A Peek Into The Kansas City Chiefs Front Office
by Joel Thorman on Oct 14, 2008 7:43 AM CDT
in 2008 Kansas City Chiefs Campaign
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PrintBob Gretz offers up a piece this morning that delivers what I believe is a fairly accurate assessment of the Tony Gonzalez trade request (although Gretz's bold homerism for Carl Peterson is evident in at least one of the answers). He hits on several relevant points regarding the trade so I thought this would be a good starter for discussion this morning. A few highlights are below.
Why are we trading Tony?
The only reason the Chiefs are trying to trade Tony Gonzalez is because he asked them too. Not once, not twice, but several times. He does not want to go through the rebuilding project that the Chiefs are in right now. He wants out. They are just trying to make him happy.
On Carl Peterson giving into trade requests:
Everybody thinks Carl Peterson is such a hard-ass, but here’s another case where he’s a softie for a guy he likes, and he likes Tony G. There are some teams and GMs that would have told Gonzo to take his request and said “don’t let the door hit you in the butt on the way out.”
On getting the best deal for Gonzalez:
That sets a very bad precedent for future players, who can say ‘Hey you let Tony G out of here for a sixth rounder’ Plus, if the Chiefs don’t get a decent draft choice in return, they’ll get smacked twice by the public: once for trading Gonzalez and then for not getting enough for him.
On Tony's impact with the Chiefs:
Listen, we all love Tony, but he’s not a game changer. In 179 career games, he has 861 catches. That’s an average of 4.8 catches per game. He’s got 75 touchdown catches and that’s an average of a score every 11.5 catches.
That math means he catches a TD pass on average every third game. That’s not a game changer.
What kind of compensation should we look for?
If I’m Carl Peterson and Herm Edwards, I get a second or third-round pick, or a fourth and another choice. Anything less and the deal does not get done.
On Gonzalez coming back if a trade doesn't get done:
Gonzalez is a pro and as long as he feels the Chiefs made a good faith effort to deal him, he should come back and be fine.
As much as we all don't want to admit it, this is probably the train of thought the front office took when determining what to do with Gonzalez.
If you're the GM, is this your line of thinking? Remember with these trades, it's important to take your heart out of the equation. Your job is to do what's best for the team even if that means placing a numeric value on someone whose been a staple of the organization and the city for the last decade.
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So Much Spin I'm Dizzy
I am always amazed by the spin they put on stuff like this. First he’s not a game changer but we need to get a 2, a 3 or multiple picks for him? Which is it is he a Hall of Famer or just an average tight end. It reminds me of them saying Jared Allen didn’t have any sacks in the 4th quarter…
Some GMs Do That
Run a top player down just before they send him out of town. I guess it’s meant to cushion the blow, but it always came off as cheap and tacky to me.
As for Gonzalez not being a game changer, that’s crap. He’s as much of a big-play threat as any TE has ever been. He’s an outstanding red zone target, he always finds space to get open under coverage. And this offense will really be bad if he’s not around. I doubt Bowe will ever see a game without double coverage from here on out if Tony’s gone.
That said, I still don’t think they’re trading him. I think that the Sunday celebration of his record was their unofficial announcement that he’s not going anywhere. And it’s a smart move football-wise.
Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.
Keeping him is the smartest moves
Especially with some of our draft history.
It's not crap.
“As for Gonzalez not being a game changer, that’s crap.”
It’s not crap. It’s how you undersell him to insure that no team gives you the offer you’re supposedly looking for so that you can keep him around while making it look like you made a legitimate effort to trade him.
I Understand The Strategy Behind It
I’m saying that the assertion itself is crap. And it’s short-sighted because those comments are often taken at face value as criticism and tend to cause more problems down the road than they’re worth.
Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.
