Give Herm a break
by KCCheeze on Oct 26, 2008 6:10 PM CDT
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PrintOk I have sat here and watched everyone on this forum berade herm for the past few weeks. These are the same fans who claimed they were in agreeance with the rebuild and that they knew it was going to be a tough season. now when the ugly part of the rebuild rears its head everyione goes postal and blames Herm.
Take a minute to look at what he has had to work with. Croyle goes out halfway through the opening game and we have had to play the QB carousel for every game since. I think today was the first game we had the same QB stay in the entire game. We haev so many rookies and inexperienced players that you have to know this is going to happen. You cannot blame herm because his QB can't stay healthy and Huard is just horrible at his age.
I for one am seeing good signs from this team. They still can't stop the run but they are gettig better. Herm will get them on track and mark my words next year they will be much better and eveyone will be praising him. Let the season finish and see what transpires before you all shout "fire Herm" less than halfway through a truly rebuilding season.
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of Arrowhead Pride's writers or editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of Arrowhead Pride writers or editors.
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Here is why..........
I as well as most Chiefs fans are all about rebuilding on the cornerstones of youth. Problem is, without good coaching youth will never be served. Herm made a clear statement today he didn’t trust his young HAND PICKED qb to toss a quick three yard pass for a first down with four to go in the fourth. This team will only ever be as good as their coach which is a fast train going nowhere with a blind engineer
"No good deed goes unpunished............."
Whoever
made the call not to throw with 4 min. left hopefully realizes it was the wrong call. I don’t see how you can’t throw it, we’d been doing it all day with success. The run game was going nowhere from the 1st quarter. that was absolutely the game breaker for us.
I'm pretty sure
Gailey made that call. I didn’t see Herm send in even one play – did you ??
Are you kidding me?
If he would have let Thigpen throw and he threw an incompletion or even worse a pick, you would be here blaming it on him. You can’t expect this team full of youngsters to play great at this point. they played great today.
Never said they didn't play well......
In fact I agree, but their hard work was snuffed by the decisions made by a conservative staff headed by who?? Thats right….Herm
"No good deed goes unpunished............."
But...
there are many other plays than run three times in the interior of the defense…like those great PA Boot plays they like Thiggy in so much…either dump it to the FB or TE OR jog for the first down urself…easy pickup…the return to HERMBALL blew the game…
Herm picks who dresses correct?
Herm picks AJ, Sacintosh on a weekly basis correct? So where does the blame lie for QB’s going down on a consistent basis. Herm chooses both schemes offensively, defensively, correct? His conservative game calling puts this team in a bad position, today when we were aggresive we moved the ball. It falls on the head coach.
No problem! Thank you
for serving our country!
Right on.
I think we showed that we have the players who may be able to develop into a good football team. I think that the schemes picked by Herm will continue to make things more difficult than they need to be for our team. Why did we go away from what was working at the end of the game? We could have won that game today. That would be a much better thing for this team to build on than just a close loss. Tyler looked good, but is he the answer? We still have a while to see if he is. I was encouraged by the players today, but was still left disappointed by the coaching.
by ryan_andersen98 on Oct 26, 2008 7:26 PM CDT up reply actions
I have been blaming Herm from day one
and I won’t change it now.
you herm apologists can suck up till your brown in the face. It doesn’t change the fact that herm can’t cut it. never has, never will.
i put this
game on the coaching staff, we should have ran the ball on 1st get the clock rolling, try a throw on 2nd see what happens, and if incomplete run on 3rd and get the clock going again, but i didnt even see the game clock get to 5 seconds we werent trying real hard to waste time
GIVE HIM A BREAK!?
like people have said above, he blew the game…running three times in the interior like that was when I knew we had no chance (with the way our defense was playing) …run PA BOOT!!!!!!! Easy first down….perfect down and distance…everything…ridiculous Hermball….“play to win the game” my ass
wow maybe you should be the coach
then we could all yell and call you a jackass when the players don’t perform. Gimme a break anyone can call plays after the game is over…idiot
And...
anyone can see three straight runs from lameass herm edwards trying to not lose…
I called this during the game thank you…i appreciate the grace of your delivery….you continue you great apologete of the all knowing Herm…who is the idiot?
...
i hate it when people bash playcalling…….if it works hes god….if not, hes an idiot…. it was a decent playcall, sometimes it doesnt work out, if that was L.J running, we woulda had a first down
well he's the guy who drafted some serious talent
his past 3 drafts have been pretty awsome look at the guys hes drafter…..Hali, Pollard, Page, Bowe, Tyler, Mcbride, Doresy, Albert, Flowers, Charles, Cottam, Carr
I bet an idiot couldnt have drafted like that
buuuuuut....
