Morning Update (Bruins Edition)

by Chris Thorman on Dec 14, 2007 7:23 AM CST in KC Chiefs News

The Broncos lost to the Texans last night, 31 to 13.
There's a lot of info in this question exchange between Phil and Jon Yoon of MVN and their Titans writer.
WPI examines the possibility of Carl Peterson leaving after this season and the tensions within that debate.
Michael Vick wrote a letter to the judge before he sentenced him. That's cute.
Terrell Owens, never far from a tantrum.
This mock draft has the Chiefs taking a defensive tackle and his name isn't Glenn Dorsey.
Check out this interesting round table asking if the Patriots really are that good or if the NFL is that bad this year.
Have you heard the Herm Edwards to UCLA rumor yet?

Real life intrudes this morning AP readers. I'll be indisposed until early afternoon, when I hope to have this week's Know Thy Enemy post up.

Keep up the conversation while I'm gone on this cold, cold morning in Kansas City.

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by Eric @ Arrowhead Pride on Dec 14, 2007 8:43 AM CST reply actions

Herm to UCLA?

Seems pretty far-fetched to me. Still, I want Herm another year, if not for just drafting players. One more year should be the official AP motto from here on out...

by Joel Thorman on Dec 14, 2007 8:44 AM CST reply actions

It will be interesting to see how this turns out

From MAWK:

I hereby grant Herm Edwards three games of stay from criticism regarding last week's game.

Can he stop himself from criticizing until the New Year?

This might be more interesting than the rest of the Chiefs season.

by Joel Thorman on Dec 14, 2007 8:52 AM CST reply actions

No

He'll succumb to more of that passive-aggressive hating and blaming that he passes of as witty sarcasm. It's inevitable.

by Halfbreed5050 on Dec 14, 2007 9:16 AM CST up reply actions

Can you blame him

This team doesn't exactly give one much to be positive about. Except Colquitt.

Sayonara Herm, Konnichi wa Marty.

by Bill Grigsbys Cirrhosis on Dec 14, 2007 9:20 AM CST up reply actions

When a child gets a flu shot he will predictably become fearful of, then very angry at the doctor who inflicted this seemingly unendurable pain upon him. He'll scream, he'll cry, he'll pout. He may even show light symptoms of the virus the shot is intended to prevent. In the long run however, in "The Plan" if you will, good things will happen as a result of this momentary discomfort. No I won't blame squawk, I understand what he and others are going through. But, in the words of a very wise man, I think we can all "get over it."

by Halfbreed5050 on Dec 14, 2007 9:37 AM CST up reply actions

You call

this person who tells us all to get over it a wise man? How about this so called wise man learn some team management skills,timeouts,clock management,when to challenge,and not to call atime out then challenge and lose two timeouts at one time! Herm is a joke and all these valuable draft picks we all talk about we wasted one on him!

by Eric @ Arrowhead Pride on Dec 14, 2007 9:47 AM CST up reply actions

Sorry

Thought this was a Chiefs fan site. My mistake. I've seen more team spirit watching a pack of coyotes ripping a jackrabbit apart.

by Halfbreed5050 on Dec 14, 2007 10:06 AM CST up reply actions

I am

a Chiefs fan, I am not a fan of Hermie never have been since they hired him. I do not want to see my team that I wait to see every week get flushed down the toilet, and being told to get over it while it happens!

by Eric @ Arrowhead Pride on Dec 14, 2007 10:09 AM CST up reply actions

That argument is BS

Now first I want to say, I try to not attack the person but the idea (I think that's standard protocol for sites like this) but that argument is crap. You're using the same, chicken shit argument that we commonly hear in politics: if you don't think the US should be involved in Iraq then you must hate America.

Way to pander to the lowest common denominator, by questioning ones loyalty to their team. I am a Chiefs fan, in fact in Carl's eyes I'm a "real Kansas City Chiefs fan." As a paying customer I am going to speak up when I'm not happy with the product I'm paying for. I'm not going to just sit back and take whatever crap I'm shoveled, nor should anyone.

Herm's a joke. Sure we can tough him out for a few more seasons and we may make the playoffs a few times. But it will the same story he had in Jersey. Make the playoffs but be constantly overshadowed by another team in the division. Everyone wants to talk about how many times Herm made the playoffs but no one mentions what the Patriots were doing at the same time. Is the goal to be the second best team in the division?

