bucs |
| Tim Hasselbeck | 6 | Cardinals |
| Kelly Holcomb | 11 | Vikings |
| Jared Lorenzen | 3 | Giants |
| Jamie Martin | 13 | Saints |
| Craig Nall | 6 | Packers |
| Tim Rattay | 8 | Cardinals |
| Lester Ricard | 1 | Jaguars |
| Brian St. Pierre | 7 | Jets |
| Chris Weinke | 8 | 49ers |
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Comments
Gradkowski Would Be My Option
He’s not good, but he’s not the worst out there. Culpepper’s the best option but he’s already said he’s not interested in playing for a team unless he was able to start the year with them. Rattay’s currently on a roster I think, otherwise I think he should be our next choice. Hasselbeck’s a scrub, but what the hell…he’s not worse than Thigpen.
Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.
RE: Hasselbeck
Wouldn’t mind seeing (not hearing) his wife around KC…
by Joel Thorman on Oct 6, 2008 11:57 AM CDT up reply actions
Saw Tim Hasselbeck
Working as an analyst for ESPN. Maybe he’d make a comeback if we called, but maybe he’d rather get his next career started than hold the clipboard for a team going nowhere.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
My first choice
Would be to keep the guys we have on staff. I don’ t see any of these current crop of FAs helping us immediately.
However, if a choice had to be made I’d go with Gradkowski. He’s been a starter previously and went 3-8 with a 1:1 TD:INT ratio and completed 54% of his passes. His youth combined with his limited experience and limited success make him the most intriguing off the list.
I thought Lorenzen
played well in the preseason against the Panthers. He’s still a project but who knows
I blog the Carolina Panthers at www.catscratchreader.com
Not Going To Be Available
Campbell seems to be establishing himself, but he’s still a bit of an injury risk. They won’t be parting with Brennan cheaply, if at all. And he’s not worth the risk this season…especially considering the state of our line.
Trades are not a serious option this year…partly because few people will be selling, partly because any QB we bring in behind this line will be a horrible gamble.
Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.
I said this
before the draft and everyone laughed and cussed me out. I’m from Hawai’i and this kid has heart and the tools to get better.
he's who came to my mind while watching the game sunday
isn’t he their third string quarterback right now???? why would they be so unwilling to depart brennan they seem pretty set on campbell (I don’t know why though-he doesn’t impress me very much)
Right. Todd Collins is number 2
he wont cost as much as people think.. he as a 6th or 7th rounder
ugh.
Disagree
There was some talk that Jason Campbell wasn’t picking up the WCO very well. At the same time, Brennan was looking solid in preseason.
I would be shocked if they spent a 6th rounder on him in April then gave him away for a 6th rounder 6 months later when he has looked capable.
Remember, Campbell was a draft pick of the prior regime and sometimes new coaches aren’t as willing to give someone who isn’t their guy a shot. It looks like Campbell is thriving now but I wouldn’t even think about trading Brennan if I were in their position.
Probably Not
But he’s better than Thigpen and considering Croyle’s fragility we need somebody better than Thigpen to run the offense if/when Croyle and Huard go down again.
Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.
I wouldn't want any of them
Kelly Holcomb is Damon Huard, they were born on the say day for crying out loud. They could have been twins.
Cullpepper is not going to come back to football.
Gradkowski has a 49.0 passer rating this year in the preseason.
Tim Hasselbeck has a 32 passer rating in 07 preseason(last time he played).
Jared Lorenzen is a poor game manager and doesn’t have the mind to be a QB and makes aweful decisions.
Jamie Martin is on SFs active roster
Craig Nall hasn’t touched a Football since 07(does anyone know if he got injured, he was a decent backup, something must have happened).
Tim Rattay also hasn’t touch a football since 07
Lester Ricard hasn’t touched a football period
Brian St. Pierre is on the Cards active roster
Chris Weinke has also not touched a football this year, and he has thrown nearly twice as many ints as tds in his career.
