Larry Johnson's Rap
by Chris Thorman on Oct 21, 2008 10:00 AM CDT
in 2008 Kansas City Chiefs Campaign
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Larry Johnson hasn't kept his nose clean since he's been in the NFL but he's no Pacman Jones either. Not even close.
ESPN was mentioning Larry Johnson's other indiscretions off the field and I figured it was a good time to jump in with my in-depth feelings on this.
He was charged in 2003 with felony aggravated assault and misdemeanor domestic battery for waving a gun during an argument with a former girlfriend at his home. The charges were dropped when Johnson agreed to participate in a domestic violence diversion program.
Johnson also had charges against him dropped in 2005 after a woman who accused him of pushing her to the ground at a Kansas City bar failed to appear in three court hearings.
Add in the recently reported February '08 incident when Johnson pushed the side of a woman's face and the events of the last few days, that's four incidents involving threatened or real physical confrontations with women.
A pattern of violence?
I'm not sure about that.
Let's throw out the second accusation. If the woman can't even show up at the court hearing, I bet the chances of that incident being even remotely close to being true are about 5%. And she missed three straight hearings to add even more ridiculousness to the whole situation.
So, to be clear, we have two incidents of Larry Johnson being actually charged with crimes and, so far, no probation/jail time ramifications. Now we have a more serious, if true, accusation from the bye week.
Two incidents indicates to me a temper problem but not necessarily a violence problem, especially considering the relative "lightness" of the actual violence involved. It has been my anecdotal experience, through real life and otherwise, that assault charges like this can occur without a serious, real life incident. In other words, a very light situation can occur but if a person involved so chooses they can elevate the incident's legal status extremely quickly.
This is not to admonish anyone deserving of blame in such a situation but I'm sure many of these incidents involving police charges could have really been solved much more easily by non-litigious means. And it's the actual charges or reports in these situations that make the news story. Without those charges filed, it's just some "victim" running their mouth. A person looking to intentionally harm an athlete needs that slip of paper the media can point to say, "A report has been filed on XYZ player."
Again, this is just my opinion and I'm trying to tow a tight line. I understand that violence especially against women can elicit a lot of strong feelings so I want to distance myself from any skewing of my words that would make it seem like I was forgiving even the smallest incidents involving violence against women.
I'm not saying that Larry Johnson's incidents are "light cases"- I wasn't present at these incidents and I haven't read anything from anyone who was - but it's a fair possibility. A famous athlete like Johnson who leads such a public "club" life, is assuredly one of the most "typical" targets for hecklers and leeches who want to basically extort money from a multi-millionaire celebrities. With even one mention of slapping a woman, any athlete is going to be 1000% more of a target in the future. It's the other side of this celebrity life that Larry doesn't seem to deal with so well.
America is a very litigious society and that attitude undoubtedly is present in many celebrity hecklers (I don't really have a better word for that right now) who see aggravation as an easy way to a pay day.
Listen. Larry Johnson isn't a saint but he also hasn't done enough harm enough in my eyes to justify the scorn he's received in the past. Now, if this most recent incident is true, Larry Johnson is an embarrassment to mankind and it further validates the suspicions of the earlier accusations. If this latest incident is true, Larry Johnson is not fit to wear a Kansas City Chiefs uniform.
But, until these latest accusations are proven, Larry Johnson has been mistake prone in his social life but he deserves the chance to ride these latest accusations out without fans calling for his ousting. You can make the argument for Larry Johnson being cut/traded/whatever without mentioning his off-the-field incidents. He's made some mistakes but I don't think, not yet anyway, that he has serious problems keeping his hands off of women. One accusation turned out to be a joke and it's within the realm of acceptability that this one will turn out to have portions of it that are either blatantly false or extremely exaggerated.
Right now, it doesn't look good to me that this latest incident will quickly fade away. I mean, I wish the guy a fair trial if it comes to that but it's tough to believe that LJ doesn't have some proclivity to get too angry in certain situations. There's a lot of circumstantial evidence there.
Here's my unsolicited advice to Larry Johnson ala his football career, assuming the most recent incident isn't true - stay out of situations that make you an easy target to be taken advantage of. If LJ really wants out of Kansas City, he needs to understand his trade value has diminished significantly in the last two months because of his off-the-field accusations. He's burning more than one team bridge with his problems. The diva days are close to being over in the NFL (that's my theory anyway) and fewer and fewer teams will have the patience to put up with problem players.
