A Peek Into The Kansas City Chiefs Front Office

by primetime 07 on Oct 14, 2008 7:43 AM CDT in Campaign 2008

Bob Gretz offers up a piece this morning that delivers what I believe is a fairly accurate assessment of the Tony Gonzalez trade request (although Gretz's bold homerism for Carl Peterson is evident in at least one of the answers). He hits on several relevant points regarding the trade so I thought this would be a good starter for discussion this morning. A few highlights are below.

Why are we trading Tony?

The only reason the Chiefs are trying to trade Tony Gonzalez is because he asked them too. Not once, not twice, but several times. He does not want to go through the rebuilding project that the Chiefs are in right now. He wants out. They are just trying to make him happy.

On Carl Peterson giving into trade requests:

Everybody thinks Carl Peterson is such a hard-ass, but here’s another case where he’s a softie for a guy he likes, and he likes Tony G. There are some teams and GMs that would have told Gonzo to take his request and said “don’t let the door hit you in the butt on the way out.”

On getting the best deal for Gonzalez:

That sets a very bad precedent for future players, who can say ‘Hey you let Tony G out of here for a sixth rounder’ Plus, if the Chiefs don’t get a decent draft choice in return, they’ll get smacked twice by the public: once for trading Gonzalez and then for not getting enough for him.

On Tony's impact with the Chiefs:

Listen, we all love Tony, but he’s not a game changer. In 179 career games, he has 861 catches. That’s an average of 4.8 catches per game. He’s got 75 touchdown catches and that’s an average of a score every 11.5 catches.

That math means he catches a TD pass on average every third game. That’s not a game changer.

What kind of compensation should we look for?

If I’m Carl Peterson and Herm Edwards, I get a second or third-round pick, or a fourth and another choice. Anything less and the deal does not get done.

On Gonzalez coming back if a trade doesn't get done:

Gonzalez is a pro and as long as he feels the Chiefs made a good faith effort to deal him, he should come back and be fine.

As much as we all don't want to admit it, this is probably the train of thought the front office took when determining what to do with Gonzalez.

If you're the GM, is this your line of thinking? Remember with these trades, it's important to take your heart out of the equation. Your job is to do what's best for the team even if that means placing a numeric value on someone whose been a staple of the organization and the city for the last decade.

0 recs | Comment 113 comments |

Read Related

Story-email Email Printer Print

Comments

So Much Spin I'm Dizzy

I am always amazed by the spin they put on stuff like this. First he’s not a game changer but we need to get a 2, a 3 or multiple picks for him? Which is it is he a Hall of Famer or just an average tight end. It reminds me of them saying Jared Allen didn’t have any sacks in the 4th quarter…

by ashleylat on Oct 14, 2008 8:21 AM CDT 0 recs

Some GMs Do That

Run a top player down just before they send him out of town. I guess it’s meant to cushion the blow, but it always came off as cheap and tacky to me.

As for Gonzalez not being a game changer, that’s crap. He’s as much of a big-play threat as any TE has ever been. He’s an outstanding red zone target, he always finds space to get open under coverage. And this offense will really be bad if he’s not around. I doubt Bowe will ever see a game without double coverage from here on out if Tony’s gone.

That said, I still don’t think they’re trading him. I think that the Sunday celebration of his record was their unofficial announcement that he’s not going anywhere. And it’s a smart move football-wise.

Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.

by UCrawford on Oct 14, 2008 8:27 AM CDT up 0 recs

Keeping him is the smartest moves

Especially with some of our draft history.

by ashleylat on Oct 14, 2008 8:54 AM CDT up 0 recs

It's not crap.

“As for Gonzalez not being a game changer, that’s crap.”

It’s not crap. It’s how you undersell him to insure that no team gives you the offer you’re supposedly looking for so that you can keep him around while making it look like you made a legitimate effort to trade him.

by JacinB on Oct 14, 2008 9:04 AM CDT up 0 recs

I Understand The Strategy Behind It

I’m saying that the assertion itself is crap. And it’s short-sighted because those comments are often taken at face value as criticism and tend to cause more problems down the road than they’re worth.

Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.

by UCrawford on Oct 14, 2008 9:30 AM CDT up 0 recs

SI.com

had an interesting observation about a Giants WR resting last night.