I don’t think we can upgrade the current QB situation with any of the available free agents. I think we’ll have to wait until the end of the season to do anything with our QBs, because as pointed out, trading for one is going to be hard and we’ll likely have to mortgage the farm to do it. I think we should do the following:
1. Wait and get Losman(if Edwards doesn’t get knocked out) at the end of the season.
2. Draft a QB with out 2nd or 3rd round pick.
3. Resign Brodie to a reasonable contract.
4. Dump Huard and Pigpen
5. Draft 1. MLB, 2. QB, 3. DE(Pure speed rusher) , 4. RG(If herbie can play RT well), RT, C
6. Let Losman and Brodie battle it out to start and let our Rookie sit behind in the wings for the next year or two.
Now I know this thread is mainly about FA Qbs, but the main point of it is WHY, and this is my WHY. I just don’t think any of these guys is a head and shoulders upgrade to our offense. I also have to say I agree with ali_djoo; I too was impressed with Colt Brennan, he might be a flash in the pan, but his poise and confidence, even though it was against 2nd and 3rd defenses, was undeniable. When he was on the field there was excitement. I didn’t like him at all before the draft, I didn’t even like him in college, but I was impressed.
Wasn't Chris Simms just let go?
Is he completely washed up? Do you need a spleen to succeed as an NFL QB?
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
It's recommended
He wasn’t very good before the spleen injury so my best guess would be that he’s not very good now.
Tennessee media outlets are reporting that he’s likely to re-sign with the Titans sometime this week.
Think we could trade for Johnny Beck in Miami?
He was a Cam Cameron guy, and I don’t think they see him as the QB of the future anymore. I liked the way he looked in college at BYU.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
Agree
That would be a solution IMO. He’s obviously being phased out with current stop-gap Chad Pennington and supposed QBOTF Chad Henne.
Beck Would Be As Good A Choice As Any
It’s not like he’s going to be worse than Thigpen either. But it’s not like Miami’s just going to give him away…especially to a team as desperately in need as the Chiefs. And the fact that they didn’t waive him instead of McCown indicates that he may yet have a future in Miami so he may not be available at all.
Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.
Unlikely A Future In Miami
Parcells is known for having his guys. Beck was a 2nd rounder 2 years ago and is sitting behind Pennington and Henne.
I think he’s available…if the price is right. But what is that price?
No Clue
If they’ll take a 6th rounder for him, why not? But I doubt that it’ll be that cheap, especially for the Chiefs. Teams don’t cut favors for other teams in trades, especially when the team looking for a player is desperate.
Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.
I think its the going rate for an unproven young QB like Beck
Ryan Grant was dealt for a 6th rounder. I know he’s a RB, but its a similar situation. QB Brooks Bollinger was dealt for a 7th rounder last year. Most young backup players that are dealt seem to go for 6th/7th rounders.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
Young QBs Get A Higher Premium
Running backs get traded cheaply because running backs aren’t that tough to find. QBs, on the other hand, are.
Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.
Sure
I don’t really think it would take more than a 4th rounder, and you could probably get him for a 6th. Who knows though, we don’t even know if Miami would be willing to deal him. Just throwing out ideas. Not like Carl will do any of this. Its Brodie, Brodie, Brodie all the way.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
Agreed
I’d say that Beck would be worth a fourth-rounder. But even though he was a Cameron guy, he was still a 2nd round pick a year ago so they may not want to deal him that cheaply.
And again, we’re desperate for a QB and everybody in the league (except apparently Carl and Herm) knows it…that’s always going to drive the price up.
Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.
I Like That
When Charles Johnson blew by McIntosh, Crewe would have nailed him right in the nuts…thereby negating the pass-rush from the right :)
Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.
Derek Anderson
Cleveland seems eager to get Quinn on the field. Anderson has shown flashes of being spectacular, plus he’s huge so durability won’t be an issue and he’s young. I have no idea what it would take to get him and lord knows we don’t have much trade bait but I’d love to see him in Red and Gold.
Answer: 51%
Question: What is Derek Anderson’s completion percentage this year while throwing to Braylon Edwards and Kellen Winslow.
Derek Anderson’s performance this year makes it appear as if 2007 was a fluke. He’s not worth a draft pick, and Cleveland probably won’t be that interested in dealing him anyway since they’ll need him again if they put in Quinn and Quinn flames out.
Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.
UC's On Jeopardy
Ugh…I didn’t realize it was that low.
They have signed on for two more years and Quinn has proven nothing so I would imagine Anderson stays for another year.
If you are looking for a cheap trade
I have suggested it before, Erik Ainge. In the senior bowl he looked like the best QB on the field, you know game manager ball protecter. Buried on the Jets roster I believe. Oh nevermind, I had a smartass comment there, but I will leave it alone.