Larry's diva act is beyond played out and I'm close to saying sell him at any cost. It's becoming more and more clear that Johnson is far from any type of team player.
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Herm Edwards
Apparently told the press yesterday that Larry Johnson may not play next week either. Something’s definitely going on.
Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.
Would've Done A FanPost
But there wasn’t much to write about from the article.
Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.
There's always the Cowboys.
They haven’t cared about what kind of repugnant personal life you’re leading — whether you snort cocaine or hit women or if your posse shoots people while you’re making it rain — so long as you can make plays on the field.
Maybe L.J. can make it there.
They Don't Need A Running Back
They’re set with Barber and Jones…both of whom appear to be less of a whiny headache than Johnson.
Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.
Disagree Whole Heartedly
“If the woman can’t even show up at the court hearing, I bet the chances of that incident being even remotely close to being true are about 5%. And she missed three straight hearings to add even more ridiculousness to the whole situation”
How many times has a victim of domestic abuse changed their mind or dropped charges? You don’t just start spitting drinks in someones face at age 28. It’s a pattern of disrespect towards women that starts at an earlier age and only grows. Look up the statistics on violence towards women.
I understand that someones ‘celebrity’ can get them into trouble but you have to realize that this ‘celebrity’ can get them out of trouble as well. If anyone thinks these 4 incidents of violence towards women are the only skeletons in that POS’s closet they are sadly mistaken.
by ashleylat on Oct 21, 2008 11:08 AM CDT reply actions 1 recs
Got To Agree With Ashley
Just because the charges got dropped does not mean that the charges were bogus. LJ’s got a pattern of this sort of behavior, and the fact that he keeps finding himself in this situation means that either he’s too stupid to realize that he’s putting himself in harm’s way (and Johnson has never given the impression that he’s stupid) or this is just who he is…a guy who continually finds himself in physical altercations with women and who doesn’t seem interested in changing his behavior.
Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.
I'm with Ashley, too.
Personally, given the fact that he’s apparently threatened someone in this latest incident, I’m not going to say that it’s out of the realm of possibility that he (or one of his ’bodyguards’) threatened the woman who didn’t show up at the court hearing either.
What we’re looking at is a tremendously disturbing pattern of behavior that starting to develop.
He may’ve finally taken Vermeil’s advice and taken the diaper off on the field, but it’s becoming exceedingly clear that he hasn’t bothered with growing up off the field. Even my five-year-old understands that you don’t hit girls. At all. Ever.
If L.J.’s not willing or not capable of changing his behavior, he needs to be let go. It looks like Herm is willing to address it, based on his benching of L.J. (which, unlike suspension, forces him to practice and do all of the work but denies him being able to play).
Now Carl needs to decide whether or not to cut L.J. before the NFL suspends him. We’ve got the cap room to take the hit this year. And, the more I hear about L.J.’s antics, the more I think dropping him might be the right thing to do.
Disagree with Ashley
Theres a difference between disrespect for women and violence toward women. Spitting or pouring a drink on a woman, while disrespectful, cannot be mentioned in the same sentence as violence. I dont condone what hes doing, but lets get a drip people.
by moonshot314 on Oct 21, 2008 12:32 PM CDT up reply actions
Agreed
There is a difference between disrespect and violence. But I draw the line at physically putting your hands on another person, spitting on another person, threatening to kill another person, etc. versus calling another person a bitch.
Once hands get laid on other people, it’s no longer just an issue of disrespect.
Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.
Which is disrespect and which is violence?
Brandishing a gun?
Pushing to the ground?
Pushing in the face?
Spitting in the face?
The line is very close
particularly when you add to the fact that he allegedly was threatening physical violence.
And he’s got a history of violence. It’s part of an emerging pattern.
Ridiculous Upside: All the "Almost NBA" info you can handle!
by Ridiculous Matt on Oct 21, 2008 12:40 PM CDT up reply actions
LJ to the Trash
Dick Vermiel was right. LJ needs to grow up. As much as I hate to say it, the Chiefs need to cut ties with him. Bench him and recoup some of the monies he’s being paid. I’m sure there is something in the contract to protect the team.
It’s not all about his off field incidents. His poor deamor on the field has to be ten times worse in the locker room. He is poison.
I'm sorry
as someone who’s wife has worked extensively with rape and spousal abuse education, I’m not going to sugarcoat this even if he was a good football player (which, if you’re talking about consistent production behind anything but an All-World O-line, he’s not).
bq.He’s made some mistakes but I don’t think, not yet anyway, that he has serious problems keeping his hands off of women.