Thought
Does anyone else think our organization is a joke? I understand that trading Tony Gonzalez is the right thing to do and I really have no problem granting Tony what he wants. I just can’t believe things have come to this. Football teams get good and bad so quickly nowadays that I don’t believe in the “locked contender” status unless your quarterback is Tom Brady or Peyton Manning. Look at the Dolphins, Falcons, and the Jets. They were TERRIBLE last year and they now all could make the playoffs. I feel like Oakland, Detroit, and Kansas City are now the laughing stock of the league and I can’t believe it’s gotten to that point for us. For the past 20 years or so Kansas City was never laughed at as an NFL team. Either Herm has to go, Carl has to go or both have to go. Things can be turned around but I think that Herm’s rebuilding plan is a ploy to stick around. I live in New York and EVERY Jets fan I’ve ever talked to told me from the start that Herm is an awful coach. I completely agree with them. Watching us play is literally a joke. It’s like 1 out of every 5 games our team will play hard. The Chiefs just aren’t good or motivated and I have to place that blame mostly on the GM and coach. I will remain a Chiefs fan but seriously it’s tough. I just hope we have a new GM and a new coach by next year or we will be the next Detroit.
Herm Edwards is a retard.
Does anyone else think our organization is a joke?
Nope.
“For the past 20 years or so Kansas City was never laughed at as an NFL team. Either Herm has to go, Carl has to go or both have to go. Things can be turned around but I think that Herm’s rebuilding plan is a ploy to stick around.”
You want to wind up like Detroit or St. Louis or Oakland or Cincinatti, then go ahead and fire Herm.
Herm came in to the team saying that the plan was to get younger and build for the future . That’s why they hired him. And then, with Vermeil’s leftovers, went 10-6 his first year. Then he went 9-7 and made the play-offs. It’s damn hard to convince anyone in the front office that you’ve got to tear things down to the ground and rebuild when you’re 10-6 or in the playoffs.
Then, last year, things fell apart and Carl and the Hunt family finally got on board.
The absolute WORST thing you could do is fire Herm or Carl midway through the rebuilding. Because then you get another guy with another idea of how the rebuild should be done. And, you get a different direction. And, then, when he doesn’t have any more success than Herm did in the first year(s) of his rebuild, you fire him.
And, you wind up starting a chain reaction that leads to a ball club truly becoming a laughing stock.
We’re not there yet. We follow your plan of firing people midway through and we will be. All of the other pundits (from ESPN to FoxSports to SI.com and beyond) are saying that the Chiefs are putting all of the building blocks together right now to be a contender for years to come.
"All Of The Other Pundits"?
Posted on October 11 by ESPN’s Bill Williamson who covers the AFC West in response to a reader letter:
Kathy Schall from Topeka ks: I think it is time for the Chiefs to get rid of Carl Peterson, Herm Edwards. Lets face it the Chiefs have been going down hill since Vermill left. You could even go back to Marty. I know high school teams that play better than the Chiefs. We have 4 quarter backs and if you put them all together you couldn’t get an 1/8 of a quarterback. That is a sad thing. Brode is the worse quarterback in the leaque. I don’t know where Edwards and Peterson thinking he is a good quarterback, he was just okay at the college level but he is not a pro level quarterback. Hunt needs to take control of his football team because us fans can only be loyal for so long.
BW: You are fired up, Kathy. You aren’t happy with your team at all. Then again, why should you be? Well, Kathy, if the Chiefs continue to struggle, you may get your wish. A complete overall could be on the way.
In fact, Williamson (who as far as I can tell is the only one at ESPN who actually watches Chiefs games) has noted before how the Chiefs don’t appear to be a very good team even by rebuilding standards. Bill Simmons at ESPN has ragged on Herm Edwards as a head coach for quite some time. Beyond that I rarely see discussion on the Chiefs from the pundits anywhere in the mainstream except at the Star or Chiefs fan blogs (and the mothership) because most media outlets aren’t interested in reporting on a 1-4 team that’s gotten blown out in three of their games. Most of the people who’ve commented on what a good idea it was for the Chiefs to rebuild and how they’re progressing aren’t actually watching the games to see how the team is doing…they’re saying “rebuilding is good” because they equate going younger with automatically being good, then they don’t do much followup research to see if they knew what they were talking about. They’re optimistic only because they don’t have to watch the games, nor do they track the development of players (how many pieces have you seen about Tamba Hali’s disappearance this year?).