Posted in Fanshots.

by NJChiefsFan on Oct 14, 2008 8:57 AM CDT 0 recs

Sinorice Moss

I heard about that. He’s been a big disappointment.

by primetime 07 on Oct 14, 2008 9:06 AM CDT up 0 recs

Don't want him.

I’d rather have Tony, frankly.

by JacinB on Oct 14, 2008 9:08 AM CDT up 0 recs

Thought

Does anyone else think our organization is a joke? I understand that trading Tony Gonzalez is the right thing to do and I really have no problem granting Tony what he wants. I just can’t believe things have come to this. Football teams get good and bad so quickly nowadays that I don’t believe in the “locked contender” status unless your quarterback is Tom Brady or Peyton Manning. Look at the Dolphins, Falcons, and the Jets. They were TERRIBLE last year and they now all could make the playoffs. I feel like Oakland, Detroit, and Kansas City are now the laughing stock of the league and I can’t believe it’s gotten to that point for us. For the past 20 years or so Kansas City was never laughed at as an NFL team. Either Herm has to go, Carl has to go or both have to go. Things can be turned around but I think that Herm’s rebuilding plan is a ploy to stick around. I live in New York and EVERY Jets fan I’ve ever talked to told me from the start that Herm is an awful coach. I completely agree with them. Watching us play is literally a joke. It’s like 1 out of every 5 games our team will play hard. The Chiefs just aren’t good or motivated and I have to place that blame mostly on the GM and coach. I will remain a Chiefs fan but seriously it’s tough. I just hope we have a new GM and a new coach by next year or we will be the next Detroit.

Herm Edwards is a retard.

by CBaller13 on Oct 14, 2008 9:24 AM CDT 0 recs

Does anyone else think our organization is a joke?

Nope.

“For the past 20 years or so Kansas City was never laughed at as an NFL team. Either Herm has to go, Carl has to go or both have to go. Things can be turned around but I think that Herm’s rebuilding plan is a ploy to stick around.”

You want to wind up like Detroit or St. Louis or Oakland or Cincinatti, then go ahead and fire Herm.

Herm came in to the team saying that the plan was to get younger and build for the future . That’s why they hired him. And then, with Vermeil’s leftovers, went 10-6 his first year. Then he went 9-7 and made the play-offs. It’s damn hard to convince anyone in the front office that you’ve got to tear things down to the ground and rebuild when you’re 10-6 or in the playoffs.

Then, last year, things fell apart and Carl and the Hunt family finally got on board.

The absolute WORST thing you could do is fire Herm or Carl midway through the rebuilding. Because then you get another guy with another idea of how the rebuild should be done. And, you get a different direction. And, then, when he doesn’t have any more success than Herm did in the first year(s) of his rebuild, you fire him.

And, you wind up starting a chain reaction that leads to a ball club truly becoming a laughing stock.

We’re not there yet. We follow your plan of firing people midway through and we will be. All of the other pundits (from ESPN to FoxSports to SI.com and beyond) are saying that the Chiefs are putting all of the building blocks together right now to be a contender for years to come.

by JacinB on Oct 14, 2008 9:38 AM CDT up 0 recs

"All Of The Other Pundits"?

Posted on October 11 by ESPN’s Bill Williamson who covers the AFC West in response to a reader letter:

Kathy Schall from Topeka ks: I think it is time for the Chiefs to get rid of Carl Peterson, Herm Edwards. Lets face it the Chiefs have been going down hill since Vermill left. You could even go back to Marty. I know high school teams that play better than the Chiefs. We have 4 quarter backs and if you put them all together you couldn’t get an 1/8 of a quarterback. That is a sad thing. Brode is the worse quarterback in the leaque. I don’t know where Edwards and Peterson thinking he is a good quarterback, he was just okay at the college level but he is not a pro level quarterback. Hunt needs to take control of his football team because us fans can only be loyal for so long.
BW: You are fired up, Kathy. You aren’t happy with your team at all. Then again, why should you be? Well, Kathy, if the Chiefs continue to struggle, you may get your wish. A complete overall could be on the way.

