Morning Update (What They're Saying Edition)
by Joel Thorman on Oct 6, 2008 7:52 AM CDT
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PrintThe Chiefs’ biggest debacle so far hasn’t been losing to the Patriots, Raiders, Falcons or Panthers. It was letting Pennington get away. He wanted to come to Kansas City, but the Chiefs didn’t pull the trigger. Whether it was a coaching thing or a management thing, the bottom line is this season could have been different if Pennington was a Chief and not a Dolphin.
I definitely see the argument here. But what good is reliving the past going to do?
Well, it was fitting that this was the fifth week of the season because the Chiefs have now gone through all five stages of grief. There seemed to be no denial left in the locker room after the Chiefs’ nauseating 34-0 loss Sunday to Carolina. There wasn’t much anger. The Chiefs’ players were not in the mood for bargaining, and few players even seem very depressed.
Uh oh. When the anger and depression after a devastating loss isn't there, what's next?
Then again, the Chiefs are approaching the season’s midway point, and other than the Denver victory, there haven’t been many indications the defense can string together decent performances, let alone good ones.
It's getting to (or gotten to rather) the point where we really need to question the defense. That was our one area where we saw the potential last year. Even if it is a rebuilding year, the run defense is a major cause for concern for me.
The Red Zone on Tony Gonzalez's record breaking catch:
The broken record was considerably quieter than it might have been in Kansas City, where last week Arrowhead Stadium officials had planned to stop the game and acknowledge the 12-year veteran.
Ugh. After a game like this I feel sick to my stomach Tony couldn't break it at home. Although I will tell people I'm fine if he wants to go to a contender, I can't fathom this team without him.
“I’ve seen it coming. There are certain things in a game that you as a player know what’s going to happen. They’re going to gang up on the run because of the success we had the week before. That’s what you’ve got to live with. You’ve got to take it in stride and hopefully do better next week. This is a young team, and this is what happens when you rebuild.”
Somewhere in the back of my mind I wanted to see LJ get mad. I wanted him to be pissed. This lack of anger at a pathetic performance like this really makes me wonder what the state of the locker room is. At some point, being a "players coach" stops being a good thing, especially when you look around and can't pinpoint just one problem. It's the whole team.
All I'm looking for is a little accountability and for MY TEAM that's not too much to ask.
What about you - does it worry you that even LJ isn't throwing a hissy fit after a loss like this?
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The Apathy
Is usually an indication that the players have just written off the season, they’re tuning out the coach and no longer care. So I suspect we can see a lot more of these games and a lot fewer games like Denver.
Especially against the Titans…the Panthers are a solid defensive team and they looked like the best defense in the NFL out there (129 yards of total offense is almost impossible to hold a team to). The Titans are an outstanding defense and I imagine that Week 6 is going to be even worse.
I don’t think there’s much point in sugarcoating it…Herm needs to go. He’s a terrible coach, he can’t motivate these players to perform and we should question if these young players are ever going to develop while he’s the one in charge. My suspicion is that they won’t.
Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.
I've tried
To keep the open mind, a DJ-perspective if you will. But it’s just getting harder and harder.
I know this thing takes a long time but it really makes me wonder what is going through the heads of all the players.
Have to agree
I feel like there is a lot of potential with the players on this team. Like they could be very good if they had the right leadership, and I don’t see that. Where are our leaders? Where are you Donnie Edwards? I know you’re hurt, but you’re a leader and we need you to step in and lead this defense. I know, I know, we’re trying to let DJ take over, but some players are great athletes while others are born leaders. Donnie, you’re a leader; show it. Our offense is lost. There is nobody that can lead this offense. Do we turn to LJ? Do we really want the other players emulating THAT guy? No. Our QBs? Hell no. Huard can guide an offense, but not LEAD it. Croyle and Thigpen? Not a chance. Pennigton would have been a good acquisition, but we dropped the ball. And this is to say nothing of our coaches. Our players don’t look like they have any idea what they’re doing. Yes, they’re young, but that just means our coaches need to…you know, coach them. Someone, somewhere has to be held accountable. It should start with the coaches. Why is it that we can draft promising talent but not train them how to play to their highest level? And now the players don’t even care, they’ve written this season off. And that, too, should be put on the shoulders of the coaching staff.