Teams have shown over and over again that you can make significant strides in one off season. Saints last year, Tennessee or Cleveland this year. Well in one off season this team has gone from average to laughing stock of the NFL (save Miami). Does anyone really feel that Herm is going to reverse this trend?

by Bill Grigsbys Cirrhosis on Dec 14, 2007 10:31 AM CST up reply actions

Usually

when a team makes significant strides in the offseason it is because they have been freakin' horrible for at least half a decade and finally have all the parts they needed to actually work (this year's Lions, Browns, and Cardinals to some extent)...I think that what is happening with TEN is not the norm. Take Detroit or Arizona for example. If each year for 4 or 5 years you draft the best or second best WR's (and a lineman here or there if needed) shouldn't you eventually have a good passing game? Same thing with Cleveland...keep drafting 1st round offensive skill players and whenever you finally get a decent QB, you should have a pretty good offense.

by PVChiefsfan on Dec 14, 2007 11:18 AM CST up reply actions

I've just been

assasinated and called a name by a "Chiefs fan" called "Halfbreed 5050".

My life is complete.

I'm done with trying to make points about Herm through sarcasm and wit. I've been beaten into the ground about it. The consensus is that if you criticize Herm, you're an impatient fan that can't see beyond the immediate game, has no idea what rebuilding is, and doesn't see the plan that Herm's building which will eventually end in seven Super Bowls and the greatest team since the 2007 Patriots. And since I'm tired of pointing to a sub .500 coaching record, some horrible examples of coaching mismanagement, the worst roster of the Chiefs in probably two decades, and then having people ask me for proof, I'm done. I'm giving him the year.

This season has made it hard for me to be a Chiefs fan. Not because of the losses. That's part of the fun of being a fan. Living and dying as the team goes. The overall direction, and the "Everything's fine!" work of the administration, coaching staff, and the loudest here on the board. Some of them make good points. Others just run their mouths, act like the only opinion worth having is trusting Herm to lead us to the promised land like he did with the Jets...wait. But nothing can stop me from loving this fanbase, this franchise, the team, its fans, and my identity as a Chiefs fan.

So Herm Edwards gets a year of silent support from me in order to turn the ship around...wait, that implies it's going somewhere bad. I mean, continue the ship on its glorious road to greatness.

Halfbreed, have you considered the Raiders? You really fit in a lot better with that crowd. Maybe you should think about sliding into some Silver and Black. I think they would find your refreshing combination of short-minded criticism, name calling, and asinine analysis to be just what they need.

You Play! To Punt! The Ball!

by Ridiculous Matt on Dec 14, 2007 9:58 AM CST up reply actions

There there

It's good medicine, just give it time to work.

p.s. raider hater since 69

by Halfbreed5050 on Dec 14, 2007 10:13 AM CST up reply actions

They

told Socrates the same thing.

Not criticising Herm Edwards for anything since December '07.

by Ridiculous Matt on Dec 14, 2007 10:16 AM CST up reply actions

LOL

I get it, hemlock, hermlock, Yeah, just like Socrates, mmm hmmm.

by Halfbreed5050 on Dec 14, 2007 12:24 PM CST up reply actions

Mawk, your passion for the Cheifs is awesome

and that's what being a fan is, in my opinion: really, truly caring about and wishing success for your team at all times. With that comes un-conditional hopefulness (thinking that somehow, SOMEHOW, however minute the possibility, we could win the next game), and also the right to critique and criticize.

Please allow me to point out a couple things and don't take them as some sort of personal attack. I'll try to word things carefully.

Despite saying you will no longer use sarcasm and wit (which is just one example of how you crack me up...so humble...), you continue to do so. An example would be "seven super bowls" and "glorious road to greatness". While I, personally, find sarcasm to be pretty funny, when used against someone or someone's opinion it understandably is often taken personally and is inflammatory.
I think you make some very good points, to which there are some very good rebuttals. For every time you mention Herm's record, someone can give pretty good reasons why it is that way. That's just one example of many good reasons you have come up with to critique and show examples, and there are many good rebuttals. But descriptions like "running their mouths", "short-sighted" and "asinine" are all inflammatory/insultary. If you want to have objective, insult-free arguments, which is the best way to actually discuss a point, you have to follow the rules as well, and not pay them lip-service but then still slip in exaggerations, sarcasm, etc.
I only offer this completely unsolicited critique because I love your passion, as I have mentioned, and think that the factual basis of what you argue is valid. But as I have told the juniors and seniors in high school that I taught (not saying you're a high-schooler, just saying i've had to make this point before), the validity of a statement is immediately ignored, or pushed to the side, when it is delivered in an inflammatory way, because the focus turns to the insult/sarcasm/whatever instead of the valid point.