Oh, so, as long as it’s just a slight problem with keeping his hands off women it’s okay? He’s got a problem keeping his hands off women. You can throw out however many you like. He’s got a history and it’s apparent.
This guy is a piece of trash and we should do better. Let me put it this way. I have people that work for me. If I found out they had this kind of history? They would not be working for me because they would not be fit to represent my company.
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by Ridiculous Matt on Oct 21, 2008 11:24 AM CDT reply actions 1 recs
It's shameful
that we have to be making excuses like “Oh, they’re probably just after his money” just because we’re so financially committed to him. We all know that if this was a third string corner or Darnell Savage, we’d kick him to the curb.
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by Ridiculous Matt on Oct 21, 2008 11:26 AM CDT up reply actions
It's Shameful But It's True
It’s tough to see both sides of the street on issues like this. If it was an isolated incident I could see people making stupid, drunken mistakes however this is not an isolated incident.
How many times have we heard, “Nothing good happens after midnight”. I remember the first time I heard it…Harvey Williams got mugged in the Fall of 1994 in Downtown KC. I believe his Sugar Bowl ring got stolen in the mugging (all from memory so I could be off)…problem was it was well after midnight. I remember my High School Coach Morris say it…“what was he doing out that late”.
I'm an insomniac
which means I’m up past midnight pretty much all the time.
Funny how I don’t end up hitting any woman, ever.
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by Ridiculous Matt on Oct 21, 2008 11:40 AM CDT up reply actions
I Don't Think That's What Ashley Was Saying
But alcohol is definitely a contributing factor in this. Wouldn’t surprise me if LJ had an undiagnosed alcohol problem as well. He certainly wouldn’t be an anomaly in the NFL.
Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.
I think he's got an "asshole" problem.
Ridiculous Upside: All the "Almost NBA" info you can handle!
by Ridiculous Matt on Oct 21, 2008 11:45 AM CDT up reply actions
No, I hear what you're saying.
And I agree with you for the most part. But I don’t like pinning this on other things. I don’t want to blame him being out after midnight like he’s a werewolf or something. You should be able to conduct yourself in a manner the same if it’s noon or 5PM or 10PM or 2AM. And that conduct should not include violence towards women.
I’m not willing to give him the benefit of the doubt based on alcohol because the first charge was a little bit different and we’re not sure how drunk he was anyway. I’m very supportive if a player has a substance abuse problem. I’m not supportive if that player can’t recognize his own inability to control his actions under the influence.
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by Ridiculous Matt on Oct 21, 2008 11:50 AM CDT up reply actions
Agreed
If Johnson’s got an alcohol problem, that’s understandable and he needs help. Happens to a lot of decent people. But if it’s used to rationalize bad behavior, that’s not acceptable.
Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.
Furthermore
shouldn’t “I shoved a girl when I was drunk” be a pretty good indicator that you should look for help?
Here’s an honest question. Where’s Jay-Z in all this? Jay-Z used to sell crack, but he’s become a responsible business man that’s actually done a lot to try and help people and guide them into conducting business the right way. I mean, if this guy’s not taking advice from HOVA, who is he taking advice from?It’s certainly not Herm.
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by Ridiculous Matt on Oct 21, 2008 12:02 PM CDT up reply actions
Agreed
When I was in the Army I was in positions where I had to help deal with abusive domestic situations in the military population, and this is a very familiar pattern. In fact a good friend of mine, who I found out was beating his girlfriend, demonstrated very similar attitudes towards women (although nothing as overt as what Johnson’s been accused of doing…but eventually you start to see the pattern).
Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.
Suspension...
I haven’t checked the with anyone familiar with the rules or anything but is there any chance that Herm and Co. are suspending him so if the league takes action it can be appealed with the fact he has already been punished somewhat….Maybe Herm realizes that he will need more later…like…when we actually have a shot…
I dont know…
I Don't Think That's The Case
The Chiefs would be in line for problems with the NFLPA if they preemptively suspended Johnson for something he hasn’t been convicted for. I think the suspensions are more about his problems with the team.
But I’m curious, if the assault allegations turn out to be true, if the Chiefs will try to use it to negate Johnson’s contract.
Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.
He Still got Paid Last Week
So he wasn’t suspended. It’ll be different when it comes down from the NFL.
He's not suspended.
He’s ‘deactivated’ which, essentially, means he has to do all of the same work he’d have to do if he were playing that week, without actually getting to get on the field.