As for Fox Sports, they hire Whitlock…and we all know what he thinks about the Chiefs’ rebuilding effort, and we know he’s actually watching the games.
Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.
There's Always Jeffri Chadiha, Of Course
He wrote a nice piece in September saying how Tony Gonzalez was on board with the rebuilding movement. Then he wrote another nice piece in October saying how the loss to the Raiders was “close” because we were only down by six points at halftime. So I know that he’s not watching the games or watching the team (especially since he’s yet to cite a stat).
Then again Chadiha was the guy last year who predicted the records for every team in the NFL and calculated that the league would have a better than .500 record against itself (which is, of course, impossible) so maybe he is watching the games and just doesn’t have any clue of what he’s watching. So far that’s the only pundit I can find on ESPN whose written anything positive about the Chiefs’ rebuilding effort since they got stomped by the Raiders.
Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.
I completely agree with you man.
I think we are on the same boat. I just can’t get over the fact that these overly optimistic fans see our franchise going somewhere right now. The Lions have been a young team the past few years and they show no improvement because their pieces don’t fit. That’s exactly our problem. We spend our 3rd round pick on a speed back and we are a run it up the gut team. We should have spent our 3rd rounder on a center or guard who can run block with the best of them because that’s really all our offense tries to do. I just don’t understand the direction of anyone in this organization. You have Dick Curl who is clearly the worst QB coach in the NFL pushing to develop crappy QBs. You have Carl trying to out strategize every other GM or something – I really have no idea what he’s doing. You have Herm in his own little positive world. I just don’t get it. Luckily I’m a KU basketball fan so I have one good team in my life, i just miss the fall Sundays in the past where the greatest homefield advantage could be utilized. We’ve never had the most talent in the NFL but at least we were in the playoff hunt until the last 1/4 of the season. Seriously, when the Chiefs are a decent team or better, there’s no better team in the NFL to root for. It’s just that type of team is dissapearing from all our minds so quickly and it has now gotten to the point where we are trading our pro bowl player because he WANTS to leave. It’s really sad.
Herm Edwards is a retard.
I Hear You
I agree about the pieces not fitting. And it all starts with the lines, both offensive and defensive…especially offensive.
Good o-lines were one of the hallmarks of all of those Chiefs teams of the early ‘90s and during Vermeil’s good offensive days, and now the Chiefs draft as if the line doesn’t matter at all. Granted they took Branden Albert in the first round this year, but that’s because it was a) a no-brainer pick, and b) the fans would have been in open revolt if they hadn’t (not that they’re ecstatic now judging from our polls). After that there were plenty of quality guards available (we passed on Jeremy Zuttah, who’s now starting for Tampa, for DaJuan Morgan) but who did we draft? Nobody until the 6th round when we grabbed Barry Richardson and he’s not even getting activated for most games. We’re making due with underachievers from last year’s line (McIntosh, Niswanger) and scrubs who couldn’t make the cut on other bad teams (Smith, Jones). So your point about Charles is valid…I like him as a back, but how useful is a good running back if your line can’t block or open holes? It’s not like Jamaal Charles is going to be able to take on defensive ends to save our QBs from getting killed (although he does try, to his credit, which LJ rarely does).
Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.
I agree
Jamaal Charles is a good player. My point is we have Kolby Smith and Larry Johnson. Did we really need a Felix Jones-esque RB threat at that point in the draft with this team? We drafted him like we are Dallas and have the roster to pick a player who doesn’t play on every down. It just doesn’t make sense to take him there. Your point on Zuttah is right on. Safety was not a position of need compared to OLine. Also, with Albert, he’s a great pick and I like how he plays and I’m really pumped about him, I just think that we need to spend another #1 or #2 on a tackle. This way, we can move Albert to Guard or RT and have 2 solid young guys on our line. At that point, you can start using later picks on the OLine and not early picks. Right now I’d keep Waters, Albert, Taylor, and Richardson since he’s young and that’s it. I would literally drop every other lineman and either draft or sign other lineman to fill the roster.