Hmm
Erik Ainge, Matt Flynn, Brian Brohm, Troy Smith, Colt Brennan (Honestly how much could he be, he was a 6th round or 7th round pick), David Carr, Jeff Garcia, Dare I Say Rex Grossman, Drew Stanton, Sage Rosenfels, John Beck, Chad Henne, John David Booty, Kellen Clemens, AJ Feeley, Charlie Fry, Seneca Wallace, Chris Simms
99% of these have to be acquired through trades but most shouldnt cost much at all
ugh.
Honestly though
he did lead his team to like a 13-3 or 14-2 record a couple years ago.. (albeit on the defenses shoulders) but he played exceptional for the first half of that season.. and hey. is he better than thigpen – yes.. huard – yes.. croyle – most likely.
ugh.
More Accurately
The 2006 Bears went to the Super Bowl despite having Grossman at QB.
He reeks. He’s much worse than Huard and about comparable to Croyle last year (and he’s been in the league for five years already).
Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.
I puke in my mouth
Everytime I hear Rex Grossman’s name mentioned in the same sentence as Kansas City. I lived 45 minutes away from Packer stadium my whole life (up to 2 years ago). I’ve seen him play against GB 4 times. He is in my opion a downgrade from Pigpen. He is not confident, and most importantly does not have the confidence of his team. The defense winces every time he steps on the field. His worst game against GB was the year of CHI’s superbowl run, last week of the season. He was 2 for 12, for 33 yards and 3 picks, in week 17. If memory serves he was pulled from the game and there were serious doubts if he would start in their post-season games. We don’t need that kind of guy on our team. PERIOD! ( I hate using caps, but I feel in this case it is necessary)
Going Down The List
Ainge – QB of the future behind Favre (because Clemens is horrible)
Flynn – primary backup to Rodgers and would cost too much
Brohm – potential QB of the future for Green Bay and would cost too much
Smith – questionable NFL ability and primary backup to Flacco
Brennan – potential QB of the future and possible starter if Campbell gets injured again
Carr – short term solution, primary backup to Eli, not worth what it would take in trade
Garcia – ancient, injury-prone, possibly injured, horrible 2008 performance, now Tampa’s starter
Grossman – NOT JUST NO, BUT HELL NO!!!
Stanton – possible starter in Detroit next week
Rosenfels – primary backup to Schaub, too much in trade, questionable upgrade
Beck – worthwhile trade option if we can get him cheap
Henne – QBOTF for Parcells, plus he was a mediocre QB at Michigan so no guarantee he’ll be good in pros
Clemens – Terrible QB, no accuracy, not an upgrade
Feeley – blah, would cost too much in trade
Frye – terrible QB in Cleveland, questionable ability
Wallace – scrambling QB who’s possibly a better receiver than QB
Simms – possibly washed up due to injuries, wasn’t that good before, available as free agent currently but may not be interested in coming here.
Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.
Seems like
You’re going out of your way to find reasons to poo-poo every idea, rather than looking at each idea objectively.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
Objectively
Most of those guys either stink or are unlikely to be available at a price we want.
Of course, I don’t know for a fact that those guys are unavailable at a price we want, since I’m not the GM so I’m not able to call those teams and find out, thus I have to go with an educated guess about their value on the trade market. And except in a few rare circumstances teams don’t give up on QBs cheaply unless either the QB is a) not very good or b) on the outs with the coaching staff.
If we were really desperate, I’d say snag Andre Woodson from the Giants, or grab a QB off someone else’s practice squad. You may also have noticed that I didn’t poo-poo trading for John Beck. If we could get him for a second rounder or cheaper I’d be fine with that.
Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.
Also
In addition to being open to the idea of trading for Beck (which I wrote a piece about about a month ago), I also wrote a piece two weeks ago plugging a trade for Brian Brohm. We discussed it with the guys at SB Nation’s Packers blog and they noted that historically it’s not the kind of deal that Ted Thompson goes for.
Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.
Gradkowski
If he’s not currently on somebody’s roster it wouldn’t hurt to bring him in and run him through a try-out. He’s young and showed some flashes of being good. He would fit the mold of what we’re trying to do and wouldn’t cost a draft pick. What could it hurt? I’m not sold on him being our savior, but he might (would) be an upgrade. Beck is interesting, though I can’t say I ever actually watched him play. I still think we might be able to swing a decent trade for Ainge or Brohm, but these three are off-limits for this exercise because they would require a trade. Of the choices here, I’d say Gradkowski fits the redbuilding, fishing-in-the-smaller-schools mode the Chiefs are taking.