You could easily see the result that would come of these playcalls…Kolby had been doing awful all game…or at least…not enough to put the game in his hands…PA BOOT with the TE on a quick out is an EASY first down in that situation…NO QUESTION…
I would agree though that if it was LJ on those three carries it would have worked…but thats another part of the playcalling is based on your personnel…
There were many reasons we faded out of this game and lost but ONE of them is the most classic of all…We went away from what had worked earlier in the game…STICK WITH WHAT IS WORKING! ….it is the biggest mistake made in pro coaching…or any coaching for that matter
If he's tried the rollout
I honeslty wouldn’t be mad at him. You can’t try and run on 3rd and 2 when the entire defense knows you’re going to and you haven’t all day. We don’t have the personnel to do this. We hammered Herm in the Patriots game for not running it because we thought we had the personnel. We don’t. That was a passing down.
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by Ridiculous Matt on Oct 27, 2008 2:07 AM CDT up reply actions
Stop the insults
You clicked Ok when you signed for up AP, stating you wouldn’t insult anyone.
That goes for everyone.
by Chris Thorman on Oct 26, 2008 11:37 PM CDT up reply actions
Clarification
…my insult was to Herm (that makes it okay, haha)…not Cheezeman…im just very passionate about the playcallers falling into one of the biggest traps in football…playing conservative after you have built your lead playing aggressive…
Herm blew up the team
Fact of the matter is that you rebuild with a balance of veterans and rookies. Right now we have 32 players with 3 or less years of experience. Compound that with poor coaching and play calling on top of inept management and you have a recipe for disaster.
Now, for those that are the Kool-Aid drinkers…take off the rose colored glasses and understand that DE-NIAL isn’t a river in Egypt.
We’re 1-6 and you want to defend the coach?
For the Herm-a-fro-dites… what in all that is sane do you see has improved week to week?
Lastly, if you defend Herm after the fiasco of this year then I only have one quote:
“…what you’ve just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.”
word
so many places not filled and no reason to expect anyone currently associated with the team knows how to…..
Exactly
…if they want a warm body to fill a spot I’m available for the league minimum. They even moved Hali to give him a chance to improve his play and although on a couple of plays he did, he was still inefficient.
The Jets defense was horrible. We have 2 players of threat…Gonzo and Bowe. Aside from Cottoam catching a few balls, they could have double teamed them and the score would have been closer.
LASTLY…what does it say about the team when we couldn’t win a game where the opposing QB threw 3 INT’s? The only time I can recall that happening is when the other QB threw INT’s as well.
You can put whip cream and sprinkles on shit and it’s still shit.
Until the Chiefs can put points on the board and demolish the opponent and take away any thought of hope in winning a game it won’t matter. You cannot let up at any point in 60 minutes of play. You run up the score as much as you can…the true meaning of “you play to win the game”
KCHEEZE??
You are a KCCheezer to defend Herm AND his staff. Take off the blinders bro, the coaches are broke and they quit makin’ the parts…
"No good deed goes unpunished............."
I agree with most of what you have said but
there is some small improvements. Actually I see only one improvement and that is that Bradley and Cottam stepped up and got open. I know this is only one game but Bradley hasn’t been here that long and I think they are going to use Cottam more to see if they have a decent TE so they can trade Tony in the off season. If those two can continue their development and I think the offense will open up a little more. Thigpen showed today that he can throw even with a crappy line. Granted I did not see the game only listened to half and watch it on the NFL website for the first half. So I do not know exactly how good Thigpen looked as I remember him taking a 12 yard sack to get the Chiefs out of FG range. but the consensus seems to be that he was very good today.
So there you go one promising sign from this team. It is still all Herms fault though.
Agreed...
…but the point should be week-to-week improvement. Not stock market shit with the Chiefs. Down-Up-down-then small spikes-down.
True
I was just hoping for one thing that is improving. I guess we will see next week.
Agreed again
I won’t start spewing any hope about this team or the rebuilding mode unless they consistently build upon this week to week until the end of the year.
tyler thigpen can fool around with all the skeletons he wants
if he keep’s playing like that….we keep movin the ball….i loved the way we played today, too bad we couldnt pull out a win cause the way the AFC West is, we could have still had a shot for the playoffs….either way, hopefully Tamba is okay, cause he played sickkkk today…….good move by herm to move him to the left side again, cause thats where he plays best. Big ups to Wetherford for getitn a free piggy back ride from leon washington (the guy who was drafted with the pick we traded for herm btw)
Playoffs are you kidding me playoffs!