But can you motivate players when they don't want to be motivated?
Don't forget to send your broken maples to the US Forest Service.
Good Coaches Find A Way
Most players in the NFL aren’t inherently malcontents or lazy…they’ll put out an effort if they believe the coaching staff is competent and if the coaches are doing what they can to win games (and because their future earnings often depend on their level of performance). When the team’s giving up en masse, especially this early in the season, that’s a sign that they don’t have any faith in the game plan and/or the coaching staff’s ability and they’re just trying to make it through the year. I think that their postgame reactions or resignation are a clear cut indication that Herm has lost the locker room.
On the flip side, even in the unlikely scenario that the problem was the players’ attitudes because they’re all malcontents, that would still be the coaching staff’s fault because these are all players that the coaching staff and our GM brought in. So either the coaching staff is incapable of motivating good players or the coaching staff has filled the locker room with bad players, but either way the coaching staff are at fault for the apathy and lack of motivation in the locker room. So it’s the coaching staff that needs to change.
Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.
And By "Coaching Staff"
I mean Herm.
I’m willing to consider the possibility that the other coaches aren’t as incompetent as the on-field results indicate.
Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.
It's impolite to exclude people
True, the motivation of the team as a whole has to start with the head coach, but the others are proving woefully inept at their designated realms of responsibility. What happened to Gunn’s defense? I remember when Cunningham’s defenses could dominate opponents. Is it that he bound by Herm’s cover 2 scheme, or has he just completely lost his touch? He used to specialize in building linebackers and rushing the passer; now our LBs are mostly soft and our blitzes are completely ineffective. Again, I don’t know enough to say this is a result of running cover 2 or not (enlighten me). And our offense??? We are lacking talent on the line and at QB but we have stars at a number of ‘skill’ positions. We didn’t manage to put up any points. I’d say the goose-egg is a good indication of a poorly planned and poorly executed offensive scheme. Again, this may be a result of Herm’s over-involvement, but then again…It may just be incompetence on the part of the offensive coordinator.
No Clue What's Going On With The Others
But Chan Gailey wasn’t this bad as an offensive coordinator in Dallas or Pittsburgh, and I know that Gunther wasn’t this bad as a coordinator in non-Tampa 2 defenses in K.C. so I’m perfectly happy with the Chiefs just firing one guy (Herm) so we can see what the offense looks like without him calling the shots.
And Carl would have to go too. That should go without saying. If Herm’s gone the last thing we want is Carl picking the next guy, especially since it’s unlikely that we’ll retain him as a GM after 2009 and we don’t want to saddle the next GM with Carl’s hire.
Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.
Correction
so we can see what the offense and defense looks like without him calling the shots.
Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.
How can
the players attitiude change so drastically just one game after such a big win ? I don’t buy it. I can’t imagine the players being anything but positive going into that game. I agree the team did not look prepared for the Panthers and yes, that’s on the coaches. But are we so bad – talent wise – that even a good game plan / prep would have made a difference – quite possibly.
That said – I agree Herm needs to go – so when do you pull the pin on him ?? Do we promote one of our current coaches for the remainder of the season ?? I can’t imagine any potential head coach wanting this job right now.
I think we’re stuck w/ Herm AND Carl through this season.
Pennington wanted to be a starter
I don’t think he was going to come to KC to be a backup to Brodie Croyle and that is exactly what would’ve happened. The contracts offered were virtually the same (I think MIA went to $11M and we didn’t) but the premium on the deal was that he would be the starter. Looks like they made a good decision.
Bob Gretz
“Everyone, including the Chiefs themselves has grown tired of "being a young team" as a catch-all excuse for what happens. There is no excuse for what happened in Carolina. The Chiefs should be beyond this type of performance. Carolina is a good football team, and again, even on a good day for the red and gold, the Panthers may have won. But the Panthers barely worked up a sweat because the Chiefs kept handing them opportunity after opportunity.”