Andre' Woodson
He is on the Giants practice squad, just sign him to the 53. Cut Nap or Huard.
Culpepper's best name on the list
And while we know his negatives, I think hypothetically Culpepper would have been the best QB on the list had he been given a full year w/ the Chiefs. He could have walked into KC and had an opportunity to be “the man” just like he wants to be. I think with just his arm strength and experience it’d be a vast upgrade to where we’re sitting now. I for whatever reason could have seen him bond w/ Bowe and create a connection. But we also know that Dante wouldnt be buying this losing BS nor stand for Herm’s and not let the media hear about it…
Gradkowski would be second best on this list but I think Ingle Martin is better than he is. Didn’t we sign him or does he just fill out a #15 jersey good? No sense in having 4 QB’s on a 54 man roster so I don’t know why we signed him if we’re not gonna use him.
Craig Nall would be third on this lost. Nall either has a shitty agent or has came to terms with himself
Everybody else on this list I wouldn’t want to see near a Chiefs uniform. (The freakin’ Pilsbury throwboy!?) One free agent that was omitted from the list was Quinn Gray who isn’t anything special but better than majority of the FA’s listed
As for Colt Brennan, what y’all are seeing that we want from him is truly Jim Zorn and not Colt Brennan. Not to discredit him because I do believe he has the tools to be a successful QB, but he’s simply working with the best in the biz’. What they got going at Washington is state-of-the-art stuff and their QB development is parallel to none. You plug Croyle, Tarvaris Jackson, and a long list of other rookie or young QB’s into Zorn’s program and you’ll get the best out of them. I’ve learned so much this season that the game is coaching and specifically w/ QB’s if they don’t receive the right tutelage and coaching on how to transition into the game they’re essentially wasted talent. We’ve seen it time and time again and thats why we CANNOT (as it stands with the office we have now) draft a QB 1st round next year! It will hurt us too much and set us back further from righting this ship
The best idea I’ve heard so far is Brian Brohm. I know its out of bounds but if they demonstarted capacity or willingness to go after Quinn they should be able to do the same to Brohm. And he’s actually available. The way things are going in Green Bay though I think if McCarthy before the deadline traded Brohm away people would want his head on a plate. But really, is Brohm just an insurance policy on their Aaron Rodgers plan? If he doesnt turn out to be the Hall of Famer they think he is, they have a talented kid in the wings who might work out? I think Rodgers will be the man for some time to come in Green Bay so to me this at least puts an expiration date on Brohm’s time in Green Bay
Brett Ratliff is another Jets QB worth mentioning. Threw the ball well in the preseason and is either their 3rd or 4th stringer. Undrafted free agent from Utah. You think Herm really wants to be placing any calls back to NY for help? Nahhhhhh….
Andre Woodson is a BIG PROJECT. One I doubt we’re capable of handling….
…..I wonder if teams with depth at QB position would actually be proactive in negotiating w/ us considering the good picks we’re expected to receive in upcoming draft?
by KansasCityShuffle on Oct 6, 2008 7:35 PM CDT reply actions
Brohm
We discussed Brohm with the Packers fan site on SB Nation and they noted that a trade was an unlikely scenario because it would likely take a first-rounder to cut Brohm loose and Ted Thompson’s history indicates an unwillingness to give up on his players too soon or to trade into the top five picks. I like Brohm too (wrote a piece about how much I liked him), but I don’t think he’s actually available for us.
Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.
I kept abreast
of both threads. Thanks for pointing them out possibly for others, but in bringing up the Brohm idea it was more a H/T to UCrawford. It was articulated nicely and considering both our situations it almost seems tangible. I wouldn’t even mind parting with a 1st rounder as it may potentailly save us from a stupid contract while acquiring us a franchise QB. Then again we could use 1st round talent all over the field…
by KansasCityShuffle on Oct 6, 2008 10:33 PM CDT up reply actions
It's getting to the point
Where I think snagging a DE with our top 5 pick is the way to go.
by Joel Thorman on Oct 6, 2008 10:37 PM CDT up reply actions
In doing so
we’d be succombing to the opinion our 1st pick 3 drafts ago is a BUST. And if so, why should the parties responsbile for selecting him be trusted to select another?