Suspension takes away his paycheck, but it also gives him a whole lot of free time. And, at this point, we’ve got no reason to expect that he’d choose to use all of that free time wisely.
The Chiefs could be covering their butt by "suspending" him last week
Considering teams are now eligible for fines for player violations of the Personal Conduct policy.
by Joel Thorman on Oct 21, 2008 12:43 PM CDT up reply actions
You got a know when to hold em, know when to fold em
I’m on the sidelines for this debate
"But what do I know, I’m like an empty room with a large ECHO"
but I won't throw a beer at anyone who scores
"But what do I know, I’m like an empty room with a large ECHO"
being a moron
that throws a beer= acting like an idiot when you should know better
beating up women= worthless waste of space.
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by Ridiculous Matt on Oct 21, 2008 11:51 AM CDT up reply actions
Still really indecisive about all of this
I don’t want to sound like an LJ defender at all, but I think some of this is all happening to quick, and I don’t think you can immediately demand for the Chiefs to cut him.
While it is appaling that this is the fourth reported incident, I think we need to take a wait and see approach. I could be wrong, but with the first 2 incidents LJ never faced any punishment from the league or Chiefs organization (correct me if I’m wrong, I just don’t remember), and the latest 2 have come out in the past week so there hasn’t been enough time to gather all the facts. So before I make any judgments or join the “cut him” bandwagon, I think I’ll wait until all the facts have come out and see what (if any) charges/punishment are going to be brought against him by the legal system/league.
by Chiefs n Chopper on Oct 21, 2008 11:54 AM CDT reply actions
So there have been four instances
compounded by a notoriously bad attitude, and all four instances, it’s confirmed that he was there, and they’re all just make-believe by Godl Diggers? He’s just really misunderstood?
Would you feel this same way if it was Darnell Savage?
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by Ridiculous Matt on Oct 21, 2008 12:00 PM CDT up reply actions
You Mean Dantrell Savage? :)
LJ’s shown a definite pattern of poor judgment, although honestly I’m fine if the Chiefs get rid of him just because I think he’s a team cancer and needs to be excised.
Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.
It's not like this is a standup guy who's earned some automatic support.
If Tony did something like this, I’d be livid, but it would be completely out of character.
It could not be more IN CHARACTER for LJ, from all perceived conceptions.
And yes, Dantrell Savage. Smartass. :)
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by Ridiculous Matt on Oct 21, 2008 12:06 PM CDT up reply actions
Whoa, whoa, whoa
There’s an important miscue lost in this whole debate, and I’m glad Chris has the forthrightness to write this post asking not for excuses but for patients.
I have no interest in trying to wage a realistic moral debate on a Chiefs’ blog, to do so really undermines our true morals. LJ may be a terrible person, he may be a horribly misguided extended adolescent (the Jim Brown comparisons are haunting), or an individual unfairly punished for maintaining his independence while being famous.
The point is we won’t know the truth for years likely, the media, our society and professional celebrity is created that way.
Look at this blog, when this was first announce Chris threw a “kill” in the headline, people went crazy at least to some degree projecting their despair over the CHIEFS GAME and PLAY onto a serious situation. Suddenly, we were virulent opponents of misogyny even though every other ad her has a scantily clad low end female model hawking some piece of internet garbage, and I can tell you from personal disappointment how much better a post does with some T&A.
Now consider this: LJ and Kerry Collins both went to Penn State, a fine institution on all accounts, yet they both have been viewed as sub-society individuals. Surely, there’s the claim that Collins has beat his demons, but as a 1st round top 5 pick he’s proven himself to be a bigoted, alcoholic over the years and said and done some despicable acts. Yet, for all accounts is open admired these days and his shameful past is covered up. Lj now seems to be entering an extremely dark period, but really, what is going to happen to him? LJ’s biggest problem is his inferiority complex over the thug he never was.
This is my humble suggestion, keep your morals too yourself and if you want to do something, mock them, mock them mercilessly. Our society is ridiculous in that it rewards individuals for enduring 17 plus car-crash experiences a year with obscene amounts of wealth a generally a free pass from society’s laws excluding rape and murder.
LJ I’m sure craves a bad boy criminal image more than anyone he tries to associate with, he was raised by both parents and his father was a high school principal and then his college coach, society judging him as a misogynist thug plays right to this insecurity.
Fines, charges, He’s Larry Johnson, he can handle that at least he thinks.
