Is the Defense problem the system or Gun?

by Lanier63 on Oct 10, 2008 9:17 AM CDT

[Ed. Note: Took out the link and embedded the video. -Primetime]

Can we place the blame on cover 2 or does Gun have what it takes to coach the system? The defense seems to have not shown us the progress this year that we have made since Gun returned to the Chiefs, compared to the previous years. I know the system was brought in by Herman and Gun agreed to work with it. Don't get me wrong, I love me some Gun as well as most of you do I think. But I really believe we have better athletes than the last two years, but we are not seeing the results in the stats that should be foretelling. I would hope, as many of you have said, that maybe with the addition of a solid middle linebacker, this club can become once again one of the elite defense teams in the NFL.

I just had to add this tribute to Gun

Poll

So it begs the question, do you think it is Gun, the system or something else?

Gunther can't coach the system

9 votes

Cover 2 system itself

15 votes

Wrong players for the system

3 votes

Gunther has lost it

4 votes

The weather just hasn't been good enough for a productive day

4 votes

35 votes | Poll has closed

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of Arrowhead Pride's writers or editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of Arrowhead Pride writers or editors.

0 recs | Comment 22 comments

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missed one

What if the problem is a combination of young players making mistakes and a putrid offense that averaged less than 3.5 plays a drive last week.

by saskwatch on Oct 10, 2008 9:32 AM CDT 0 recs

+1

by NJChiefsFan on Oct 10, 2008 9:44 AM CDT up 0 recs

I feel the same way

Several big plays that the D has given up was because of the young guys being out of position or taking bad angles.

But I also have a problem with the Tampa 2 system, teams know how and where to attack the cover 2. We also don’t have the pass rush needed to run the system.

by tevans96 on Oct 10, 2008 9:47 AM CDT up 0 recs

Tampa 2 is succesful if you have the right personnel

Theres nothing wrong with the Tampa 2 scheme itself. It has its strong points and its weaknesses like every other defensive scheme. But it does require the players at several different positions to be very disciplined and take care of their responsibilities, which is something young players (like ours) are notorious for not doing very well.

Fortunately now that we have some younger CBs that can actually run, we’re playing a lot less Tampa 2.

by ChiefDJ on Oct 10, 2008 5:09 PM CDT up 0 recs

Haven't we run

a lot of man coverage in the past couple of games?

by NJChiefsFan on Oct 10, 2008 9:57 AM CDT 0 recs

yes

we’re not running the Cover 2 or the Tampa 2 most of the time…and until we get a better MLB, we won’t ever truly run the Tampa 2 because, contrary to its name, it is really a twist on the Cover 3 – the middle linebacker has to be able to get deep and cover the middle with a safety to each side. We don’t have a MLB who is fast enough to do that (yet)

by PVChiefsfan on Oct 10, 2008 10:18 AM CDT up 0 recs

Big plays

I saw several big plays given up because of zone coverage. We mix it up and try to make it look like man coverage but we still play a large amount of zone.

by tevans96 on Oct 10, 2008 10:39 AM CDT up 0 recs

Every team plays zone

Nobody plays man to man 100% of the time.

by ChiefDJ on Oct 10, 2008 5:10 PM CDT up 0 recs

I chose wrong players

I still question the athletic ability of the team as a whole. Time will tell, but I don’t think the problem is the type of coverage or Gun.

Gun is old school smash mouth in your face football coaching ala Ditka. He is what you get and whether the cameras are on or off he’s the same guy. He definitely doesn’t coddle his players and they respect him for that. He made great strides IMHO in the past and as a head coach he even has a better record in K.C. than Herm.

What I question……(knowing Herm is a Defense minded coach) is wheter he let’s Gun do his thing or interfere’s? I’m not saying that he gives him free reign, but whether Herm actually does things to make it difficult to coach the Defense. I don’t know. Gun might have all say in final decisions. But I would keep Gun. He’s a winner in my book.

The league needs more in-your-face coaches like him.

by THE_TRUTH on Oct 10, 2008 11:21 AM CDT 0 recs

Please don't anyone take from my post

that I am in anyway suggesting to get rid of Gun. I would say fire the cheerleaders after everyone else, but keep Gun.