In fact, Williamson (who as far as I can tell is the only one at ESPN who actually watches Chiefs games) has noted before how the Chiefs don’t appear to be a very good team even by rebuilding standards. Bill Simmons at ESPN has ragged on Herm Edwards as a head coach for quite some time. Beyond that I rarely see discussion on the Chiefs from the pundits anywhere in the mainstream except at the Star or Chiefs fan blogs (and the mothership) because most media outlets aren’t interested in reporting on a 1-4 team that’s gotten blown out in three of their games. Most of the people who’ve commented on what a good idea it was for the Chiefs to rebuild and how they’re progressing aren’t actually watching the games to see how the team is doing…they’re saying “rebuilding is good” because they equate going younger with automatically being good, then they don’t do much followup research to see if they knew what they were talking about. They’re optimistic only because they don’t have to watch the games, nor do they track the development of players (how many pieces have you seen about Tamba Hali’s disappearance this year?).

As for Fox Sports, they hire Whitlock…and we all know what he thinks about the Chiefs’ rebuilding effort, and we know he’s actually watching the games.

Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.

by UCrawford on Oct 14, 2008 9:56 AM CDT up 0 recs

There's Always Jeffri Chadiha, Of Course

He wrote a nice piece in September saying how Tony Gonzalez was on board with the rebuilding movement. Then he wrote another nice piece in October saying how the loss to the Raiders was “close” because we were only down by six points at halftime. So I know that he’s not watching the games or watching the team (especially since he’s yet to cite a stat).

Then again Chadiha was the guy last year who predicted the records for every team in the NFL and calculated that the league would have a better than .500 record against itself (which is, of course, impossible) so maybe he is watching the games and just doesn’t have any clue of what he’s watching. So far that’s the only pundit I can find on ESPN whose written anything positive about the Chiefs’ rebuilding effort since they got stomped by the Raiders.

Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.

by UCrawford on Oct 14, 2008 10:07 AM CDT up 0 recs

I completely agree with you man.

I think we are on the same boat. I just can’t get over the fact that these overly optimistic fans see our franchise going somewhere right now. The Lions have been a young team the past few years and they show no improvement because their pieces don’t fit. That’s exactly our problem. We spend our 3rd round pick on a speed back and we are a run it up the gut team. We should have spent our 3rd rounder on a center or guard who can run block with the best of them because that’s really all our offense tries to do. I just don’t understand the direction of anyone in this organization. You have Dick Curl who is clearly the worst QB coach in the NFL pushing to develop crappy QBs. You have Carl trying to out strategize every other GM or something – I really have no idea what he’s doing. You have Herm in his own little positive world. I just don’t get it. Luckily I’m a KU basketball fan so I have one good team in my life, i just miss the fall Sundays in the past where the greatest homefield advantage could be utilized. We’ve never had the most talent in the NFL but at least we were in the playoff hunt until the last 1/4 of the season. Seriously, when the Chiefs are a decent team or better, there’s no better team in the NFL to root for. It’s just that type of team is dissapearing from all our minds so quickly and it has now gotten to the point where we are trading our pro bowl player because he WANTS to leave. It’s really sad.

Herm Edwards is a retard.

by CBaller13 on Oct 14, 2008 10:08 AM CDT up 0 recs

I Hear You

I agree about the pieces not fitting. And it all starts with the lines, both offensive and defensive…especially offensive.

Good o-lines were one of the hallmarks of all of those Chiefs teams of the early ‘90s and during Vermeil’s good offensive days, and now the Chiefs draft as if the line doesn’t matter at all. Granted they took Branden Albert in the first round this year, but that’s because it was a) a no-brainer pick, and b) the fans would have been in open revolt if they hadn’t (not that they’re ecstatic now judging from our polls). After that there were plenty of quality guards available (we passed on Jeremy Zuttah, who’s now starting for Tampa, for DaJuan Morgan) but who did we draft? Nobody until the 6th round when we grabbed Barry Richardson and he’s not even getting activated for most games. We’re making due with underachievers from last year’s line (McIntosh, Niswanger) and scrubs who couldn’t make the cut on other bad teams (Smith, Jones). So your point about Charles is valid…I like him as a back, but how useful is a good running back if your line can’t block or open holes? It’s not like Jamaal Charles is going to be able to take on defensive ends to save our QBs from getting killed (although he does try, to his credit, which LJ rarely does).

Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.

by UCrawford on Oct 14, 2008 10:20 AM CDT up 0 recs

I agree

Jamaal Charles is a good player. My point is we have Kolby Smith and Larry Johnson. Did we really need a Felix Jones-esque RB threat at that point in the draft with this team? We drafted him like we are Dallas and have the roster to pick a player who doesn’t play on every down. It just doesn’t make sense to take him there. Your point on Zuttah is right on. Safety was not a position of need compared to OLine. Also, with Albert, he’s a great pick and I like how he plays and I’m really pumped about him, I just think that we need to spend another #1 or #2 on a tackle. This way, we can move Albert to Guard or RT and have 2 solid young guys on our line. At that point, you can start using later picks on the OLine and not early picks. Right now I’d keep Waters, Albert, Taylor, and Richardson since he’s young and that’s it. I would literally drop every other lineman and either draft or sign other lineman to fill the roster.

Herm Edwards is a retard.

by CBaller13 on Oct 14, 2008 10:27 AM CDT up 0 recs

I'll Disagree On Albert

I think he’s shown enough even in his limited playing time to warrant keeping him at left tackle. It’s not an easy position to fill, guards are relatively easy to find and he seems to be doing very well with it as a rookie so I think the hype about him is accurate. But I agree about the need to find another tackle with a high pick, if only because we absolutely have to replace McIntosh and Richardson and Taylor aren’t giving us much hope that they’re going to be more than backups. Waters looks like he’ll have another year left after this one and if we could find a tackle in the next draft and two guards (one to start, one to groom to replace Waters) our offensive line is in pretty decent shape for next year. Not great shape, because it takes awhile for a line to gel, but decent shape.

Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.

by UCrawford on Oct 14, 2008 11:08 AM CDT up 0 recs

At Least We've Got The Hawks, Though :)

After the title I’m good for another five years or so :)

Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.

by UCrawford on Oct 14, 2008 10:21 AM CDT up 0 recs

Yea exactly

I had never had a team win anything before. It was like Cloud 9. That’s why Im struggling with the Chiefs but it’s not the end of the world.

Also, why is JacinB allowed to post on here when he thinks Herm went 10-6. If you want to argue my points that’s fine but any Chiefs fans who watch the games should realize that Herm has been here 2.3 years and not 3.3 years.

Herm Edwards is a retard.

by CBaller13 on Oct 14, 2008 10:29 AM CDT up 0 recs

Everyone's Entitled To An Opinion

And JacinB has some good ones too. Everybody gets their facts wrong once in awhile so let’s not be too harsh…it was a pretty minor slip.

Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.

by UCrawford on Oct 14, 2008 11:09 AM CDT up 0 recs

Thanks, man.

by JacinB on Oct 14, 2008 11:10 AM CDT up 0 recs

No Worries

Nobody’s right all the time, not even me. :) And you do make some good points.

Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.

by UCrawford on Oct 14, 2008 11:11 AM CDT up 0 recs

I

agree about drafting Charles. I thought Kolby Smith looked Damn good last season, so why not have him back-up Lj. We drafted the best players available, but they don’t fit our system that well. The problem is ,you can’t win playoff games without an explosive offense, and Herm will never implement one.

by GHOST OF DT on Oct 14, 2008 10:25 AM CDT up 0 recs

From the AP (via FoxSports):

Getting into the playoffs, where they were clobbered 23-8 in the first round by Indianapolis, caused influential people in the executive suites to make a bad misjudgment. Instead of using 2007 to begin replacing over-the-hill veterans and rebuilding with youth – as coach Herm Edwards wanted – Kansas City stood pat, thinking it was only a couple of key players away from a Super Bowl run.

From Adam Schein (FoxSports):

While Edwards has his faults, like his inability to properly manage a clock despite the presence of time-management guru Dick Curl, his players play incredibly hard for him. And his results as a coach speak for themselves.

Kansas City — the clear cut winner of the 2008 NFL draft — is in full-fledged rebuilding mode. Chiefs president Carl Peterson hand-picked Edwards. Even when the Chiefs struggle to win four games, Edwards gets a free pass as this club looks to 2009 and 2010. And Herm will be around for those years, too.

From Scout.com / Warpaint Illustrated:

Edwards needed to make trades that would bring in draft picks instead of send them away. He needed to use those draft picks on young talent, and not rely on overpaid, underproductive free agents. The entire organization needed a change in philosophy, and now, just one year into the youth movement, Edwards’ constituents are turning on him.