Don’t talk to me about playoffs! Jim Mora sr.!
Toilet Bowl
Chiefs Vs. Bengals….last game of the year. Mark your calender. I think that’s what he meant ;)
I heard on ESPN
we’re 1-6.
And three games out of first.
It’s not happening, I’m not suggesting it’s happening, I don’t want it to happen. I want to lose every single game from here on out like today, so we get the best possible pick. I’ll want them to win on gameday because I love them, but I want as good a pick as I can get.
I just think it’s insane that if we put up a four game win streak we’d be in the driver’s seat for the division title. God, the AFC West sucks right now.
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by Ridiculous Matt on Oct 27, 2008 2:10 AM CDT reply actions
I really want us to win about 3 or 4 more games from a draft standpoint. Not to get to the playoffs or anything like that. And certainly I still want Clark Hunt to be mad enough to let some heads roll. I just don’t want us to have a top 3 pick. Economically, and from a talent prospective, the first three picks are usually the most problematic in the draft. You usually wind up picking somebody you dont really need because you have to draft based on what’s available. They wind up holding out and you then have to over pay them to get them to show up to camp, usually late and out of shape. They, as a group ( I know there are exceptions) usually under perform until they get traded or signed by their second team. The quarterback is the lone exception to this rule, and while we do need a quarterback, and would love for us to get our Phillip Rivers or Eli Manning, I don’t think that any of the quarterbacks coming out this year will be worth anything above an eight or ninth pick. Trading down out of the top three in the last few years has been all but impossible because the teams realize that these picks are the most problematic in the whole draft.
by ryan_andersen98 on Oct 27, 2008 10:56 AM CDT up reply actions
I think if we win only 1-3 games, theres a better chance of Carl leaving early
If we win 4-6 games, more than likely assistant or position coaches will be leaving early.
"But what do I know, I’m like an empty room with a large ECHO"
We almost won
and someone wants to give Herm all the credit and lay off him? Well guess what….we lost and he deserves all the credit. Even it this team builds into something it will never be a contender because Herm coaches this team like battered husband syndrome. He coaches scared and you will never win in the playoffs coaching this way. We should have seen it coming the way he coached two years ago against the Colts in the playoffs.
Amen
Unbelievable how the Herm supporters aren’t heard from for weeks. Then ALL of a sudden the Chiefs show a little promise, STILL LOSE and they come running. It’s almost like they want to say “I told you so” but then bite their lip when they realize you can’t in good sense defend losing.
They don’t have an argument to save themselves let alone Herm and they expect us to forget and fill the stands.
It’s like an AA meeting sometimes except everyone is wearing Chiefs gear..
There is really nothing
In Herm’s past that shows it will get better either. Notice that there is always and excuse but never anyone owning this mess.
I've been right here
the whole time. Athough I’m not a huge Herm fan – I’m not about firing him. Just because I don’t stand up and beak-off incessantly about every single play call or personnel move doesn’t mean I’m a mushroom (living in the dark). I’m tired of seeing Herm being panned for every single move that this club makes. I like the balls it took to sit LJ even though he hasn’t been suspended by the league.
by HankerChief on Oct 27, 2008 10:19 AM CDT up reply actions
So I guess the play calling at the end of the game wasn't his fault either.
That’s fine…blame Gailey or Carl or Clark or whoever else you want. The preparation and calls on the field rest entirely on the HC IMHO. But some believe that Herm’s not at fault at all…why would they, he’s never accepted responsibility for any poor decisions made.
Do I think he (Herm) is ultimately responsible for the call - yes !!
Did he MAKE that call – no !! If you want Herm to run-off Chan Gailey because Gailey made a bad play call – fine !! Personally, I don’t agree with the 3rd down call either – but the game wasn’t won or lost on that play. If we don’t allow the 35 yd. punt return – do the Jets even score ?? If so – likely not more than 3 points – and we’re going to overtime.
Hali’s move to the left side- effective ?? Somewhat perhaps. Herm’s call ?? – maybe not. Is he responsilbe for the call – yes !!
Here’s the deal as I see it. Herm’s not going ANYWHERE this year (Fact – if you believe our owner). So unless Carl or Clark offer Herm a contract extension – and nothing has been spoken to suggest that will happen. I’m going to ride this train to the end of the line/season – and see what shakes out then. If Herm’s got to leave – let it be at season’s end – firing him now is a counter-productive move.
by HankerChief on Oct 27, 2008 12:04 PM CDT up reply actions
Who was talking about Herm leaving mid season?