"But what do I know, I’m like an empty room with a large ECHO"

by Lanier63 on Oct 10, 2008 12:02 PM CDT up 0 recs

Lanier that shows your age:)

Never under any circumstance fire the cheerleaders!

by Eric Allen on Oct 10, 2008 3:53 PM CDT 0 recs

KC Cheerleaders

Were never too hot anyway.

They’re not professionals. They volunteer for the duty. Like resume padding.

But they are cute and athletic and who wants more than that?

by AngryJesus on Oct 10, 2008 4:30 PM CDT up 0 recs

More entertaining

Than what is on the field this year, that is for sure.

by Eric Allen on Oct 10, 2008 4:40 PM CDT up 0 recs

Now come on guys

old eyes can still see true beauty!

"But what do I know, I’m like an empty room with a large ECHO"

by Lanier63 on Oct 10, 2008 7:33 PM CDT up 0 recs

Don't quote me, I'm not positive....

I think that they get paid, but its not much. I think its the same for all of the NFL cheerleaders most of them are either in school or have real jobs of some kind. I can’t remember where I heard that or saw that somewhere. But if you go check out other teams cheerleaders their bio’s are much like our cheerleaders bio’s. Usually says something like Jenny is a substitute teacher or Sally is going to b.s. jr. college or Debbie is an oral hygenist. LOL!

KC Tat Guy

by KC Tat Guy on Oct 12, 2008 2:24 PM CDT up 0 recs

Play of the D

I think (except for the freakish game in Carolina) that the D is actually getting it together and getting better, slowly but surely. They have made some major rookie mistakes and have had their share of trouble. When you combine that with the O not scoring and not being on the field more than the average 4 -8 plays per drive, then you have a much greater probability of the opposing offense running or passing at will and able to play their game plan. If we were ahead, the opposing O would play the game differently, and it all snowballs downhill.

Gun still has what it takes. I think there are just schemes and plans he is trying to run to support the players he has. I also think that as the player confidence grows, so will the threat from D.

by TXChiefan on Oct 10, 2008 6:02 PM CDT 0 recs

+1

Its tough to do anything when you are down 20+ in the first half

by KC FAN IN CA on Oct 10, 2008 6:12 PM CDT up 0 recs

Offense must sustained long drives...

Football game is about maintaining the territory and time of position…when the offense reduce the 3 and Outs, the defense will prevail…

by ali_djoo on Oct 10, 2008 7:41 PM CDT 0 recs

Hate To Say It But

I think the problems with a defense are a combination of players, scheme and Gunther. I think it’s just a bad combination and something in it needs to change, maybe all of it.

I know Gunther’s a good defensive coordinator and maybe he just needs to be left alone to run the defense his way, but even before Herm got here Gunther wasn’t turning out great defenses (granted, the personnnel were lacking, but still) and he’s not exactly the most reliable meter by which to measure good players for us to pick up (apparently he really liked Kendrell Bell).

I like Gunther a lot, and I’m generally inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt, but when we get a new head coach if he decides to go in a different direction with the defense and bring in a different coordinator than Gunther I probably won’t complain about it much, if at all. He just hasn’t really much to make the case that he should be kept at all costs.

Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.

by UCrawford on Oct 10, 2008 8:00 PM CDT 0 recs

All I can say

in a small defense is, when Vermeil agreed to bring him back, the first year they didn’t draft nor sign anyone. Vermeil, I guess, thought Gun alone would improve the stats.

If we get a new coach, we will just have to live with whom he may keep and whom he may bring in. As I stated the other day, I think the whole kit and kaboodle needs to be reemed and cleaned out. (just like Congress)

"But what do I know, I’m like an empty room with a large ECHO"

by Lanier63 on Oct 10, 2008 8:08 PM CDT up 0 recs

It's A Valid Small Defense

Like I said, I’m not itching to see the guy go (same with Gailey pretty much too) and I’ll be happy enough if he comes back. But if we get a new coach and he decides that Gun’s not his guy, I’ll probably give the coach the benefit of the doubt on it too.

Supporting the lesser of two evils is still supporting something evil.

by UCrawford on Oct 10, 2008 8:16 PM CDT up 0 recs

defense

Really now IMO we are short a RDE and MLB. No coordinator or defense, no matter what you call it is going to be effective, especially when your offense only spends 15-20 minutes out of sixty on the field. Fatigue, inexperience and a lack of talent at a couple of key positions sets you up for failure IMHO!

by dklogue1 on Oct 11, 2008 2:47 AM CDT 0 recs