…Its just hard for me to swallow a rebuilding mode pill when only a few seasons deep into it we’re being told the draft picks we did have were wasted.
by KansasCityShuffle on Oct 6, 2008 10:52 PM CDT up reply actions
How many picks on average end up be OK or a bust?
Help me out stat people…You can’t sit there and not draft a need just because you drafted it high a few years ago. If it is a need, then it is a need. Pass rush DE is a need. Not only did we use a 1st on Hali, we used a 2nd on McBride. I am not giving up on either, but if we are drafting 2nd, and Oher is gone, Johnson makes perfect sense.
I would guess
Somewhat educated guess, that usually about half (maybe a little less) of the 1st rounders are busts. Either because they’re terrible and busts in their own right or average players that never warranted a 1st round pick.
by Joel Thorman on Oct 6, 2008 11:03 PM CDT up reply actions
Not necessarily a bust
Hali wasn’t on many teams’ radar as a 1st rounder. Keep Tamba on the other side where he’s shown he can play.
But solid point – I’m usually pretty cognizant of the consequences of drafting players.
by Joel Thorman on Oct 6, 2008 11:01 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Yeah, I wouldn't characterize Hali as a bust
If you look at his stats, he has been ok. Struggled this year, but by all accounts is playing hurt. Hard to be a pass rush DE when you are playing slow.
2 1st Rounders, a 2nd Rounder,and a 3rd rounder
compose our defensive line. How many more will it take for a “pass rush”? I guess I’m saying maybe if the previous picks do their jobs we wouldn’t be discussing it…..
by KansasCityShuffle on Oct 6, 2008 11:06 PM CDT up reply actions
Great Point
Dorsey will come along. Tank is looking good. Hali seems fit to be a complementary DE. We’re missing a stud DE which in a league that is shifting its focus to the passing game should be an absolute must.
by Joel Thorman on Oct 6, 2008 11:07 PM CDT up reply actions
Don't get me wrong
I love everyone of our picks and on paper, in my eyes, our D Line is stacked. I wouldn’t want to trade a single one of them (especially Hali – he’s no bust) but so far there has been a big gap between their play now and their potentail
by KansasCityShuffle on Oct 6, 2008 11:13 PM CDT up reply actions
I personally had high hopes
for all of these guys this year. I kept saying that our D will be good, and it will be good enough to keep us in the game! I WAS WRONG.
I very much agree
I believe you have to look at value as to where you are picking. DE and QB, Franchise LT, Stud Corner(maybe) would all be OK with a top 5 pick. Rush DE’s get harder to come across as the Draft goes along. You can find good ones in later rounds, obviously, such as Kendall Langford this year. I know that everyone is anti QB in the first round, but it is too early to know how we will feel about this draft class until next year. I think that there are 3 can’t miss prospects: Oher, Johnson, Crabtree. Great draft class overall, maybe better than last year. Unless we get a caretaker like Losman, I think we have to take on chance on a 1st day pick (1st, 2nd, or 3rd round) quarterback and hope that his middle name is magic.
I Don't Think There Are Any First Round Talents At QB
But I think there are definitely first day talents out there. And I think we need to grab a QB prospect in this draft, as well as a caretaker via free agency.
Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.
I think a drafted prospects
success will hinge on singing a caretaker. If we don’t get a veteran in place of Croyle on the depth chart we’d be just throwing fresh meat to the wolves. Bringing Pennington in was not only huge for Miami in its immediate returns but specifically for the development of Henne I think it will be huge.
by KansasCityShuffle on Oct 6, 2008 11:00 PM CDT up reply actions
Still need the upper echelon
One might argue we still need a top pick out of the talent pool for QB’s next year, so that may confine this pick to the 2nd-3rd rounds, right? Or should we have no quams w/ taking a late rounder and risk catching a Derek Anderson or Colt Brennan or just another James Killian
by KansasCityShuffle on Oct 6, 2008 11:24 PM CDT up reply actions
Unfortunately
It is a gamble either way. But you can’t win if you don’t play! We have to put our chips on the table sooner or later. Keep in mind that Croyle was a 3rd rounder. But there is historically a lot of 1st round busts. Which way do we go?