You made a comment:
I’m tired of seeing Herm being panned for every single move that this club makes.
And my rebuttal was that he is ultimately responsible for the play calling and preparation on and off the field. The fact that he never accepts responsibility is yet another topic of discussion. If you don’t like that he’s being “panned” for every single decision, then who is?
He might not have made the call, but he could have said “No” to Gailey…unless you believe he doesn’t have the authority or responsibility.
And nowhere did I mention cutting him mid season…you did in. But now that you brought that up I couldn’t care either way.
Hali’s move -might not have been his call…don’t really care if it was or not. But I bet he said “Yes” to it when it was presented during the coaches meeting. Yes, they do have those…at least they did unless Herm’s just showing up on the sidelines to get good seats and is listening to 101 The Fox on his headset.
So he sat LJ. Big Friggin deal…wanna know why? Because LJ mouthed off to him and Herm didn’t like it. It wasn’t because of LJ’s play or anything else. LJ spoke his mind and Herm did what was in his power. A mini vacation since LJ was paid anyways. LJ thought he could be a thug and get in the coaches face..well guess what happened. If the organization really wanted to slap LJ they could have docked his pay by suspending him as an organization…but then the league would get involved because they would need to gather and justify the facts. Chiefs don’t want that dirty laundry out so they kept paying him.
So give Herm all the support you want…the org. didn’t back him up otherwise they would have fined LJ for insubordination.
Oh yeah…I was wrong…he did take responsbility for being the one to sit LJ. That’s one thing he took responsibility for this year.
Just keep matriculating the ball donw the field boys.
Whoa....
I wasn’t suggesting that YOU personally were asking for Herm to be fired – now:) My bad if that’s how it read.
I was trying to imply that Herm wasn’t the one who made the 3rd down call and that it’s not the first time he’s gotten hammered. Could he have changed the call on the fly after it was called in ?? I really don’t know enough to fairly comment about that……(but you don’t call a time-out to discuss it either)….. I think when you hire an Offensive Coordinator, you have to give him enough rope……so to speak. However, I’m sure they discussed strategy in the coaches meetings (“they do have those” ?? c’mon was that necessary:) player / postions included, but I’m not sure how that relates to one “in-game” play call.
I hadn’t heard/read anything about “LJ mouthing off” but I’ll take your word on that – you do seem to have some connection w/ the team. Dissapointing news that is….oh well, perhaps Savage will get a few touches this week while J.C. heals.
LJ Mouthing Off
It came out last week…LJ refused to come out of the game when told to by the coaching staff and apparently showed up the coach and started causing problems in the locker room. So (whether you like Herm or not) a suspension was probably merited because you can’t have players openly undermining the coach…and I agree with Truth that the organization didn’t back Edwards up.
That said, Truth is also correct in that Edwards rarely takes responsibility for the product on the field. Bad playcalling…the players need to do better. Bad schemes…the players need to do better. Team shows up looking completely unprepared for that week’s opponent…the players need to do better. QB gets beat down because McIntosh keeps getting starts…the players need to do better. You can get by with using that when it’s one or two players struggling, but when it’s most of the team having issues and a lot of the problems stem from the coaching staff’s decisions, then the players aren’t who the fingers should be pointed at. And when the players get mad at the coach because they get sick of being blamed, Herm punishes the players even if it hurts the team on the field. Definitely a lack of accountability among the coaching staff, and it starts with the HC (because he’s the one responsible for the coaching staff and for the choices they make).
Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.
you're right
I had read about the not comming off the field incident. And confirmed or not, I tend to believe it (but that’s not the point). Look all I’m getting at is that Herm not uncommonly takes it on the chin for things that aren’t under his direct control – like that 4th Qtr. 3rd down play call. Gailey made it – Herm is responsible for Gailey – I get that. I don’t think the HC can continually second guess the offensive coordinator – if you do or have to – then it’s time for a new one. Herm gave Solari enough rope to hang himself – he did – he’s gone.
I was being sarcastic...but not in reference to you
I was implying what they are actually discussing during those meetings (if they have those :-)
During the off week Herm basically stated he hadn’t started looking at game tape of the Titans.
This was a surprise to me. You spend the entire first week NOT looking at tape of your next opponent? So I should have clarified my comment. Seems that they were evaluating their own game play from the start of the season and were going to evaluate tape the following week. Seriously? I just don’t get the logic of letting an entire week go without discussing/evaluating your opponent (especially one that was undefeated).