Herm Edwards is a retard.
I'll Disagree On Albert
I think he’s shown enough even in his limited playing time to warrant keeping him at left tackle. It’s not an easy position to fill, guards are relatively easy to find and he seems to be doing very well with it as a rookie so I think the hype about him is accurate. But I agree about the need to find another tackle with a high pick, if only because we absolutely have to replace McIntosh and Richardson and Taylor aren’t giving us much hope that they’re going to be more than backups. Waters looks like he’ll have another year left after this one and if we could find a tackle in the next draft and two guards (one to start, one to groom to replace Waters) our offensive line is in pretty decent shape for next year. Not great shape, because it takes awhile for a line to gel, but decent shape.
Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.
At Least We've Got The Hawks, Though :)
After the title I’m good for another five years or so :)
Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.
Yea exactly
I had never had a team win anything before. It was like Cloud 9. That’s why Im struggling with the Chiefs but it’s not the end of the world.
Also, why is JacinB allowed to post on here when he thinks Herm went 10-6. If you want to argue my points that’s fine but any Chiefs fans who watch the games should realize that Herm has been here 2.3 years and not 3.3 years.
Herm Edwards is a retard.
Everyone's Entitled To An Opinion
And JacinB has some good ones too. Everybody gets their facts wrong once in awhile so let’s not be too harsh…it was a pretty minor slip.
Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.
No Worries
Nobody’s right all the time, not even me. :) And you do make some good points.
Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.
I
agree about drafting Charles. I thought Kolby Smith looked Damn good last season, so why not have him back-up Lj. We drafted the best players available, but they don’t fit our system that well. The problem is ,you can’t win playoff games without an explosive offense, and Herm will never implement one.
by GHOST OF DT on Oct 14, 2008 10:25 AM CDT up reply actions
From the AP (via FoxSports):
Getting into the playoffs, where they were clobbered 23-8 in the first round by Indianapolis, caused influential people in the executive suites to make a bad misjudgment. Instead of using 2007 to begin replacing over-the-hill veterans and rebuilding with youth – as coach Herm Edwards wanted – Kansas City stood pat, thinking it was only a couple of key players away from a Super Bowl run.
From Adam Schein (FoxSports):
While Edwards has his faults, like his inability to properly manage a clock despite the presence of time-management guru Dick Curl, his players play incredibly hard for him. And his results as a coach speak for themselves.
Kansas City — the clear cut winner of the 2008 NFL draft — is in full-fledged rebuilding mode. Chiefs president Carl Peterson hand-picked Edwards. Even when the Chiefs struggle to win four games, Edwards gets a free pass as this club looks to 2009 and 2010. And Herm will be around for those years, too.
From Scout.com / Warpaint Illustrated:
Edwards needed to make trades that would bring in draft picks instead of send them away. He needed to use those draft picks on young talent, and not rely on overpaid, underproductive free agents. The entire organization needed a change in philosophy, and now, just one year into the youth movement, Edwards’ constituents are turning on him.
Right here in the inner nucleus of Chiefs Kingdom are two shining examples of what happens when a football program sticks with a head coach, letting them implement and carry out their plan. What would happen if Missouri athletic director Mike Alden had fired Gary Pinkel after he finished 5-6 in his fourth season? Chase Daniel would probably be leading the Heisman race as a Texas Longhorn, the Tigers would have never graced the cover of Sports Illustrated, and they’d probably be unranked.
What if Kansas athletic director Lew Perkins had fired Mark Mangino after he finished 4-7 in his third season? There’d be no Orange Bowl victory, there’d be no Coach of the Year honors, and the buffet industry in Lawrence wouldn’t be in a relapse.
Sure, college football and professional football aren’t the same, but the NFL coaching carousel seems to be moving at a faster and faster pace than it used to. Take Jeff Fisher for example – he didn’t put together a winning season for the Titans/Oilers during his first five seasons, but the organization stuck with him, and he led them to a Super Bowl appearance in his sixth year.