Take a shot at another Croyle
I personally would like Cullen Harper in KC. Graham Harrell in later rounds.
For the record, Croyle was a good pick. I liked drafting him where we did and have no regrets about it. Just the way we brought him along I have..
by KansasCityShuffle on Oct 6, 2008 11:39 PM CDT up reply actions
You know
I am not a Croyle fan. The big thing that bugs me is that I think he has “happy feet”. Doesn’t stay calm, set his feet, and make the throw. You gotta have that to be an NFL quarterback. The only time I have seen that out of Croyle was the first preseason game. I hear that in practice he is an NFL QB. It is time to take the training wheels off this guy and let him loose. I would throw caution to the wind against the Titans and pass, pass, pass. We are definitely not going to be able to run.
Not a fan per se
But am because he is QB for the Chiefs. Wouldn’t have been if he wasn’t drafted, but because he was I’ve looked into him and I think he was a calculated risk. One worth the gamble. Whereas with 1st round picks you better be damn sure they’re worth their billing
by KansasCityShuffle on Oct 6, 2008 11:53 PM CDT up reply actions
If Bradford
goes on and keeps pace with the #’s he having and decides to declare for next years draft, would he be 1st round material in your eyes? Better yet, is he a better prospect that Matt Ryan?
by KansasCityShuffle on Oct 6, 2008 11:47 PM CDT up reply actions
I think that was directed at UC
but I love Bradford. I think he could be a good NFL quarterback, and if he contends for a Nat’l Championship I think his stock will rise. I personally wanted us to draft Ryan, and I do think Bradford could be every bit as good as him. I think Ryan will be no worse than Matt Hassleback. All conjecture of course.
Some didnt think Ryan would be good
but I agree w/ Pete King’s assessment completely that was in MMQB. In my eyes he’s the prototypical QB and I would love for us to find our equivalent in the draft. Bradford has the build along with the tools and it would be nice to keep him playing ball in the Heartland. The Hasslebeck analogy fits!
by KansasCityShuffle on Oct 6, 2008 11:58 PM CDT up reply actions
You're right
If it’s BPA, it’s BPA…
We definitely need pass rush. No question there.
I think you’re being realistic about picking 2nd-3rd, moreso than the 5th we were projecting after the Broncos game ; ^ ) I would personally love Oher!
by KansasCityShuffle on Oct 6, 2008 11:02 PM CDT up reply actions
Top 5
BPA can address many needs for us. But I think establishing a pass rush should be an absolute priority. It’s up there with O-line.
by Joel Thorman on Oct 6, 2008 11:06 PM CDT up reply actions
If our offense can stay on the field longer..
the defense will remain durable and fresh. But if we have no pass or block protection that defense is going to spend a lot of minutes on the field. Basically, I think we can go further right now with a new RT than we can with a new DE. We’ve for the most part rehauled the D Line, not so much the O Line..
by KansasCityShuffle on Oct 6, 2008 11:09 PM CDT up reply actions
The argument against that
Would be that the drop off from a top 5 DE to a 2nd round DE is larger than a top 5 RT to a 2nd round RT.
by Joel Thorman on Oct 6, 2008 11:12 PM CDT up reply actions
PT is right
when he says we shouldn’t reach for a RT. Oher falling in our lap might actually make for an interesting trade. Albert will be the real deal at LT.
I'm not asking for reaching
that’s the whole enchilada w/ Hali, right?
I’m just asking for whats on our lap. And if the second pick came to us and HYPOTHETICALLY Oher & Johnson are both left, I think we have greater demand for a RT of Oher’s talent (yes, I know he plays Left g’dmanit) than we do a DE of Johnsons
by KansasCityShuffle on Oct 6, 2008 11:17 PM CDT up reply actions
Great argument
either way. A lot of the decision will rely on what we think quality wise we will be able to get later in the draft. Everyone knew we needed O line more than anything this year, we took Dorsey because he was too good a prospect to pass on even though we had just drafted Tank. But we knew we could get a quality LT with our 2nd 1st round pick.
I liked Brohm quite a bit
Thought we should have grabbed him in the draft.
I really doubt any team will trade a QB they just drafted this past year. You’re going to have to look for someone that has been around for a few years. The most likely guys to be dealt are the ones that were drafted by a previous administration.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
Beck's About It As Far As That Goes
And Parcells still liked him enough to keep him over McCown. But if the Chiefs could snag Beck for a second rounder or lower I’d say they probably made a good trade.
Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.
Hey PT
I meant to tell you earlier that this was a great post. Very provocative and therapuetic!
But our options don’t seem very encouraging.
I guess I don't really get the argumetnt
“It would cost too much in a trade to pick him up”. Most backup QBs only require a 4th rounder or less, and really, is our 4th round pick that valuable? Are we saving it so we can draft a backup safety or reserve offensive lineman? This is our QB we’re talking about, the most important position on the field. It is obvious we need to upgrade, and if that means giving up a 4th round pick and even another draft pick, I think its probably worth it.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
You've Got To Distinguish The Quality Of The Backup
Most backup QBs only require a 4th rounder or less, and really, is our 4th round pick that valuable?
What kind of backup are you talking about, though? Todd Collins? Damon Huard? Trent Green after he was washed up? Some guy in his 30s? Sure you could get players like that for a 4th rounder or lower, but they’re either one year rentals, questionable talents or bench players so you’re better off keeping the pick unless a bench player is going to help you make a playoff run. If you want somebody with potential you’ve got to pay more…usually a lot more. Look at Favre in Green Bay…the Packers had to pay a 1st rounder for him from the Falcons and Jerry Glanville hated him (four pass attempts during his time in Atlanta).
Nobody’s trading a QB they think can be any good for a second day pick unless it’s a desperation trade on their part. And they’re especially not going to do it when the other team is in desperate straits for a QB (like we are now).
Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.
Well lets look at the record
Here’s what I could find:
QBs traded for draft picks:
2009 – Brett Favre – 4th round (conditional)
Kelly Holcomb (undisclosed?)
Brian Griese (undisclosed?)
Josh McNown (undisclosed?)
2008 – Matt Schaub – swap of 1st rounders, two 2nd round picks
Trent Green – 5th round
Charlie Frye – 6th round
Brooks Bollinger – 7th round
Ryan Fitzpatrick – 7th round
2007 – Steve McNair – 4th round
Joey Harrington – 5th round
2006 – Daunte Culpepper – 2nd round
2005 – AJ Feely – 2nd round
Drew Henson – 3rd round
Billy Volek – 6th round
2004 – Mark Brunell – 3rd round
2003 –
Cade McNown – 6th round
Todd Bouman – 6th round
Sage Rosenfels – 7th round
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
Most Fit The Pattern I Described
The trade for Favre could actually go up to a 1st rounder and has a great chance of being a 2nd rounder (if the Jets make the playoffs). McNair was a dump trade, same with Frye (who’s done nothing to indicate he’s starting material). Rosenfels will cost us much more than a 7th rounder now. Most of the players who were grabbed with 2nd day picks were scrubs or guys at the end of their careers. Volek was the only real steal on that list.
I think your years are off on some of those players.
Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.
Correction
Volek and Rosenfels were the only real steals on that list.
That would mean that by offering a 2nd day pick we’ve got about a 20% chance of landing a QB who’s any good.
Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.
The years
Are the draft in which the team was compensated, not when the player was traded.
Yea, I’m not saying our odds of picking up a stud QB are very good, I’m talking more about getting a guy with some limited upside (unlike Huard) who can stay healthy (unlike Croyle) and doesn’t absolutely suck (unlike Thigpen). Not a high standard, I know, and maybe we’re better off just drafting a QB high (not a real fan of that, but reasonable minds can differ) or bringing in a FA QB. I just think taking a flyer, even if its 20% (which is probably as high or higher than the success rate of the typical second day draft pick) is worth taking at this point.
Is it a solution? No. But its a step in the right direction IMO.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
I Can See Your Point
But I think we’re just as well off keeping the draft pick. Besides, it would still be a bad idea this year mainly because I don’t think anyone’s going to be productive behind that line with the offense Herm is running and there’s an excellent chance they get knocked out too (which leaves us without a QB and a draft pick). I agree that Huard looked terrible, but then who hasn’t looked terrible this season at QB for us? Most of the other options would be more of the same (except Beck and probably Brohm, neither of whom may be available).
The problems are just so much deeper than QB for this team that I can’t see trading for a QB as being a good idea. Until the offensive line issues are addressed, we might as well let Huard and Croyle take a beating, or toss Ingle Martin out there to see what he’s got.
Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.
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