Right here in the inner nucleus of Chiefs Kingdom are two shining examples of what happens when a football program sticks with a head coach, letting them implement and carry out their plan. What would happen if Missouri athletic director Mike Alden had fired Gary Pinkel after he finished 5-6 in his fourth season? Chase Daniel would probably be leading the Heisman race as a Texas Longhorn, the Tigers would have never graced the cover of Sports Illustrated, and they’d probably be unranked.

What if Kansas athletic director Lew Perkins had fired Mark Mangino after he finished 4-7 in his third season? There’d be no Orange Bowl victory, there’d be no Coach of the Year honors, and the buffet industry in Lawrence wouldn’t be in a relapse.

Sure, college football and professional football aren’t the same, but the NFL coaching carousel seems to be moving at a faster and faster pace than it used to. Take Jeff Fisher for example – he didn’t put together a winning season for the Titans/Oilers during his first five seasons, but the organization stuck with him, and he led them to a Super Bowl appearance in his sixth year.

More recently, Fisher went 17-31 between 2004 and 2006, and angry Titans fans were calling for his head full of finely groomed hair. The organization stuck with him, and he went 10-6 last season and is off to a 5-0 start this year. Would Fisher have survived the early, trying years if they had started in 04’ instead of 1994? The moral of the story is perseverance pays off.

Don’t let your emotions overwhelm you. The losing hurts, but it hurts Edwards just as much, if not more than the average Chiefs fan. He has this ship in mid U-turn, and if he’s kicked out of the car now, there’s no telling what direction it’ll head.

Edwards has an eye for talent, and he’s bringing it into Kansas City by the truckload. He’s already got five rookies starting this season, and numerous others contributing. Give the man another draft and another season to prove his mettle.

by JacinB on Oct 14, 2008 10:41 AM CDT up 0 recs

Ok

So you copied and pasted some optimistic statements about the Chiefs from people who don’t really know the Chiefs.

The NFL isn’t college football. You don’t have players for 4 years and you don’t recruit.

Let me remind you that Jeff Fisher is a Super Bowl coach who’s team moved cities in the middle of his coaching career. Also, keep in mind that in his first 9 seasons of his career he won: 7, 8, 8, 8, 13, 13, 7, 11, 12 games. Those aren’t playoff teams every year but they are contending teams every year. Also include that during that span they went to the playoffs 4 times and SuperBowl once. Not a good example.

Edwards has 5 rookies starting because he wants to start young players and because there is no talent on this team. If we would have kept our best player (Jared Allen) – one of our first rounders wouldn’t be starting because he wouldn’t be here.

Herm Edwards is a retard.

by CBaller13 on Oct 14, 2008 10:52 AM CDT up 0 recs

Yeah, Warpaint Illustrated clearly knows nothing about the Chiefs.

And, as for the Fisher example, how of the Chiefs recent coaches have made the playoffs as often as Fisher has?

Not Vermiel. In his last 9 seasons in the NFL, Vermiel only made it to the playoffs twice. He only made it 6 times total in 15 years. So, he made it 40% of the time. Fisher looks like he’s going to be going 50% (if he continues this year’s pace).

Not Cunningham. He was lucky to have a .500 record.

Not Schottenheimer. He only made it to the playoffs 3 times in his last 9 years in the League. Sure, he made it there 7 out of 10 years with the Chiefs, but he hasn’t actually won a playoff game in 15 years and hasn’t ever lead a team past the AFC Championship.

But, wait. There’s also that other guy. What’s his name? Edwards? Norm Edwards? Oh, no … Herm Edwards. He’s been in the playoffs 4 times in 7 seasons, including two play-off wins.

by JacinB on Oct 14, 2008 11:09 AM CDT up 0 recs

I'm Not Sure What You're Comparing Here

Gunther was a coach for two years, so that’s hardly a good sample size. But his record as a head coach was still better than Herm’s. Schottenheimer’s not even comparable to Herm…Marty was a far superior coach. His win percentage was much better and he won division titles (which Herm has never done). Also, Herm’s never made it to an AFC Championship game. And Vermeil made it to the Super Bowl twice (and won once)…which Herm’s never come close to doing.

Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.

by UCrawford on Oct 14, 2008 11:15 AM CDT up 0 recs

Please remember

That Herm followed Parcells in the Jets organization. So those first two playoff teams were just like the first playoff team he inherited here – a former coaches team. Look at the Cowboys and Wade Phillips last year – same thing happened.

If you omit the first two Jets seasons when he was using Parcells team and the first Chiefs team where it was all of Vermeil’s players, he will have made the playoffs once in 5 years with a 10-6 team in New York. I just don’t think he’s a good coach. I think he’s a nice guy and he’s gotten by with other coaches/gm’s creations.

As for me ripping on you for the 10-6 reference, I apologize. It was a little rough and I definately appreciate a good debate.

I just don’t see eye to eye with you on Herm at all. The guy can’t motivate his players, he can’t call a good game and his clock management is terrible.

Herm Edwards is a retard.

by CBaller13 on Oct 14, 2008 11:18 AM CDT up 0 recs

If you omit Parcells teams

(which I don’t 100% agree with) you have to give Herm credit for Manginis playoff appearance as well.

by NJChiefsFan on Oct 14, 2008 11:20 AM CDT up 0 recs

Omitting Teams

I don’t agree with that either. Herm coached them so he deserves the credit or blame for their performance. Did Herm win two playoff games? Yes. Were those teams capable of advancing further than they did? Very unlikely, because those teams weren’t even good enough to win their division in five years. Herm had talented teams, to work with for the most part and I don’t think it’s a stretch to say that he underachieved with them during the regular season. And I think he’s done that here as well.

Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.

by UCrawford on Oct 14, 2008 11:29 AM CDT up 0 recs

How hard did they play against the Panthers?

by ashleylat on Oct 14, 2008 10:55 AM CDT up 0 recs

What Were The Dates On Those Postings?

Any of them written after the Raiders game?

Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.

by UCrawford on Oct 14, 2008 11:10 AM CDT up 0 recs

Yeah.

The one from Scout.com, for example, was written Oct. 10th.

by JacinB on Oct 14, 2008 11:57 AM CDT up 0 recs

HAHAHA

Herm never went 10-6. Vermeil went 10-6 in his final year and then Herm went 9-7 and because the AFC’s depth sucked that year he backdoored into the playoffs only to get EMBARRASSED by Tony Dungy and the Colts. He then came in the next year and led a team to a 4-12 record while pissing off all of his star players (Allen, LJ, Tony Gonzalez). He then realized those players were no longer on board with his plans and decided to “rebuild”. Rebuilding started this past offseason with the trading of Jared Allen.

Another thing, Cousin Carl traded our 4th round pick (Leon Washington – a GREAT return man) for Herm. Pathetic.

I do agree with you that we shouldn’t fire Herm or Carl midseason because it’s not fair to the players. But once the season ends they better be out that day. I’m not saying we act like Al Davis but we should clean house when the season is over. I just hope the trainwrekc of Peterson/Edwards doesn’t mess up our franchise anymore. Next thing you know, they are trading DBowe for a 2nd rounder.

Herm Edwards is a retard.

by CBaller13 on Oct 14, 2008 10:00 AM CDT up 0 recs

“only to get EMBARRASSED by Tony Dungy and the Colts.”

Seems to me like that was the year that everyone got embarrassed by Dungy and the Colts, wasn’t it? Kansas City. Baltimore. New England. Chicago.

by JacinB on Oct 14, 2008 10:43 AM CDT up 0 recs

Yep

by NJChiefsFan on Oct 14, 2008 10:49 AM CDT up 0 recs

That's funny:

15-6 win over the Ravens in the AFC Divisional Playoff game.
38-34 win over the Patriots in the AFC Championship.
29-17 win over the Bears in the Super Bowl.

I would call those games a little closer than The Colts outgaining the Chiefs in total yards 435 to 126 and in first downs 28 to 7.

Herm Edwards is a retard.

by CBaller13 on Oct 14, 2008 10:56 AM CDT up 0 recs

CBaller's Right

The Chiefs were definitely the weakest team in the playoffs in 2006.

Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.

by UCrawford on Oct 14, 2008 11:17 AM CDT up 0 recs

Well, not HaHa funny,

but certainly interesting funny.

All those teams were sent packing.