More recently, Fisher went 17-31 between 2004 and 2006, and angry Titans fans were calling for his head full of finely groomed hair. The organization stuck with him, and he went 10-6 last season and is off to a 5-0 start this year. Would Fisher have survived the early, trying years if they had started in 04’ instead of 1994? The moral of the story is perseverance pays off.
Don’t let your emotions overwhelm you. The losing hurts, but it hurts Edwards just as much, if not more than the average Chiefs fan. He has this ship in mid U-turn, and if he’s kicked out of the car now, there’s no telling what direction it’ll head.
Edwards has an eye for talent, and he’s bringing it into Kansas City by the truckload. He’s already got five rookies starting this season, and numerous others contributing. Give the man another draft and another season to prove his mettle.
Ok
So you copied and pasted some optimistic statements about the Chiefs from people who don’t really know the Chiefs.
The NFL isn’t college football. You don’t have players for 4 years and you don’t recruit.
Let me remind you that Jeff Fisher is a Super Bowl coach who’s team moved cities in the middle of his coaching career. Also, keep in mind that in his first 9 seasons of his career he won: 7, 8, 8, 8, 13, 13, 7, 11, 12 games. Those aren’t playoff teams every year but they are contending teams every year. Also include that during that span they went to the playoffs 4 times and SuperBowl once. Not a good example.
Edwards has 5 rookies starting because he wants to start young players and because there is no talent on this team. If we would have kept our best player (Jared Allen) – one of our first rounders wouldn’t be starting because he wouldn’t be here.
Herm Edwards is a retard.
Yeah, Warpaint Illustrated clearly knows nothing about the Chiefs.
And, as for the Fisher example, how of the Chiefs recent coaches have made the playoffs as often as Fisher has?
Not Vermiel. In his last 9 seasons in the NFL, Vermiel only made it to the playoffs twice. He only made it 6 times total in 15 years. So, he made it 40% of the time. Fisher looks like he’s going to be going 50% (if he continues this year’s pace).
Not Cunningham. He was lucky to have a .500 record.
Not Schottenheimer. He only made it to the playoffs 3 times in his last 9 years in the League. Sure, he made it there 7 out of 10 years with the Chiefs, but he hasn’t actually won a playoff game in 15 years and hasn’t ever lead a team past the AFC Championship.
But, wait. There’s also that other guy. What’s his name? Edwards? Norm Edwards? Oh, no … Herm Edwards. He’s been in the playoffs 4 times in 7 seasons, including two play-off wins.
I'm Not Sure What You're Comparing Here
Gunther was a coach for two years, so that’s hardly a good sample size. But his record as a head coach was still better than Herm’s. Schottenheimer’s not even comparable to Herm…Marty was a far superior coach. His win percentage was much better and he won division titles (which Herm has never done). Also, Herm’s never made it to an AFC Championship game. And Vermeil made it to the Super Bowl twice (and won once)…which Herm’s never come close to doing.
Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.
Please remember
That Herm followed Parcells in the Jets organization. So those first two playoff teams were just like the first playoff team he inherited here – a former coaches team. Look at the Cowboys and Wade Phillips last year – same thing happened.
If you omit the first two Jets seasons when he was using Parcells team and the first Chiefs team where it was all of Vermeil’s players, he will have made the playoffs once in 5 years with a 10-6 team in New York. I just don’t think he’s a good coach. I think he’s a nice guy and he’s gotten by with other coaches/gm’s creations.
As for me ripping on you for the 10-6 reference, I apologize. It was a little rough and I definately appreciate a good debate.
I just don’t see eye to eye with you on Herm at all. The guy can’t motivate his players, he can’t call a good game and his clock management is terrible.
Herm Edwards is a retard.
What Were The Dates On Those Postings?
Any of them written after the Raiders game?
Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.
HAHAHA
Herm never went 10-6. Vermeil went 10-6 in his final year and then Herm went 9-7 and because the AFC’s depth sucked that year he backdoored into the playoffs only to get EMBARRASSED by Tony Dungy and the Colts. He then came in the next year and led a team to a 4-12 record while pissing off all of his star players (Allen, LJ, Tony Gonzalez). He then realized those players were no longer on board with his plans and decided to “rebuild”. Rebuilding started this past offseason with the trading of Jared Allen.