No what he doesn’t want to be? The reverse metaphor for Mike Tyson’s girly voice. It sounds crazy, but I’d bet a DEADSPIN article about LJ being suburban tool trying to act hard would do more to fix his attitude than anything celebrity justice in the U.S. has to dole out.
That said, your entitled to your opinions and outrage, but if your going to think about this that seriously maybe we should think why all that goes into a Chiefs blog and not the real world more.
by Official Arrowhead Pride Parade on Oct 21, 2008 2:13 PM CDT reply actions
In fairness to Parade
It’s not like there’s a lot more that bloggers can do, other than refusing to give the team our money (which I’m already doing in response to their stubborn refusal to depose King Carl).
My hope is that the NFL opens a door for the Chiefs so they can find a way to weasel out of LJ’s contract and maybe drop the cap hit a bit.
Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.
contracts
I don’t understand how these contacts can be drawn up without a morality clause or something. there needs to be an out for certain acts.
There Is In Many Of Them
Violations of the league personal conduct policy are written in. But sometimes it can be tough to recoup any money. I don’t think the Falcons were able to get back the signing bonus from Michael Vick, despite the fact that what he did landed him in prison.
Just depends on the contract, I suppose.
Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.
And
Not everybody merits those kind of precautions. Guess it’s just a question of whether the Chiefs thought Johnson did when they extended him. Probably not, considering how desperate Carl Peterson was to get him into camp at the time.
Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.
Standard Contract
You would think that there is a standard contract that has specific language in there but I think you are right about the Falcons. they didn’t recoup the signing bonus money.
It Always Depends
On the individual, on the circumstances, on the infraction, on the arbitrater. At this point I’d just be happy if the Chiefs could find a way to get that cap hit for 2009 cut in half if we get rid of him. I think it would be worth a 7.5 million cap hit to dump Johnson on someone else. Even if he is back to where he was at in 2006 his career’s only got a couple more years at elite status as is and what he takes away from the team seems to outweigh what he brings to it.
Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.
The NFLPA wouldn't let that happen
They’re very protective of the players and KNOW that this stuff WILL happen.
by Joel Thorman on Oct 21, 2008 3:07 PM CDT up reply actions
Oh, And Ashley
Don’t think I haven’t noticed that you’ve got a game lead over me in the AP fantasy league. That anomaly will be corrected in the near future. :)
Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.
Regular Season doesn't matter...
I just want to make it to the tournament.
LJ's egocentric behavior is like a curse on the team.
This man has SELFISHNESS written all over him. When you start treating people as if they are only there for your own personal gratification, you have a tendency to mistreat them. A women is no longer a person in his mind, but a mere object to satisfy his insatiable desire for dominance. If he has not yet acted out violently in his behavior towards women, give it time it will develop if the pattern of conduct is not corrected.
Forget about the moralistic implications of this behavioral defect, but look at how it translate to his play on the field. LJ’s selfishness has been apparent since the days with Vermiel. He will not do the little things that will improve his overall game as a team player, like pass block. Nor do you see him give salute to the linemen who opened the holes for him to run through. I don’t ever remember seeing him ever congratulate the offensive line for breaking a long run or even after scoring a rushing TD. The praise was always highlighted on his own accomplishments. The man has serious issues in his character when things weren’t going his way. A lot of people (myself included) overlooked his tell tale signs when he ran for those back to back 1700 yards seasons, but I never could forget the time when the Chiefs were at the 5 yard line in Dallas and LJ whiffed on his block. Allowing Fujita to sack Green resulting in a fumble which ultimately turn the momentum against us. And how does our society today correct this pattern of egocentricity? We reward it, the Chiefs in particular gives him a huge contract with guaranteed money!
We should of traded him, and kept Jared Allen. Allen has taken steps to correct his addictions, Larry Johnson has not. I am more convinced than ever that after this failure to truly evaluate the character along with their productivity, that Carl has to be held accountable and be fired! If you allow Carl another two years to run the franchise he will do more irreparable damages to the future success of the club. If in fact that Clark is keeping Carl around to oversee the renovations of Arrowhead then pay him to oversee the construction(as CEO for the next two years), but remove GM & President titles effective immediately! Do not let him make anymore decisions regarding the personnel on the field, both coaches and players. Strip away all authority regarding those responsibilities, and let him retire after the renovations are complete.
Excellent Point
Forget about the moralistic implications of this behavioral defect, but look at how it translate to his play on the field.
That’s been a knock on him since he’s been in the league. It’s manifested in his deficient pass blocking, as you noted.
by Joel Thorman on Oct 21, 2008 5:15 PM CDT up reply actions
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