My bad if that wasn’t clear.
Just keep matriculating the ball down the field boys.
I wasn't impressed when I heard that at the time either
But like I said – I’m not a huge Herm guy, to be honest, I don’t really like our coach – but dissecting the loss down to one play call and blaming Herm for THAT call – I hought was a little over the top.
Oh yeah...
…one more thing. If anyone thinks that the team is somehow supportive of LJ, think again. He does have a few “friends” if you can call it that, but the tip of the iceberg was during a recent plane trip to the game.
Seems that the entire team was on the plane getting ready to take off and guess who wasn’t on it? Yep LJ. So they were trying to decied whether to push back from the gate and there was squabbling going back and forth. Basically the Vets were saying “leave him” and others (coaches) were saying “wait”. LJ finally shows up, struts in like he owns the airline and they take off for the game.
What a “teammate”.
Just keep matriculating the ball down the field boys.
That's why he's gotta go
He’s a player – I just want it to be somewhere else.
I like the balls it took to sit LJ even though he hasn’t been suspended by the league.
He had to do something. He has lost control of this team. The product on the field and how it plays is a direct result of the environment that the staff builds. Why do you see veterans stepping up and helping the young guys(minus LJ). Because this is not how it was suppose to be. We weren’t going to be good let’s get that out of the way, but we weren’t suppose to be the laughing stock of the league.
It is not about a single play call. It is about the losing environment that is at One Arrowhead Drive and the everything is going to be all right B.S. attitude. In the words of Vermeil “it’s time to take the diapers off young man.”
Exactly...Herm lost control.
The funny thing is that Carl and Herm are not on speaking terms. It’s all for one right now…themselves.
Noone…I mean noone thought that during the “rebuilding” we would be the laughing stock. Everyone was under the impression that it was going to be rough, but we were led to believe that there would be consistent improvement. That’s why people are upset. There has not been any consistency in improving from week to week and that my friends is the fault of player personnel and coaching.
It’s been 8 weeks including the bye week and they have not improved from week 1 to now consistently. Just flashes.
Just keep matriculating the ball donw the field boys.
I don't get the whole Culpepper thing
There is no reason for them to sign him. You might as well let Thigpen play out the rest of the season. Culpepper won’t be here next year so why waste time. This is another example of not handling player personnel. The season is half over and the QB position has been a circus. Let Thigpen play he has been on the team and at least somewhat knows the plays. Culpepper would set the offense back even farther. They want to go young, yet they want an old injury prone QB???
True since he's a band aid anyway...and on top of that...
…IF Thigpen has a crappy game and we’re down by a lot, put Martin in to evaluate. He’s on the sidelines, so let’s see what he’s got. Just curious what he has during the crunch.
Just keep matriculating the ball down the field boys.
So if you're Clark Hunt
and you (hypothetically) HAVE to release someone now – who goes ??
If I Were Clark
Carl Peterson would probably get the axe mid-season and I start looking for a replacement. Herm sticks through the end of the year because firing the coach at this point will probably not change much (although if the team has another month of crappy games then he might as well get the axe), but whoever I hire as the new GM would be told that Herm’s fate is entirely in his hands and he’s under no obligation to retain him.
Peterson is the common thread in our problems for the last decade…he’s the one who needs to go first.
Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.
Agreed
I’d punt Peterson too. And I think it goes w/o saying that the new guy HAS to pick his HC – If that’s not Herm, so be it. However, I think you make the HC call in the offseason (early).
Carl...no doubt
…won’t affect the outcome of this season whatsoever and would get some fans in the seats. I don’t think that any incoming GM would even take the job if they didn’t have say-so in the coaching staff so that goes without saying. Besdies, we don’t want what happened in SD with Schottenheimer.
Just keep matriculating the ball down the field boys.
Carl
King Carl has to go, and we should say the coaching positions will be up to the evaluation of the GM with the understanding that he WILL fire Herm after the season.
by ryan_andersen98 on Oct 27, 2008 3:39 PM CDT up reply actions
and you should
theres nothing to be ashamed about your commitment of support.
"But what do I know, I’m like an empty room with a large ECHO"
Well thank you Lanier
I couldn’t make out what you said due to the ECHO!
[[wink/thumbs up/point/nod/breakdance]]
a clear Carl echo at that
in a twisted kinda way, it almost implies support for Herm:) – at least compared to CP.
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