Another thing, Cousin Carl traded our 4th round pick (Leon Washington – a GREAT return man) for Herm. Pathetic.
I do agree with you that we shouldn’t fire Herm or Carl midseason because it’s not fair to the players. But once the season ends they better be out that day. I’m not saying we act like Al Davis but we should clean house when the season is over. I just hope the trainwrekc of Peterson/Edwards doesn’t mess up our franchise anymore. Next thing you know, they are trading DBowe for a 2nd rounder.
Herm Edwards is a retard.
The 10-6 season was Vermeil's last
The 9-7 season was Herm’s first. Then the 4-12, and now this year.
ya
It’s awesome isn’t it. Looking at our team and seeing a downward spiral.
I still can’t get over the fact that our coach doesn’t watch the Super Bowl. Two best teams in football that year and you don’t watch or evaluate how they play? It’s mind-boggling.
Herm Edwards is a retard.
It's Understandable
Because he doesn’t have the Internet either.
Seriously, Herm’s a scout who’s playing coach. If you’re not obsessively trying to get information on the other teams in your league to improve your own or get a competitive edge, then you’re just not trying.
Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.
Exactly
and Hey, I would love Herm to be our defensive backs coach. I think the dbs can relate to him because he played the position so well and I think if he just focused on the dbs, they would be very good. I just don’t think he should be a head coach or even a defensive coordinator in the NFL.
Herm Edwards is a retard.
I Think He's Got A Knack For Identifying DB Talent Too
I won’t argue with that at all…Brandon Carr looks like a steal where we got him at the moment. Although it’s kind of tough to tell right now because the run defense is so bad that nobody really needs to test our DBs.
He made a comment during “Hard Knocks” back in ‘06 about how he’d never really wanted to be a head coach, about how he’d be more comfortable with a smaller group of guys, that makes me think that he’d be more comfortable in a position coach role.
Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.
Ya
I mean I don’t want the guys career to end, I just don’t think he should be our head coach. If he agreed to stay on as DBs coach, I’m all for it. I just cannot have him coaching our team or even our defense.
Herm Edwards is a retard.
Also,
Surtain and Law have played fairly well for us. Our DBs have been much improved since he came here. I can’t deny that. It’s just everywhere else is so bad. And it’s not like our secondary is top 10 in the NFL. We just aren’t as bad as other areas.
Herm Edwards is a retard.
That Never Happens
For obvious reasons. Very difficult for a new head coach to work in a supervisory position over the guy who replaced him. Gunther coming back to work for Vermeil was an unheard of instance.
Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.
Haha I know
I’m just showing the readers that it’s not like I think Herm is completely incompetent. He does know 1 position fairly well.
Herm Edwards is a retard.
I Think He's Probably A Good DB Coach
He held that job for some pretty good teams. But he’s never been a coordinator and I think that if he had been it would have exposed his problems with doing bigger picture stuff before somebody gave him a head coaching gig.
Not everybody’s suited to make the leap to running the entire show.
Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.
Does Herm have a beeper?
Or a car phone?
There’s no way he has a cell. I bet that Escalade he drives has an 8-track.
Herm Edwards is a retard.
Herm went 9-7
His first year here, get it right. Vermiel went 10-6 his last year here.
Did not notice
Someone else already put it out there. I replied from way up top. And right back at ya.