We were the worst team the Colts faced in the playoffs. Therefore the worst performance against them. I don’t think that’s a surprise to anyone.

by NJChiefsFan on Oct 14, 2008 11:18 AM CDT up 0 recs

I didn't haha

But if you watched that game, which I’m sure you did. There were two critical errors. One, Damon Huard should have started. There is a time to be loyal(regular season) and a time to play to win(the playoffs) and he inserted a qb (Green) when a team was playing well with Huard. It was a terrible call and to make it worse he didn’t pull Green after halftime.

As for the game itself, we had no chance. They completely dominated us in the first half. I don’t think we even had a first down. We picked off a top 5 QB 3 times and weren’t even in the game. And this was with an offense that was #1 in the league the year before.

The second error was the typical Herm error – running LJ up the gut when it wasn’t working over and over again.

I would honestly say that our performance in that game was comparable to the game against the Panthers last week. And it was the playoffs. I couldn’t believe it and I really think I lost faith in Herm after that game because of the Huard decision.

Herm Edwards is a retard.

by CBaller13 on Oct 14, 2008 11:22 AM CDT up 0 recs

What was the main weakness of the Colts going into that game ... ?

Oh, right. Their run defense. How silly of Herm to try to run the NFL’s best rusher that season against one of the NFL’s worst run defenses.

by JacinB on Oct 14, 2008 11:28 AM CDT up 0 recs

that worked well

or not

by sm7600 on Oct 14, 2008 11:28 AM CDT up 0 recs

Yea and it wasn't working

And he kept trying to run it up the gut – because he’s stubborn.

Herm Edwards is a retard.

by CBaller13 on Oct 14, 2008 11:32 AM CDT up 0 recs

The 2006 Colts Run Defense

Took a major leap with the return of Bob Sanders. By the time the playoffs came around the Colts run defense wasn’t nearly as problematic as it was at the start of the year when Sanders was out. This was a major story line at that time as well, so it’s not like Herm should have been unaware of it.

Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.

by UCrawford on Oct 14, 2008 11:37 AM CDT up 0 recs

Week 16: Ronnie Brown put up 115 yards on them on 21 attempts.
Week 15: Ron freakin’ Dayne put up 153 yards on them on 32 attempts and had 2 TDs.
Week 14: Rudi Johnson had 79 yards and a TD against them.
Week 13: Maurice Jones-Drew had 166 yards and 2 TDs on 15 carries, Fred Taylor added another 131 yards and a TD on 9 carries, and Alvin Pearlman (look him up) added another 71 yards and a TD on 13 carries.

Those were all after Bob Sanders return and the supposed ‘re-emergence’ of the Colts run defense.

by JacinB on Oct 14, 2008 11:44 AM CDT up 0 recs

I Replied To This Below

Sanders didn’t play those weeks. He played Week 1, Week 2 (when he hurt his knee), and Weeks 9 and 11 (when he tried to come back early). The Colts shut him down after that until the playoffs so he could heal up.

Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.

by UCrawford on Oct 14, 2008 12:00 PM CDT up 0 recs

Yeah ...

Held Larry Johnson (who rushed for 1,789 yards during the season) to 32 yards.

Held Jamal Lewis (who rushed for 1,132 yards during the season) to 53 yards.

Were down by 18 points to the Patriots going into half-time. Outscored the Patriots 35-13 in the second half.

Hung 29 points on a defense that’d allowed opposing offenses an average of around 16 points in the regular season and 19 points in the post-season, while holding an offense that averaged almost 27 points during the regular season and 33 points in the playoffs to just 17 points.

Yeah, the Colts really sucked that year. The Chiefs should’ve run right through them on our way to the Super Bowl.

by JacinB on Oct 14, 2008 11:24 AM CDT up 0 recs

Now You're Being Petulant

The point wasn’t that the Colts didn’t have a good run defense that year, the point was that the Chiefs weren’t even competitive in that game. All of the other teams CBaller named were competitive against the Colts.

Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.

by UCrawford on Oct 14, 2008 11:25 AM CDT up 0 recs

They didn't.

The Colts didn’t have a good run defense that year.

They were ranked 32nd in the League in rushing yards allowed and yards per rushing attempt. They were 30th in rushing TDs allowed.