A good QB would make a difference
Watching Huard reminded me of the Panthers last season with David Carr at the helm. Constant three and outs as he couldn’t run the offense with confidence.
I blog the Carolina Panthers at www.catscratchreader.com
It doesn't help when on the first passing play of the game (was it the first)
your right tackle misses a block by five feet and you get destroyed. He looked scared all day and he had good reason to be scared.
Don't forget to send your broken maples to the US Forest Service.
Huard
No matter who the QB is – if we lose they get the blame. I truly believe that Damon Huard is our best QB. Thigpen throws uncatchable balls way too hard. Croyle always gets hurt and can’t win a game. Huard is smart and always gives us a chance to win. The problem yesterday is our OLine was terrible. We couldn’t run the ball, Huard had 0 time to pass the ball. It was just a pathetic pathetic performance. I think the root of our problem is much much deeper than the QB.
Finally
Someone who sees the problem for what it is…. No Q.B. is going to be able to make a difference right now. And Pennington – seriously ?? He’s proven to be as fragile as they come. His arm certainly isn’t any better than Huards – If I recall correctly, didn’t “Broadway Joe” call Pennington a Passer not a Thrower (okay he was pretty buzzed at the time but still…….). This is the first year I can recall that Pennington has been injured – at least so far….
No, our O-Line is the problem not our Q.B.
It's the right side of the line, right?
Watching Carolina move the ball on us early with all those runs…. solo blocks, chip and move to the second level… no double teams. Why can’t we ever block like that?
Don't forget to send your broken maples to the US Forest Service.
Yes it's mainly the right side (MacIntosh / Jones)
Brandon Albert (left tackle) isn’t quite yet the stud that we expect he will be. We’ll get better – just not this year
Players Coach, we have been down that road before, take a look...
“He’s the greatest guy I ever played for and its just a shame we didn’t perform better for him. They should have fired us instead of him.” Mike Livingston former KC Chiefs Quarterback, on the firing of Paul Wiggin. source, KC Chiefs Encyclopedia, 2nd edition.
Paul Wiggin hired as head coach of the Kansas City Chiefs on January 23, 1975. After compiling an 11-24 mark in less than three seasons, Wiggin was fired following a 44-7 loss against his old team, the Browns, on October 30, 1977.
His season were:
1975 /5-9
1976 /5-9
1977 /2-12 (he was fired after the 8th game, 1-7)
source, Wikipedia
Could we see a repeat?
Spend free agency money and draft picks to...
Get the offensive lines….get LG, C, RG, RT at early rounds….if any QB, include Thigpen, get 5 seconds time to throw, He will be All Star
AD
Heh.
Kansas City is terrible. The Chiefs are one of the worst football teams you have ever seen, and I don’t care how old you are. The Carolina Panthers were supposed to beat them. But they weren’t supposed to beat them like this.
Taken from the Charlotte Observer. I think it’s obvious this team is absolutely pathetic.
have you seen my baseball?
Quote That Summed The Game Up
"Denver allowed Kansas City hope," cornerback Ken Lucas says about the Chiefs inexplicable victory against the Broncos last week. "We went out there from the start of the game and took all hope away and didn’t give them a chance to feel like they had a chance."
Translation: We beat them like rented mules because they’re a garbage football team and they needed to know it.
Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.
Isn't that what we use to do to Oakland?
I can still see Marty telling the players, “take away their will to win the game early and they will lay down and die”. Well actually I put it into my own words. But he did say something to the effect.
Pretty Much
That’s why Marty won 80% of the Chief’s games against Oakland (while the rest of the league had about a .450 win percentage against the Raiders).
Coincidentally, since Marty left KC, the rest of the league’s won 59% of the time against the Raiders while the Chiefs have won 61% of the time (a statistically insignificant difference)…so the criticisms that Carl owes his success to Marty have quite a bit to them.
Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.
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