20 years
True, the Chiefs were not a laughing stock for 20 years, but that’s because we had pretty much the same players for all 20 years. Our drafting was, for the most part, terrible in the 90s. We hit some good players but whiffed big a number of times. That blame goes to Carl Peterson. What we see now is the end result of years of bad drafting. As for Herm, I agree his coaching is terrible. The players aren’t motivated, the play-calling is predictable, and he’s stubborn as hell about not benching a player he likes. But the “rebuilding” process is no joke. I think we are a few offensive linemen and a QB away from being a respected team again. Add to that a solid middle linebacker and a good #2 WR and we could challenge for championships. With the right moves this offseason, we could be a solid team again next year. Picking up a 2nd or 3rd round draft choice for Tony G puts us in good position to draft quality interior O linemen, we use our 1st rounder on a MLB, fish the later rounds for a receiver, and do our best to pick up a QB and a true WR in free agency.
by Chiefs4Life on Oct 14, 2008 10:38 AM CDT up reply actions
Do you at least agree
That Herm needs to go before all that happens though? I’m looking at the Raiders now and seeing that they have lost their motivation to play and it makes me think Lane Kiffin might be a good replacement for Herm. They played hard for him and he had a team that was built with players he didn’t really want. He also has a better record at Arrowhead than Herm does now anyways. I think you’re being a little optimistic but it is the NFL and teams turn it around fast so I hope you are right. I just hope you agree that the turnaround will be much easier without Herm and Cousin Carl at the healm.
Herm Edwards is a retard.
Carl? Yes. Herm? ??
I agree that Carl Peterson needs to go. He should share in the blame for decades of bad drafting, and silly contract disputes. Every team has disputes over salaries, it just seems CP “wins” the wrong battles. As for Herm…I don’t want to give him a free-ride. The coaching this year has been pathetic, the players aren’t motivated, and when things are falling apart in the game he his always smiling (drives me nuts). But I can’t help but wonder what it would be like with more talent on the team. Would the coaching not be sooooo bad?
Come to think of it, I hate the cover 2 scheme. I think it keeps Cunnigham’s defense from being explosive. And the offensive play calling is ludicrously simple even with our limitations in talent. Both can be traced to Herm’s influence. Hmmmm.
I’d say Peterson needs to go now, and Herm gets a one year reprieve. Another losing season, and Herm gets laughed out of the NFL all together.
by Chiefs4Life on Oct 14, 2008 11:15 AM CDT up reply actions
Talent
Here’s the thing about talent…CBaller had it absolutely right when he pointed this out earlier, you can have talent but it doesn’t mean anything if the pieces don’t fit together. We drafted some promising young wide receivers, but we’ve got a non-functioning offensive line so it doesn’t really matter because we can’t keep the QBs healthy or upright. We have a talented running back corps, but that doesn’t matter because the o-line can’t open holes consistently. We have a promising defensive backfield, but that doesn’t matter because our line can’t stuff the run or rush the passer and our linebackers are a mess, so talent in the backfield doesn’t really matter.
See what I mean? The pieces don’t fit.
Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.
Exactly
which further proves that Carl does deserve some of the blame. I just think that a good coach will at least get his players pumped up to win even if the pieces don’t fit – Kiffin did it, Herm doesn’t. I just think on December 29th, they both have to go.
Herm Edwards is a retard.
Kiffin
I’m on board with hiring Kiffin. I think the guy’s got a good mind for football, he gets the players’ respect and he can work even with players who don’t fit what he wants to do.
Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.
I don't enough
about Kiffin to say “yay” or “nay”, but can say that Herm’s schemes lack a certain amount of aggressiveness that is required in football. The cover 2 defense seems to be a “wait for them to come to us” kind of scheme and our offense is happy with getting field goals. While it is possible to win football games with this approach, it just doesn’t feel like true blood-and-guts football. So I’d say if there is a better coach available, we consider hiring him. But don’t know what better coach is available. Maybe Kiffin is that man, I just don’t know enough about the guy other than he coached a team every bit as pathetic as the current Chiefs.
by Chiefs4Life on Oct 14, 2008 12:01 PM CDT up reply actions
He Also Had No Control Over His Defense
Or personnel decisions. But he ran an extremely effective running game behind a very questionable offensive line. That tells me he can get results even from subpar players because he can tailor gameplans to their strengths.
Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.
Had a dream last night..
That we traded TG and LJ to Baltimore for Todd Heap and their 2nd and 3rd rounders. Was one of those dreams that was so vividly realistic that I woke up this morning scouring for news on the trade.
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