On the other hand, they were 2nd in pass defense, allowing only 5 passing TDs all year against 20 INTs. It wouldn’t have mattered whether we started Huard or Green. Our best chance in that game was to run the ball.

And, somewhere between the last game of the season and the first game of the post-season, the Colts found a run defense.

by JacinB on Oct 14, 2008 11:36 AM CDT up 0 recs

Bob Sanders

They didn’t have a good run defense because Bob Sanders missed 12 games. He came back at the end of the season and the run defense improved. This was well-publicized at the time. A good coach would have realized this and gameplanned for it…Herm didn’t.

Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.

by UCrawford on Oct 14, 2008 11:40 AM CDT up 0 recs

Re-response.

Those were all after Bob Sanders return and the supposed ‘re-emergence’ of the Colts run defense.

by JacinB on Oct 14, 2008 11:46 AM CDT up 0 recs

Haha

Dude you are arguing that The Colts sucked against the run. I agree – but why weren’t we succesful against them running the ball that game? I’d lay the blame on Herm. I’d lay the blame on the players not getting up for the game. I’d again blame Herm for wearing LJ out over the season. I’m just saying that game wasn’t close and it should have been.

Herm Edwards is a retard.

by CBaller13 on Oct 14, 2008 11:51 AM CDT up 0 recs

Sanders Didn't Play In The Last Four Games

He got hurt in the second game, played in week 9, then in week 11 (at less than full strength). The Colts brought him back for the Chiefs game because that’s the first time he was healthy.

Granted, they couldn’t have predicted that he’d be as effective as he was but then they also made it a lot easier for him to be effective because they played Trent Green instead of Huard after Green had put up three straight weeks of subpar play.

Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.

by UCrawford on Oct 14, 2008 11:55 AM CDT up 0 recs

Thank you

I live in New York and the only other Chiefs fan I know is some dumb blonde who cheers because she’s drunk so I had no one to talk to at that time. But I really was upset Huard didn’t start or play. Green was terrible.

Herm Edwards is a retard.

by CBaller13 on Oct 14, 2008 11:57 AM CDT up 0 recs

That Game

I don’t think you’ll find many Chiefs fans who thought Green should have been starting over Huard for that game.

Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.

by UCrawford on Oct 14, 2008 11:58 AM CDT up 0 recs

Actually ...

That’s what I get for going by when he returned based on Wikipedia.

Based on CBSSportsline.com, he didn’t play those last four games. He played in weeks 9 and 13 (games 8 and 12).

In those weeks
Week 9: Laurence Maroney had 63 yards on 13 carries and Corey Dillon added 48 yards and 2 TDs on 13 carries. Even Kevin Faulk averaged 6 yards-per-carry.
Week 13: Travis Henry put up 93 yards on 20 attempts.

Either way, it sort of puts down your point:

He came back at the end of the season and the run defense improved. This was well-publicized at the time. A good coach would have realized this and gameplanned for it…Herm didn’t.

by JacinB on Oct 14, 2008 12:10 PM CDT up 0 recs

I Stated That Poorly

My bad. I clarified in a couple of other comments.

Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.

by UCrawford on Oct 14, 2008 12:10 PM CDT up 0 recs

Weeks 9 and 13

He was still injured both weeks so he was less than full strength. The Colts shut him down until the playoffs, but it was well-publicized that they’d be getting him back.

Of course what really screwed the Chiefs was sticking with Green over Huard…getting your run-stuffing safety back is a definite bonus when the other team’s QB isn’t effective.

Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.

by UCrawford on Oct 14, 2008 12:14 PM CDT up 0 recs

I'm just saying ...

When guys like Laurence Maroney and Kevin Faulk and Travis Henry are getting around 5 yards per carry when Bob Sanders is playing, and mediocre guys on bad teams are averaging that number or better against them for most of the season, I don’t think you can say it was a poor game plan for Herm to think that L.J. — who was the League’s best rusher that year, averaging 110+ yards per game rushing and 40+ more receiving — to be able to run right up the gut.

by JacinB on Oct 14, 2008 12:18 PM CDT up 0 recs

but we didnt execute

and that is the coach’s fault. preparation preparation preparation. plus his old boss(dungy) knew how stubborn Herm is with game plans and decisions and outcoached him.

Herm Edwards is a retard.

by CBaller13 on Oct 14, 2008 12:33 PM CDT up 0 recs