I personally think Herm deserves more time, given arguments that have already been made exhaustively, and by no means without sarcasm and insults coming from those people. I think he shows potential that deserves another year or two. I agree this team's performance has gone to shit, but I think the irrefutable point to excuse that is the piss-poor records that all powerhouses of the 2000's have had for one or two seasons in the midst of building or re-building greatness. I am NOT saying I know for sure that we're going to even come close to greatness, all I'm saying is that teams that HAVE won a super bowl or come very close have had very bad season in the recent past. I might just be one of those believing in a plan that ultimately will not succeed; but I think it deserves another year, maybe more depending on how next year goes.

Whatever ends up happening, one of us will be proven wrong and one of us will be "right". Personally, I don't give a shit whether I'm "right" or not, and I would bet a ton of money you don't care to be "right" either. You just want the Chiefs to win. Me too. I don't question your fandom, or you as a person, so I hope you don't think i'm trying to go after you personally. But I do hope you at least consider what I have pointed out about your style, or "method", of making your points. There are plenty of other people on this site who could use a critique, the only reason I sent this one out to you is that you have cracked me up more than anyone else (with, in all humility, your wit and sarcasm), but also made me wince more than anyone else, as I've seen the passion and good arguments receive less credit than they're due because of the attention that gets paid to sarcasm/insults/etc. going on between you and whoever is opposing your point.

Take this post for what its worth: one guy writing stuff on the internet to another guy writing stuff on the internet.

For all eternity: Go Chiefs!

by thehulk on Dec 14, 2007 1:06 PM CST up reply actions

Now see

we CAN all just get along...good post. Let's keep up the good work everybody. Go Chiefs!

by PVChiefsfan on Dec 14, 2007 3:10 PM CST up reply actions

yea

dunno how sarcastic you were being there, I don't mean to be a wuss about it, I just feel like the arguments on this site have excellent bases, and the variety of information brought in is awesome, and we do the actual topic (the chiefs) a disservice by spending any time insulting each other. I, for one, love to read about the chiefs and whatever topics we get onto, but i hate to read one person's insult towards another sent via cyberspace. its just kind of lame, in my opinion.

there's plenty of blame to go around to all sorts of people on the site, i just wanted to post to MAWK cuz he is my favorite person that i tend to disagree with, and his arguments against how i feel tend to be the best, and would be even better w/out some of the distractions in them.

again, for what its worth.

by thehulk on Dec 14, 2007 3:23 PM CST up reply actions

No one should criticize MAWKs fanhood

This season has been rough on everyone. I think most of the people who are real fairweather fans bought Patriots sweaters and have forgotten all about the Chiefs by now.

Criticizing Herm is not wrong. He's the head coach of a team that's 4-9. Part of that is his fault.

Beating him in the ground for things he can't change until the end of the season or unreasonably bashing him for his past record which is taken out of context and misrepresented will warrant replies.

The fact is, every coach that doesn't take his team to, and win, the Super Bowl is going to be criticized. Look at Marty Shottenheimer, one of the most winning coaches in NFL history. But his record of not being able to win in the playoffs got him fired from a 14-2 team.

Criticizing Herm is not wrong. He's the head coach of a team that's 4-9. Part of that is his fault.

I've always enjoyed our debates MAWK, as long as we were talking to each other and not getting slammed in other posts. It led me to do alot of research and discover things I didn't know before.

by DJ @ Arrowhead Pride on Dec 14, 2007 7:07 PM CST up reply actions

Doh

Sorry for repeating myself in the above post. Rearragned some paragraphs and forgot to delete them.

by DJ @ Arrowhead Pride on Dec 14, 2007 7:08 PM CST up reply actions

Herm to UCLA?

Please let it be. This would help all my team immensely. The Chiefs, Cats, Ducks and Bears would all be better off.

by Bill Grigsbys Cirrhosis on Dec 14, 2007 9:04 AM CST reply actions

NFL Mocks

Guys -

Thanks for the link Chris and everyone else stopping by. The mock will updated a ton so please keep coming back. I know I have the Chiefs taking a DT right now, but I think that will change once the season is over and the draft positions play out. Thanks again

Zach

by Zach on Dec 14, 2007 2:37 PM CST reply actions